Do you expect specific treatment from people based on their age, job, whether you're friends or not, etc? Do you get formal or informal with people, or do you treat all the same?
Asked by
Sneki2 (
2452)
August 21st, 2017
I just read something about formal and informal “you” in language, how do people perceive them, and how do they feel when it’s used, misused, or not used.
Now, there’s no formal you in English; you say “you” to everyone. There is in my language, though; informal you is “ti” and the formal one is “Vi”. I can feel the way people see me based on which “you” do they use. Among younger ones, formal you is used with adults, older people, or someone with some authority, like doctors, cops, etc. With fellow young ones, informal you is always used.
Adults use formal you with each other if they’re strangers, but never with kids.
When I thought about it, I’d feel very uncomfortable if I got informal with an older person, even if I know them well. It’s just rude, it’d mean I see them as my buddy or something. In the same time, if someone my age or younger got formal with me, it’d seem like they concider me old. If an older person uses informal you, it seems they still see me as a child they don’t need to be formal with. At the same time, getting formal with someone my age or younger is equally strange and out of place to me.
I was wondering, since there’s no formal you in English; do you still feel formal when you meet someone older, or someone you don’t know well? Are you informal with a child? Or do you see people the same way, regardless of age or how well you know each other?
If you do feel formal, how do you express that? Do you expect formality from other people?
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11 Answers
Good question.
In the Netherlands we also have both formal and informal you’s, namely, U (formal), and Jij (informal).
Lately I have been addressed more and more in the formal manner, which saddens me, as it can be seen as a sign of aging.
My new neighbor keeps calling me U, even after I told her there’s no need to do so (any longer).
For the rest, I am the same as you, @Sneki2, I get very uncomfortable if I am allowed by an elderly person to call him Jij, feels very impolite.
What is ‘against nature’, almost, to address a younger than myself person with U, sometimes I do that; with doctors/medical personnel, and authority figures.
Must be my upbringing…
Obviously formality and informality exists in English (spoken) cultures, yet I do wonder too whether they experience a certain feeling when addressing a person, based on age, job, familiarity.
I don’t expect special treatment, by the way.
Don’t care for it.
@Sneki2 I get the same feel. Nothing worse when a kid gets formal with me, I feel like a grandma.
I don’t insist on it either, although their choice of formal “you”, or lack of it, can tell me how they see me.
Same in Spanish. There is tú (informal) and usted (formal). In my country, you use usted to treat your elders, strangers, and people in a higher pay scale at work, whereas tú is used with fiends and family. However, in some families they treat each other using usted, which I find very provincial.
No. I don’t look my age. Some young people are more formal with me than they used to be, but I find that I get along with people better with the fewer expectations I have of them.
@Sneki2 Here in Serbia, we’re informal with family members, but using the first name instead of the title (mom, dad, aunt, uncle, etc) it still a no-no.
@Espiritus_Corvus How exactly do they express the formality? Is it just calling you “sir” or is there any other verbal or non verbal clue they’re trying to be formal with you?
^^Yes, they began calling me “sir” just a couple of years ago when I’m off the job, in the supermarket, etc. The rest is very subtle, hard to put your finger on. Young men trust me with their confidences and ask advice a lot more now. This is new. We’re no longer in competition. I’m no longer treated as an equal. If I’m invited to race on another person’s boat in a regatta, I’m invariably offered the wheel. Things like that.
Oh, and nobody asks me to do any heavy lifting anymore. I’m big and muscular, and I was always the go to guy women would ask to move stuff. It was annoying, but what the hell. That hasn’t happened much lately. I think it’s because my beard has gotten much grayer in the past three years. And recently I began getting grey at the temples.
I don’t mind any of this. But if they begin underestimating me mentally simply because of my grey, I would find that extremely annoying.
Yes, I started getting called “maam” a few years ago too, it was a little un-nerving at first but hey, I am a middle aged woman sooo, it is what it is.
I show up exactly the same with everyone, am open, friendly and approachable and don’t define people based on age or position. Of course there are some little social games and protocol that we all must play along with, to a degree, but only to a degree.
I can play the game with ease and finesses but basically I am who I am , no pretenses and do not like pretense in others. Our age, looks, station in life is not a defining factor in the totality of a person.
@Sneki2 I made it to 60 before this began happening in a noticeable way. Young people approach me with less pretense. That’s nice. It cuts through a lot of song and dance that I never really enjoyed. Their trust is handed to me almost immediately. I find that a great responsibility and respect it.
I’ve always found myself speaking differently, and feeling I’m being treated in some way differently by, different types such as elders (or people whom I perceive elders), policemen (and for that matter anyone in authority), and of course children.
I call everyone Sir and Ma’am, regardless of age.
Welcome to the twisted world of “formality”.
There is so much about title in my language that I don’t even know where to begin. Here everyone has a different title based on their age, gender, social status and even closeness and feeling from the speaker. Most of the titles doesn’t have any equivalent in any language well except maybe Chinese or probably Japanese. You are always on the lookout who you are talking to to use the right title.
There is a few examples of the most common titles:
– Anh: used for males that are a little bit older than you how old is still a matter to be debated. Also a neutral title in a formal environment such as workplace. Also used as “I” if you are the older male.
– Chị: same as above, used for females.
– Em: used for people with slightly lower age than you. Also used as “I” if you are the younger. Also used by students when addressing themselves.
– Chú: used for males who are much older than “anh”. Also used for your father’s younger brother your mother’s one is a different story. Also used as “I” if you are the older male.
– Cô: same as “chú”, for female. Also used for addressing female teachers professors the male one is another story.
– Bác: used for people much older than you. Also used for you father’s older brother and sister.
– Ông: used for males much much older than you and to address yourself if you are the old male one. Also used for your grandfather. Also sometimes used when talking about famous dead people.
– Bà: the female of ”ông”.
– Bạn: the most neutral title of all, which means that in order to use it the environment you are in has to be in perfect conditions: the person you are talking is not too young or old. The environment is neutral enough. There is no emotion involved.
– Tôi: the “I” of bạn.
– Mày: used to address someone you don’t like, someone much smaller than you in an angry way, or sometimes your close friend.
– Tao: the “I” of “mày”
There are a lot more but I don’t want to confuse you any further.
There are even rules on how to use them. People don’t often use names when talking, so you either have to use the titles before the names or use the title alone. For example, let’s say you have to call a man who is older than you and whose name is Ba, you have to say “chú Ba”. In many cases only the title is necessary, unless it’s your friend or people exactly the same age as you.
Not to mention tons of manners that go with the titles that I just don’t have time to explain.
As you can already guess, these titles imply that you have to treat everyone differently based on a strict set of criteria. It leads to the consequence that some people get more respect than others. I just hate it when I have to show respect to someone who just doesn’t deserve it. This is the reason why I like English. Everyone is treated neutrally. You have to actually earn the respect you deserve. You are not born with it.
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