Does Ivanka Trump have a problem? What would you do?

Are you asking what Ivanka (person who has gone along with the ridiculous situation so far) would/will/should do taking into account what we can surmise of her mindset?

Or are you asking what we would do if we woke up living as Ivanka Trump, and got to retain our ideas and morals?

If you mean the latter, then I’d go along with the charade for a bit and gather as much information and evidence as possible that could bring down as many terrible scumbags as I could get access to, and then at some point take refuge someplace and release it all, and write exposés and denounce the bejeezus out of all the scumbags I’d ever known.

If I was Ivanka, I’d falsely accuse my father of rape and burn the whole fucking thing to the ground (metaphorically)...

@gorillapaws Why do you think you’d need to invent any false accusations in her position?

@Zaku – nice Machiavellian answer

@Zaku Trump would fall because… incest (conservatives have a way of excusing sexual assault for their own, but incest is harder to deflect). The media has already elevated her to princess status and would flock behind her (there would be a few conservatives that would bash her, but the right would ultimately support her). Now she would be in control of the conservative circus with national sympathy behind her…

What’s the alternative, go down as being associated with scumbags as the truth eventually finds its way into the light?

I don’t think she has a problem, and she doesn’t have to choose between daddy and Jared.

The President can hand Jared any classified document he wants, and just declare anything he gives Jared as automatically down graded.

Declassifying documents one-by-one is too much work for a lazy person who golfs three days a week.

Also, clearance is required for meetings. I don’t know that he can get a waiver for any of those.

I normally wouldn’t involve myself in a thread such as this—but what are your sources? Members of the Trump family appear regularly on Fox news. I know you never watch Fox news, but there is nothing scandalous going on in the Trump family, as this thread is inferring. If there were, I’m sure there’d be commentary or denial. But nothing.

What ARE you inferring? I know Jared Kushner has a (slightly) lower level of security clearance, but the topic of this thread is completely foreign to me, and I DO keep up occasionally,

I certainly wouldn’t call Trump a lazy person who plays golf three times a week. He’s all over the news every day,

@Yellowdog – By now you must realize that when leveling accusations against Trump, they don’t need any basis in fact. Hell, they don’t even need a basis in rumor. Just make it up as you go along.

Here’s one of many articles about Kushner’s failure to get a full security clearance. It’s from The New York Times and there have been several other news pieces about this.

What Ivanka’s issues may or may not be hold no interest to me. I do agree that the question is worded in a slanted way.

@elbanditoroso It just seems to me like the right thing to do, for someone with my own sense of right and wrong.

@gorillapaws @Yellowdog It seems to me that as Trump’s daughter she almost surely has access to much more than the public information about his personal life, and probably his business affairs. And as someone involved in his White House administration and being taken around on diplomatic trips, being his daughter and not a regular federal employee, particularly given Trump’s habits of saying things, and his paranoia yet need to talk to someone, I imagine she may be one of the most well-informed people about what what Trump has been up to most of his life. Melania would be another, and it certainly looks like she’s got many unpleasant things she’s not saying about Trump.

There are so many publicly reported scandals about Trump that’s it’s challenging to even come up with a complete list. He generally completely denies all of them. Ivanka probably has quite a bit of knowledge, and could get evidence to support it, on many of these. She could also just leak names of people investigators should talk to.

Then there are the known issues under investigation. $300 million dollars laundered during his election campaign? The whole Russian investigation, and the actual reasons for his various appointees to all sorts of posts, and their motives and dealings, and who could be questioned to learn more about those (e.g. Rex Tillerson and what he stands to gain by lifting sanctions on Russia ).

I’m not sure though how to bridge the chasm of perceptions between what looks obvious to me (that Trump has endless things to hide even just about his actions since elected, that Ivanka should have access to evidence about), and the perceptions of people who don’t see that and/or think Trump is probably just an honest guy trying to make America great who gets falsely accused a lot.

there is nothing scandalous going on in the Trump family

Just for one, tell us what you know about the non-scandalous $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels. That sounds interesting.

If Princess Ivanka were Machiavellian, she could easily take down both dad and husband, and ascend the throne.

If I were in Ivanka’s situation, I’d believe my mother.

Objectively there’s no sensible excuse for denigrating Ivanka. It is simply a matter of fact that no possible attribute will ever compensate for her misfortune in being related to her father.

Divorce Jared before he goes to prison and move to China with the kids to run my child labor business and live like a Queen.

@stanleybmanly Ah. But is it nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take action or at least speak out, and by opposing, end them?

Are you saying that she should defy daddy simply as a matter of personal integrity? Imagine yourself in her position. What would you do? Divorce yourself from the idiot and his policies (thereby assuring the manifest defects uninherited through your own soundness of perception) or loyally riding along in the clown car on the dim chance your influence might somehow mitigate the ongoing train wreck? Of course both choices hinge on the assumption of your ability to recognize daddy’s shortcomings for what they are. Do you think she has the chops? How many of those associated with the man would you assume have the wherewithal to understand that he is an inept fool?

@stanleybmanly -I have no idea what you just wrote above, but I applaud your vehemence.

Hey, @Pandora, how have you been?

@stanleybmanly

“Are you saying that she should defy daddy simply as a matter of personal integrity?”
YES

“Imagine yourself in her position. What would you do?”
What I wrote in my original reply. It’s sort of your first option, but by including intentional gathering of information and evidence, has more opportunities to be more effective.
Here it is again: “I’d go along with the charade for a bit and gather as much information and evidence as possible that could bring down as many terrible scumbags as I could get access to, and then at some point take refuge someplace and release it all, and write exposés and denounce the bejeezus out of all the scumbags I’d ever known.”

“Of course both choices hinge on the assumption of your ability to recognize daddy’s shortcomings for what they are. Do you think she has the chops?”
Well, you were asking what I would do, and my answer was about the idea of my mind in her position. And she is clearly not of my mind.

I don’t spend much of my time studying Ivanka Trump, but from watching her be interviewed about whether she believes the many women who have accused her husband of sexual misconduct and speaking about tax breaks for middle-income families with children (and not sounding to me like a cold idiot, the way most current Republicans tend to immediately sound to me) and what little else I’ve seen, my first impression is she seems smart and socially competent, and has a different style, but also has a private mindset that I can’t read through her calculated presentation. I think she has major political ambitions and has been crafting a public persona to become a political celebrity herself, and I imagine that her mind is full of much more nefarious plots than the one I mentioned, but unfortunately is probably aligned with oligarchic empire, with no intention of exposing it except in calculated sacrifices (and I do imagine she’ll sacrifice her father or husband with cool indifference as soon as she (and/or her handlers) calculate it is most efficient to do so.

“How many of those associated with the man would you assume have the wherewithal to understand that he is an inept fool?”
I don’t pay enough attention, but I think that it seems pretty clear that most of the staff are some mix of sycophantic fool and self-interested scheming ladder-climber. I imagine many of them know he’s ridiculous at one level or another, while some others don’t know or don’t care and/or pretend not to know, because he’s in the White House and doing what the oligarchs want. I think the more intelligent politicians and string-pullers see most of his ridiculousness, but go along with it because of that. He’s a near-ideal sacrifice whom it makes sense to milk for as many unpopular pro-oligarch actions as possible and then later abandon.

@elbanditoroso my reply is to Zaku’s (tongue in cheek) allusion to Ivanka’s supposed Hamlet like dilemma. I think your initial question assumes a false choice. It misses Kushner’s actual function as well as that of the rest of the top tier in Trump’s retinue.

Leave the Trump’s alone. Period.

Leave them alone in a walled off compound? Sure!

What do we know about Kushner, other than that he has a lot of money? He never says very much in public.

@LostInParadise Do a Google image search for “Jared Kushner” and look at his face and feel your impressions. Even if I didn’t know he was part of the abominable circus, or anything about him but his expressions, I’d have a convincingly strong impression that he was a self-interested dishonest schemer type.

Skimming Kushner’s wiki page, I notice that he’s a real estate investor dealing with sickening amounts of money, and that he used to supposedly “be a Democrat” (as measured by giving large amounts of money to them) but then also gave lots of money to Mitt Romney’s presidential election campaign, which says to me that he’s a card-carrying member of the “I buy politicians of both parties” club.

He seems very clearly to be a creep who is in no way a public servant and the sort of person I would like to have no access to anyone in our supposedly-democratic government.

In case anyone’s interested, here is an editorial speculating and mentioning some background on Ivanka .

Oh and here is a recent article pointing out a possible severe conflict of interest for Kushner affecting the USA’s relationship with Qatar .