How can I deal with the stress of constant street harassment and threats from men?

Get a car or use public transport, instead of walking alone down the street.
Another option is to take self-defence lessons.

I think call the police. If it’s happening a lot where you live, maybe the police will walk that beat more often, or especially when this is happening, if it’s happening regularly at a certain time of day. If they don’t respond well, write the police commissioner or your congressman. The police are supposed to keep our streets safe, and being harassed is unacceptable. Don’t downplay this as not being hurt, it’s obviously “hurting” you. You’re afraid, crying, all completely understandable.

Are you practicing “city” walking? Head up, not listening to music, straight back, fast pace.

It sounds like you’re in a not so great corner of the city. If you can move in the future maybe you should. Although, if you work in a place that has a lot of this going on then you still will be dealing wth it.

You say moving is not an option. You’ve written about this before and I think the only answer is to move.to a different area.

People certainly respect women here, what you are describing sounds alien to me but I have not been to NYC since I was a kid. That much stress is not healthy so I’d be planning to make moving an option.

@Sneki2 A car is not an option. Moving is not an option right now.

I carry pepper spray. I can’t not walk alone. I’d be a shut-in. Moving isn’t an option in the immediate near-term, but if our financial situation improves, we likely will.

@JLeslie I do. I walk quickly from point A to point B, move with a purpose and don’t look scared—just bored.

I have height and a body type that seems to get unwanted attention no matter what I wear, how I walk, or what I do. It happens in “better” neighborhoods too but in my neighborhood a little more.

I know it is unfair to have to do this BUT perhaps you should dress down as much as you can. Try not to emphasize your sttong points. Stick to unflattering and baggy clothes, flat shoes, hoods or hats and sunglasses. Keep high heels and fancy accessories in a bag with you if you have to go somewhere well-dressed. Avoid bright lipstick colors etc. In a few words, do not draw more attention to yourself. Try as much as possible to walk with people around you.

I don’t know what you want us to say. We’ve explored this with you before. I believe self-defense classes were suggested. Have you taken any?

Do you have some sort of neighborhood watch? Maybe get something organized.

Move. Leave.

Ask the landlord to end the lease, explaining you have to move for health reasons. If they won’t, just leave.

I agree with what others have suggested. Move. Your mental health and well being are more important than losing a deposit on your place. If you absolutely refuse to move, then take self defense classes and take back your life.

Maybe you should invest in a little legal advice. Pay a competent attorney to review your lease to determine whether there are mitigating factors which will allow you to legally walk away from this area.

Money is only money. You only get one life…..

If all the solutions presented are unappealing, maybe think about it from a different perspective.

What would you suggest a friend do in your situation? What makes the most sense if you take a step back?

I agree with @PullMyFinger
If you can’t handle the neighborhood harassment then your only other option is to try and get out of your lease and move. Or…go buy some monster, scary, attack dog and don’t leave home without him. haha

Try meditation, that always help with stressful situations that are a constant in our lives.

I’m sorry you are going through this. I dated a couple of girls who experienced something similar, although probably not as violent as you have. One used to fight back, screaming back at the men to embarras them. Once the police intervened because she was about to take matters in hew own hands. She told me that this helped her release the stress and frustration this caused her.

The other never (ever) left her house on foot. She would either wait for me to pick her up/drive her anywhere, or take call a taxi. NYC is different because is a very expensive city, however, it may be worth it in the long run. Uber your life away.

I visited NYC in April of this year to visit my daughter. I witnessed the harassment she endured. It was minimal, I’m sure, because she was with me, but there were a few occasions. The harassment was real and should not be brushed off lightly.

To answer the OP, I recommend therapy to obtain more coping skills and meditation as mentioned by @flameboi

I’m sorry for both this reality and the various point-missing (and worse) comments in this thread. Fluther doesn’t seem to be the best forum for this question.

NYC is unique (in the U.S. at least) in its intensity of street harassment. Like you I’ve experienced less of it in every other major city I’ve spent time in. I think you’re right about it being an expression of powerlessness, but in NYC, the culture around how to express that powerlessness has built up in this way.

I did find neighborhoods with much less harassment culture. They’re not very central, but I chose increased commute time in exchange for being able to walk home without the near guarantee of harassment. Head out into Queens (along the express lines) and there’s very peaceful, very affordable housing. Staten Island was the closest to harassment-free (and remarkably affordable), but you need to be close to the ferry or train for ease of commuting. Some of Brooklyn has a much better harassment culture, such as Bay Ridge and if you can afford them certainly Carroll Gardens / Cobble Hill.

@marmoset Unless you’re a returning user, we have had multiple, multiple discussions on this issue. It is a good place to ask this question.

I am not sure what to advise, though. I’ve gone through the harassment in my life. It’s annoying as hell, and sometimes down right scary. I am distressed that it would be suggested that perhaps @LeavesNoTrace is somehow bringing it on herself, and that she should be more careful of how she dresses. That’s bullshit. I have always dressed conservatively, down playing my best features for that very reason, but it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference. I got harassed when I was out for a walk…and I was 8 months pregnant! I’m sure those super loose maternity clothes were all revealing and sexy and shit (this was in the 80’s when highlighting your pregnancy with tight, stretchy clothes would be considered tacky.)

I also get distressed when I hear people advise her to take self defense courses. If she has casual training I promise you, she could be taken down in a heart beat by any larger, much more aggressive male. Especially if others join in. Perhaps being a black belt would make a difference, but that requires rigorous training.

Why isn’t moving an option @LeavesNoTrace?

I’m in NYC about once a year for 30 years now, and I’m rarely harassed. I don’t question what has happened to the OP, but all these other posts about NYC I find surprising. I was catcalled and followed much more in other cities, like when I lived in Memphis. When I’m in NYC I’m in Manhattan though, I think the OP is in a different borrough, I’m not sure.

You aren’t in the same situation @JLeslie. You can’t possibly compare your occasional visit with her living there.

My sister and aunt live there. I’m not comparing to the OP. I believe her.

I think she should move. Or, report it to the police to ask for more police coverage.

Therapy and self defense is fine, but being in that situation constantly is just simply unacceptable. I’m not going to tell her to learn how to deal with it better, because I can’t imagine dealing with that all the time, it’s awful and scary.

I’ll ask again: Why isn’t moving an option @LeavesNoTrace?

This is a tough question to answer, as noted by several others, because it’s somewhat ludicrous to tell someone to “toughen up” – as if that’s advice that many adults can even follow! – and the OP itself already addressed the impracticality of moving, etc. Yes, you “can do” that, but it’s as impractical even after all the advice to do it as it was when you said in nearly so many words “this is impractical”.

And counseling, therapy, meditation, while they may be moderately workable coping strategies, can only go so far.

But maybe there’s one thing that you can do even before therapy, meditation and counseling. Even before self-defense classes (which, again, only go so far and don’t deal with the non physical threats). That’s a response that comes after annoyance, harassment and general nastiness has crossed a threshold – as your current prosecution demonstrates that it did on at least one occasion. And of course, once you start self-defense moves of some kind, then you have, in fact, also escalated your risk level somewhat by the simple fact of engagement. That is, you could inadvertently turn “a mugging” into “a killing” if your aggressive self defense was insufficient. So that’s certainly worth consideration if you do go down that road.

Like I said, a tough question.

But there is one thing in your opening and top level “topic question” that I want to address, and that you might do well to consider. That is, Harassment ≠ Threat.

Harassment can obviously progress to some kind of threat. But if you can learn to dissociate the two kinds of nastiness, one of them is NOT a threat, at least, not yet.

It may not be much more helpful to try to learn this in some academic, ivory-tower manner… but it’s worth a try. If you can resolve in your own mind that harassment, no matter how rude or badly-intended, no matter how loud or repulsive, is “not necessarily” a threat, that might help you to manage the stress better. I would not for a minute suggest that you lower your guard! All I’m saying is that by learning to distinguish between the “annoying harassment” and the “actual or likely threat” and somehow self-modifying your emotional response, you could at least start to minimize your own feeling of insecurity and stress for the majority of incidents.

It’s scary and threatening to us @CWOTUS, no matter what your opinion is.

Hi All,

Thanks for your responses.

@CWOTUS Street harassment I can and do brush off as a minor annoyance and I don’t engage with harassers. It’s the behaviors that are specifically threatening and dangerous that get to me.

@Dutchess_III We are considering breaking the lease but will have to talk about it some more.

As @marmoset mentioned, we are talking about Astoria Queens. I lived there for a couple of years and loved it. It was very diverse, safe, family-oriented and convenient. However, my BF has resisted this conversation because he doesn’t want to leave Manhattan. He’s starting to come around to it since he’s seeing the effect it’s having on me and how unsafe I feel.

@JLeslie Harassment is a near constant problem in NYC and most of my female friends deal with it. It can happen in any neighborhood because it’s not like they build walls separating them, but it seems to happen more in certain ones. I’m very tall, ethnically ambiguous and curvy, and this certainly draws attention no matter what I wear—and I dress pretty modestly. I even stopped wearing heels years ago to make me faster on my feet.

As @flamboi and @Hawaii_Jake mentioned, I am seeing a counselor and trying to find coping mechanisms, but it’s still hard. Our mayor doesn’t believe in law enforcement and our cops can’t seem to find the balance between excessive force and over-policing and complete lawlessness. We’ve now seemingly swung toward the latter and it’s empowering certain people to be very bold with how they treat women.

TLDR: We’re thinking about moving but it won’t happen overnight.

Ditto what @Dutchess_III said. Threatening to us. We can’t read the mind of the person harrassing us. The OP has been groped, followed, that’s more than threatening.

Edit: Not wearing heals to be able to get away is how I was raised. I would think you can hide your curves, but for some men it doesn’t matter anyway, they harass females period.

This question makes me glad I live in the country where the only thing that harasses me are the horses whinnying for their breakfast. haha

@JLeslie You can’t hide an ass my size on a 6ft frame. I’m thinking about cutting my dark hair off and getting brown contacts to be less visually “striking” but I supplement my income as a curve model and have a brand contract. My agent would drop me if I chopped my hair.

I liked @JLeslie‘s suggestion of seeing if the police can have more of a visible presence in the neighborhood. I don’t know how differently it works in the city than where I live. The police might simply be stretched too thin or focused elsewhere, or maybe they don’t have a great rapport with the people in the area, or maybe they just wouldn’t be able to do much in this case, etc. I’m not sure, you know better. But where I live, at least, people are able to request increased police presence for any number of reasons, and the police departments do what they can to oblige. (I also feel like being visible and engaged in the community is something they should be doing if they’re not already—because I feel establishing relationships between civilians and policemen could go a long way to improving trust between the two groups across the country… but that’s a different topic [edit: and I know I’m oversimplifying that issue a bit].)

Just reread your question and “my hair is falling out” were you being literal?

Don’t cut your hair.

Also, if it’s falling out, have you had your thyroid tested? Thyroid and iron.

I was thinking thyroid too.

@ARE_you_kidding_me My thyroid is fine. It’s only been the past couple of weeks since the assault that my hair has started falling out. It’s not noticeably thinning but I’m collecting more from my shower every day.

We’re going to the country this weekend and are going to work remotely for the week. That will hopefully help me a bit—a change of scene.

Yes. In the meantime, talk to your land lord, ask if you can find someone to take over your lease. Or maybe he or she will just show compassion and let you out early.

We’ve had people advertise an apartment themselves on Craigslist, and THEN called and to say, “We’d like to break our lease, and we have some people who would like to take the place.” Easy peasy.

Depends on the ease of finding someone and the landlord’s disposition of course, but it’s an idea.

Take martial arts and thump the next guy who comes after you. You can hire a body guard for small amounts of time in the worse neighbourhoods, until you can move away. You can host a take back the night march. You can take the rare case and sue the city, NYC, for criminal indifference, or at least inform the media.

@LeavesNoTrace: Sometimes if you can find someone to take over the apartment immediately after you move out (which shouldn’t be a problem in NYC as apartments are in high demand), the landlord might not penalize you if you break the lease.

I’m think maybe she doesn’t want to move. Is that the case @LeavesNoTrace?

I agree with @jca that if you find a tenant to replace you the landlord might be accommodating. Also, you might be able to sublease.

@LeavesNoTrace It seems she does not want to move. For every suggested solution she has a reason she can’t do that.

@LeavesNoTrace: Where in the city do you live? My sister, who is 30, just moved out of the city after living there since college graduation. She lived in the village (nice part of the village) and she is incredibly beautiful. She probably had some comments from men but never reported the type of harassment you are receiving. I’m just curious what neighborhood you live in.

Neighborhood is certainly important.

For many years our daughter lived in Brooklyn and worked in Manhattan. She is blonde, and very pretty.

The only ‘street comments’ that she ever got (or will tell me about, anyway) were from one of a group of young black guys standing on a corner. On more than one occasion, one of them would say…

“Hey, dere, Snowflake”.....which is harmless and kind of amusing, if you ask me…..

No it’s not. It’s not the least bit amusing.

What a shock….

It really isn’t amusing. If you know the men well and feel safe, then maybe you can find it amusing, but a random guy on the street? Or, a group of men? There are crazy people out there. Women get hurt every day. It’s not funny. The OP is traumatized. There are criminal charges filed. Criminal charges mean the state agrees that likely a crime happened.

@PullMyFinger in what way is it amusing? Please mansplain this to us silly women (keeping in mind that most of us have been sexually attacked to a greater or lesser degree in our lives.)

Well, first of all, this is New York City (not Mayberry RFD). If that is the only comment that a woman receives during the course of a day, she will smile to herself and sleep just fine that night.

And for what it’s worth, my daughter found it pretty amusing also.

So some of us need to lighten-up a little here….and some of us don’t…...

Mansplained indeed.

I don’t get it. What does NYC or Mayberry have to do with it?

Do you think @LeavesNoTrace Is silly to be upset over it? Should she feel flattered maybe?

@JLeslie To Andy and Barney, jaywalking is a major crime, an arrest-worthy offense, which is reported in the local paper. In Manhattan, not so much (everything is relative).

@Dutchess III Please don’t put words in my mouth, or make ridiculous assumptions. I am only relating that if someone chooses to live in New York City, things are going to be a whole lot different than they were back on the farm.

My daughter understood this going in, so let it roll off her back, making an effort to keep it in perspective, at times even find it amusing.

Remember, the young woman who asked the question still chooses to remain living there.

Sometimes, you play in the rain…..you get wet…..

You are clueless. I was raised in a small town. You really think men there are somehow different there? What about the man, my father’s age who insisted on driving me home one night after I babysat his kids, even though I lived a block away, then pulled the car over and started grabbing me? I was 13 or 14 years old. We LIVED in the country.

If your daughter gets raped @PullMyFinger are you just going to shrug your shoulders and say “Well that’s what you get for playing in the rain. It’s your own fault.”?

For pullmyfinger: http://www.consented.ca/myths/sexual-harassment-is-flattering/

You are blaming the victim for living where she gets harassed. That’s fucked up. This type of harassment is everywhere and it is not acceptable.

I think what @PullMyFinger is saying is pick your poison. A slightly off the cuff remark is not even close to major harassment or potential attack. Men catcalling women is as old as time and while it can be annoying it also needs to be kept in perspective. @Dutchess_III Well sure, creeps are everywhere but the large population of a very large city is going to lend itself to more overt incidents in terms of males potentially making remarks, crude or otherwise to a woman.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not a fan of males making crude remarks or harassing women, obviously, but a whistle or relatively harmless remark should just be ignored even if it’s annoying and off putting. A slightly off color remark is not a prelude to rape in most instances.

@Dutchess_III Sorry about your “man who drove me home” story. Yes, bad people can be everywhere, but statistically, choosing to live in a large city opens the person who made that choice up to passing by someone like that guy on the street several times a day. Surely you must get that.

And some of you are confusing relatively harmless wordplay on the street with ‘Jack The Ripper’ intentions.

And I’m not ‘blaming’ anyone, except to say that these common events in a big city should be apparent to anyone before they move there. It isn’t going to change.

And if these things are severe enough to warrant solicitations of help on some internet site, maybe it’s time to move….

P.S. If any of you seriously equate low-level cat-calling to potential rape, you would be wise to stay right where you are…..

You never know when it could turn ugly especially if a guy decides he’s been rejected. Guy at a party when I was in High School threw a full can of beer at me when I deflected his advances.

@djbabybokchoy I don’t think anybody is blaming the victim, just stating facts. If you find an area too high crime, too sexually harassing, too hot, too cold, too whatever, then it is obvious that leaving said area would be your highest choice. Taking action not complaining endlessly. If I don’t want to be swarmed by Mosquitos I am not going to live in a swamp.

If you can’t change the source of the problem then you change your environment. That is not victim blaming. Harassment is not acceptable but it is what it is and if one lives in a large city full of various demographics of humanity you are going to encounter things you do not like.

To a certain extent that’s true @Coloma. In Leaves case I agree she should move. But no woman should ever have to feel threatened for no reason other than she’s a female.
I’ve heard a couple of Jellies from other countries say they don’t encounter that behavior where the live. What are we doing wrong except still blaming women for going outside?

@PullMyFinger You contradicted yourself. First you say “It’s the only thing she heard all day,” then say it’s much more common in the city. Which is it?

There is one very fair point about “blaming the victim”, as abhorrent as that sounds on its face. (After all, victims don’t choose to become victims. They don’t generally “invite” attacks in any explicit sense. They don’t want to be hurt or victimized.) @Coloma touched on it and addressed it somewhat indirectly.

That point is that it is vital to continually monitor and review one’s circumstances and living arrangements for changes in the situation and to change one’s own behavior or situation accordingly. That sounds simplistic, and maybe for most of us it is: who actively reviews crime statistics for their area? Who decides to move, maybe even to change employment, just because of a perception – however strongly felt – that something has changed to an intolerable degree? (Consider the number of people who outright promised that they would leave the country outright if the current President were elected. How many have actually followed through?)

To illustrate: Years ago, in my current neighborhood, I never used to lock my car doors when I left the car in the driveway during the day. It’s much more convenient, if I’m going to be using the car or even just getting something out of it later in the day, to simply leave it unlocked, and then just lock it at night before I go to bed. And the neighborhood was perfectly safe; nothing ever happens here. Same with the house. During the day while I was at home the door was always unlocked. About eight years ago my car was entered in the daytime while I was at home napping one afternoon – with the door to the house unlocked, as well! – and some property was stolen. I don’t blame myself for the theft, but I have changed my ways: I lock the car and the house all of the time now. If I leave the driveway, then the car is locked. If I pass through the kitchen, then the house is locked (sometimes even if I’m going to be staying in the kitchen).

Recently I learned that one of my neighbors had his car stolen while he was warming it up in the driveway last winter. Now I’m considering whether – because of that fact – it might actually be time to sell out and move on. I didn’t have to endure a theft or loss (and I will definitely never let the car warm up in the driveway on a cold day!), but I do have to pay attention to what’s going on and consider my actions in response.

New York City has been on another of its periodic downward spirals. I won’t get into the political reasons for that, though that’s certainly worth another discussion elsewhere – and is discussed elsewhere at great length . Some neighborhoods will be more susceptible to crime than others, and some residents more frequently targeted. Again, this is not blaming the victims, but stating facts that should be perfectly obvious.

Those potential victims have to look out for the changes, be alert to them, and make changes in their own behaviors to account for the increased risk, threat and unpleasantness. It might help to be more active in politics in ways that could have long-term positive effects, but that doesn’t help much on a day-to-day basis.

“Moving away” is simply the easiest suggestion to make to avoid these kinds of problems in a deteriorating environment, but that’s not at all the only response. Others are to travel in groups or with a bodyguard, to travel at times of the day or night that avoid loiterers (although there may be a risk of worse criminals at other times, and that has to be recognized, too), to travel with explicit, improvised or implied weapons, whether that’s strictly legal or not for the jurisdiction, to change the travel routes, to befriend the harassers (it’s an actual technique that might work for some people), or even to be a more vicious predator than the attacker / harasser (or to appear to be).

The point is that if crime and harassment victims don’t even notice the environment that they’re in until it’s “too late” – then they will be victims of the crimes that inevitably occur. Maybe we can’t “blame them” for the crime, but we can judge that they did not pay sufficient attention to the changes that were occurring, and because of that did not even know about or attempt coping strategies. If they know of the changes around themselves, as @LeavesNoTrace has expressed she does know, but refuse to take any action at all, whether out of pride, stubbornness, inconvenience or perceived cost, then they will still be victims… as a result of choices that they have made.

Ultimately, we are all responsible for whatever situation we find ourselves in, even if that seems unfair or uncomfortable.

Yeah. Yes and no. I should not have accepted that ride from my Dad’s friend. It seemed suspicious to begin with. But I was just a kid. Learned to trust my intuition after that.
I was harassed in school. Should I have told my parents we needed to move? Or was it my own fault for being a good looking female?
You can’t ever get away from it ompletely.

@Dutchess_III Not your fault the babysitting dad was a creep but lesson learned. If you then ignored it and accepted a ride with him again it would be foolish and potentially asking for trouble. Being harassed as a kid at school might merit moving yes, depending on the severity of it but if you didn’t tell your parents they couldn’t make a decision as how to handle it. I was cat called and had plenty of unsolicited attention in my life too, but unless the person was really crossing a line I just shrugged it off and moved on. My point was that while being catcalled can be unnerving a low level of that behavior doesn’t make someone a rapist it just makes them a rather uncouth specimen of the male species.

@Dutchess_III There is no contradiction at all. I’m surprised that it needs explaining, but….. it’s very likely that it will be the only thing that one particular woman hears all day. “Much more common in the city” relates to the thousands of comments thrown around in any big city all day, every day, not just at that one woman

Are you distracted by ‘The Price Is Right’ or something while reading this thread ??

When in New York, are you prepared to go find a cop every time some smart-ass on the street throws a comment in your direction ? Good luck with that.

The cop will have big trouble trying to keep a straight face. You demand to go to the Precinct and talk to his supervisor. The supervisor and everyone within hearing distance will laugh you out of town.

And on your way home, try to remember that the cops were not the “clueless” ones in this highly-important, life-threatening scenario….

Sorry but, if you talk to self defense instructors I bet they tell women to trust their gut, and not put themselves into a situation that could be dangerous. That means not going down the street if they see someone up ahead that worries them, or not getting into an elevator with a man, or whatever else you want to deem paranoid. It also includes being on alert when men are catcalling.

NYC you would think people would take catcalling more seriously. Wouldn’t the usual assumption be the city has more dangerous people?? Not that I think that, but I just mean I would think that’s the common assumption.

You don’t know which guy will be the rapist, slice your face, grab your ass, or steal your purse.

There is no hope if the message to boys is it’s funny or harmless to catcall a woman. The only way this changes is if parents are telling their boys that catcalling behavior is unacceptable. Either they do it from a place of understanding, or eventually maybe it will be seen as at least a misdemeanor, and parents will tell their boys so they don’t get arrested.

It floors me that men don’t see certain situations like I do. In college, while on break my BF came to visit me. We went into Wichita. Then he wanted to go on a walk by the river. It was late at night and the river walk was pretty deserted. I said that wasn’t a good idea. When he asked why and I told him he dismissed me with a casual ‘Oh I’ll protect you!”
We went and I was extremely nervous. He honestly didn’t understand what I was afraid of.

Several years ago Rick and I were in KC at a club that was in walking distance from our hotel. Walking back he kept taking short cuts through allies. I was scared shitless.

Not long ago I had a guy say to me, in genuine astonishing “You’re saying you don’t enjoy a well placed grope??”

A person who is harassed is not responsible for the harassment. It’s absurd to suggest otherwise.

No, but…the point is, if you are being subjected to something you find distasteful then it is your responsibility to figure out how to get away from it or avoid it in the future. Being a victim does not mean remaining a victim.

In @LeavesNoTrace‘s situation the answer is quite obvious.

IRL, though, no matter how careful you are they’ll find a way to get to you, and you know it @Coloma. Just going to the mall was an ordeal for me. Should I have never gone to the mall? I was hit on at the grocery store a few times. Should I have not ever gone to the grocery store?
I became exceedingly careful, but it didn’t stop.

I don’t think Schwarzenegger is doing much these days.

Maybe you could hire him to walk around with you everywhere…..

What?

You’re kidding, right ??

Sorry, my ‘Explaining obvious things’ quota has already been exceeded for today….

Cops are useless, and moving takes time.

My advice is to get scary-looking friends, and have them come by at random times.

Won’t save you from the randos, but any regulars in the area will learn who not to fuck with pretty quickly.

Hey pullmyfinger, your rude comments towards Dutchess III are not charming. You are making yourself look like an ass. How about having a conversation without insulting her intelligence? It’s not hard to do.

I’m not kidding. That was the most useless thing anyone has said to me. It’s men like YOU, who perpetuate that it’s the woman’s problem and the woman’s fault, and absolve fellow men of any of the responsibility for their actions.
It IS our problem, but it’s men like you who create the problem. I should be able to go to the damn store, or walk down the street without getting screamed at, or having men turn around and drive by again, or following me.

@PullMyFinger, you are so out of line here I don’t even know where to start. I’ll let you know though that by choosing to make New York my home, I most certainly did not sign a consent form agreeing to be sexually assaulted by strangers at will. I may move to a new apartment but I won’t allow these creeps and cowards to drive me from the city I love, have human connections in, and work in.

Secondly, there is a BIG difference between unwanted comments in passing (which are problematic but I easily tune out) and going as far as to pursue or grope without their consent. I’m not some hypersensitive little ninny, nor am I some naïve babe in the woods. I have lived here for seven years. My entire adult life. I’m not Anne of Green Gable’s so you should adjust your tone accordingly with that mansplaining. Same goes for how you’re talking to @Dutchess_III

I will also let you know that my attacker may go to jail. What he did was a crime. A sexual crime. Whether you take it seriously or not.

And yes, I understand the over arcing advice in this thread is to move. My partner and I are talking about it but it won’t happen overnight. Our landlord is a real stickler but we are going to be on the lookout for new places and strategizing ways to make it work.

Let us know.

No one should be driven from their home because of rotten behavior by other people.

@Dutchess_III Yes, we can’t never leave home because we might encounter a jackass out there, whether that is a jerky guy or a bad driver or a rude clerk but…mature people learn to ignore, cope or stand up and put the jerk in their place. It’s not a perfect world and short of serious assault like what @LeavesNoTrace is dealing with, well…it’s up to women to not let it get to them. Pick your battles you know. A serious encounter you call the cops, some little weenie dude saying something you find offensive, just move on.

@djbabybokchoy I can see that you are pretty new here. Give it time. There is a pretty good chance that you might figure it out.

Regarding some of the dim-bulb rocket scientists on this site….....I think the less said, the better…..

@Dutchess_III Trust me, here…..almost anything anyone says which does not line-up with your very odd but self-important life-view (or that you “don’t understand”) is going to be useless to you….

And you might want to consider the possibility that all of these men who are “lusting” after you at every turn are just guys going about their lives, and have no idea that you even exist….

I was referring to @LeavesNoTrace‘s situation @Coloma. I didn’t freak out over the non stop cat calls. I learned to ignore them. But sometimes it just turns ugly without warning.

@Dutchess_III Got’cha.

When you’re young, say, 12, 13, 14, it’s really unnerving. You don’t know what is happening or why. Then you start learning which situations to avoid, and just thank god you were able to get out of whatever situation you found yourself in.

Never assume pullmyfinger. Never assume. It’s quite possible I’ve been here longer then you.

@djbabybokchoy Well…since nobody knows who you were originally, assumptions of being a new member are not off base.

The bottom line is I do not think @PullMyFinger was trying to be a dick and he certainly is not insinuating women being seriously accosted by men is okay, only that a passing remark that is not threatening isn’t some unforgivable rapist behavior.

I am shocked at what you are describing and I am sorry this is happening to you and others that live in NYC?
Could someone start a group whereby you approach the Mayor? This needs to end. It’s all very well to say meditate etc., but this behaviour needs to end. More police and fines hit them where it hurts. So unacceptable.
In the meantime, there are some really good answers here. Perhaps get doctors note getting out of the lease? Also, do try the stress techniques some mentioned as you sound as though you are really suffering from stress symptoms.

@LeavesNoTrace I am sorry this has deteriorated to this nonsense. I am very sorry for your plight. I do wish you well and hope you stay safe. Hugs.

It’s come to this because some men want to dismiss our concerns and explain that we should be giggling and flattered instead.

I agree with @CWOTUS. Of course you shouldn’t have to move away, but you might have to.

If, like @CWOTUS, my neighborhood was beset by some crime (theft, etc.), I would evaluate was there something I did to invite this (leaving door unlocked) or is the neighborhood changing in such a way that I need to reconsider things?

I remember two winters ago in NYC, (the evening news I see is from NYC as I live not far). At least once a week there’d be a random attack. People getting knifed, people getting their faces slashed, people getting kicked and their phones stolen. I realize it’s not easy for everyone to just move when things happen, but if those things were happening near me, I’d see what I could do to get out of Dodge.

One of the ladies at work said she was receiving cat calls in the parking garage near my job. She came in and told the cop. It’s not the cop’s territory (he’s a county cop, this is a city garage). The reality is, by the time he goes out there, if he did go, or if a city cop came, the guys would be gone. They may deny doing it. It’s a lot of trouble for a cop and especially in NYC, they have terrible crimes being committed. I’m not saying what @LeavesNoTrace is experiencing is not awful, but on the scale of things cops experience, it’s minor. Unless there’s actual touching going on (when she was groped), cat calls are probably not illegal.

@LeavesNoTrace: I’m still curious what neighborhood you live in.

@jca it’s happening on the street not in her home.

Ive had to fight for my life from bulllies , mostly men, ever since I was 4. It stopped when I got 6’5” when I was 15. I undetstand how frustrating it is wondering which random asshole is going to pick a fight with me. Being tall has helped maybe you can make a similar change to scare off people. Now the worst I have to deal with is aggressive pandhanlers. Maybe getting a scary temporary tattoo on your body could work.

How could she make a similar change @RedDeerGuy1? You certainly didn’t control yours.

@Dutchess_III Bulk up or get a temporary tattoo. Military fatigues or whatever. Taking martial arts would be a start. I changed my height by eating more healthy food when I had my growth spurt. She could get a Sarah Connor attitude and scare off men. Other than that I don’t think one can change anything, except going to the media and educating the public on what is harassment.

@Dutchess_III I can’t think of anything, except going to the media and educating the public on what is harassment. Flagged my previous answer. Maybe respect for women can be taught in school.

@jca Upper Manhattan

Sorry I will stop writing myself deeper.

I’m usually in lower Manhattan when I’m there. Sometimes midtown (near Bloomingdales) or Chelsea area.

Lol @RedDeerGuy1!

I wish it could be taught in school @RedDeerGuy1. Unfortunately the the things kids learn at home trumps things they learn at home.

I’d like to know what he thinks I might figure out over time Coloma. Is he insinuating that his rude behavior towards Dutchess III is justifiable? Is that what I’ll figure out over time? She deserves it? He isn’t to blame for his rude behavior?

@Dutchess_III: I understand the harassment is happening on the street. I don’t understand your comment.

@LeavesNoTrace: Is that Inwood?

I was responding to your sentence, I would evaluate was there something I did to invite this (like) leaving door unlocked. @jca.
I would also argue that leaving the door unlocked may not be wise, but it’s certainly not an “invitation”

@jca Obviously, we lock our doors, even when we’re home and especially when we sleep at night—including the balcony door even though we’re on the top floor of our building. We are getting far afield in this conversation, and I’m a little annoyed how many commenters imply I must be doing something to provoke male sexual aggression.

@JLeslie Those areas are mostly dedicated to commerce and don’t have as many residences or if they are, they are doorman apartments. They probably don’t have a lot of homeless shelters or housing projects either—although you’d be surprised where they pop up sometimes. Each zip code is required to have a certain amount of them but where I live has an unfair concentration, and it’s something that even long-time residents of the neighborhood have been protesting for years.

If you read local NYC news you’ll see that street assaults and sex crimes happen everywhere. This summer, two women walking along 1st Ave on the Upper East side were groped by a shelter resident and had feces smeared on them. Earlier this year, a woman waiting for a train at 14th St. was groped and shoved onto the train tracks. They usually target attractive young women but a 50-something grandmother was also gang raped by teens in Jamaica Queens on her way home from CHURCH a couple of weeks ago.

It’s sickening and nobody is immune. (That said, in a city of 8 million+ it’s pretty much a numbers game and the city remains statistically pretty safe.)

Today is my attacker’s first hearing since his arraignment, and my BF is at the courthouse as my attorney (it wouldn’t be wise for me to be present but he’ll brief me after). The ADA believes me and is recommending jail time. I also have an order of protection against him and any third parties he may deputize to harass me for reporting his crime.

Just as a reminder, this was not a thread about guys saying “hey baby” to me on the street.

@LeavesNoTrace I am very sorry this is happening to you and to others.

It’s not a thread about hey baby, but it’s upsetting that some people on the thread don’t understand that hey baby is scary because we never know when hey baby will turn into an actual physical attack.

Let us know what happens in court.

If the area is that bad, again I believe you, my sister used to be sent to the projects sometimes for work and she was a target and I wanted her to refuse, then I hope you either look into creating a neighborhood watch, try to get the cops to increase their patrol, or move.

@JLeslie @janbb Thank you. And yes, I agree, street harassment really grinds women down.
If you give a snarky reply, you’re “provoking” but if you ignore it, sometimes they will also get angry and follow you. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. I get it even in the dead of winter with a puffy parka and boots.

While guys who work in finance and wear suits can be the worst sort of creeps (and equally dangerous), most of the bad street harassment I’ve gotten has been from low-income or no-income guys with no access to legitimate power in their lives. Intimidating and humilating random women is the only way they can feel like men—especially if they have an audience of other males.

I almost feel bad that my assailant will likely be incarcerated (Rikers is terrible) because I think they really need help. But they are dangerous and the ADA doesn’t think they will be responsive to a counseling program. The way that creep laughed in my face after he assaulted me also tells me very clearly what kind of person he is.

I’m not allowed to know too much right now because it will taint the case and I may have to testify in court. Anecdotally, I heard from the cops who arrested him and from people who witnessed the assault, that he’s a known drug addict and menaces the neighborhood.

Poor girl. Hey Baby, let us know what the outcome is. And above all let us know when you MOVE.

@Dutchess111 and @leavesnotrace: my comment about leaving the door open was in reference to @CWOTUS, as I specified in the comment.

I dunno…I’m a women and I don’t find find a ” hey baby” to be over the top, out of line. I see it as a bit crass but again, not something my mind would automatically equate with a potential assault.

Oh. Sry @jca. Misunderstanding. I’d blame it on you, but it was my fault!

@Coloma It also depends on the circumstances surrounding it. In a crowded mall “Hey Baby!” wouldn’t be threatening, just annoying.
Walking down the street, alone, at night, and a car full of guys rolls by really slowly, yelling “Hey Baby!“out the window, is definitely threatening.
When I was in college and didn’t have a car, I went to a party at someone’s house, maybe a 20 minutes walk on foot from my dorm.
When I left to go home I accidentally turned the wrong way and walked about 2 miles the opposite direction. I wasn’t very familiar with the town since I didn’t drive any where.
Not long after I left the house, out of now where, a German Shepherd joined me out. I told him to go home, but…he’s German. Didn’t speak English. I was kind of relieved, actually. As you can imagine I was pretty damn nervous, and he kept me company. Sometimes he’d run off, but if I yelled, “Hey dog!” he’d be back instantly.
So, there I was, walking, walking, walking, at night, alone…in the wrong direction.
Suddenly a car full of guys went by, whistling, cat calling. Then they stopped and started to back up.
I was terrified. I said, “Hey dog!” and he came bounding over, and stood up and put his paws on my chest.
The guys took off. That dog from no where quite possibly saved my life.

@Dutchess_III Well of course, there are degrees within degrees, all I am attempting to relate is that there is a HUGE difference between a mild comment and major harassment. A guy that says ” Hey baby” in passing is not the same as being followed for blocks or trolled by a car full of guys. 75 years ago men were still saying ” Hey Doll” to women in passing. Nothing new, but again, big difference between a passing remark and major harassment or groping.

But, as @JLeslie pointed out, it can turn threatening in a heart beat. I mean, you don’t know what is in some strange guy’s mind. They could be totally off their rocker. If you give a “witty” response they could see it as a come on and escalate. If you ignore them they could see it as rejection and escalate. It’s always a tricky land mine to maneuver. You just never know.

@Dutchess_III True. Sometimes it goes from “Hey sexy” to “I’ll fucking kill you, bitch.” in 3.5. Plus on a day when I have a lot of errands to run I may get cat called literally dozens of time within hours. It’s exhausting and makes me self-conscious.

Our genders or our “assets” should not make us targets for harassment.

And you just don’t know. Anybody see anything wrong with a guy asking a girl to dance? Anything wrong with a girl saying “No, thanks.”? Of course not. Well, my Dad had taken my sister and I to an upscale night club one Saturday night. (This was after he and Mom divorced.) Dad and I were both gone from the table at the moment when a guy came up and asked my sister to dance. She politely declined, as she’d done a hundred times before (she was beautiful.)
Well, this guy got right up on her and snarled “You BITCH!” right in her face. Frightened the shit out of her. What did she do wrong?

I’m going to put the shoe on the other foot and ask the guys how they would feel: Let’s assume you’re all straight males stuck in a population dominated by gay men, all of whom are much larger, stronger, and more aggressive than you. Would you get a chuckle out of some strange guy hollering, “Hey sexy! I want a closer look at that sexy package of yours!”
Or, “Oh, you’re so hot! You know you want it as much as I do so come on over here!”
Or, coming up on you and thrusting his hands between your legs to grab you for a quick feel.
Or even something as “harmless” as, “Mmm, mmm, mmm! Would you look at that!” as they look you up and down, mentally undressing you.
Or 4 of them in a car and they keep circling the block, and slowing down when they get along side of you saying, “Hey baby! Want to take a ride?”
Would it make you uncomfortable to have men making those kinds of comments to you, and looking at you that way?

@Dutchess_III They would pee their pants, that’s what they would do.

That “hey baby” stuff is somewhat cultural I think. If I saw my son do it I would lecture him. He also would not be witnessing his dad doing any such thing, so he wouldn’t be learning it at home at least.

My aunt was attacked in NYC back in the 70’s. Crime was much higher back then in the city. In her office building by a middle aged, nice looking, clean cut, Caucasian (European white) man dressed in a sweat outfit like people used to wear back then. He got on the elevator with her, it was very early, before business hours. When she stepped off the elevator he did too, and then attacked her. Would it have been rude or paranoid if my aunt had stepped off the elevator before the doors closed, or if she had told him to go ahead she would take the next elevator? Who gives a shit. Women can be as paranoid as they want about these things in my opinion.

I don’t think any level of paranoia is good. Caution yes, paranoia no.
I live in rattlesnake land over here. I am cautious but not paranoid.

I keep my eyes open but don’t go outside everyday in fear that I might encounter a snake.
Lots of rattlesnakes in the west and lots of crime in big cities, goes with the territory. Keep your eyes open, be aware of your surroundings but don’t live in fear.

She didn’t mean “paranoid” in an intense way. She meant very cautious. We don’t live in fear, 24/7. Only when we find ourselves in fearful situations.

Update: He pled guilty, got two months in jail, and has to abide by the protective order. Neither he nor any third parties are to harass me in retaliation.

Thank you. Is he still going to be around your neighborhood…and does he drink?

@Dutchess_III Unfortunately, the court doesn’t have the authority to reassign his shelter housing. He will be off the streets for at least two months and if he returns to the neighborhood, he is not to approach me, contact me, or have anyone else do so. (He doesn’t know my address or my workplace so that’s good.)

As for drinking, I can’t say for sure. He’s known to be an addict and mentally disturbed.

@LeavesNoTrace That’s awesome, hopefully the guy might get some sort of intervention too. Yeah, mentally ill addicts, not a good combo. I’m glad you got justice for your scary assault.

I’m so sorry you’re having to go through this…and WHY. It’s such bullshit.

@Dutchess_III Why? Because the dudes a mentally ill addict, that’s why.

It is sexual agression made worse by drug addiction and mental instability.

^ No telling, not all mentally ill addicts are sexually aggressive. Huge bell shaped curve there. Some just sit in the doorways staring at their feet. Obviously this particular disturbed person is acting out in aggressive ways.

I didn’t say they were. I was referring specifically to the guy @LeavesNoTrace had to deal with.

Right.

@Dutchess_III @Coloma So as not to taint the case, I wasn’t told anything about his criminal history and was discouraged from doing my own research—which I obeyed.

However, witnesses of the assault and the cops who later arrested him told me that he was a “bad dude” and would often menace female passersby. He lives in a shelter and hangs out around the neighborhood with other tweakers and K2 users.

My partner was present at his hearing and sentencing and said that he was extremely unhinged in court. There were literally dozens of defendants that day for other crimes and he was the only one who couldn’t compose himself and was mouthing off to the judge. Thankfully, he pled guilty because there was no way to deny it.