Who are these people and what are they trying to accomplish?

I am friends with some people who served in Desert Storm. You should see the things they post to Facebook. It’s disturbing. One Marine owns a bar across the street from where a protest was yesterday and he shared a picture of the protesters. He called them “special snowflakes.” There were some nasty comments left on that photo that supported this man’s views.

I’m not saying all veterans are this way, but the majority I know are pro Trump and angrily proud.

I do believe they are fringe. I find it funny that the same people who would post signs in their yard “impeach clinton” ( Bill) “Hillary for Prison”, “Impeach Obama” now have “make america great again” and huge “Trump” signs in their yard. They are the same ones calling these protesters snowflakes. I mean, yes they are but so are the ones casting them out to be. I’m at a point where I loathe the fringe on the left and the right, they’re just not decent people.

They are true patriots and protectors of the Vaterland.

They are the precious ones, who cannot abide anyone having another opinion.

Damn, you can’t tell the players without a program. Are the ones with the American flags Pro-Trump or Pro-America?

They are Americans trying to bring about the downfall of their once great country.

The caption says, “Kyle Chapman is held back by fellow Trump supporters”. He is an excellent representative of the kind of “values voter” who put Trump into office.

Repeat Felon Is Hero Alt-Right Deserves
”[Kyle Chapman], the latest hero of the alt-right, a California man who has beaten and maced anti-Trump protesters on the streets of Berkeley, is a thrice-convicted felon who has served three separate prison terms, jumped bail, twice violated parole, used cocaine, LSD, and meth, and was described by his own lawyer as having ‘severe psychological problems,’”

Here’s an example of how they think. http://imgur.com/iQe9ut7

Lovely, eh?

These are very scary times we’re living in.

I think it would come down to asking these people what they are about. The folks trying to impeach Trump are idiots….he has done nothing that would be worthy of impeachment. It would be an interesting interview…what are you protesting? What crimes do you see that Trump has committed that would be worthy of impeachment? Where are you from? If they aren’t locals…why are you here protesting? Meanwhile, you can go to the pro-Trump supporters and go the same route…ask them what they are about. Why are you here? Does a counter protest really accomplish anything? Do you believe these folks have the right to protest?
We have a single picture and a single story. Not really enough to make a true decision about the motives of the players. What I would really like to find out is if protesters from either side are being paid to be there. If we have come to that in this country then I suggest we need to follow the money and arrest those that are instigating discontent in this country.

@jonsblond, it is a slippery slope you open. Funkdaddy asked a question concerning the people in the picture. He wasn’t looking for ideology. You open that door wide open. You bring out bad speech by some conservatives. But without really any effort I could likewise tote out dozens of examples of the same sort of thing from the left. Remember Martin Bashir talking about wanting to “punish” Sarah Palin? Pretty graphic and aggressive…worse than what you cited…and it was aired on national TV at prime time. Does that represent how “They” think? If so, is that lovely too?

“Virtue is the only fragrance that blows against the wind.”

What?

Also, some of them are showing three fingers and a circle. What does that mean?

@Seawulf I shared insight. This is what funkdaddy asked for. I have a liberal friend who protested peacefully yesterday and a mutual republican veteran friend who very rudely complained about the protesters. I shared their thoughts about the subject. I’m not here to debate.

Also, some of them are showing three fingers and a circle. What does that mean?

It’s a Nazi/white supremacist thing.

@Call_Me_Jay, is that the same gesture that we constantly see Trump making? Are they emulating him, is he going along with them, or are the gestures unrelated?

@Jeruba Unrelated. So far.

It’s a hand gesture among the alt-right brownshirts. Notice they’re making it in unison while their champion lunges to attack a smaller non-threatening “ethnic” guy who has his hands in the air.

Trump has not adopted it. Yet.

It’s a solidarity signal for enthusiastic Trump-supporting, white-power, white-nationalist cretins.

So…it doesn’t look like this?

Doesn’t that symbol mean OK?

Perhaps it is all very innocuous but you got to admit, when done by the group it sure is reminiscent of this

Yes, it can mean“OK”.

As the Independent story says, the hateful Trump fans at 4chan started it as a hoax. The idea was to spread the word that it WAS a white-power symbol, and then find photos of its innocuous use to say “Look! The secret white power message is EVERYWHERE!!” And then “Ha ha fooled you, we made that up!”

I didn’t know Trump used it. And Googling shows that people WERE using to show Trump support as far back as 2015.

The story is a bit complicated, because different people started using it at different times, and the 4channers deliberately tried to make it an in-joke to use against outsiders.

But when a group of violent white supremacists are flashing it in unison, you can’t possibly believe they’re simply making the OK sign.

It is being used very deliberately by loudmouth racists. It has in fact become their way to signal which side they are on.

@Call_Me_Jay: I didn’t know Trump used it.

Trump uses it virtually every time he speaks. It’s part of his repertoire, along with the spread arms and the index finger and the rest. See here.

Of course he didn’t originate it; anybody with enough fingers can do this. But he uses it as visual punctuation, for emphasis and effect, and not as a standalone symbol, or so it seems—not even (in context) to say “ok,” which doesn’t look quite like what he does. His gesture is more like the way a conductor holds a baton. The question is whether you think he is deliberately using it as a cue and signal to a particular group (or they to him).

The question is whether you think he is deliberately using it as a cue and signal to a particular group (or they to him)

They to him. That was what I was referring to when I wrote “people WERE using to show Trump support as far back as 2015.”

It’s not one thing. I am not providing links because the subject is exhausting. The gesture did not become an alt-right symbol via a simple top-down path.

But I will boil it down to this:
White nationalists and neo-Nazis and Trump fans and white supremacists ARE using the symbol to signal their membership in those groups.

Trump is not using it that way, but for people consciously adopting it, it is their Nazi salute.

I am not exaggerating or stretching. It is their pubic salute to racism and xenophobia.

Wow. The paranoia over this simple picture is amazing. Suddenly there is some mass conspiracy of white supremacists out there that are secretly creating signals for each other to signal some sort of secret brotherhood. Amazing.

@seawulf575 Nothing secret about it, and not so vast. Well documented on reddit and other places. There are quite a few white supremacists that actively attend pro-Trump rallies and also counter-demonstrate to anti-Trump protests.

Many from that picture taken in Texas were also at a recent pro-Trump gathering in Berkeley CA.

@seawulf575 It never fails to amaze me how much people can read into a few simple statementst. “Paranoia? Really? “Mass Conspiracy”? Where did you glean that from? Amazing? Yeah, your overreaction to some comments that are not in line with your sensibilities..

@rojo, I suggest you go back and read the comments so far. It started out as comments on a picture and quickly devolved into a nazi movement, ties to the president, suggestions the president might be part of the movement, etc. As the comments went on the scheme got bigger. It looked and felt like there was a lot of mass conspiracy and paranoia. Maybe I’m not as observant as others, but I saw a picture with what…40 people in it? I saw three people displaying the mystic hand symbol. I’m not sure how we got from there to the president other than the obvious one that some of the people in the picture are pro-Trump. I’d say this is a group of rednecks…nothing more, nothing less. I’d suggest the BLM two hands up symbol was far more reaching and just as misguided as any supposed white supremacist signals.

@zenvelo I have no doubt that white supremacists support Trump. but if you read the comments above, you find that there are people here that truly believe Trump is part of that group or soon will be, that believe that all Trump supporters are in that group, that somehow the symbol shown by three people in the picture listed is somehow a call for Nazis everywhere to come join the parade. You tell me this group pictured in Texas were also at a rally in Berkeley. I would believe that but it tells me two things: The significance of the “hand signal” is even smaller than people might think since apparently it is the same people doing it at different locations and that it supports my earlier comment. If people on either side are funding the instigators, we need to follow the money and hold the ones with the pocketbooks accountable for all the hate and discontent they are spreading. We saw the same thing with the BLM groups…organizers going being sent from city to city to organize what often turned out to be violent protests.

@seawulf575 I did as you suggested and, again, I fail to see how any of the above can be classified as “paranoia” It is a stretch to even attempt to describe it as such. Just because people point out the obvious to those whose closeness to the situation render them too blind to see is or to offer possible connections between the actions depicted in the picture and the actions of other reactionary groups in the past does not fall into the category of mass hysteria. Pointing out possible ties to other groups and other actions could, I suppose, be categorized as “mass conspiracy” if ones mind were made up and not open to other possibilities but they could more correctly be classified as open ended investigations of additional lines of reason.

As for the hand signal, let us look at that directly.

1. Someone posts a pic and asks what these people are trying to accomplish.
2. Although it is not called out in the photo it appears the majority of those pictured are Red Hats, pro-trump counter-protesters I say counter because the original protest was not supposed to be pro-Trump
3. In the pic, several people have their hands in the air. Three are flashing some kind of hand sign.
4. One part of the original question was “What’s with the salutes?............”
5. There are a couple of posts regarding the attitude of those who attend pro-Trump rallys.
6. Someone asks what the three finger & circle sign they are exhibiting means.
7. Someone states that it is a Nazi/White Supremacist thing. Someone else points out it is similar to the “ok” sign.
8. It is pointed out that Trump uses the same gesture and there are questions about whether this is related.
9 I point out that the arms and gestures are similar to those of the Nazi and provide a photo for comparison.
10.There is a general discussion about the gesture, Trump and his supporters.
11. During the discussion it is pointed out that the gesture may have been co-opted by white supremacist pro-Trumps supporters and that many are using it to indicate inclusivity within this sub-set.
12. You decide and state that all of the above is a prime example of paranoia and mass conspiracy theories.
13 I point out (possibly not in the best fashion and for that I apologize) that it is you who is jumping to far out conclusions.

Again, sorry, but I fail to see the depth of paranoia and hysteria you do.

@rojo, I guess you and I have a difference. Here’s things I see as the hysteria and paranoia:

Funkdaddy specifically stated:“For one second, if we can ignore Trump, ignore the general feelings for either political party, and just think about the people there.” It wasn’t long before we started seeing comments like: “is that the same gesture that we constantly see Trump making?” which was followed by an answer that included: “Trump has not adopted it. Yet.”

Those comments alone speak to me. The original questions specifically stated the asker wanted to ignore Trump and yet, this crowd quickly goes right into trying to tie Trump to this crowd. The paranoia starts to leak out with the “Yet” at the end of the last question which implies to me that that responder believes the POTUS will or at least likely could start giving gang signs so he can be part of some oddball group. Now if those were the only comments, I probably wouldn’t have called it hysteria or paranoia. But it then continues and grows:

“So…it doesn’t look like this?” which contains a tie to picture of Trump speaking where he has his hand in a position in which it resembles the “OK” sign. I have seen Trump do this before and it actually comes out when he is trying to emphasize something he is saying…sort of a “precise” motion…like he is looking for just the right word. A far cry from flashing a gang symbol. One of the responses to this statement was: “Perhaps it is all very innocuous but you got to admit, when done by the group it sure is reminiscent of this” with a link to a picture of nazi soldiers saluting the Fuhrer. So to me we are now at a point where a picture in which 5 or 6 people in the crowd of 40 have their hands up and only 2 or 3 are making some weird sign looks like nazi soldiers in which all the soldiers are saluting. You don’t see this as a little bit of a stretch and paranoid?
Are the people in the picture oddballs? Sure. White Supremacist? Possibly…I don’t know enough about WS to say. Are they using some hand sign? Again..possible. I might even go probable since it is an odd formation with the hand. But to drag that to the point where the POTUS might be in on it or soon will be and that this small group of redneck looking folks is somehow like a nazi army? I think that is a huge stretch and to me that shows paranoia and borders on a conspiracy theory. Let me ask: Did we have the same reaction of going to similarities to Nazis when pictures like this came out? http://mesosyn.com/BLM-03.jpg I mean after all, it has a whole group of people with their hands up in a salute, symbolizing a radical group that caused much violence and upheaval in this country. Oh, and I could tie it to our government leaders as well: http://mesosyn.com/BLM-04.jpg. You see how silly that looks if I try making those ties?