Are you "the invisible poor"?

I’m not debunking the concept, but if one lives a quality lifestyle, they are not poor.

My girlfriend maintains a decent apartment for us. Her standards are high and it looks very nice. But the food budget for the next week runs about eleven dollars. This is the norm.

Might add also, not many believe I / we are poor. People’s solutions tend to assume I have old money at my disposal I have a masters’ degree, I speak well, I have done more volunteer work than paying jobs. I am old enough to be a school principal and have a decent-looking car.

I drink a lot of water to stay full, and walk among shopping areas and restaurants, and eat other people’s leftovers or things they don’t want.

That’s what invisibly poor means? I never would have guessed it.

A lot of people in America overspend. I know plenty of people in debt with no savings, or not enough savings, to pay off their debt if they needed to. Many of them have very nice things. Anyone with credit card debt, who can’t pay the balance in full, who doesn’t have savings, is invisibly poor I guess. The last stat I read was that around 40% of people have credit card debt, so my guess is a large portion of that 40% are invisibly poor, because there is almost never justification to carry credit card debt if you have the money to pay it off.

What I don’t know is if they count credit card debt that will be paid off in full in the 40%. I always pay in full, but I always have credit card debt.

I’m not part of the invisible poor.

I’ve always wanted more money.

You need merely boil the question down to “are you in debt?” Then I suppose the next question should be “does your debt exceed your assets?” That makes most of us “the invisible poor”. But cheer up. More of us are increasingly destined to cross that line to visible poverty.

I am Poor’s poster child.

I think the OP is referring to people who live a life revolving around luxuries even though their income is super low. People who could care less about money but love surrounding themselves with expensive things and prefer to live in oblivion about their financial status. Although this is a pretty weird term and looks like it’s been Google translated from Chinese.

I don’t know about the US, but here some people are just obsessed with keeping up with the Joneses. They ought to be among the people with their hands on the latest luxuries. They have to spend every single penny of their monthly salary on something. They just don’t even know what “saving” means. And then they complain about being poor. But you can never know they are poor unless you are around them for a considerable amount of time, because who would have guessed that guy with that expensive car is actually living in debt?

Worse still, there is a culture that treats this kind of attitude like it’s a cute thing to do. Buying all shiny things is just a reaction and all kinds of debt and money shortage are just “fate”, it has nothing to do with people being incompetent. That’s not cute or funny, that’s freaking materialistic and stupid.

I’ve been around people like that. And most of the time they have this strange mentality that they are here to enjoy all the good things without working. Some of them even dream of rolling in money. When you question their financial problem, prepare to hear all kinds of excuse from them. Some even go so far as to become a financial vampire sucking life out of their friends. This has to stop.

Wow, @Mimishu1995, I thought that the kinds of people you describe live only in the US (i.e., people in the US have a consume, consume, consume, bigger is better, supersize me mentality), and that people in eastern cultures have more of a saving for the future mentality. But I guess a lot has changed, huh?
A financial writer once very sagely said that the way to a more comfortable and secure financial position is to stop wasting money on things you don’t need, to impress people who don’t care. A neighbor of mine just bought a Tesla. I congratulated him and actually felt happy for him. But do I care? No. Do I want one for myself? Absolutely not. I’m thinking of buying a car, but I’m leaning towards a Honda Fit. For me, it’s much more practical and it’s all I need.

The more I think about this term the more I like it.

I don’t like it and I’m not sure why. It implies that we should feel pity for them and takes away compassion for those who are poor for “realer” reasons. I think I would call it “in over their heads by choice.”

It’s a truth many americans live with. I personally live below my means. I have a decent job, no kids and cashflowed school by working so I did not need loans. I have been lucky with health so far. That said I could be one of the invisible poor almost instantly. Just takes job loss, health issues or just about any of lifes twists.

As the middle class disappears more and more of us will be in this scenario. Most people are already

My BIL has filed bankruptcy more than once and still has tons of credit card debt somehow. Always living above their means/ earning.

Frankly I don’t call them the ‘invisible poor’, I call them ‘financially irresponsible’ as all they have to do to fix their problems is stop spending money they don’t have on fancy houses, clothes, the best cars, etc…

@janbb Agreed!!!

@janbb I see your point, but I also think people who make a good living who put themselves into debt, probably are trying really hard to feel rich, or feel good about themselves by having these things they can’t afford, and telling them they are poor maybe can shock them back into reality.

I have all sorts of compassion for the poor, especially the working poor and the mentally ill who are poor. We are really letting them down in our society in more ways than one, it’s very upsetting. But, the people who make a healthy income and squander it, I do judge it. They harm themselves and society. They are an unfair burden on others. They create bubbles in the system. It’s destructive behavior.

As I write this I tend to agree with you even more, because I don’t think “poor” should be a condescending term; being poor can happen to anyone.

@Yellowdog
“I’m not debunking the concept, but if one lives a quality lifestyle, they are not poor.”

That’s why they are the invisible poor. They are living a good life, but spending money they really don’t technically have as said in the OPs question, ”...refers to people whose spending exceeds income” So they are spending more than they make. So, they aren’t technically poor in the traditional sense.

@JLeslie Some people think it’s the American Way, to have the best and newest and present a false front on your prosperity.

As one example, cell phones. My $19 LG works for me, I pay $40 a month for unlimited everything, when I could buy into the hype that I NEED a $699 for an iPhone 8 Gold. It’s my choice to spend less on non-essential services, even though I could go get one right now, I prefer to save my money.

My BIL and SIL both are extremely well shod and have all the newest of everything, while they can usually barely pay their rent (not mortgage) and are teaching their children that as well. Unfortunately.

This fits in very well with the brainwashing question. Why do you suppose it is we are convinced that we want so many things we don’t genuinely need?

The people banking money and wealth rely on those who spend it. Is it any surprise that debt is a commodity and that so many buy into it given this situation.

I’ve been very poor, but didn’t fit the stereotype of a poor person. I worked in professional capacities, I was well dressed (thanks to Goodwill,) my house was always clean, my children were well behaved and did well in school.
I got really dirty looks at the supermarket when I went food shopping after work, in my professional attire, but used food stamps. I guess they assumed I was scamming the system somehow.

@stanleybmanly Excellent marketing and endorsements by celebrities, which Americans seem to be obsessed with. I also think greed and selfishness are far to common traits.

Ha ha! Did you know you don’t genuinely need specialized trash bags? You don’t need paper towels. You don’t need foil. When I was in poverty I didn’t have any of those things.

I believe myself to be shallow rich…which works for me I have to say.

Wow. Long time no c u.

@ucme Hey buddy! :)

@allisonzhao No, I’m not invisible poor. I think/believe I have enough money for anything I need.

@Yellowdog IMHO it seems her priorities are messed up? (this is the norm)

@si3tech I’ll agree with you on that. I’m not starving my husband so I can have a nice picture on the wall…haha I wouldn’t probably have a husband long, they require good feeding! :)

@KNOWITALL The big question is can they afford the expensive phone? I wasn’t really judging how people spend their money, but if they are going into debt for it.

Being able to afford bills when those bills are paying minimum payments on credit cards, and a 6 year finance on a car, and one month out of work puts them in a precarious financial position, those people seem to not realize that they actually are not affording their lifestyle.

@SergeantQueen here’s my take to this. I’m responding to @2davidc8 too. The OP is Chinese, and the term “invisible poor“doesn’t sound familiar to our English-speaking citizen, so it’s very likely they don’t mean what they write. I think what they really mean is that the person “live a quality life” on the surface only. They look like they are living a good life because they have all the expensive things with them and are always seen spending excessively without any worry, but in reality they are dead poor and they are just lying to themselves that they are living a quality life. That’s more fitting to the term “invisible poor”. If they are really living a quality life, I don’t think they are poor either and they most likely don’t spend money on unnecessary things

From my experience, those people who do that kind of things I mentioned earlier are usually young, single and have no directisaving life. Sure @2davidc8, my culture has a savin for the family mentality, but those people don’t have a family to begin with. They aren’t bound by responsibility. They don’t know what they want in life so they just land themselves on any kind of work for money. They only have immaturity and peer pressure as the drive, and they delude themselves that they are living a good life.

Those people will most likely grow out of it when they finally settle down. But there is also a type that is so unmotivated and materialistic that they really think a life with all self-indulgence and no work is their life. They will try to do the least work possible and sometimes cling on their loved ones for more money. And that type is on the rise these days I’m afraid.

@JLeslie My BIL and his wife cannot afford the nice things they have. They get big beautiful houses and usually default on rent within a year, but for that year they had a pool and a McMansion, new cars, nice clothes, etc….

So right now my BIL is living here with a good job, sending his pay back to Belize where his wife is residing. He pays the price for her lifestyle, but stays married to her for whatever reason. She used to be really gorgeous and grew up spoilt, so I get it, but we in his family feel it’s abuse and he allows it.

@JLeslie Anyone who has a fucking credit card is not poor. Just really fucking stupid.

@Dutchess_III Basically everyone then….? lol

No way in ever hell would I have had a credit card when I was poor. I was poor, not an idiot. Even now I generally don’t use a credit card. At Christmas I’ll go into debt with Amazon, with my bad ass $5,000 credit, and I had credit at Best Buy which I used to buy my lap top. I have credit at Walmart. I have credit everywhere but I rarely use it.

Credit cards are fine if you have the discipline (and the money) to pay the entire balance every month. But as with most dealings involving banks, the people who benefit most are the people who don’t need to borrow money. We tie all of our household bills and expenses to 2 credit cards, and get this. We get all of those “cash back” deals, but never pay a dime in interest or annual fees.

Nothing wrong with the convenience of a credit card if you have the wherewithal and discipline to pay it off.

I know. And I’ve always paid whatever credit I have off. My credit score is 750 or something like that. It’s easier to stay within a budget if you just pay for the stuff at the time. If you don’t have the money, you just have to find a way to live without it until you do.

@Dutchess_III The question is about the invisible poor, not people who are actually below the poverty line. Unless, I misunderstood.

“When you look at your budget, home in on the major purchases you’re considering in the next 6 months. Ask yourself: Would this purchase affect my life next Tuesday? Very often your will realize that it wouldn’t. That’s a sign that you may be able to cut this item from your budget.
Many of our purchases have no bearing on our daily lives, and we tend to overestimate the impact of any one thing on our happiness. Try to devote extra money only to purchases that will positively affect how you spend your time.”
—Elizabeth Dunn. associate professor of psychology, University of British Columbia, co-author of Happy Money: The Science of Smarter Spending

To me “invisible poor” means someone who is poor but it isn’t all that obvious. I was well below the poverty level, but it wasn’t obvious.

No; I’m not poor at all but suddenly I’m paying for my grandson’s out of state tuition and his ruined teeth (five figures just for his teeth). HIs aunt, my younger daughter, is attempting to secure a government loan or something for me.
I’ve only been paying for three months but I don’t know how much money I’ll have by the end of the year. It’s stressful . But I helped raise him and have a feeling of compassion and even love for him. He is twenty. I am feeling optimistic which is unlike me .

@KNOWITALL By happy coincidence my dawg you see pictured is named Buddy ;-}
@Dutchess_III Like I always said…i’ll be back

Credit cards are a financial tool if used properly. They are a very dangerous tool but there are plenty of people who are not idiots and use them often. In general it’s best for most average people to just avoid debt. I personally cannot get my credit score to go above 800 without using a credit card. Charging groceries or a meal every now and then and paying it off every month breaks the 800 barrier. My wife does the the same thing and hers is like 830. Allowed us to get the lowest possible interest rate on our house which is the only debt we have.

@Dutchess_III I interpreted it as someone who spends more than they can afford, and has no money in savings. That could easily be a middle class person. I might be wrong in my interpretation though.

@JLeslie I supported 4 children, and myself, on $8,000 to $13,000 gross a year for a period of 4 years. That is not middle class. That is utter poverty and of course I had no money in savings. Look. I know how hard it is for you to understand experiences other than your own, but I do wish you would try.

I take it back..I had a Sears credit card and with it I bought a new stove when I moved to this town because the place I was renting had no stove. But that is ALL I bought with it.

^^You were visibly poor I’m assuming. Well, maybe not since you had money previously. Anyway, that might very well make you invisibly poor too, I don’t know, I don’t have a quarrel with that. My point is people with good incomes can also be invisibly poor from what I understand.

The point is a person can live as a middle class person and be financially poor. They have credit cards charged up and buy almost everything on time. They don’t really own much, it’s all actually owned by banks and slip away with one bad event.

It was visible only if people came to the house I was renting. It was a huge, 3 story house built around the turn of last century. Landlord was a slum lord so the house really needed painted bad. We got the whole bottom floor. However once you stepped through the doors it was a whole different picture. I had repainted all the rooms so they were the same neutral color. Everything was CLEAN and neat. It was really a lovely old house. You walked in to the living room and there were French doors to the right that led to a parlor or something, and another set on the wall facing you which led to a huge dining room. You went through the dining room to the hall where there were 2 bedrooms and the bathroom.
I also tore nasty carpet out of the kitchen and put linoleum in on my dime. Did all the work myself.
It had more square feet than my house in Wichita had!

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/415-Soward-St_Winfield_KS_67156_M85204-43915

People who are poor because they can’t manage their money are just fools.

There are a lot of fools then, being poor is about as much behavior as it is circumstance. For every person who is poor through no fault of their own there is another who could avoid it completely if they understood money, could delay gratification, set goals and work to improve their situation or even just live within their means.

It’s also a symptom of mental illnesses, which is interesting as so many people live above their means.

I wonder why it is so easy to forget the obvious truth. The overwhelming majority of the poor in our country are actually children.

@Dutchess_III I don’t have some sort of stereotype that the poor are messy, unclean, and that you can tell someone is poor just by looking at them when you meet on the street. I don’t assume anything about someone’s financial situation. Some of the richest people in live in small houses, wear clothes that are not to impress, and drive average cars. That’s how I want to live. I would never be one of the richest people, I don’t consider myself rich at all, but I want to live modestly, and well below my means. I’ve been doing it for two years, living in a modest house, and not spending much money, and my husband is extremely unhappy doing it. It’s about to change. I worry that he, I guess it’s we, are about to make a financial mistake, but that’s another story.

I don’t question that you were frugile, and lived on what you had. I don’t think people on this Q are focused on the poor (low income) spending money they don’t have. The OP defined invisible poor as They live a quality life but have little money in bank accounts. To me quality life implied a middle class safe neighborhood, with plenty of clothes to wear, and never a worry about their next meal until the whole facade falls apart.

@stanleybmanly What’s your point with that besides that it’s a very sad statistic? Are you saying the children are invisible? Children live in poverty, because their parents are in poverty. A child living in a middle class neighborhood with $100 sneakers and their mom drops them off at school in a brand new car doesn’t know their parents are in hock up to their eyeballs, and everything can fall apart in a day.