Is the hot dog a sandwich?

I think we can’t dispute that a hot dog on a bun is a kind of sandwich but since a hot dog can exist on its own sans bun, I don’t think we can say hot dog alone implies a sandwich.

Let’s not split hairs, though we may split rolls for the meat. A piece of meat shaped like a tube cannot make a sandwich.

What would the Earl say?

Let’s get a seance going and ask him.

On the face of it, I think @janbb makes a valid point, but if one delves deeper one could say that a “hot dog” is the sausage-and-bun, but without the bun, it’s just a type of sausage. The bun is essential for it to be a “hot dog”, and therefore a sandwich, without the bun it is just a frankfurter type of sausage.

In fact, the language is telling. You don’t order a hotdog-with-a-bun, the inclusion of bun is implied in the term “hot dog”.
But you do have to specify hot-dog-without-the-bun, thereby proving that it needs the bun to simply be a “hot dog”.

Was that wordy enough?

We have now established that we’re talking about a combination of meat inside bread. We’re off to a good start.

But sandwich meat is flat. Sausages are never flat.

Hamburgers are not flat.

Not the good ones, anyway.

There is a piece of bread horizontal on both the top and the bottom of a hamburger. It’s flat.

You can slice a hotdog and make it flatish.

Only a brute would slice a sausage length-wise.

I am a brute.

Ack!

Slice a hotdog lengthwise. Serve between two pieces of bread. Sandwich.

Hotdog on a bun. Not a sandwich.

Case closed.

Next question. I do not often buy bread so I eat hotdogs wrapped in tortillas, with the requisite accompaniments of tomato, hot peppers, onion, relish, pickle, celery salt, and mustard.

Is that a taco?

No, it is not a taco.

This is getting complicated.

Are we going to allow slicing?

My dog. I can slice it if I want to.

I stand by my assertion that it is the bread that defines it as a sandwich, not the flatness of the sausage. <stamps little foot, firmly>

This is a question of great national import. Future generations will link to Fluther to settle this dispute. Think! Think!

Hey, I thunk! See my first post! I incorporated the nature of language and culture!

But look at it! It doesn’t look like a sandwich. For crying out loud.

Expand your perception. A Pomeranian doesn’t look like a Great Dane but they’re both dogs!

A whale and an octopus both live in the ocean, but neither are fish.

From the tangentially appropriate field of mollusk taxonomy, I see it as a semi-tubular univalve sandwich, unless the bun is broken.

For me this raises another tangent- would a bag of busted buns cost less?

Is there a sadder sight than a broken bun?

Not sure if we need Sartre or Beckett to resolve this.
Don’t make me invoke Neitzche!

(Really, don’t make me, I have strayed way out of my depth here!)

@Brian1946 I have a better question. Why are the number of buns in a package not the same as the number of hot dogs in a package?

Perhaps Laurel and Hardy could help?

Is a Gyro a sandwich? It’s called a gyro sandwich and yet, is not flat. I rest my case.

Alas poor Gyro, I knew him well.

@chyna

I’d say they’re perpetrating that inequality to bust our buns.

Would a sandwich by any other name smell as sweet?

And how do you pronounce “Gyro”? One Greek lady I know here says “hero” another Greek lady says “gyro” (like the scope).

The quality of mustard is not strained,
it droppeth as the gentle rain…...

Would a rose by any other name taste as good?

Hey! Get your own question! Let’s stick to hot dogs here.

Oh @canidmajor you pompous bloviator!

I had a hot dog for lunch. I celebrated the day appropriately.

I am a bloviating buffoon!!

Paltroon!

You pompous bloviating baboon!

“Bloviator” sounds like someone who pilots a blimp.

Or a hot air balloon.

Is ketchup a valid condiment for a hot dog sandwich?

We’re off course, captain.

I hope this is in social.

It’s not a sandwich!

It is!

I had a slice of microwaved pizza. Instead of two year old frozen hot dogs. Tornado watch for Red Deer. Is a calzone or hot pocket a sandwich?

Tis not as deep as a well, nor as dark as a church door,
but twill serve, twill serve…

What can I say? I’m in a Shakesperean mood tonight.

Now pizza is definitely not a sandwich.

The rich and the famous say it’s not a sandwich. We worship celebrities. We must bow before their name recognition.

Et tu, @janbb ?

How flat is flat?

Is a hot dog in a horizontal bun like this a sandwich, whereas a hot dog situated with vertical alignment to the bun’s axis of orientation, like this, not a sandwich?

^We need a mathematician now.

Hath not a hot dog meat,
And hath it not bread,
When you prick it, doth it not shed juice…....

Of course, that’s only for kosher hot dogs!

A hot dot is a sandwich with a wiener and bun. Or a frankfurter.

In my world, anything edible between bread (sliced, roll, bun, or what have you) and it’s a sandwich.

And how are we attempting to define a sandwich (with or without a hot dog)? Are we comparing it with an ideal Platonic sandwich (something that partakes of the form we can think of as sandwichness)?

Are we defining it functionally, in terms of how it’s used, or are we thinking of its composition? Can we pinpoint the exact moment that it goes from being not a sandwich but just a collection of ingredients to having the Gestalt of a sandwich? And how far can it depart from that standard and still be a sandwich? Do we call anything we can sit on a chair just because a chair is something we sit on?

Is an ice cream sandwich a sandwich? How about an Oreo?

And when does it stop being a sandwich? When, for example, the bun and the hot dog don’t come out even, and your last bite is just bread because the hot dog is all gone, is what’s left in your hand still a sandwich or not?

How do you know when you have half a sandwich?

Are we looking for a dictionary definition that places “sandwich” in a certain class and then distinguishes it from other members of its class? Or are we perhaps interested in the common usage of the term, and if so, then common in what population? and during what time period?

(A single dictionary definition doesn’t necessarily constitute an authority. If I were seriously questing after this word, I’d want to see half a dozen, including the OED, Merriam-Webster, and at least one foreign language dictionary; in this case, probably not Latin or Greek, but German would do.)

The more we think about words, the more surprising it is that we can manage to say anything at all.

I suddenly feel as though I have never truly seen a sandwich, but rather have only ever seen the vague images of sandwiches.

It is as if I have spent my whole life facing the table, feasting my eyes upon what I thought were sandwiches, but in actuality the refrigerator was open behind me, casting a bright light over my shoulder, and what I saw were the shadows cast on the table in front of me by the sandwiches resting the refrigerator shelves behind me. As I now stand up and turn around, first the light cast by the open fridge is blinding, but as my eyes adjust, I see things which I can only describe as true sandwiches. I know now what I have seen before were only the flat, imperfect shadows.

To complicate matters, I have heard lore that hot dogs, although ordinarily considered terrestrial creatures, are quite at home in a vast, cheesy sea

It’s a hot dog. A sandwich doesn’t have a full sausage on it. Slices sure, but not a full dog. That and the custom bread, make it a class unto itself.

Unless you’re talking “samiches.” That’s a horse of a different color…..

Beautiful, @Soubresaut. My compliments.

This is why I stick around.

The hotdog is of German descent while the sandwich is English. To be frank, calling them both sandwiches is political correctness and is insulting.

I say its technically a sandwich, just not commonly called one.

A rose by any other name…

I am with the sandwich crowd. What a topic to argue about, but we’re doing a bang up job of it!

I am very happy.

And now, the making of a hand meal that involves anything from the bread family enclosing other stuff, will be a bit of an existential event for me.
Thanks for elevating my future lunches, @Hawaii_Jake. <3

All the world’s a grill,
And all the hot dogs merely sandwiches,
They have their mustards and their relishes…....

A hot dog between the buns is either a sandwich or sodomy.

Well, that just took a weird turn! (But, I suppose, not entirely unexpected!)

Perhaps the erotic implications of the size and shape of the so-called hot dog are what is behind the reluctance to own it as a sandwich? What does Freud say about Vienna sausage?

@janbb, NICE wordplay.

Iambic pentameter even!

I think that the hot dog and all it’s offspring (bratwurst in buns, etc.) rise as a whole above the mere sandwich. They can be a thing sublime (I just had homemade chili cheese dogs without buns the other day and they were delicious!).

Where is @bob_ when you really, really need him? Just like a cop.

@janbb, I’ve never seen you in better form. I hope you can hear the applause.

Great question, @Hawaii_Jake. It’s for this that Fluther was born (in my opinion, although I wasn’t there). You should get the Salt and Pepper Award.

Is salt and pepper ok on hot dog sandwiches?

@Jeruba Would bow deeply from the waist if I had one.

@Jeruba what can I say? Your marvelous discussion of Platonic sandwich forms had a sudden and profound effect on me!

I have been thinking that even if we decide the hotdog is not a sandwich in kind, we may still consider it a sandwich in kin…

The hotdog and hamburger are such ubiquitous barbeque/grill fare, especially as an either/or duo, that I think it fair to call them cuisine cousins.

Additionally, given our own definitions of a sandwich (see articles 525 through 528), a hamburger is indeed a member of the sandwich family.

I think, then, given the hamburger’s allegiance (see above), and given its relation to the hotdog (see farther above), we can in good conscience consider the hotdog a member of the sandwich family—even if our oblong friend seems, admittedly, an odd fit. (I cannot, of course, guarantee that the hotdog’s position in the sandwich family tree would clear it for entry into parks or beaches under possible future picnic basket bans… but that is another matter altogether.)

@Hawaii_Jake It seems to me that in the sense that a hamburger is a sandwich that also a hot dog would be a sandwich. A longish piece of bread and meat. Subway has longish bread with mostly meat inside sandwiches. There are also vegetarian forms of sandwiches.

Only with 2 other dogs.

What is language for if not to differentiate between things? If we are to confuse the cool green of a cucumber sandwich sitting on a plate of the finest china at 3.00pm on a summer’s afternoon on the lawn of an English country garden with a hot dog wrapped in paper and wolfed down somewhere in the Bronx then there is really no hope for civilisation.

IMO a hot dog holds its own classification and is not, technically, a sandwich. A hot dog would only become a sandwich if said wiener was sliced into slices and arranged in sandwich fashion. You could then call it a hot dog sandwich. A pony is not a horse, a duck is not a goose, a mouse is not a rat and a hot dog is not a sandwich. LOL

A pony is, in fact, a horse.

@ragingloli No, it is a pony. Just like miniature horses are horses, not ponies
Different evolution and determined by height and other physical and conformation traits. Same equine family yes, very different in breed and body structure

http://www.fiveoaksridingstables.com/blog/difference-horse-pony/

All right. All right. This question is about hot dogs. All equestrian questions are kindly directed to the “Ask Fluther” button at the top of the screen in order to ask a new question.

Is it still a hot dog if it’s made from pony meat?

@Dutchess_III If hot dogs can be made with beef, chicken, or turkey, as well as vegan, yes.

Maybe it’s the cousin of the sandwich.

Let’s be honest; if you ordered a hot dog and received a sandwich your fury would know no bounds.

If I ordered a hot dog with chilli and it had beans in the chilli I’d be upset.

There are hot dogs and then there are Michigan ‘Red Hots’ !

I got the sauce recipe somewhere, maybe in the safe.

There’s a place around here called Texas Hot Weiners.

some sort of gay brothel?

No, it was Gene’s Michigan Stand in Port Henry, NY

I don’t know about Texas.

Okay..here’s the official low down on the dispute from the Natl. Hot Dog & Sausage Council

www.hot-dog.org/culture/hot-dog-sandwich

P.S. @Hawaii_Jake Since this question is in social a minor, 3 blips, of off topic banter does not constitute felonious derailment.

Texas Hot Weiners, Danbury, CT: http://jksoriginal.com/Restaurant-history.html

I want to go there and get some hot weiners. Everything on the menu looks good.

Love them hot wieners. LOL

I love them big wieners.

^And men are obsessed with sex?~......

When I was a kid and we had hot dogs but no buns, we used bread. That has to be a sandwich!

If it’s not on the appropriate bun, it’s not a hot dog. @canidmajor established that definition early in the thread.

A hot dog on bread is not a hot dog? Or am I misunderstanding?

A hot dog is the dog itself, not the bun,, so a hot dog remains a hot dog regardless of what kind of bread it is served on.

@hawaii_jake. You, sir, are a hot dog snob.

@Coloma Read the thread.

I never actually said “appropriate”, @Hawaii_Jake, the intent was that the pairing of a specific sausage type with a bread product rendered it, specifically, a “hot dog”, and that because it is encased in a bread product it is a sandwich.

@Hawaii_Jake, Earlier today I was engaged in a “singular ‘they’ ” discussion on FB. It was less complex that this discussion. You win!

What’s my prize for winning?

@Hawaii_Jake I did read the thread and I was responding to YOUR comment above mine, about it not being a hot dog if it is not on the appropriate bun. i disagree, a hot dog is the sausage itself, and the bun is the bun. A hot dog in a bun is a hot dog IN a bun.

@hawaii_jake. You win a knuckle sandwich! Lol!

@chyna: but he would not recognize that as a sandwich because it is not flat! HAH!

Damn link was defunct.

But I won! @canidmajor said I won!

AND I AM THE ARBITER OF ALL SUCH THINGS!

I DECIDE THE FATE OF WORLDS!

I AM THE GREATEST OF THE HOT DOGS!!!

canidmajor…get it? Huh? Didja get it??? ;-)

@canidmajor “Look on my works, ye mighty,
and despair.”

<sigh> a sad legacy. “Nothing beside remains…The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

So much for my delusions of divinity. Thanks @janbb. :-P

THIS WHOLE THREAD IS OFF TOPIC!!!

^^ Says the Queen of Derailment!!

If a hotdog falls in the woods, and no one is around, does it make a sound?...

I’m a member of the Wolf family. If a hot dog falls in the woods it doesn’t even hit the ground. I eat it.

I so want a hot dog right now!

Me, too. Kinda want it with a baseball game in front of it.

With ketchup and mustard.

^ Yep, that how I like my doggies.

tmi

@Hawaii_Jake You must of had a Puka Dog on Kauai ! Hot garlic and Mango relish YAH

Is cereal soup?

….....and the hot dog and the bun become one.
Food orgY!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V1HeNN6uoE

Hot dogs contain neither sand nor witch.

Nor dogs.

Why does no one ever starve to death in the desert?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Because of all the sand which is there. It’s better as a verbal joke!

Because they die of thirst first. Drinking your own piss will only get you this far.

Loli! Behave!

Whose piss is it better to drink then?

The piss of a horse with no name.

I once went through the desert on a horse with no name. It felt good to be out if the rain….

Could you remember your name?

Yes, Oscar Myer.

But we digress.

I am remembering the title of a YA book in my library “A Hero Ain’t Nothing but a Sandwich.” Surely we could substitute hot dog for hero in the title and the statement would still be valid.

I rest my case.

Paul Simon?

“You can’t remember your name because there ain’t no one to give you no fame.” I know! I now know it’s wrong, but I didn’t learn that until about 5 years ago. My version is more profound, IMO.

Then the desert turns to sea. Maybe a sand witch swept the desert away with her broom…

THIS just appeared! From The Atlantic no less.

LOL!

Maybe the Earl of Sandwich murdered his cousin the Duke of Wiener to take all the credit for his sandwiches first.

@Tropical_Willie There are hot dogs and then there are Michigan ‘Red Hots’ !

Wait, a “Michigan” dog is a New York thing?

Funny, because a Coney Dog is a Michigan thing.

I am a bona fide Michigander by upbringing and can assure you the only “Michigan” hot dogs are:
1) Koegels dogs from the grocery store you make at home
2) Coney Dogs at a restaurant

And living in Chicago for the past few decades, I can also assure you the the Chicago dog is the enlightened person’s choice.

^ How to you keep your dogs hot in those Michigan winters? Some damn chilly dogs. ;-p

All hot dogs are sandwiches but not all sandwiches are hot dogs.

@Call_Me_Jay Rumor has it a lady moved from Detroit to New York with a recipe for a sauce similar to American Coney Island sauce.

If you put a hot dog in the microwave and then put it on a hotdog bun, is that considered cooking?

^You crack me up @chyna !

@chyna In my house, absolutely yes.

Here ya go. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/647970/majority-surveyed-americans-think-hot-dog-sandwich?fbclid=IwAR1rdzQ0J4jbv1Ry419Ml-1QAe-TxffdliaucpdzsR1bzUw29qSzC0JmBNI

The debate never ends.

I loved rereading this thread. Fluther at its best! Thank you @canidmajor for reviving the Q even though you are wrong and the hot dog is a hot dog, bunned or not, and a separate entity from a sandwich.

An interesting riposte, @janbb, but I will have the last word!!! (For a few minutes, anyway…)

Now I want a hot dog and toast!!

I had a hot dog for lunch. Yummy. :-)

It’s June, the sun sets late after 8pm, and the mosquitos are not out yet.

I get home from work at 7pm, take my lawn chair, charcoal, bag of grilling necessities and a couple of beers to the yard. I cook hot dogs, bratwurst, ribs, or frozen pizza while watching my yellow finch friends feast at my feeder.

Paradise.

It’s National Hot Dog Day, y’all! I will be indulging, later.

They showed a segment on our local news about a cafe near me that sold hot dogs topped with bacon bits and a huge spoonful of Mac and cheese. Not something I would want to eat!

National Hot Dog Day! You know what to do, folks!

Eating a Schnitzel. Because to hell with your fake holidays!

@ragingloli Here ya go. ;-)
https://nationaltoday.com/national-wiener-schnitzel-day/#:~:text=U.S.&text=National%20Wiener%20Schnitzel%20Day%20is,t%20just%20a%20chain%20restaurant.