What would you say to someone who told you they believe your child needs to be cured by Jesus Christ?

“I think you need to be burnt at the stake.”

it is pointless debating those convinced that Jesus can “cure” your son. The kind and sensible thing to do is to fervently grab the man’s arm and with grave expression plead “Please O please pray for my son!”. Then walk away as fast as you can. But if the devil is truly in you, ask him to produce a list of those whom Jesus has “cured”. Then walk away as fast as you can.

“Jesus taught me to trust the Doctor’s that God gave us. And God doesn’t make broken people,”

Nothing. Ignore. If they’re sane, it will end there.

Everything is in god’s plan. Stop fighting his will.

Frankly, I see no humor in this situation. The closed-mind views of this man and his friends are reprehensible.

I agree with the elephant, buuuttt… I might say, “I thought Jesus was dead?”

I’m really sorry you had to deal with these idiots.

People have each their own beliefs.
Just because their beliefs differ from yours is no cause to ridicule them for theirs.
I can understand your love for your child, and your need to be supportive.
Unless these people are coming to your home uninvited, or seeking legal action, then they are fully entitled to believe as they do.
Their intentions are good, even if their methods are misplaced.
On the bottom line, they want the same things as you. They want your child to be happy, and safe. Their definitions differ, but their desire is to help.
I hope you can somehow find a peaceful middle ground.

Why do you have people like this in your feed. Sorry that would be an endless frustration for me- you can hide them, you know, they don’t know if you do that. And, weird as it is they too are entitled to their beliefs. Having people with such different ideas and beliefs in your Facebook feed isn’t helping you lol. You can block them, too

I’d tell them Jesus Christ touched them in the head!

Ps @jonsblond I’m surprised they haven’t hid or blocked you. All mine hid/blocked me when trump won.

I would lie through my teeth at tell them that I am Jewish and that my child, unlike theirs, has the blood of the people of Jesus in his veins—that, according to their own Bible, we are of God’s chosen people and therefore any meddling by some Christian wannabe is unnecessary. Then I would offer them a blessing, behatzlakah, and walk away from that clueless, chauvinistic putz.

And if they pursued the attempt any further, I would offer to show them my circumcised penis.

His daughter bullied one of my son’s best friends a few years back. His daughter wrote a note to this girl and told her to kill herself. The girl only told my son. I just found this out last year. When this man suggested that we talk (meaning he talk and we listen) I told him that he needs to look in his own home before he suggests that my child needs cured. I then told him about the bullying situation. I told him that he may thinks he is trying to be helpful and kind but that his words and suggestion hurt and only harm the well being of my child. I blocked him after that.

People were suggesting that Satan was leading my child astray and they compared being transgender to drug addiction and sex abusers. ugh

@Patty_Melt I’ve always respected the right for people to believe in whatever religion they want to believe. I’ve stood up for our religious members here many times when I felt they were being unfairly attacked. What I will not tolerate is someone saying that my child needs to be cured and that it is wrong for my husband and I to support our child being transgender. People like this breed children who bully children like my son. This is my favorite quote at the moment: We can disagree and still love each other unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist.

@Patty_Melt You are dead wrong. There is statistical proof that anti-LGBT laws have a direct impact on the health of LGBT individuals even when they do not live in the district in which the laws have force. When many states here in the US passed anti-same-sex marriage ordinances even though marriage was not legal nationally, the rates of anxiety disorders among LGBT people increased by more than 230% nationwide. Individuals do not get treated for anxiety disorders for no reason.

That is one statistic. I have read many more. When an LGBT person lives in an area with a lot of anti-LGBT bigotry/hatred, they die an average of 14 years sooner than those living in more accepting areas.

We are actually dying because of the hate these kind of people are showing to @jonsblond. Your idea that I should turn my other cheek and allow them their beliefs makes me want to vomit. We are dying.

You wrote, “On the bottom line, they want the same things as you. They want your child to be happy, and safe. Their definitions differ, but their desire is to help.” That’s absolute bullshit. They want this child to conform or die. It’s that simple. They don’t care if this child dies. They do not want him to be happy and safe.

Thank you @Hawaii_Jake <3

I think we forget that the most important person in these situations is the person with the quietest voice. Not the ex mayor, not Jesus Christ and not even the mother, but the child.

Rant on, Jake. I see nothing to suggest they wish this child harm.
I was a very small child. I could not change my size, nor should I if I could.
People left me out of various activities because of my size, always trying to assert they were protecting me from harm. I was hurt and angry for a long time.
I would not accuse these people of attempting to harm me. I was a tough little girl, up to physical challenges well beyond what those people thought was possible for me.
I didn’t like that they took opportunities from me, but they were just smothering types who didn’t want to see me harmed.
I got over it decades ago.

@Patty_Melt I will rise to anti-LGBT hate that you are defending every time I see it.

When you have had a friend murdered for being gay, then you can talk to me about how much you suffered for being short.. When you have had another friend savagely beaten to a pulp with baseball bats after he left a gay bar, then you can talk to me about how much you suffered for being short.

I’m so glad you got over it. I’ll tell that to the grave stone of my friend.

@Hawaii_Jake Didn’t you know? There are millions of short people being denied rights that the rest of us take for granted.

This situation is not the same. Nobody has made threats, so far as the information given would say.
Sure, they have boneheaded ideas of what would be helpful, but their intent is kindness.

@Patty_Melt Would you feel safe and welcome in a very small rural community if 80% of the population thought that you needed to be saved by Jesus Christ because Satan took control of you?

I said small, not just short.
I was constantly treated like a toddler. Simple every day things were kept from me all the time. It was years of being treated as a lesser person.
I know you are frustrated. I know it. They believe they are demonstrating to you a deep love.
I do get your feelings of mob mentality, and feeling judged.
Still, judging them for what is love to them, will not help them to understand what is love to you.
I care about your hurt. Honest. I am only trying to point out that for me to assert my thoughts and beliefs, I have to accept that others can do the same.
To tell them they are being hateful doesn’t help. All you can hope for is to hold on to your love, loyalty, and devotion, and eventually they may see they were not being helpful.
I was still small when I joined the Navy, by the way. I got grief there too, but also there was triumph. I was the only sailor on base who would shinny a mast to unyangle lanyards. I could fling with one arm fenders which outweighed me.
Others came to me hoping to learn my “secrets” involved with accomplishments.
I had many opportunities to prove myself, and I gained lots of pride.
I just don’t want you to focus so much energy on the frustrations, because the future holds so much opportunity, and you should save your energy for celebrating those times.
Those people will not follow your child through life.
Let them know you feel differently about Jesus than they do, and that they feel differently about transgender than you do, and you are not looking for “cures”.
Ohhhh, yes, I know the feeling. I also know that I regret the energy I wasted on nowhere situations.

@jonsblond, show them this
Be patient, I am double checking the problem with my link.
Okay, now it is right.

^Transgender people experience rampant workplace discrimination, may be met with challenges to their parental relationships, lack sufficient access to quality healthcare free from discrimination and face difficulties in obtaining appropriate name and gender designations on their identity documents. They are discriminated against for using the bathroom, locker room and dressing room that fits their gender identity.

Disheartening research from the 2011 National Transgender Discrimination Survey reveals that 41% of transgender participants (2,644 out of 6,450) had attempted, at some point, to take their own lives. Sexual assault was the biggest cause, followed by physical assault, harassment in school, and job loss due to bias.

How others view and treat transgender people are the main cause of a 41% suicide rate for transgender people.

Please tell me again how frustrating it was to be a shorter individual.

Your disagreement is rooted in the oppression and denial of humanity and right to exist for millions of people.

I can’t believe you are making it a one up.

Well, putting it kindly… it is when you are fighting for basic rights. Your privilege is showing, Patty.

@Patty_Melt She isn’t making it a one up. You are comparing apples to oranges. Being small is an inconvenience. Being transgender is life altering to the person that is transgender and their family.

I kinda like being short.

so do I

Me too.

I never disliked being small. I did dislike people treating me more like a pet than a person.
But of course, my pain was small, compared to the pain of a trans person.
Being set aside, belittled, overlooked, is more painful for some people than for others. That is why their thumb sucking privileges should never be revoked.

@Patty_Melt I have never heard of a person being murdered solely because they were small. Your defense of hate has made its point.

I hate hate, but my hate does not put the lives of the object in jeopardy. You are condoning murder.

Wait, Jesus is MURDER????!!!!
That is a bumper sticker I never saw before.

@Patty_Melt I understand your intentions are good. I do not think you are a bad person and I respect your right to believe in what God you choose. @chyna is also a religious person and I have rallied for her right on Fluther to share her opinions when others belittled her. The difference between her and you is that she understands being transgender is just like being a black person, a gay person, Caucasian or Mexican. These are things that can’t be changed. I have no respect for a person if they have a negative opinion about a group of people and they vote for policies that negatively affect their life.

I am an atheist.
I believe in no gods.
Just like you don’t know that about me, you don’t know how other people vote.
The only hater I see in your situation is you.
I am not defending Christians. Honestly, I don’t think they need me to.
My point is not the rightness or wrongness of their religon, it is their right to their way of life is just as valid as yours.

Hate is hate @Patty_Melt whether it is from a Christian, Jew, Islamist, or Atheist.

Saying your child is, “wrong and needs my viewpoint”, is seen by some a Hate.

^ *Muslim

I’d say “Well thank you so much for your kindness. But I had a dream one day and saw Jesus himself. He told me not to do anything to my son until when he said so, because my son is destined for something big. Jesus needs my son to be in this state at this moment.” Yeah, everything with Jesus in it would send the preachers chill :D

But seriously, I’ve been in the same situation before, earlier than you think. I’ve had people trying to drag me to all kinds of religions. One of them is even part of my extended family! That’s right, I’m still being “harrassed” by them now. Fortunately none of them has ever burst my door and dragged me to a dark basement yet.

And how do I get by? I thank them for their “kindness” and say nothing more. I know there is absolutely no point in trying to convince them how they are wrong or I will never follow them. It would only further make them believe I need to be saved and increase their harrassment. Worst case scenario, I use their own logic to talk back to them. I can tell them God has a plan for me and he wants me to be like this and no one should interfere. I don’t have anything against what you believe, but good luck trying to force your belief on me.

@Sneki2 I know I was trying to get something to RHYME with Atheist.

Raciest ?.......Tastiest…..?

(OK…..I’m out….)

I’m the hater? Please show me where I have been hateful, Patty. If being an advocate for the safety and well being of my child is considered as hate, so be it.

@Patty_Melt You are supporting those who believe my child needs cured by Jesus Christ. This implies that something is wrong with my child. You are the one supporting hate.

The most hateful people I’ve ever known have thumped their Bibles and professed “undying love” while spewing all manner of vile, hate-filled vitriol towards their fellow man.

I’m not supporting any sides. I am in support of people being able to believe differently from me, from each other, without delivering hate.
They believe there is something to be cured, you don’t.
You believe they intend you and your family harm.
I guess by that thinking we should be concerned about you blowing up Churches.

Having a negative opinion about a group of people who can’t change who they are is hateful. I have never hated a group of people. I dislike those who hate on groups of people.

wow, wtf Patty?

@Patty_Melt

You’ve got to be trolling with this shit.

I was questioning my sanity for a moment @Darth_Algar. Thanks for the reassurance

Ohhhh, sorry. I thought you wanted truth. You just wanted salve for your owies.
You know, I didn’t come to this thread name calling or hating anyone. I only pointed out that freedom and rights for everybody, or nobody.
Get mouthy and hateful now.
I am rapidly losing my concern for people who claim to be victims here. Rights are not only for who cries loudest.
Call me a troll, darth. So?
I know me personally, and I am a swell person.

Again, please show me where i was hateful, Patty. I am not a hateful person so I would like to learn from this moment. I would like exact comments, not your interpretation of them.

I’ll say “what makes you think that Jesus can and other Gods can’t!? Are you suggesting that Buddha, Shiva, Durga, Allah, spiritual ancestors, etc can’t do that?”. Pretend to be the supporter of other religion, test the water and see how he react. If his answer has no fairness and he thinks that his belief is the absolute best then he’ll surely earn himself a lot of arguments from other people from other religions (thus the discussion will probably end in chaos, other people will fight in my stead, and he’ll probably get more enemies). I’ll leave him in a situation like that. Well, only if I have the energy to play along with him because believe it or not these type of people are everywhere and it’s usually not worth my while to argue about their religion.

I don’t care about the intention that he has for your child. Running his mouth about how your child can be cured as if your child is having disease or mental illness will be pretty insulting to any rational parents. He mocks you or your beloved family he gets his sorry little behind kicked.

@Patty_Melt In what way is anyone being denied rights? How are the Christians in question here being denied their rights? I often find that people use “rights” as a fallback when they are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. You are essentially just considering disagreement to be “hatred” which shows a juvenile understanding of all of this.

If it’s “ridicule” to denounce someone’s beliefs that transgenderism can be cured, then it’s also ridicule to imply that transgenderism is something you can just “pray away”. Why are religious beliefs immune from scorn, but sexualities aren’t? Both could be argued to be an inseparable part of someone.

In before being accused of hate…

Sounds like in this case it is homophobia dressed up as religion. Boo! Hiss!

I have not yet read any of the other answers, will do so after posting.

I would tell him that my child’s transgender situation is not up for discussion.

If he kept it up, I would tell him to fuck off! Seriously. It’s none of his business.

It’s too bad you’re not in California (the liberal parts) because being transgendered, although still interesting and a “curiosity” to most people, is a bit more common.

I worked with a transgender woman about 15 years ago. Those of us who worked directly with her, got to know her pretty quickly and accepted her right away. Those who only knew her in passing gossiped about her in the hall.

A different friend of mine, who I also worked with until a few years ago, who had a daughter that grew up around me, until the age of about 8, until I changed jobs, is now a 14 year old boy. The boy’s father is 100
% supportive of his son. Unfortunately, he and his wife are now divorced, partly because of this situation. The mother does not accept that her son (the child that was born her daughter) identifies as a boy.

We had a lovely transgender Jelly here, some years back. I miss him. Maybe he still checks in, without us knowing : )

I wouldn’t say anything, because I wouldn’t be having a conversation about my child or a problem my child was dealing with, with a group of people from my town, and especially not with parents of my child’s friends or school peers, via Facebook. While I can totally understand I might need support, and I might look for that support online, I’d look for that support in groups where my child’s name and anonymity was protected.

I would be very concerned about discussions about my child being available online for as long as the internet exists. While my child might not appear to be bothered by my sharing information now, I’d be worried that they would be concerned about something I wrote that related to them in the future. My child might not have the awareness to be concerned yet. So I would feel it was my obligation to protect their privacy.

When my kids were younger, I was acutely conscious of how private kids can be. And of how much they can want to avoid appearing different or standing out. I learned this through my own experiences. I didn’t have a good relationship with my stepmother. As a teenager, we all had to attend a health check at school, it was a standard thing to make sure we didn’t have any problems and a parent had to be there too. The next year, I was called out of school to have another health check. I can still remember having to get up in class and leave the room. I felt everyone thought there was something wrong with me. And I was so angry with my stepmother who I believed had discussed me and suggested I was troublesome. However, with some age, I think while she may very likely have bitched about me, they were probably more worried that I was withdrawn and dealing with problems at home. My point is that I was really upset and horrified that my friends might think there was something wrong with me. I didn’t tell my parents for a long time. But I was hurt, upset and felt betrayed by my stepmother discussing what I considered to be private information outside of our home. I didn’t want to stand out and I didn’t want to be discussed.

Now, with the internet, information does not go away and it can come back to bite people.
So again, I would not say anything to this man, because I would never have got into a discussion with him that related to a problem my child was facing or that involved my child in any way.

I’m very careful what I say on Facebook and I’m even pretty cautious about what I say on Fluther. On Fluther, even though it’s anonymous, I’m often thinking it’s possible that a coworker can stumble across this site (the way I did, ten years ago) and in reading the responses, start researching with just a few clicks and concluding that jca is me.

On Facebook, it’s obviously not anonymous (unless one uses a fake account) and so I am very careful about putting my opinions, my work issues, family issues, etc. down for all to see. Even though my stuff is “friends only” people can still cut and paste or screen shot if they want to.

Whether I lived in a small town or a big city like New York or LA, I wouldn’t put anything about my child and their issues on a page or group. I would hate for my child and my family to be the subject of gossip. I wouldn’t look for support or empathy from a local parenting group.

On Facebook, people can be very vicious. I’m in groups of cat owners and there have been occasions where someone will post a “Rest in Peace” about their cat that just died and when people ask what happened, and the OP says he got hit by a car, people attack the OP for letting the cat outside. That’s just one example of the nasty behavior that people engage in. In a local school group for a neighboring town (school that we don’t attend), I see parents sniping at each other, so nasty. I say to myself “these people are going to see each other at the school soccer game or at an event, and they’ve just torn each other apart on Facebook?”

Any support I look for online comes from pm’s from friends, or texts. I steer clear of putting out personal info and thoughts for all to see.

I am talking about my child. It is who they are. There is nothing to be ashamed of. Being transgender is not a problem and is not something to hide. This kind of thinking is what makes life so so difficult for transgender people.

@Earthbound_Misfit Very well said. Children going through serious personal problems should be able to trust their parents will not betray their trust and confidentiality while they work towards resolution and find their way.

@jca Agreed.

BEING TRANSGENDER IS NOT A PROBLEM!!!

I’m seriously tired of explaining myself to Coloma and her cohorts about this whenever I discuss it here. Most of this discussion I had with this father was via private message. On the facebook thread I stood up for transgender rights.

@jonsblond: If you are referring to my post, I’m not saying it’s a problem. I’m saying I’m very careful about putting personal information on the internet. That’s why I gave other examples of things like the person saying the cat got hit by a car. Nowhere in what I wrote did I say anything about a problem.

You are giving unsolicited parenting advice.

OK, my utmost apologies. Carry on as you wish.

I guess we shouldn’t speak about women and the things they need to fight for. Same goes for black people and the injustices they deal with on a daily basis. We better not talk about them on the internet. It will come back to bite them.

You are who you are and you can’t change that. There is nothing wrong about me speaking about my child and the thousands of other transgender children and the hate and scorn they deal with on a daily basis. I will not be shamed for doing so. This type of mentality is the same as the father who suggested my child be cured.

I’ve never understood why a person’s sexual identity, or sexuality are something that is so important. As far as public opinion goes.

I feel like those who would try to “cure” sexual desires, have probably had those desires themselves. And through oppressing those desires, with the excuse of religion, they see it as a useful tool. So, they recommend such means to “cure” others who don’t conform to what they perceive as “acceptable, ” or “normal.”

@jonsblond . I’m afraid that you are wasting your time trying to talk sense into the religious people who want your child “cured.” However, you are in many ways correct. You must engage in such debates, if progress is desired. If you want gay, or transgender people to enjoy the perception of normality, you have to talk to people who aren’t understanding of that.
My father was pretty racist, for most of my childhood. Not hateful, but definitely racist. I talked to him about it for years. About how it was wrong, and ignorant. He used to freely say the “N” word, a lot… He also loves his grandchildren. I don’t have kids yet, but one day he said was spouting off the “N” word, and I told him “if you ever used that word around my child, you would never see them again.” That struck a nerve. After decades of futile arguments, I just had to threaten that he wouldn’t be a grandfather to my child. He stopped using the word as much. Eventually, not using it at all. When Obama came into the national view, as a POTUS candidate, he actually loved him. He voted for him in both elections, and to this day, hangs on Obama’s every word. My father was ignorant of most black culture, and of how his bigotry affected others. It wasn’t easy, but eventually, it was beaten into his head. Then, the lights came on.

I agree with what @Patty_Melt said,in her first post. The people spoken of, seem to genuinely care for the child. Their concerns could be viewed as a want for conforming, sure. But as Patty said, from what was mentioned they were well intended, but have different beliefs. I haven’t seen Patty supporting anything other than their right to have different beliefs, and your rights to your beliefs. Other jellies seem to simply be unaware of their chosen rhetoric. Words like “problem,” or even “tolerance,” insinuate that there is something “wrong.” The best word for such things as transgender, that should be used is “coexistence.”
Hopefully, we can all coexist one day. That means respecting each other, regardless of our differences.

Keep trying to educate the ignorant. It’s the only way to get actual change. Moving to a more liberal place will probably make life a little easier for the transgender child. That’s probably what I would do too…

There is a “problem.” The problem is with society though, not the child. I know that some jellies here are offended for being attacked for their statements. But, it is important to make it known how even thoughtful advice, can infer or reveal ignorance.

I believe that debates, such as this thread, are a healthy process of education. I personally don’t believe humans are capable of coexistence, but we have to try right?

Peace n love….

Very well said @MrGrimm888. Thank you.

^Like I said, Peace n love :)

I have asked that this question be moved to General. My question was asked to find answers on how to deal with people who think my child needs to be cured by Jesus Christ. My question is not about what I should or should not talk about on the internet.

Some of you are acting like I’m discussing my child’s first period or a drug addiction. I am discussing the right for my child to coexist peacefully in our community without being judged for something that can’t be changed. My child came out to the world as transgender. We are not staying in the closet to appease fragile minds in the community we live in. My child has a new name and is being called by friends, family and medical professionals the pronouns that fit his gender. This is something that my community needs to know. My child cannot change who he is.

I’ll use this as an example: Say you are a white couple living in a very small town that is all white. The majority of people who live in your town are racist. You adopt a black baby. You get on facebook and see local people making disparaging remarks about black people. What do you do? Do you hide your child in your home so no one can see you have a black child? I would hope you would speak up and help educate the ignorant. This is exactly what I am doing for my child. End of story.

Tell them that it’s none of their freakin’ business! And DO emphasize FREAKIN’!

Aw, go ahead and turn it all the way up

(don’t use the word ‘FREAKIN’)

@Coloma I did not betray the trust of my child. You have very little information as to what exactly I said on facebook about my child. I do not need to explain myself to you, but yet here I am doing it again. Leave me alone about this. You did not answer the question that was asked. My child came out on his own to our community through facebook. That was his decision. Many children in the trans community come out this way to friends and family. We live in a very very small town where everyone knows everything you do. My child being transgender is not a secret in this town, and it shouldn’t be because there is nothing wrong with it. I did not disclose any information that was not already public knowledge.

You asked, “what would you say to someone who told you they believe your child needs to be cured by Jesus Christ?” I answered your question. I would say nothing to such a person. You might not like my response, but I answered your question. My focus would be on helping my child and for me, that would include not putting my child’s personal business on Facebook or other social media for the reasons I (and others) have explained.

If my family was going through this experience, and I needed to seek advice or guidance from online groups, I would limit my online discussions about my child’s needs to groups that are pro-LGTB people. And if I did seek online guidance, I’d keep my child’s name out of the discussion. Even if my child had used Facebook as their original space to come out, I know how dangerous social media is and I’m also aware that this is not a safe world for LGTB people. Protecting my child, emotionally and physically, and educating him/her about the dangers of social media would be an important focus for me. And regardless of how supportive I am of LGTB people, while my child was going through this transition, I would not see my role as being an LGTB advocate. Call me selfish, but my sole focus would be on my child and helping them to make it through this period of their life.

Nobody has said LGTB people should be hidden or stay closeted. Nobody here has suggested being trans is something people should be ashamed of. Nothing could be further from my belief and I see your claim as a ludicrous statement to make. However, I am saying that MY focus would be on MY child and helping her/him. You have said being trans is not a problem, but you have also said your child has been suicidal, is having therapy and is struggling at the moment. So the evidence suggests your child is navigating some very serious challenges. Regardless of how you handle it, if my child was negotiating such difficulties, I’d make them rather than being an online advocate my first priority.

You do what you want to do @jonsblond, but you asked the community ‘what they would say’ and I answered you. You don’t like my response, and that’s your right. However, as a member of this community, I have every right to respond to your public question.

This is one of those issues where attitudes are shifting so quickly, that you can actually determine just how backward your place of residence is by prevailing views on the topic. This is another illustration of how religion is once again caught flat footed in the face of advancing knowledge. Once it became established that gay folk are born not made it’s all over for bigotry and those enforcing it on religious grounds. If you’re a believer, it amounts to the persecution of people for behaving as “God made them”. But worse for opponents of the emancipation of gay and trans people, the fact of being “born this way” girds their struggle in the full armor of a civil rights issue. Resistance is futile, and the children and grandchildren of those holding out will one day taunt them for their hurtful silliness.

It would seem to me that the question is whether or not Jesus Christ would need to cure anyone, and if anyone besides Jesus Christ can say if Jesus Christ should do any curing, and if the person saying that anyone needs to be cured by Jesus Christ would, himself or herself, need to be cured first, or if Jesus Christ would even like anyone speaking for him about any curing supposedly needing to be done, by himself, Jesus Christ.. Has anyone bothered to ask Jesus Christ if he was in the mood to do any curing, providing Jesus Christ decided it actually needed to be done???
Details, people, details!

You should’ve told him you have a hard time believing in prayer because you’ve been praying for God to open their hearts and minds, and apparently both are sealed in a vault that even God can’t penetrate.

This thread has gone out of control. I’ve said my piece. I’m out…

@MrGrimm888 Ya think? :-)

I was so upset with this man that I forgot an important piece of information until just now. This man who wanted to speak to me about our child because he feels he needs to be corrected and saved is on the school board of the school district my child attends.

There was an article in our local paper about him this past spring. Here

What stands out is this: A summary of the language people have brought to me are: false allegations, hate speech, slander, sexism, harassment by gender and such. Yes, he did utilize his personal social media accounts, however when doing so he acted as an agent of the board.

I have people telling me I should report him and others saying to just move and leave it alone. I am not rushing to any decision other than moving as quickly as possible. What pisses me off is the fact that I stood up for this man during these allegations.

Sing him this verse of This Land Is Your Land…

Oh, I am wonderful, and I am marvelous,
I am superb, and I’m stupendous,
And I am perfect just the way I am,
Because
GOD…DOES…NOT…MAKE JUNK!

@Strauss Those words aren’t in This Land Is Your Land but thanks for the link. What a lovely memory of a more hopeful time in our country.

@janbb Not in the original, but in the version as sung my my friend the late, great Alan Wayne Damron. I couldn’t find a recording of his version, but with all due respect to Woody and Pete, Alan’s version is the one I prefer to perform. Thus is the folk tradition.

@janbb

Woody Guthrie actually wrote ‘This Land Is Your Land’ as a sarcastic response to the jingoism and cloying sentimentality of songs like ‘God Bless America’. There are several more radical verses (and Woody was politically radical, especially for his time) that Woody wrote, recorded and often sung when playing the song live, but were left out of the version that was ultimately released. The absence of these verses has largely given people the wrong impression of the song.
————————————————————————————————————-
There was a big high wall there that tried to stop me
Sign was painted, it said “private property”
But on the other side it didn’t say nothing
That side was made for you and me

Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking that freedom highway
Nobody living can ever turn me back
This land was made for you and me

In the squares of the city, in the shadow of a steeple
By the relief office, I’d seen my people
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking
Was this land made for you and me?

@Darth_Algar I know all that. I am a folkie of the old school and a student of radicalism. And Pete sang the first and third verses you quote at the Inauguration if you watch the clip. I know the song has been perverted by others .

But nowhere in any of Woody’s verses does it say “God does not make Junk.”