Would you give us your opinion on the "Me Too" that has been trending on Facebook?

I like it. I am glad this ancient evil is being thrown into the light. Perhaps this time, the tide will turn, and this curse will begin to ebb.

***

Me too.

I am so, very sorry @Hawaii_Jake. I can’t help but wonder if abuse is actually worse for boys than girls (depending on the severity, of course.)

Thank you. :)

Due the scope of the problem, I’m certain it’s much worse for women and girls. However, no one’s experience should be dismissed. Each story matters.

I don’t know about worse, just much more prevalent for women. It happens to virtually every. single. women.

Silly meaningless fad.

Abuse and sexual predation is serious and a big problem.

Millions of women saying ME TOO but doing nothing to address the problem,... is meaningless.

It’s also as prevalent in the LGBTQ community. We’ve all been sexually harassed.

@elbanditoroso I could not disagree more vehemently. The first step is naming the problem/situation/event. I doubt this will be the end of what’s happening.

I think that some men are actually thinking about it for the first time @elbanditoroso. I don’t think many men realized how prevalent it really is.

i worry that all the info that people share so willing can somehow backfire. i don’t know how it could but knowing the internet anything can be.
Maybe a job interview for being a caseworker? Or some slimy insurance company looking to deny mental health benefits or who know?
I’m not saying that is right. I’m just saying there is the potential for this information to be misused.
I think the “Me too” might be more meaningful if it were followed by who did the abusing. ”...by ______” That would really open a can of worms and bring attention to the situation.
Imagine if women had written ”... by Harvey Weinstein” years ago.

@LuckyGuy – wow, what an opportunity for lawyers!!!

@elbanditoroso Yep. But mentioning it might actually reduce the number of incidences – and get some abusers off the streets.
Before someone added the ” by ____” tag, they would need to have documentation and be willing to stand in a court of law.
Do that and the impact would be multiplied 1000 fold.

I’ve seen very, very few actual stories, although I posted one myself this morning. It happened when I was 7. Can’t imagine any potential employer being put off by it.

Thank you @LuckyGuy.

Don’t do FaceBook, I am outta the loop on this one. Sounds like the world if full of dirty preverts who need a good ass kicking.

But MOST guys aren’t like that. But who would you remember the most clearly, the dozens who hurt you, terrified you, humiliated you over a life time, or the hundreds that were perfect gentlemen in all situations?

I suppose the jerky ones. But certainly not in a fond way.

Just the most clearly.

Sad situation. Crappy world.

I worry it’s too much information out there. I have not said anything specific about myself, but I have commented on other people’s comments that men have no idea, and that the basic statement floating around is so ambiguous that me too could be commenting on something that some girls/women don’t perceive as harassment or pressure or uncomfortable, and some girls/women do. My guess is almost 100% of girls have dealt with teenage bullshit from teenage boys in some form or another.

I also commented that more than teaching girls to protect themselves, we need to teach boys what right and wrong, and even what’s illegal. Even if women know how to respond, or how to get out of a bad situation, if the bad situation still got started, the women can easily be traumatized. We have to live cautiously. It’s annoying.

Teenage? Try a 50 year old hitting on me as a 16 year old, or the father of some children I was babysitting attacking me on the ride home. He as at least 40, I was 13. When I was almost raped I was in my early 30s. Where do you get the idea it only happens to teenagers?

relevant

Good point @Hawaii_Jake. Then you got your Trumps and Weinsteins.

Good grief, you’re dad should have kept a closer watch on you, after all that. Don’t mean that as a reflection on you, just mean he maybe should have been more protective. If some clown pulled that shit on my daughter or grand daughter, I’d go to jail and not give a shit. After I break his freakin arms.

I am annoyed by the number of men who have been jumping in on this and posting “me too”. Men should learn when to STFU and listen.

You think I told him @NomoreY_A? The guy I was babysitting was a friend of his. No I didn’t tell him, ever.

@Rarebear If men were also sexually abused or harassed you don’t think it’s appropriate for them to post “Me too”? I think that’s also a part of the conversation we need to be having.

Just my own opinion, but seems like your daddy would have had your back. I’d have unfriended his ass real quick. Probably worse than that. Good grief that shit is terrible. I know all the platitudes in the Cosmos wont change what happened, but I am truly sorry you have had to go thru all that shit. I’m taking a beak awhile, bummed out. Might be back on in a while.

Look @NomoreY_A. That was a big part of the problem. We were trained from a very young age to be ashamed of being sexually attacked. Most of us never told anyone.

Not only that, was my Dad supposed to follow me around? I mean, the 50 year old who hit on my when I was 16 stopped to “help” change my tire, even though I told him I didn’t need help. I knew how to change a tire. But he insisted. Then got angry when I refused to have a drink with him. He felt he has the right to be paid back for his “help.” That was on the side of the road. I didn’t even know his name. What was my dad supposed to do about that?

I see your point. Just angry. I’ll take a break, and say no more.

I think some of the men on this thread are missing the point.
The point is that it’s waaaay more prevalent than most men understand. One of my male friends was shocked that every single woman on his friends list had posted “Me, too”. Every. Single. One.
We are not so stupid, @elbanditoroso, as to think that this will actually change things, we actually have the intellectual capability to understand that it is an awareness campaign, no matter how stupid and silly you think it is. <eye roll>

I honestly think the men are waking up, probably for the first time. Maybe they WILL say something from now on.
I think this is a good thing.

I have a friend who posted to facebook that she refused to make this her status because she thinks men need to take accountability for their actions. She said this campaign won’t stop anyone from abusing others. I have a different take so I shared my thoughts.

“So many people stay silent because they are afraid. I think the silence is more harmful. Hopefully some young woman (or man) will see this campaign and get the courage to speak out. That’s my take anyway. I stayed silent for two decades. I feel so much better now that I have spoken out and I see that I’m not alone.”

I was raped at 15. Physically assaulted at 16 for refusing to have sex with a boy. Made to watch a lewd act by someone higher above at a workplace when I was 18. Raped again at 19. When I was first raped no one believed me. At the young age of 15 I was shown how cruel this world can be. I never told anyone about the other awful experiences I had. In fact I never mentioned it until I joined Fluther and someone else was talking about their experiences. After two decades of holding this all in, thinking I was only a piece of meat and not worthy of love (even though I was married) I finally felt as if I wasn’t alone. Someone listened to me! Someone believed me and finally gave me the support I so desperately needed for years.

Victims remain silent because they are treated as if they did something to contribute to the crime. Silence does more harm than good.

This whole campaign has brought so many mixed emotions for me. I first felt empowered, but as the day went on I felt depressed because I was reminded of all of the terrible things that happened to me. I decided to leave social media alone and enjoy my favorite time of year. Out of habit I looked over here and saw this question so I thought I would give my take. I’m going to go back now and watch a scary movie, American Horror Story, and call it a night.
crap, can’t forget about the Cubs. Go Cubs!

Relevant:

Stop the world, I want to get off. Drop me off at the next asteroid.

@janbb Nope. This trend is about women.

^And just like that an entire section of the population was told to be silent because their voices don’t matter and their experiences are unimportant or are not valid.

This is why women are silent. This is why LGBT people are silent. This is why people of color are silent. Because the white, heterosexual man has told us to be silent.

For the record, every single LGBT person I know has experienced sexual harassment and/or sexual assault. Every single one.

And it was somehow our fault. As we learn from a young age. How young? I’ll share this here.

This is one of my first memories.

I was 7. Lived in Florida. I had a shirt that I really, really liked. It zipped all the way up the front, and the zipper pull was a ring. The shirt was made of “blue jean” material. It probably wasn’t actual blue jean material, just blue denim, but I thought it was so cool. I remember hooking my finger in that ring and mindlessly zipping up and down, up and down, like kids do.
Mom dressed me in that shirt for school one day. I don’t remember what skirt I wore but I know it was a skirt. In those days, all girls had to wear dresses or skirts, no exception. Of course, that was a pain because boys were forever trying to look up our skirts to see our underwear. I never understood the fascination. Neither did the elementary school boys, I’m sure. They just had learned, from somewhere, this is what boys did to girls, and it would humiliate the girls.
On the playground that day, in 2nd grade, toward the end of recess, I was suddenly surrounded by 5 or 6 boys, jeering and taunting me. I don’t know why, or what for. I don’t remember what they were saying. I was confused and scared.
Suddenly, quick as a snake, one boy hooked his finger in that ring and suddenly my entire shirt was unzipped, including the latches at the bottom. My entire chest was exposed.
I was horrified. Mortified.
The whistle blew for us to come line up to go in. I turned my back to the school, and all the other kids, and desperately tried to zip the shirt back up. I had barely learned to tie my shoes. I didn’t really know how to hook the latches together to zip it up, but I desperately tried.
Then the whistle blew again and I knew it was specifically for me, because I was the only kid who hadn’t made it to the line.
I knew it drew all eyes to me, and that increased my panic…but then, by some miracle, the latches slipped together and I started running to the line, zipping my shirt up as I ran.
I could barely see for the tears. I know my face was wet, with tears, dripping off my chin.
As I approached the lines all the boys, including the boys from other classes, were pointing and laughing.
No one ever asked me what was wrong.
I got home that day. I never told my Mom. I was too ashamed.

I was ashamed. I shouldn’t have worn that shirt. I should have known that shirt was just asking for it.

I never wore that beloved shirt again. I’m sure Mom asked me once or twice why I wouldn’t wear it, knowing how much I liked it. I just mutely shook my head. Mom, bless her heart, looked at me curiously but didn’t press the issue.

No, @Rarebear, this (not “trend”, please, it sounds like fancy shoes) movement is about all of the unheard, diminished, disenfranchised who have been sexually assaulted or harassed. Not the meninist jerks who cry “men get assaulted too!” As a means to divert attention from the actual persons who have experienced this.
There is a difference between someone saying “Me, too” and someone shouting that attention should be diverted from the victims.

Don’t be patronizing. Of course it’s a trend. By the twitter definition it is a “trend” because it is “trending”. That doesn’t minimize the importance of it.

Hahaha, amusing that you, of all people, use the word patronizing, and cite twitter as your authority no less!
And use of the word “trend” notwithstanding, you are not addressing the point of my post.
But I don’t expect you to, so no disappointment there.

It IS trending now. In a week or so it will rarely be mentioned. Maybe these last couple of days will make some sort of lasting impact though, especially on the men.

This reminds me of the gun control debate. “Now is not the right time to discuss this!”

There’s never a right time for those who aren’t affected by these crimes.

I disagree. Now is the exact time to discuss this. There have been a number of times good friends of mine in the science community who have been harrassed and have tried to discuss this and have been poo poohed. This is the first time people are really paying attention.

I haven’t heard anyone say now isn’t the right time to discuss this.

I didn’t say this isn’t the time. This is what I am hearing from those who don’t support this campaign.

I know. But I haven’t heard that. I have not met anyone who said they don’t support it. I have experienced a few men that just don’t quite get it but they’re supportive, nonetheless.

Wow. A women, a devout Christian and Trump supporter, just posted a comment one of my threads talking about double standards. Said she’s heard women say inappropriate things to men. I reminded her we were referring to sexual ATTACKS. Physical fucking attacks.

@Dutchess_III I’m a terrible story teller and have a hard time expressing myself on the internet. I’m often misunderstood, but that’s my own fault. I was trying to make a correlation between those who think you shouldn’t talk about gun control after a tragedy and those who say you shouldn’t reveal such personal information about rape/assault on the internet. These people think we should be quiet, but being quiet helps no one. This was the correlation I was trying to make.

@Aethelwine And I still disagree. I think that talking about gun control after a gun tragedy is exactly the right time. It’s the only time the NRA cartel shows a crack.

^I agree with you. I don’t understand your disagreement with my response. I never said any of this was the wrong time. I“m speaking of those who I disagree with. Those who don’t want to speak about these crimes.

who’s on 1st?

Well that is still the mindset of our society @Aethelwine. Sexual attacks are something women should be ashamed of. How could they even think of bringing it to light? Shame on them.

@Rarebear we all agree that now IS the “right time” to talk about it. We disagree with any who might say it isn’t. We all agree there is no wrong time.

@Aethelwine Ah, you’re right. My mistake. I misunderstood what you wrote. I apologize.

@Dutchess_III That was one of my points in my comments, people can interpret it as simple as an off handed remark from a guy or catcalling. The word harass is in the statement I’ve seen, and sexual harassment can certainly be verbal. Not that I’m trying to downplay that sort of harassment, I’m just saying plenty of women answering yes could easily be referring to that sort of thing. To me it counts, but all these women saying “me too,” people might be thinking those women were all physically handled when they all weren’t. A lot are, we know that, but we don’t really know what happened to them with a “me too.”

@Aethelwine I understood you. That happens to me all the time too, especially regarding republicans and Trump supporters. I try to explain their point of view and everyone jumps on me like I voted for Trump and am in the far right even though they know I voted for Hillary and am a life long Democrat.

OK. So down play it @JLeslie. Dismiss it as women making shit up. Not a problem.

There are so many minefields in these conversations, but they’re important to have. Just a little preface to say this is all intended with kindness, but still working out how to express multiple thoughts here.

I think way too many women I know and respect have been assaulted in ways I never knew about. I’m surprised by the number, but more affected by the “who”. Some that I’ve known most of my life, some that I’ve dated, and literally dozens I went to school with. That absolutely crystalizes that it’s a problem that needs to be addressed, more than anything to this point in my life.

It makes me think of my daughters, who aren’t there yet, but will be before I know it. It makes me wonder if avoidance isn’t a realistic strategy to teach them, and I should instead focus on dealing with when it happens rather than if. Like my dad taught me about fights, avoid as long as you can, but here’s what to do when that doesn’t work. It’s not a perfect analogy, but that strategy beats the hell out of “this doesn’t happen to good girls/boys”...

But I’m also unwilling to do anything but offer simple support publicly with people I know (so far). I see that any questions, whether specific (who, when, etc) or general (“why do you think this happens so much”) bring out people’s defenses and are labeled along the lines of “victim blaming”. I don’t know how we get to a solution from there.

I don’t feel like part of the problem, but my feeling is anyone who takes anything less than an unquestioningly sympathetic position on every person’s story is regarded that way. Some people’s simple statement of “me too” is all I need to know, because of the people they are. By the same token, some people with detailed and specific accusations seem suspect, because of what I know of them, their situation, and the other parties. I can understand why questioning that would be an emotional issue, but it feels like carte blanche right now and some people take advantage of that to the detriment of others.

But we can’t say that. Maybe that’s the next challenge after widespread recognition that harassment and assault are so common? Is there a way to balance that without forcing the whole issue back into the dark? It feels like that’s the missing piece for widespread acceptance right now, so should be an issue everyone is involved with solving.

But for now I’ll just offer support where it feels right, and hope things move forward. I appreciate the stories that are out there, and the people behind them.

@JLeslie So catcalling is acceptable? It’s perfectly fine for a woman to walk down the street and have her appearance judged and then trumpeted for all the world to hear?

^^No! I’m the one on the catcalling Q’s who constantly says it’s horrible and women don’t know if the guy is just catcalling or going to attack her. You all know me better than that!!! Shit. I’m the one who says men have no idea how much girls and women deal with. I’m the one who ALWAYS agrees with @Dutchess_III, we are the ones who harp on how much on guard women have to be. I’m shocked she is saying I’m downplaying and misunderstanding me.

Same shit as what just happened to @Aethelwine, but you two have known me for many many years. Should I link a bunch of Q’s to remind everyone? It’s just such a pain in the ass to search on the mobile site.

https://i.fluther.com/175385/how-do-you-deal-with-being-sexual-harassed-in-public-by/

Part of one of my answers on the Q linked above. “I think men don’t understand that women are taught to beware, or we learned the hard way. It might be unlikely we will get attacked, but if it happens it is devastating. Forget that something like one in three females have had unwanted “sexual” things happen to them, and so the fear is very real. Anywhere from molested in some way to raped. I doubt catcalling men are usually the ones doing the molesting and raping, but it can trigger that feeling of discomfort for us that our body is vulnerable.”

That’s just one. I remember @Dutchess_III and I arguing with female jellies, because they thought we were paranoid. I wish I could find that Q. I think jca and a few others were saying what we were saying, but I was shocked at how many women weren’t agreeing with us. But, then one jelly, a young jelly, who said she didn’t feel like us then admitted something had once happened to her, although I think it was “minor.” Not that I want to downplay anything ~. Plus, it wasn’t me downplaying.

@JLeslie I’m sorry you feel like you’re being misunderstood. Here is what you wrote just above:

That was one of my points in my comments, people can interpret it as simple as an off handed remark from a guy or catcalling. The word harass is in the statement I’ve seen, and sexual harassment can certainly be verbal. Not that I’m trying to downplay that sort of harassment, I’m just saying plenty of women answering yes could easily be referring to that sort of thing. To me it counts, but all these women saying “me too,” people might be thinking those women were all physically handled when they all weren’t.

I tried to get a smaller quote, but it needs all this.

Here’s what I see when I read these sentences. When you say that women writing “me too” who are only referring to catcalls are not experiencing the same level of harassment as another woman who was denied employment because she did not grant sexual favors to a prospective employer. Your words definitely lead me to assume that you view physical harassment is somehow worse than verbal. The implication is in your last sentence of the quote included here.

Verbal harassment/abuse is just as bad as physical. It leads to just as many psychological impairments.

I’m glad we’re able to have a thread where we can work out how best to understand each other.

Oh shit. That’s what I said. @Dutchess_III wrote ”...I reminded her we were referring about sexual ATTACKS. Physical fucking attacks.” My response is no, not everyone is talking about physical attacks, some are verbal, some are just a wink, some a stare, all of that can feel harassing and scary. Some women downplay some of those things, and some go home hysterical. Depends on the woman. I don’t think any harassment is ok. I think men constantly do things that make women self conscious, cautious, downright scared, and even feel abused when the guy just bought it was “nothing” or something funny, or something we should like.

@funkdaddy I am so glad all of this has made you aware.
As far as your daughters, above all, make sure they know the ly can come to you with anything. So many girls never say anything out of shame.
I wasn’t sure if you were suggesting teaching them to physically fight the men tho. Keep in mind that for women it’s a good way to end up in the hospital or dead.

@Dutchess_III – no, I wasn’t saying they should fight…

I was just working through it “out loud” as much as anything.

I meant teach them how to avoid and how to handle those situations. There’s an assumption that (most?) boys will be in a fight at some point in their lives, whether they want to fight or not, so they should be prepared to at least recognize it. It can be framed as “some day you might have to defend yourself”, but the result is the same.

It seems mostly we teach young girls that if they make the right decisions they shouldn’t be assaulted, so the focus is on what comes before. The assumption that those situations can be avoided doesn’t seem to be true, so I’d rather my ladies feel prepared, even if it’s a nasty situation that I hope they’re never in and some hard conversations to have.

Again, I’m just working through it, real life is complicated. But framing it as “this should never happen to you” isn’t helping anyone and doesn’t feel right.

Ok. Yeah. Try to council them on situations to avoid if they can. In the end they’ll have to figure it out for themselves. They won’t understand at first why the boys changed or how much. It confused me anyway.
Just be available.

Some people may think it doesn’t do much but I disagree. It does several things. It lets family members know that there are other family members who have gone through it. I remember as a young girl I didn’t talk to my mom about stuff like that. My daughter and I do talk about those kind of things and she has let me know when she was sexually harassed. Way after it passed but, if I had been open about it happening in my past, then maybe she would’ve talked to me sooner when it happened to her.

So I signed it. Because sexual harassment isn’t my shame. I did nothing to warrant the unwanted attention. It hasn’t happened in years but then I’m old now and there are still young women today having to still deal with this crap.

Two. It’s something that can spread beyond our borders. Men around the world need to hear this message. We don’t like it. It is not a mans right or anyone’s right to subject someone to unwanted attention. Flirting is natural to everyone. But when you see the other person isn’t welcoming your attention, then apologize and move on and don’t do it again.

Maybe if these harassers see that their mothers, sisters, aunts and daughters have gone through this, then maybe they will be aware that they are also harassing someones mom, sister, aunt or daughter. The creeps their loves ones refer too would think of them as being creeps as well if they knew.

@Hawaii_Jake As a side note, if you want to apologize for a miscommunication you should take a lesson from @Rarebear. Use “I” instead of “you.” Old psych trick. Your way it sounds like you pity me, it’s just not that tragic that we had a miscommunication, and miscommunication usually is a two way street.

We basically agree on everything, except maybe you think all women should be traumatized by every little thing that can be classified as a harassment. I’m just not going to condemn, or tell, ALL women they have to feel the same, even if I disagree. Some women enjoy a catcall, I wish it was illegal.

@JLeslie I learned that a very long time ago. “I’m sorry you misunderstood me” has a very different connotation than “I’m sorry I misunderstood you”. They are both acknowledging a misunderstanding but one of them is saying, “It’s your fault” and the other is saying, “It’s my fault”.

@JLeslie I wrote what I intended. I am attempting to work through my understanding of your words that you wrote. We can work through it together, or we can move on still misunderstanding each other.

My point is that verbal abuse/harassment is as detrimental as physical. From what you wrote just above, I take it you disagree. I would say there is clinical evidence that verbal is indeed as detrimental as physical abuse.

Perhaps we will choose to leave it at choosing to agree to disagree. I’m not sure what we will choose.

Verbal harassment can be frightening.

In college once I was walking home, back to my dorm, just after dark, having gone to watch the girl’s volleyball team.
About 3 guys were well ahead of me. One looked back, said something to the rest, and they all looked back. They noticeably shortened their stride so that I was catching up to them, talking and laughing among themselves, occasionally looking back.
I got scared and finally crossed the street and I heard of of them say, “Well, it looks like we won’t be having any fun tonight!” I got to my dorm shortly after that, my heart pounding.

I was terrified. They never touched me. That happened ALL the time.

@funkdaddy also, and this may sound odd to you, if your daughters tell you they’ve been harassed, try not to explode in anger. It scares us.
When I was 12 we were on a family road trip. Dad stopped for gas and I went inside the gas station to get a pop. This was 1970 and things were different then. This gas station was also a bar.
I walked in to the dark, smokey bar, completely unsuspecting. There were a handful of drunks scattered around. As I was getting my orange pop from the machine, one guy walked up to me and said, “Hey baby. Can I buy you a beer?”
I was very confused! I mumbled “No thanks,” took my pop and left.
Back on the road a few minutes later I told my parents what had happened. To my utter shock my gentle, passive, 6’5 father slammed on the brakes and yelled, “I’m gonna kill him!!!”
It scared the bejesus out of me! I had no idea why he was going to kill him.
Before we got turned around my mom put a restraining hand on his arm and said, “Joe. Joe.”
He settled down then and we continued on our way, him in angry silence, me in confused silence.
Maybe that’s why I never told him about any of it after that. I was afraid he’d kill someone.

I agree with you so much @Dutchess_III. The reaction of those you tell is crucial. My abuse was minimized by those I told which was also damaging.

On another point, speaking for myself and not contradicting anyone else’s truth, the times when I was younger and catcalled or otherwise verbally harassed were less upsetting than the times when I had to fight guys off me who got the wrong message or the long years of sexual abuse from a relative. It’s different now, but when I was younger, cat calls were part of the lingua franca and you dealt with it . Not saying that was a good thing.

A continual pattern of verbal abuse from a relative or other close connection could certainly be as damaging as physical abuse.