If you had been a lifelong Christian, but then chose atheism, and you wanted your kids to have free will to decide for themselves, would you remove all children's Bible story books from your house?

I would remove the ones I thought were awful, but not the ones that seemed neutral or worthwhile or interesting in some way.

As a kid raised by atheist/agnostics, I ran into “Jonah and the Whale” kids book(s) and thought that like most fairy tales, it was imaginative and interesting at first, and rather silly and unrealistic upon reflection, and that the moral was a bit forced. I didn’t really know or care if it was a Biblical story or not, and if I found out, it wouldn’t tend to influence me towards Christianity.

Jonah and the Whale seems harmless to me. Even having a Bible around seems reasonable.

If I had any stuff that’s trying to be indoctrinating to awful misguided Christianity though, I’d tend to get rid of it or put it with adult content.

(Frog and Toad are awesome.)

Which ones do you think are awful? I wouldn’t have any about Christ’s crucifixion.

I believe your daughter’s reaction was impulsive, and you should tell her that the “story” is just as suitable as any other fairy tale. I mean she is almost certain to hear it from someone before the age of 8. Better to get mom or grandma’s take on the tale, when those questions start coming. My own favorite answer to the Jonah saga is the Disney film of Pinnichio, which to my mind remains the greatest cartoon the studio has produced. Monstro the whale demotes Jonah’s travails to sleep inducing pablum.

I tried. She gets stuff set in her mind and there is no changing it.

BTW, now she’s convinced that I put them through all kinds of bullshit because I believed in God when they were growing up. I don’t know what she’s going to come up with, but it will probably be something like I threatened that they would go to hell if they didn’t obey me. Problem is, I have not believed in heaven or hell since I was 10 years old. I have never believed in any of the miracles either. They were impossible.

Honestly, I would let them look into/research any religion they want. If they decide they want to join one or be apart of one, I’d obviously have them wait until they are older to make that decision as an adult, and I’d make sure they knew all the logical flaws and things. But I wouldn’t shame them or anything. Once they turn 18, it’s there choice to do whatever they want.

As for picking and choosing what stories they get to read, I would let them read more “Innocent” (for lack of a way better word) stories such as Jonah and the Whale. When they got older, high school age, then they may read anything they want. With free access to internet I can’t really stop them either.

I’m talking about preschoolers. I should have mentioned that.
I would let them look into whatever they wanted, as long as it wasn’t on the dark web.
Something like that should be their choice at any age. I mean, what are you going to do before they’re 18 and they tell you that they believe something you don’t?

I meant like actually going as far as converting or something. That’s a decision that I feel should be made by someone a bit older, in my mind. I’d totally be fine with my daughter or son saying that they relate with the Jewish religion, for example. I’d allow them to read more into it and all that, but converting would have to wait.

Yeah, I read your previous question similar to this, and I kind of got that you were talking about younger aged children.

The thing that floors me is that people who raise their kids Christian, including myself, are brainwashing them just like we brainwash them in all aspects of their lives. I mean, that’s what raising kids is all about, and a parent should be very cognizant of what they are doing.

That’s why I don’t agree with forcing religion or politics on children. The more you force it on them, it seems like they will become more intolerant and close minded towards other religions and political views because they were raised so strictly as a christian or republican or democrat, etc. I’m not in anyway saying that kids raised Christian or automatically intolerant, it totally depends on how the parents taught them and all that.
If a parent raises their child by saying “You are a Christian and I will not tolerant you saying you aren’t” then they are more likely to not be open minded to other views.

Oh, I agree. The more unyielding a parent is, the worse it is for the kids in the end. It can really mess them up.
However, you force other things on them. All of us who have kids do.

“Which ones do you think are awful? I wouldn’t have any about Christ’s crucifixion.”
I was thinking of things like indoctrination pamphlets that lay down threats and guilt and so on. Also probably most things from the Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses (not that I don’t tend to get rid of those anyway).

And it seems to me there are some children’s books written from an overly Christian orientation. It’s not the violent or religious or mythic content I’d be concerned about. In fact, I think having a variety of various actual-religion-related books is a good thing, because that’s part of our world and is interesting. Like, I have some books with reproductions of medieval Christian illuminated texts and Christian art which includes saints being martyred (which I don’t think scars kids when they see it in a cathedral window), and some Hieronymous Bosch monstrous scenes (which are probably best saved for teen years) and so on. What concerns me is the stuff that seems written with an agenda to indoctrinate and shape thought patterns in seductive and manipulative ways.

You know the religion I was raised in. I was in my early-mid 20s when I gave it up for good and embraced the void.

I still have Bibles in the house. I got rid of the “children’s Bible” I had bought for Ian – I think I gave it away at a yard sale. But sure, the $250 leather bound, gold foil-embossed Thompson Chain Reference bible I bought for my husband when we were dating? Still have it. The 1842 Bible I used to carry at Civil War re-enactments? Definitely still have that. And a few bookstore-type fake leather regular ol’ Bibles. I have my Strong’s Concordance as well.

Of course, I also have books on Astrology and Tarot, and Wicca, and Satanism, and Buddhism, and Hinduism, and all sorts of classical and ancient mythologies. Why should Christianity be any different?

Yeah, I don’t think what I’d call “actual” Christian books should be avoided. I’d avoid the ones that seem to be aimed at indoctrinating people into certain ideas that seem really misguided. There are some non-Christian books which I’d avoid for the same sorts of reasons, too. Though some exposure to things that ought to be rejected is unavoidable and probably not bad – it’s a muscle we all need to develop. It seems to me I was pretty good at rejecting things as a kid and they were more annoying than likely to lead me astray except maybe ones with wrong information. Having skeptical parents who shared their stories about Sunday school went a long way.

A special shelf for all world religious children books could encompass Hinduism, Wikka, Ancient Greek and Roman gods, Folklore of Ireland, etc…

I have books scattered everywhere.

I would never have such literature in the house in the first place. If they bring it home, that’s different. Being either Atheist or Theist (or Agnostic) is something they would have to decide for themselves.

Would you ban books on Roman mythology too? Or stories about Indian spiritual beliefs? Or Confucius or reincarnation? How can they decide if they don’t know what their options are?

People talk. Their friends talk. And they’ll ask questions of both them and myself. They can figure it out at an appropriate age like I had to.
I wouldn’t ban books (didn’t say or imply that) of a religious/mythological/spiritual nature, just not have them laying around for no real reason except to make me look like I was a hypocrite. And religious hypocrites are the worst!

@kritiper How would having books on mythology or religion make you look like a hypocrite?

I agree with Michael Meade that myths are about timeless archetypes and serve our emotional and mental health. Religions are also part of our history and our present and can be useful in the same way, even for fervent materialists.

But you did say that you would ban them. “I would never have such literature in the house in the first place.” That means if they came in, you would take them right back out.
I have books about Greek Mythology in the house. I have books about Native American spiritualism in the house. I have the Odyssey in the house. Does that make me a hypocrite? Christianity is just a myth, like the rest of them and it has a place in a well rounded education, just like the rest of them do.

And the fact that their friends talk is half of it. They’ll have friends who will insist that these stories are true, and if your kids haven’t been taught to think for themselves, have never been exposed to the myths, they just might believe it, especially when they’re younger.

If you want them to decide for themselves, then don’t hide any bible stories. If they are interested in reading them and have questions, then you can answer. If they aren’t interested in reading the bible stories, so much the better. You can sell them at a yard sale!
Take care.

@Dutchess_III This sounds like just another post where you feel that you are right and a friend/relative is in the wrong. Without knowing their perspective of the situation, we can’t give you an honest answer.

Why not have a private, calm discussion with your daughter on how she feels about introducing her children about various religions, agnostistic, and atheists? She may have a viewpoint that hasn’t been considered.

First, I was not asking for any advice.

Second her perspective is quite clear. I have difficulty talking to her sometimes because she is so reactionary and tends to respond emotionally without really understanding what I (or whomever) is trying to say. In this case it’s really not even worth any further discussion with her because it makes no difference to me.

Third the situation simply gave me the idea of asking Jellies what they think about having children’s religious stories in their house. That’s what we do here. Something happens in our lives and we often ask a question about it. We often specify the situation that prompted it.

As far as my daughter and her kids, for what little they have to do with the question, I absolutely will honor her wishes, whether I agree with them or not. She doesn’t even have to give me reason.
I would never deliberately go against something my kids thought was best for their kids. Never.

So what are your thoughts on having religious texts at your house, whether for kids or whomever @Pied_Pfeffer?

We have a lot of religious books.

I figured you would!

@Dutchess_III No, that’s not what I meant. There would be no reason whatsoever for the matrial to be here in the first place. I have no problem with the kid bringing it home, if that’s what he/she wants to know something (is curious) about.
Mythology is different because nobody holds any real belief in it. Not like Theist religion. Kids are intelligent enough to know the obvious difference. My kids would, anyway…
@Zaku That should be obvious. If I had that stuff around now my friends and family would wonder what the hell was up with me, me with my stanch Atheist POV, yet possessing the material Theist other. (“You’re either a liar or a hypocrite! What gives??”)

I have always had religious books and history books and science books and natural history books around the house.

Pretty sure Greek mythology was accepted as truth when it was first dreamed up. Anyone ever notice some of the similarities between the Greek stories and the Christian stories? I find it so curious that Christians snort in ridicule about Zeus coming down from the mountian and getting a human chick knocked up, but listen in wonder and awe at the same story that appears in their religion.

I think it doesn’t matter if you have a million bibles or children religious stories at home. If the parents aren’t practicing their faith the children won’t either. I made that mistake. I thought I would let my children decide but I wasn’t practicing my faith any longer. Mostly because the Catholic faith is different in different states. The Priest I met in the south were not like the ones I grew up knowing in NYC. In NYC the Priest were open to ideas and the exchange of ideas. Not in the South. In the NYC they encouraged critical thinking and were quick to answer your questions and not just try to shut you down. But my point is that I thought my kids were better off not learning about the Southern angry God that just expected them to obey and not inquire and have real faith. So I thought I would be enough. Out of myself and my 4 siblings who went to church every Sunday, only I still believe. I’m just not a practicing Catholic in the sense that I don’t go to Church on Sundays. The rest are agnostic. We all went to church every Sunday and went to Catholic School. In the end, we all chose what we were willing to believe.

But I feel now that I actually took that choice away from my kids. My kids are Agnostic as well. If I had taken them to church they still would’ve probably ended up that way but then I would’ve felt they would’ve seen first hand what faith had to offer. Now there is the possibility that the Priest in the south would’ve given them an experience I never knew and may have ended up as Atheist. They were not real men of faith. They were bible thumpers that used the bible to make people scared of God. It wasn’t how I grew up. I don’t believe in a vengeful angry God. I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Faith is my shelter in a storm and gives me peace.

So to answer your question. Having religious stories around children does nothing. They take their cues from their parents. Non practicing parents will raise non practicing children. Which is why, I think people who fear religious speak are foolish for believing that will suddenly convert their children. Information only informs people and keeps them from being ignorant of what others believe and opens the door of communication. Denying information either makes it more attractive, or breeds the same ignorance and fear and shuts the door of communication.

Excellent @Pandora. Very well said.
I still believe in the philosophies and wisdom attributed to Jesus too. I still pray sometimes. It’s a meditation that gives me comfort.

A close friend in college had received a scholarship the basically covered the cost of all expenses. One day, I told her that I was envious that she had to put less time in studying. She looked at me and said, “I am envious of you for having exposure to (Christian) religion. You have no idea how many references to it come up that go completely over my head.”

That statement stuck with me. Since then, I’ve tried to learn the basics of other religions and beliefs. I wish all parents would do the same. They should offer age-appropriate materials on religions and have open discussions on how they feel about it.

@Pandora – if that’s true, than you also denied them the opportunity to see what Buddhism, Sikhism, Islam, Wicca, and Judaism have to offer, since you didn’t take them to those places of worship, either.

By not pushing religion on them at an early age, you gave them a real choice.

There’s a reason Catholicism wants to claim the kids then they’re seven.