Did Otto Warmbier deserve to be murdered because he is a white man and a frat boy?
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josie (
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June 20th, 2017
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No one deserves to be murdered because they made a stupid mistake. It wasn’t even a stupid mistake like texting while driving. It was stealing a poster. And he gave his life for it.
He didn’t even deserve the official sentence of 15 years hard labour which is ludicrously harsh. But that’s North Korea, it isn’t Kansas. Doing stupid things can have catastrophic consequences.
That link had some ad I couldn’t get rid of so I didn’t read the article.
Did he “deserve” to be murdered. I’d say no. Does it have anything to do with him being a white boy? I’d say zero chance.
He is a fucking idiot for committing a crime in an Asian country, let alone North Korea.
He must have been warned. Most people already know to be terrified of Asian prisons even if they aren’t warned right before going to a country.
I do feel terrible for him and his family. I can’t imagine being them. But, everyone going on about him not deserving that type of punishment I don’t understand. It’s NK. It’s not surprising. They do the same to their own people not just Americans. Even friendly countries like Singapore foreigners are warned to know the laws, and don’t break them. In China no one would be surprised prison is horrible. In the Middle East, except Israel, who would be surprised prison might be brutal. In Saudi they used to cut off your hand if you stole something, that might have changed in the last 30 years.
I mean really, I would never risk stealing in a foreign country. Not even civil ones in Western Europe that think our American jails are awful.
I thought Lisa Ling’s sister was an idiot too. I can only guess she purposely went across the border thinking it would be cool. I don’t know it for a fact, but that’s what I think. It’s a ridiculous risk to take.
Lisa Ling’s sister did NOT know she crossed the border. Nice of you to call people idiots that made mistakes that made them lose their lives. Your judgmental mentality shows no compassion. Not surprising.
@chyna Not surprising? I’m sure I should be offended.
Didn’t he steal a poster? Would you risk that? In NK?
Why was Lisa Ling’s sister even within a mile of the border? I was in Germany with my dad before the wall came down, and we could have crossed over to East Germany, but he decided to not take the risk, especially since I was with him. He was curious, but not curious enough to risk it. I just come from a family of risk aversion I guess.
A friend of ours had a coworker who was existed to Singapore his teenage kids were warned about the laws. One of his kids was caught doing drugs. They got really lucky Singapore said they have 24 hours to get the kid out of the country. They sent him on the next plane out to the states.
I have compassion for him and his family. He doesn’t deserve to die. He doesn’t deserve to be imprisoned in my opinion. Maybe a day in a jail while awaiting judgement to get out of the country. That’s what I would want and hope. But, it’s NK!!!! I would be terrified to take a misstep, and he should have been too.
His race and frat membership are totally irrelevant.
As @JLeslie said, he was a stupid kid who did something dumb and got caught. Whatever gave him the idea that screwing around in a communist dictatorship known for its cruelty was a good idea?
The parents can gripe all they want, but their son used incredibly poor judgment. Utter stupidity. This is on him, the college boy.
Everything else – coma, injuries, even death, result from that incredibly asinine decision on his part.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to recognize that he made stupid decisions that led to what happened. It’s not about “victim blaming”, it’s about preventing this kind of thing from happening again. Doesn’t mean he deserved what happened or that the fault isn’t entirely with the evil regime that is Kim-Jong Un’s North Korea. But hopefully people won’t do things like this again and know what they’re potentially getting into if they go there.
It seems like the “frat boy” comments happened when this first happened, so the “murder” wasn’t in their minds. People saw on the news an American kid not respecting the rules of other nations and getting punished for it—while on one hand North Korea is a horrible shithole that no one sympathizes with (at least as far as the government goes), on the other people travel to other countries sometimes thinking they can do whatever they want and get away with it because of who they are (whatever that may mean).
@chyna I did some googling and you might be interested to read under “sentencing and imprisonment” on this Wikipedia link.. I’m not the only one to think Ling took a stupid risk. Some people think it’s too harsh. Plenty of people in both sides of the matter.
I’m not going to judge him. Somebody already did that.
Of course no one deserves to die just “because he is a white man and a frat boy”.
I’m starting to question if we have the best healthcare in the world. He was in the coma for over a year in North Korea and then he comes here here and BAM. Dead a few days later.
murdered lawful delayed execution
Of course not. The way the kid was treated is a disgrace. I wonder how he would have been treated had he been from a different country.
@johnpowell It seems to me he probably was brain dead and not in a coma. I was wondering about that myself. Unless the parents quickly decided to cease nutrition to him. It’s all horrible either way.
@Earthbound_Misfit Which country? I think they even torture their own countrymen.
Yes, they do, but I do wonder how much North Korea’s conflict with the US had on how he was treated.
@chyna I’m just curious, do you think Lisa Ling’s sister’s admission that they broke the law was coerced? That she was telling a lie when she said it? I had wondered that myself when I first heard about it.
I am wondering what the parents’ reactions were when the kid told them he was going to take this stupid tour to North Korea. If my child came to me and said that, I’d say “hell no. Hell no. There’s a big world out there, waiting for you to visit it. North Korea, Syria, places like that, no way.”
I agree with what others said, it was a very stupid move for him to steal the poster. He probably thought it was just a silly prank like the things kids do when they’re running around hotels without their mommy. Maybe nobody told him he better be on his best behavior. I’m imagining he didn’t realize what kind of consequences there could be in that country.
I wrote a question about this yesterday and I mentioned that I just read that the tour company that sent him to North Korea announced they are no longer going to be doing tours to North Korea.
Very sad outcome.
I agree with what was said about Lisa Ling’s sister, too. With GPS and all other types of map software, you had no idea you were on the wrong side of the border? I was wondering if she did it for its newsworthyness, but then it went too far (literally and figuratively).
@jca How can he not have been warned about NK’s brutality? It seems impossible to me. If not his parents, then I would think the tour would. It’s hard for me to understand someone not knowing in general just from watching TV an average amount.
I agree with you, young, and probably just thought it was a silly prank, but I also wondered if it was more than that. He stole a propaganda poster I think. Similar to having Nazi artifacts he might have seen it as a coveted item to have in the US. Maybe worth money, certainly something to gain attention.
What type of your was it?
@jca Thanks for the link. It sounds like they are very warned. I guess maybe he was more likely to be singled out as an American. More reason to be in best behavior. I’m afraid to take cruises or trips to Muslim countries in the Middle East with my last name, and just how I look. When I was changing my name when I got married my thought was now I’m the first dead on a hijacked plane. I was married in 1993. I don’t understand such naïveté.
I am more extreme than many people, but not as many as one might think. A Jewish friend married a Palestinian guy (both American) and thought about going to Dubai as part of their honeymoon, but in the end didn’t go there, because she is Jewish.
The getting drunk part really disgusts me. I guess the Chinese people in the trip were drinking too? Or, promoting it as ok, but my experience is Americans have a reputation of being drunk and disorderly, and better to not live up to that stereotype.
It does sound like a rich kids tour. I wonder if the parents did object to him going? They probably funded it.
Even in Cuba, where we now can go by cruiseship, I wouldn’t risk stealing a poster. I’m sure their jails are no fun either. Firing squads come to mind. I don’t steal to begin with.
This is why they say people’s brains aren’t done devoloping until after age 25. The biggest problem: lack of understanding consequences.
Deserve, no… His race, and economic status made him an easy villain though, in the court of public opinion.
Think of the responses on the “Barron Trump” thread. A lot of the negativity there is because of Trump. In this case, the guy was seen as a similar person. In this world, people just don’t have empathy for an affluent kid, who made a stupid decision, possibly based on his own high opinion of himself. A lot of people who enjoy similar wealthy lifestyles think they are above the laws. And in some cases, they are. None of us are free of judgement due to stereotypes. His was a carefree, spoiled, rich, white boy. Only those who really knew him, could cast aspersions on his character. But to the world, he was what his perception was. Not a real person, with real problems, idiosyncrasies, and feelings.
Simply put. This was a case of someone yanking on a snake’s tail, and getting bit…
^^I disagree to the extent that your answer implies because he was rich he felt entitled to steal, and I just don’t think one has anything to do with the other.
Sen McCain came out and said yesterday that “Americans stupid enough to go to N Korea should sign a waiver”.
Even a distinguished US Senator says he was stupid.
The reason he had to be killed was far more mundane, and can be laid directly at the feet of his parents. Names matter. His name killed him.
Any reasonably competent writer or close reader can tell you that if you give a main character a name that means “tepid brewski” or “temperate coffin” that character has to die tragically. He. Has. To. Die.
My young friend Mort told me that with his dying breath. It’s a literal necessity. That is, it is “literally impossible” to live with that name.
I’ll bet that if you go back and look at his baby pictures, you’ll find a lot of them that show him in red shirts.
“Tepid Brewski” – Interesting observation.
If had name had been “Rex Guttwhisky” would have have been treated differently?
You have to use some common sense in foreign nations, more so in nations that are less than friendly to the U.S. My dad told me that when he was in the military, he and four or five of his men travelled from Greece all the way to Germany, thru Eastern Block countries. They had no issues at all, and made the trip safely. Despite traveling in an American Chevy station wagon that must have stood out like a sore thumb. And this was in the early 60s, during the cold war. He said they traveled in civilian clothes and kept a low profile. Never told me the purpose of the trip, he said he couldn’t go into details. Another incident he told me about, was in Pakistan about the same time period. He and one of his NCO’s were walking down a street when a mob began beating an individual, possibly a Hindu. His guy tried to intervene, but dad had to physically restrain him and gave him a direct order to stay out of it. They went on about their business with no issues. Just use some common sense when travelling abroad.
I thought Otto means rich? I’m surprised that isn’t brought up.
Jesus. The “comedian” is a complete asshole. NO he did not deserve to die because he was a rich frat boy. His upbringing may have contributed to his foolishness in trying to steal something, thinking regular rules only apply to regular people, not rich people, but he didn’t deserve what he got.
Amanda Knox didn’t deserve the treatment she got either just because she was a sexually active female.
@Dutchess What? I never made any such remark! I’ve never been so insulted. Oh well, its early yet.
Um, I think you’re talking to the wrong Jelly @NomoreY_A.
@Dutchess_III My bad. The comedian comment thru me off. I flatter myself.
Oh. No. I was referring to the “comedian” in his link.
The people in the link give the impression that those mocking the boy approve of his ordeal. The truth is that the ridicule occurred only at the announcement of the circumstances around the kid’s arrest. There was NO joking when the kid was tried and sentenced. It’s a crude attempt by some sadly witless folks to shame their opposites- very funny people who excel at ridiculing the former.
@Dutchess_III I am confident of that, lol. Methinks you be a girl what don’t pull her punches.
Actually…I DO pull punches. But it depends on the situation.
Please note, this clip is from when the kid was arrested, not from the last week or so. And Larry Wilmore is far from “a complete asshole.”
Warmbier did not deserve to die. But he sure should not have been surprised he was arrested for being a jerk in North Korea.
Gosh, I guess a lot of people are as bad as me on this Q. ~
@JLeslie . I was saying that the perception of the public, was that his actions may have been motivated by his affluence… I have no clue, what his thinking was. I would wager, that he was simply not thinking… Like a normal young man…
Did anybody read the details?
^If your read the details, then nothing and the comment doesn’t apply.
@josie, what detail(s) do you want us to focus on?
@MrGrimm888, do we really know he was in a coma for a year? Where did that information come from? I agree it seems odd that he survives in a coma for a year and dies on his return to the US. For all we know, he has been experiencing torture and abuse for the past year and fell into a coma recently. Why was he returned? What was the motivation for the decision to release him? There are many questions in this situation.
@Earthbound_Misfit And I thought it was odd that the family refused an autopsy. Everyone has their own feelings about something like that, but I think I would have agreed to one to find out what actually happened to him.
I agree @chyna. I don’t understand that decision either. This whole situation is odd. I can understand a young man being reckless and visiting North Korea and stealing a poster. I can totally see the North Korean authorities treating him badly, and as I said earlier, I don’t think that being a US citizen would have offered him any protection – I suspect the opposite. Why he was released and what happened to him during the period he was incarcerated and why there is to be no autopsy are all unknowns and oddities as far as I can see. I would definitely want to know what happened to my child.
Sorry @josie , I’m not sure what I missed. Did I misinterpret the question?
I love how Trump says it was disgrace and the kid should have been rescued long ago. Well, he had 6 months in his tenure to rescue him, but didn’t. He probably forget he was the president when he said it.
coming from the guy who said he would institute torture worse than during the bush regime, said he would intentionally murder the families of terrorists, women and children included, and promoted the inventor of the colonies’ modern torture programme to be the CIA’s second in command.
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