Can we blame The Doors (musical group) for bad grammar?
I heard the long version of Light My Fire on the radio today – what a great song, even 51 years after its release.
Here’s what bugs me – look at the third line of the first verse:
You know that it would be untrue
You know that I would be a liar
If I was to say to you
Girl, we couldn’t get much higher
The word was should be were because ‘if’ opens up the subjunctive mode. The Doors should, if they were following grammatical rules, had the verse read “If I were to say to you..”
Have two generations of rock music listeners been mis-educated by The Doors?
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49 Answers
No, because no one ever knew “The Doors”.
Yes, but they are hardly the first or only.
“Poetic license” has been employed by song-writers and singers (and poets) for like .. ever, to make a point or just make the words scan better when singing.
You can blame anyone you want to; but I’ve been listening to that song for 51 years & never paid attention because the music was so good!!! My opinion…as long as a child gets a good education & recognizes that the wording is in error then it’s no harm no foul.
Jim Morrison hung his private parts our for all the girls to see & that didn’t affect me either!!!
No. They ways in which people speak all goes back to the parents / culture.
It could be argued that was/were usage is one of class, upper-were and lower-was that The Doors likely identified with.
No @Bill1939. The word “was” worked better in the song that “were.”
Jim Morrison was stoned all the time. He didn’t give a crap about grammar.
He was a pretty unsavory character.
Actually that wasn’t one of Jim Morrison’s songs. Robby Krieger wrote ‘Light My Fire’. Although their songs were generally credited to all four members most, if not all, of their lyrics were written by ether Jim or Robby. Once one becomes acquainted enough with the Doors’ music it becomes pretty easy to tell which lyrics are Jim’s and which are Robby’s. Jim’s lyrics tended toward the more esoteric and are full of mythological and literary allusions and nautical references. Krieger’s lyrics were much more standard rock/pop style.
I’d be astonished if that song invented ignoring “were”.
Plenty of pop songs long before used sloppy slangy language, as part of trying to be hip, or just be written in a less-than-correctly-educated voice. And lazy language is an ancient thing.
@Dutchess_III How is “was” better than “were” there?
Well, just sing it both ways. The “s” in “was” flows into “say.”
(Seems to me like it works either way.)
Ether “was” or “were” works just as well for that song. I doubt it was any kind of conscience choice on Kreiger’s part. He probably just wrote in his typical “language”, so to speak.
For some reason, it only raises my ire if its a song used for educational purposes, a children’s song or educational song that has incorrect grammar. There are at least five examples I could give. (e.g. “If I was a bird I could fly to the store” or, “You and me, you and me, oh how happy we’ll be” )
“adult” music, well, the rest of us are responsible for our own speech. Folk music and Pop Music can take liberties with language and speak as common or ‘real’ people regularly do,
Everyone knows these songs are not meant to be an example of correct grammar, and that many people do use incorrect speech That’s part of who we are and how we express ourselves.
Lots of blues, jazz, and rock and roll music is full of bad grammar. Don’t make it bad music though : )
Song lyrics and poetry are exempt from rules of grammar.
My iPod has an alarming number of “Ain’t” songs by Marvin Gaye. I’d put more blame on him.
And what is it with the word ‘Ain’t’ anyway? We’ve been told it was bad for over 150 years, yet every new edition of the dictionary lists hundreds of ‘new’ words. I don’t use Aint, Caint, or words like ‘fetch’ personally because of the way I was taught
In my humble opinion, ‘ain’t’ and ‘cain’t’ and ’ are informal but not incorrect. But I don’t make the rules.
Ain’t is short for “I am not”. “I am not too proud to beg, sweet darlin” doesn’t flow like “Ain’t to proud to beg, sweet darlin”...kinda messes up the beat.
@Yellowdog How does your dog get a stick after you throw it?
@Zaku I agree with @Dutchess_III, sticking “were” in the lyrics would put a jarring “er” sound in an almost alliterative passage.
Thanks for clarifying for me @zenvelo. That’s exactly what I meant. Just don’t have the words to ‘splain.
Um no. I don’t look to The Doors for grammar lessons, although I love the music.
Who do we blame for “Wrapped up like a douche another rumor in the night”?
We blame Bruce Springsteen for that one.
Well more to the point, we blame Manfed Mann for his garbled pronunciation, but Springsteen wrote the song originally.
@Dutchess_III That’s not the lyric. Sprinsteen wrote:
Revved up like a deuce Another runner in the night
A deuce is a Ford duece coupe. (The Beach Boys sang of “Li’l Deuce Coupe”).
Lyrics are:
Bllinded by the light
Revved up like a deuce (originally “cut loose like a deuce”)
Another runner in the night
A “deuce” is shorthand for 1932 Ford “deuce coupe”, a common hot rod from the 1960s:
During the period after WWII, Model Bs and 18s were frequently rodded. This continued into the 1960s on a large scale, as noted in the hit song and as the pivotal street racing car in the film “American Graffiti”. Today, the roadster and coupe are the most sought after body styles, as these were popular for street rods and hotrods
See Quora for the full explanation
I know that you guys, although it did take the internet for me to find out what the real words are about 4 years ago.
People misunderstanding lyrics has always been a problem. There was one song when I was young “I believe in miracles, where you from you sexy thing”. A male friend asked me if “Merico” was a form of birth control. To this day, I break out in a fit of laughter whenever I hear that song. Fortunately, it’s not played that often anymore!!!
You should hear me with Long Cool Woman!
Recently I’ve been listening to “Bird On A Wire” by Joe Bonamassa & I can’t understand 2 sections of the lyrics. I found the lyrics online & printed them out. The lyrics I printed don’t seem to match with what my ears are hearing & I’m not sure which is wrong. I just sing a duet with the parts I know are right & allow Joe to sing solo on the parts I don’t know. One day I’ll figure it out!!!
If we did that to the Doors, just imagine how Roger Miller would be dealt with. rofl:)
“Fire” does contain two syllables.
I live in the Southern US & fire is 2 syllables & the name Ron is 3 syllables; so. I never knew that the Doors were incorrect…go figure!!!
The Boss says “fire” rhymes with Delilah. No more discussion.
The Pointer Sisters are always close to three syllables and sometimes approach four, but in one instance are only two
e.g. “Kisses like F-EYE-uh_Yer” (Four syllables)
But when we kiss, ooh—Fi-yer” (two syllables)
The Doors, Come baby light my fire” is more a dipthong—but does break it into almost two syllables..
Technically the word Fire is a dipthong— a sound formed by the combination of two vowels in a single syllable, in which the sound begins as one vowel and moves toward another. Some languages represent such dipthongs with a ligature (such as æ )—some dipthongs and ligatures move more towards a single sound which is a sort of transitory or transitional tone/ sound between the two vowels. “Fire” usually takes the two-vowel usage in songs, unless its a very fast or a very slow song.
To be fair, “fire” is one syllable if you’re from the south.
Where I am from, its three syllables
I’m from the South & I don’t think we can say anything in one syllable!!!
I can’t count the number of southerners I’ve heard say it like “far”.
Fyah—High southern Georgian—Sorta Gone With The WIndish
Far—pretty common in the deep south and Appalachians.
I grew up in Georgia & my Gramps who would have been 110 this year pronounced it far & it seemed a lot of people in his generation did; but most of them are no longer with us. In his defense, Gramps had to drop out of school after the 6th grade in order to run the farm. We young whippersnappers have turned it into almost 3 syllables!!!
No. Blame “The Beverly Hillbillies.”
C’mon it’s poetry.
Poetic License is a time-honored tradition of tolerating abuse of the grammar in order to make a poem/song scan better or rhyme better, and poetic license is WAY older than The Doors.
No. Art is some license so if it sells more power to you!
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