How thick is a flak jacket?

@filmfann I disagree, it was not designed to embarrass the woman, it was designed to make himself look “good”. I would hazard a guess that the person behind the camera was a guy. I doubt it would have happened if it was a woman. Anyone know if I am right in my assumption?

Flak jackets are designed to minimize the effect of a bullet hitting your chest and as such I doubt (ask @josie) that you can feel a hand through the material no matter how thin it is.

According to the story, he previously had forced her into “rehearsing” a kiss and thrust his tongue in to her mouth. It isn’t just the picture.

Take all the ‘humor’ and ‘fun’ and ‘men’s locker room behavior’ away from it and what we are left with is a man who is objectifying a woman.
Reducing a woman to her breasts.
It’s not rape, I think, but you simply have to keep your hands to yourself.
Also if they’re not touching (her/the person).
Maybe it’s time we start teaching our children this important lesson.

He did not actually grope her. He pretended to for a photo. Juvenile? Yes. Sexual assault? No. He has apologized and said that he is embarrassed and ashamed.

IS NOBODY PAYING ATTENTION TO THE FACT I KEEP SAYING THAT AT ANOTHER TIME HE FORCED A KISS ON HER AND THRUST HIS TONGUE IN HER MOUTH?

I wish I could feel differently but I think that is assault and I won’t let my liberal bias excuse it. I don’t know what the repercussions should be but I don’t think we can be hypocrites.

@janbb – not excusing, but the kiss was planned and agreed to before hand. The tongue was not and is inappropriate by any measure. They did the kiss again though as part of their gig, so I think it’s hard to paint that as him forcing her to kiss. He went too far, for whatever reason.

@funkdaddy In the article I read, she put him off rehearsing the kiss and he forced it. There are stage kisses and there are real ones – she did not expect or permit it. Of course, it’s “he said, she said” but this was still really bad behavior.

@janbb – this was still really bad behavior

100% agree. But if we’re wondering why the kiss isn’t getting more attention, I’d say because it was a staged kiss, probably in a comedy bit.

@funkdaddy I think it’s more because a picture being worth what it is…....

But in any case, this is all an unpleasant diversion from the real drama of the tax fight so I’ll retreat from the field.

@janbb PERHAPS BECAUSE THE QUESTION WAS ABOUT FLAK JACKETS AND NOT KISSING ON THE MOUTH. that is covered in another question

@rojo I guess I read into the intent of a question and not just the surface. I thought we were talking about Franken’s behavior toward the woman and how serious it is.

To answer the question as if this were in General then: Gee, I don’t know how thick a flak jacket is.

NOBODY (except maybe Roy Moore) is saying what he did is acceptable.

I realize that. I think I’m getting heated because I think we all have to look at our own biases and also because when I talked about several years of abuse, it was minimized. But I do understand what you are saying.

There seems to be hope for converting you to libertarianism – or at least “in that general direction”, anyway – someday, @janbb.

My point is, as it has always been, that all men (and all women, for that matter) are flawed, and for that reason we should NOT give them – individually or in groups – as much power as we do. In Lincoln’s day, for example, the presidency itself was not a particularly revered institution, and the person itself, that is, Mr. Lincoln, was in no wise a celebrity to be particularly fawned over (or feared, in general). However, even then the office had too much power. (Most of that owing to the times and the horrific war being fought then.)

And it has only gotten worse. These days, comparing the celebrity – and individual power – of a Senator Franken to President Lincoln is no contest: Franken wins that contest. He exercises more power through his own office and celebrity than Lincoln ever could have. That is so, even though Lincoln – for his day – seemed to have the powers of a dictator as a “War President” (and he did have a lot of power “for his day”). In the decades after Lincoln, at least until Wilson and then again after him until FDR, the office was nowhere near as powerful.

And that’s what libertarians want: less-powerful government, where “it doesn’t matter who holds the office”, because we recognize that whoever it is will be flawed, and for that reason it’s better that they have less power individually and collectively. I’m not saying that “I’m better than they are”; I have flaws, too. One of the primary differences between me and Al Franken is that I don’t want to make rules and laws for “everyone else” to follow. I’m happy enough to watch out and answer for my own conduct, and let Al Franken answer for his.

Franken is a pig. So is Trump. So is Weinstein. The biggest difference between and among all of those men is that we can more or less ostracize, ignore and forget about Weinstein – and he can’t call upon the mechanisms of government to protect himself from justly leveled charges.

I just don’t think a kiss rises to the level of sexual assault if she, somewhat reluctantly, said OK. The tongue, gross. The badgering sexual harassment, yes.

@marinelife I agree that it’s hard to know where the lines are between harassment and assault in a given situation.