Is infertility a disease and if so, what else is?

Infertility is a condition, not a disease.

Infertility can be caused by some diseases.

Also, infertility is be a relative term, referring to any of a number of condition that can tend to make it unlikely or impossible that a man or woman will be able to participate in conception.

Loneliness.

poverty

I’m not quite understanding what your question is.

Infertility can be caused by many things, including disease. It is not a disease in and of itself.

There are thousands of diseases.

Are you interested in hearing about thousands of random diseases, or just the ones that could potentially cause infertility?

It depends on whose definition you want to go by. The World Health Organization (WHO) defines it as a disease. They are a fairly official health organization. I don’t know if our AMA does, or what our insurance companies in America call it.

I think if alcoholism can be called a disease certainly infertility can.

Some diseases can cause infertility, but infertility is not a disease.

http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/infertility/definitions/en/

Some call GERD a disease but it, too, is a disorder.

@flo I think infertility would best be described as a condition.

I agree, of course it’s not a disease. I really meant the if part. I mean giving birth or parenthood is not a necessity of life. A psychotherapist is saying “I have the disease of infertility” I’m ^^^^^‘d plus plus plus that WHO is calling it disease.

What psychotherapist?

Well, “healthy” GYN systems are fertile. True it sometimes is the actual embryo that has something wrong, but most often there is something not functioning correctly if a woman doesn’t get pregnant within a year, and the man has everything in working order. A year is a really long time actually.

Between à woman born without an arm, and one without the ability to get pregnant who has a disease?

@JLeslie You’re right about the quotation marks on the word healthy, since it’s not about health.
I can see it if it’s considered a disease in countries where women’s role is to be barefoot and pregnant, but WHO? I guess no organization is perfect like no person is perfect.

One is a birth defect, not a disease. If a woman is born without the ability to get pregnant, that too is a birth defect, not a disease.

Disease usually cause on going, changing problems. Diseases spread. A cold is a disease. The flu is a disease. Small pox is a disease. They can be passed on to others. We get vaccinated for diseases.
@flo, do you really not understand what a disease is?

Merriam-Webster: “disease: a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms.”

I’d say infertility in a woman of typically fertile age could be considered a disease by that definition but there’s probably some disagreement, and maybe a medical journal would give a different definition. Just because you can cite an example of something that’s worse doesn’t mean that infertility isn’t a disease.

Something doesn’t have to be contagious to be a disease, Dutch. My Crohn’s is a disease but it’s not catching. Autoimmune diseases in general are not catching but they are diseases. Cancer is a disease.

I know it doesn’t have to be contagious. Cancer isn’t contagious. Lots of diseases aren’t. I was just trying to simplify the difference between an inherited condition, and an acquired one after birth.

If a boy at puberty gets the mumps, and it “goes down” on him he can become infertile even though he was born with normally functioning parts and pieces. Mumps is a disease. The resulting infertility is not. It’s a RESULT of the disease.

Neither are diseases. Having no arm is a defect on practical level, whether anyone wants to call it a disease or not. But not being able to get pregnant? I guess on a theorotical level.

Oh, you meant inheritance. Sorry when you said they could be passed onto others I jumped to contagious. My mistake.

Many diseases are contagious. Many are not. But being born with a birth defect is not contagious and is not a disease.

… I meant neither is a disease.

So we all agree infertility is not a disease.
@Kardamom I hope you’ll see what I meant by my question.

@Mariah “Diseases spread. A cold is a disease. The flu is a disease. Small pox is a disease. They can be passed on to others.” Flu , cold and samllpox are about contagiousness not about genetics. Mothers don’t pass on flu and cold and small pox to their fetus? So, why the “My Mstake” to @Dutchess_III?

@flo It is about health. Infertility can be caused by many factors.

She doesn’t ovulate, that’s a health issue, often caused by PCOS.

Her uteris isn’t holding onto the embryo. That’s a health issue.

Her body rejects the embryo as a foreign object. That’s a health issue.

Her tubes are scarred and the sperm can’t get through. That’s a health issue.

She has fibroids interfering with implantation. That’s a health issue.

She has clotting problems and needs to be treated with heparin or at least asoririn during pregnancy. That’s a health issue.

@Dutchess_III Why do you feel if someone is born with a health issue it isn’t a disease? So, you don’t think Tay Sachs is a disease? Thalassemia? Sickle Cell?

How did you manage to so totally misunderstand my posts so that you read a genetic problem is the same as small pox?

Don’t confuse her @JLeslie. You and I both know that sickle cell is an inherited disease that continues to create on going and increasing problems. It’s not the same as being infertile, or being born with one arm due to thalidomide.

@Dutchess_III What did I miss/misunderstand? I’m pretty sure I disagree with you, but if I missed something I might be wrong.

I was saying genetic problems can also be diseases. Not all genetic problems are diseases, but some are. Infertility can be considered a disease, I don’t see why not. It fits the definition @Mariah supplied.

It doesn’t really matter to me if it is classified as a disease or not, but I do think it can easily fit the definition.

I said “You and I both know that sickle cell is an inherited disease…” And now you’re disagreeing with me.
Stop.

Yes, sickle cell is inherited. I agree with that. I don’t get it.

But, we can stop if you want.

I just have to correct: _“Mothers don’t pass on flu and cold and small pox to their fetus?”
I meant _ “Mothers don’t pass on flu and cold and small pox to their fetus” No question mark.

Only the men and women who want/or feel the need to reproduce find it a health issue. Some men and women don’t care one way or another they just adopt if they want to parent. health . In fact a lot of women and men go out of their way to have their tubes tied and get vesectomy, they wouldn’t see it as a disease

@JLeslie it is not a necessity to get pregnant, so how can it be a health issue?

If you choose not to have a baby, but also are infertile, you still have the health issue. Your stuff still doesn’t function normally, because “normal” and healthy is being fertile.

If you choose not to have babies and you are fertile, then that is just a choice, and your GYN parts of functioning normally.

And sickle cell is a disease. What don’t you get?

@JLeslie “normal” and healthy is being fertile.”
I don’t think so. Not if you live in the most overpopulated part of the world for example. And not if you are the parent/s of many many chidren and contraception is not allowed.

Think whatever you want. WHO doesn’t agree with you. Probably, most doctors don’t agree with you. It’s about the health and functioning of the sexual organs.

@JLeslie The reproductive organs.
We can just debate it the way were if you want. By the way would the doctors whose wives are infertile think that their wives are less than, or defective just because of the infertility? If so they would be out to lunch. And WHO is not a god obviously.

She didn’t say any thing about being “defective” flo!

The point still stands even without the word defective”

Is that what this is all about? You don’t want it called a disease because the idea of disease offends you? Makes you think someone is less than? Yikes. Disease isn’t an insult, it just is.

Just because having children is not a necessity doesn’t mean not being able to have children isn’t a disease. Plenty of diseases affect you in ways that don’t preclude you from survival. I don’t need two kidneys, but if one of them is sick that can still be a disease. I don’t need to have sex but if something is wrong with my body that makes it hard or impossible to have sex that can still be a disease.

WTF? Less than? If the doctors are assholes they think that about their wives. Sure, men throughout time have thought women who can’t bare children should be thrown aside. In modern time I think we are better than that. Plus, almost half the time it’s the man who has the issue. But, you seem to be saying it’s any “disease” that makes a person less than. That is a shocking viewpoint to me.

I agree with what @Mariah just wrote. A disease isn’t an insult. Most people in their lifetime become stricken with something, it doesn’t make the person less than. If you think that, then you are back in the dark ages. It reminds me of why Komen started her organization. Her sister had breast cancer and didn’t have the support women gave today, because back then breast cancer was almost shameful. You couldn’t say breast in mixed company. Komen made it ok to talk about the condition. Komen made us see how common that cancer is.

….And women with below 38C bra size must have a disease , if infertility is a disease.

And men who are shorter than 5’ 10” have a disease, if the majority around them are over 5’11.

And if you live in a mostly blond and blue eyed part of the world, where that’s “normal” and you’re not blond and blue eyed, you must have a disease then.

…I wonder if being depressed on cloudy days, or summery days are diseases?

Season Affective Disorder listed as a disorder, not a disease. It physically affects you.

What does bra size have to do with fertility? Look, sexual organs are there to make babies. When something isn’t working right, that’s a dysfunction, disorder, syndrome, or disease. If your kidneys don’t work right from disease and you can’t pee out the poison in your body, there is a malfunction. If you can’t bring a baby to term there is something wrong. Like I said, it sometimes is something with the embryo or environment, and it can be the man that has the problem, but if it’s the woman’s “fault” then it is called a disease. Fault is used not to blame the woman, there is no blame or judgement.

Small boobs have nothing to do with anything, unless they are small from hormonal difficulties that are related to infertility if that’s what you mean?

There is no shame in using the word disease, but if you don’t like it don’t use, I don’t care. Just don’t compare fertility to things that are not equivalent at all.

Thank you!

@JLeslie
You lost the debate when you brought up WHO and most doctors

You’re not at this thread by the way,
https://www.fluther.com/201752/have-you-ever-seen-infertility-as-one-in-the-list-to/ The last post should belong in this thread and addressed to you and @Mariah

This thread is about infertility not about the complications in the middle of a pregnancy.
And by the way, isn’t it “the reproductive organs”?

Okay, so “If your kidneys don’t work right from disease and you can’t pee out the poison in your body, there is a malfunction.” Everyone needs to reproduce just like everyone needs their kidneys to function properly?

If a person is born with small breasts or infertility, neither require attention by health care professionals, the opposite of kidney disease.

That’s debatable.

PCOS is often treated with either BC pills or diabetic drugs. To become pregnant sometimes the diabetic drugs are sufficient to cause ovulation. If not, then the person goes through IVF or AI with drug assist.

Endometriosis sometimes causes a lot of pain for some women and it is treated with BC pills, or pain medication, or surgery.

Fibroids sometimes are left untreated sometimes not.

Some women may not “treat” what’s wrong, like they may just let their bodies no ovulate, and then only deal with the problem if painful ovarian cysts form. There are people with Liver disease who continue to drink, people with multiple sclerosis who refuse medication, people with cancer who choose to refuse treatment, people with rheumatoid arthritis who don’t have severe symptoms and don’t treat it. The list goes on and on.

Where did complications in the middle of pregnancy come in?

^^ I think because I said if someone can’t carry to term.

oic

Crikey, we’re not saying that being “not average” necessarily means someone has a disease. But the point of reproductive organs is to reproduce. If they’re not able to do that something is wrong with them, and that something may be a disease. “Disease” is not an insult so unless you think it is, I don’t understand why you’re protesting so vigorously.

Yep. A disease might cause them to not function properly. But infertility itself is not a disease.

Well, again: “disease: a condition of the…body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning…” By that definition it is a disease. Normal functioning of the female reproductive system during fertile age is to be fertile.

I’m curious what your reasoning is for being so adamant that it’s not a disease Dutch? Do you have a source or something?

I don’t mind if it’s called a disease. I just don’t think it is. It’s more of a dysfunction or disorder. Crohn’s is a disease. Cancer is too. Just because something doesn’t work, though, doesn’t mean it’s diseased. I guess it just depends on how wide you want to through the net.

If you have a disease that means something is wrong with you and it needs to be cured/treated. No one can argue with that.

But how about “Anyone who fails to see that infertility is a disease, or even worse, feels lucky plus plus that she/he can’t reproduce, has a disease of the brain, can’t think straight.“_ Is that a correct statement or an incorrect plus plus statement?

It’s nonsense.

@JLeslie you’re just addressing pregnancy but my OP is about infertility,which includes men.

If you want to include men, my answer stays the same. Men are supposed to be fertile from puberty until their 50’s. Fertility starts to go down as they age. If they don’t have enough sperm that can get to an egg they have a problem. It can be from disease, from a birth defect, from hormonal troubles, it’s very similar.

If you don’t want to call
It disease that’s fine. I’m still going to say that it can be classified as a disease.

You don’t have to treat every disease. My husband has thalassemia. We don’t treat it. It’s a blood disease. People with his type usually have a normal life. Fetuses with other forms don’t make it.

@JLeslie By the way nothing about my previous to last post?

What? The plus plus quote? Who said that? I haven’t said anything like that. I said if you don’t want to classify it as a disease don’t. I don’t really care. I’m just trying to explain why it can be seen as a disease, and is by WHO and other organizations, and fits the definition of disease. For whatever reason it seems to upset you to think of it that way, I’m not sure why. Not all diseases need to be treated. People live with diseases all the time without treating them.

@JLeslie So, you tell friends of yours that they should think of themselves as diseased when they tell you they are not?

@flo No. I don’t tell people they are diseased. I don’t understand your question. If someone asks me if infertility is a disease I would say what I’ve said here. If someone doesn’t ask I wouldn’t bother to say anything.

If a person tells me they have fertility problems I often tell them my story too.

I really don’t understand what you are bothered by.

What is bothering you about it? Why are you so upset by calling infertility a disease? Why does it matter so much to you?

Does anyoine in their right mind want to be stricken with cancer or….(fill the blank)?

….On the other there is nothing wrong with men and women who wish they were infertile.

@flo You know what, women who want children and are infertile are “stricken.” Even if they never wanted children they know something isn’t working right. It feels like a loss to a lot of women.

I just wrote a long answer to a friend of mine thinking about giving her daughters the HPV vaccine. One section I wrote: …Farrah Faucet died from HPV related anal cancer. It’s almost never mentioned. Colleen Zank Pinter, the soap opera actress, had HPV related oral cancer, and had to have part of her tongue cut out. Brave of her to come forward. Remember when Michael Douglas mentioned oral cancer can be HPV related and everyone freaked out, and then he back peddled? People asking if his wife was ok? This was an outrage to me. Women die because we can’t talk about diseases that are sexually related in America without judgment or shame…

…It’s like breast cancer 30 years ago, but worse. Susan Komen started her foundation because her sister died from breast cancer in practical silence. You couldn’t say “breast” in mixed company. Women were even reluctant to talk about breast cancer to each other. Our modest society was cruel to women in more ways than one, even when sick by no fault of their own

You’re sounding like “those” people who judge people based on being ill, and you feel that way so strongly that you would feel shame yourself, or wonder what you did wrong to be infertile.

Most people deal with some sort of illness in their life. Or, some sort of problem with their body or mind. I say, the best is to feel like we all have challenges, and we are all just one of the many.

@JLeslie You filled in the blank in my last post by listing HPV, HPV related cancers, sexual activity related cancers, and breast cancer. It has Nothing to do with the infertile people who are happy to not have to bother with birth control, unplanned chidren if they are against abortion.

Are infertile men and women not talking to people about their infertility and therefore
getting sick and dying from infertility?

..Edited to add (last post)

“Disease” does not equal suffering and death every time. It’s still a disease.

@JLeslie
1)You use quotation marks for the words healthy and stricken
2)and in one of your posts ”..., but if it’s the woman’s “fault” then it is called a disease.” Bingo.
You don’t believe your own argument.

Wait what? Show me my full quote. That doesn’t sound like something I wrote. Not in context. I remember writing something sarcastic about how the public looks at disease associated with sex as her fault. I don’t think that. I was talking about our judgmental society that let’s women die, because they shane women so we can’t talk about STD’s that can kill us, and only recently we can say breast in mixed company. Previously, women died in silence from breast cancer.

Fault in fucking quotes, because it’s not her fault! The same way The 700 Club said its gay peoples “fault” they caught AIDS.

You said it, but I read the context. If it is a male’s fault then it is not a disease. It’s just a “problem.” If it’s the woman’s “fault” then it’s a disease. Which I read you to mean that is BS. I got you @JLeslie.

Is there anyone who feels like It’s no good if infertile people feel like they won a lottory, or if they don’t care one way or another?

…regardless of whoever calls it a disease, a disorder, defect, a condition, etc.?

It depends on the individual. If some one is relieved that they’re infertile then that’s their business and none of yours.