In your opinion do you think people are offended more easily today, than say five years ago?

I’ll buy that. They do seem to be more and more full of just themselves each passing day/year.

Yes people are more plugged in today.

no.

I think there is more to be offended and angry about today – or at least it’s more openly out there. I’m pretty offended and angry that an avowed American Nazi is running for Congress in Illinois.

What the hell do you mean by that!!?? And why are you looking at me that way?!

I think they are offended at the exact same rate as previously.

However, now that we have Facebook and Instagram and Twitter, people feel more at home (and have the tools) to publicize their being offended.

And people have more and more ways to be offensive.

And really.. You are giving a lot of credit to the idiots on Twitter if you think them being offended is important. 22 years ago I got offended and I threw rocks at cops and put a brick through a window at a Taco Bell. That is what being offended looks like.

Oh hell yes they do, it’s a political weapon these days. Keeping people stirred up is about the only thing that keeps certain groups relevant and in the spotlight. I felt that a lot of ground that we gained as a society has been given up once social media gave every troll, nazi, radical, activist and opportunist a voice. It’s been down hill ever since and I see no bottom to the descent.

no

Not only offended more often but indeed verbally ripped apart for disagreeing or being the wrong political party. We used to be able to agree to disagree. Now, even disagreeing with some is cause to destroy you, (and everybody who looks like you) I believe this is huge in the U.S.A. It’s like we have no shame. Our morals are being destroyed by this hatred. And I believe much of this hatred is politically motivated.

People are learning how to weaponize political correctness against free speech.

No. I think people are more comfortable (with the ease of use of the internet) in making their views known. When peopl3 accuse someone of being “offended”, in that sneery, eye-rolling way, it indicates to me that they are likely annoyed at being called out about their own insensitivity.

@janbb

Who’s the Nazi running for Congress in IL?

Arthur Jones

There has been a push to make people more offended than there was, say, 20 years ago. People get offended if you voice an opinion they don’t agree with. People get offended if you call them “mister” but they want to identify as a “miss”. People get offended over the goofiest stuff. But worse yet, I think, is that there is a push to try punishing people if someone says they offended them. Time to relax, take a deep breath, recognize the world doesn’t revolve around you, and get over it.

Wow, @seawulf575 you and I don’t agree on much,but I really liked that answer.

And those darn kids won’t get off our lawn!

I think in some cases, it’s that people who have been historically on the receiving end of certain kinds of harmful language and treatment now have better means to confront such language, such treatment, and to ask others to do something uncomfortable: reflect on their own actions and beliefs. People call such confrontation “taking offense” to minimize its significance; conveniently, too, they then don’t have to reflect on their own conduct, sense the person calling it out was merely being “overly sensitive” or some similarly dismissive description.

I think in other cases, we have people who are feeling more liberated to say and behave in ways that are offensive—by that, I mean language and behavior that inflicts some kind of cost or harm on someone else. Voicing and/or acting on prejudices comes to mind. I’m not actually sure if it is more prevalent than in the past or not, but it sure seems alarmingly prevalent for 2018.

But are we really getting more easily offended overall? I think in many cases we’re less offended, simply because we are more familiar and comfortable with certain aspects of diversity (because at some point in history, people willing to confront such issues fought for that respect). Think: marrying someone of a different race or culture, or marrying someone of the same sex, or living with a significant other that you’re not married to. Think: women wearing pants (literally and figuratively), or even (gasp!) daring to show ankles. If I spent a little longer, could go on and on; those are just the easiest to bring to mind immediately. Plop someone from the not-too-distant past into today’s world, I imagine they’d be finding themselves “offended” quite often.

It’s not about being “offended”. People who feel that people are more sensitive now are likely being pushed into acknowledging how fucking privileged they are.

The most offended are those who are called the fuck out.

{{{Hugs notnotnotnot}}}

No. Maybe if you go back 30 years, but 5 years ago it was similar to today.

Possibly, in some corners of the country it has changed in 5 years.

That is quite tricky to answer. Normally, it would have to depend on each individual as they have their own specific issue that they’re more sensitive about, and let’s not forget that sometimes people will have bad days and become easily provoked. In general, I feel that it is the same. People have been easy to offend to begin with anyway.

Back in the day you would have had to put effort into voicing your offence.
Write an angry letter to the newspaper, pick up the phone and complain to the TV or Radio station, make a picket sign and go to the street, get together with like-minded people, don some ghost costume and lynch black people.

Today all you have to do is write an angry tweet, or an incensed youtube comment.

People are not more easily offended today.
It is just a lot easier to make your opinions public and visible to everyone.

I think people are more easily offended, and I think many people are picking political fights with strangers because they feel they have a reason. There’s calls to bring back The Jeffersons and Archie Bunker right now to teach people that we actually can offend each other and just move along.

Remember when Life of Brian was banned in several western countries, because it was too offensive to religious people?

@ragingloli – I do indeed remember that. And now, at least in the US, it shows on the late night cable movie channels and no one cares.

I didn’t like it because I thought it was a poor movie in general, not because of religion.

I think people have a lower tolerance for hatred and bigotry and that that often gets misconstrued as being “easily offended.”

Sorry, racist jokes aren’t funny anymore! Get a better sense of humor!

@Mariah What’s racist though? Is Seinfeld’s depiction of his parents racist? Or, Ray Ramano’s in Everybody Loves Raymond? Margaret Cho in her stand up when she talks like her mom? Or, it’s ok if it’s one of their own doing the joking? I remember Rosie O’Donnell being slammed for doing a Chinese mimic, but Cho does it all the time, although she’s Korean I think, but same idea.

@JLeslie It’s the double-standard. We can say it, you can’t. Same ol lame excuses for poor behavior. And that’s a bipartisan issue btw.

@JLeslie and @KNOWITALL – You’re making this far more complicated than it should be. And in the process, you’re missing the point.

Conservatives and liberals tend to argue about identity politics in terms of language policing. Language becomes the means and the ends, which is pathetic and a complete distraction.

Rather than concern yourself about memorizing rules and terms that you can an cannot say, look at the reasons why someone might take issue with certain words or language. Rather than cry victim because you see a “double-standard” concerning in-group and out-group language, try to understand why this is the case.

It’s pretty easy to see that using the n-word spoken by an African American to another African American means something completely different than the n-word spoken by a white European American to an African American. I needn’t go into why this is, unless you’ve forgotten the history of this country up to the present.

But it doesn’t stop there. Calling out someone for using racist terminology isn’t (or shouldn’t be) about telling people what words they can and can’t use. It’s about calling someone out on the fact that they are either racist or ignorant. In 2018 if you are white and decide to call an AA the n-word, it means that you are either a racist piece of shit or you are completely ignorant of why this would be a problem. Either way, an education is well overdue.

The end goal isn’t for white racists to walk around using pc language as to not offend someone. The end goal of discussion about language is to discuss the reason such language exists and how power differences and issues of justice are tied to these “offensive” terms.

So, yes – if you see this as some kind of game where you need to memorize who can and cannot say what, you’re missing the point, and you’re part of the problem. This is why the rich northern polite liberal, sipping their coffee and talking about policing language can be as much of a problem as conservatives who are scared about an impending march towards authoritarian language police.

And one approach might be to listen. If a community says that a term offends them when used by another group, then listen to their concerns, rather than to take offense. Conservatives shape their identity in large part by claiming victimization to progress while simultaneously asserting that they’re not the ones who are fragile and prone to language policing.

@notnotnotnot You truly have no clue if you believe a rapper using that word isn’t perpetuating the use of the word.

^ see

@KNOWITALL: ”@notnotnotnot You truly have no clue if you believe a rapper using that word isn’t perpetuating the use of the word.”

Are you trolling, or are you really ignorant of racism, US history, the concept of in-group language and its utility?

And did you bother to read what I just wrote?

@notnotnotnot I am not trolling, I’ve been here over five years now (see my lurve?)

I’m not ignorant and I believe what I said.

@notnotnotnot I was not thinking double standard. I completely agree that if a group takes offense to something then that’s what matters. They have the history, they know if they are offended. Within the group there can be variations though. Some people within the group might not find what was said or done as a big deal, but if the overwhelming majority do, then I’m with them, I support them, and I think we should all care enough to change if we are using that language or behavior.

I do think it’s a mistake to use the word nigger period. Look at what you wrote. You don’t even spell it out. If it’s not ok to write or to say even when just talking about the word, then probably we should get rid of it. I don’t hear any Jews using the word Kike, and Mexicans using the word wetback, or any Italians using the word WOP, and you know what, I bet a lot of people 20 years old and under have never even heard those terms, except maybe in literature, and I think that’s a very good thing. I think defending black people using the word nigger is giving them bad advice. Of course they can do what they want, but I feel it is counterproductive.

Obviously, part of what makes something said racist is the intent, but like you said often there is no mal-intent, but rather ignorance. The offended people need to really know that, and they don’t often take the time to find out the intent.

My Mexican MIL is very bothered that Trump talks the way he does about Mexicans. She also is really bothered that people think everyone coming across our southern border is Mexican. I do know people who are nit racist who call everyone from Latin American Mexican, and for the life of me I do not understand how that ever developed, except as you say, out of ignorance. Then there are also bigots who say “Mexican” in a derogatory way. My husband would say Mexican with pride, it’s his country, and so is America.

Ok, so the other day my inlaws are with me at a dance class, and a Korean woman in the class goes over to them to say hello. She barely speaks English, and my inlaws barely speak English also. Lol. My inlaws are telling me about it after clas and my MIL calls the her Chinese. I tell her Korean, and my FIL says, “oh, yes, she said she is from Korea.” My MIL calls her Chinese 2 or 3 more times during the next few minutes of conversation. I corrected her again, and then finally I said, “calling her Chinese isn’t much different than people calling everyone who speaks Spanish with dark hair Mexican. She realized I was making a valid point. What she probably didn’t realize is that what bothers me most about the whole thing is that she is so easily offended and assuming malicious intent.

I’ll also mention that sometimes “white” liberal Americans are more upset than the actual group that was supposedly offended. People are freaking out the last ten years.

In closing, I’m all for being kind to each other, for letting people know when they have said something that might be taken badly so they can learn a better way, and for pointing out bigoted behavior, but I’m not fond of the current level of hate and anger on any side.

The racist people don’t give a shit no matter what you tell them. Then there are a whole bunch of people who aren’t racist, but just seem to lack understanding. We can work on them if we don’t call them names and don’t treat them badly.

@JLeslie Spot on. Even my liberal friends agree with us on this.

@JLeslie: “I think defending black people using the word nigger is giving them bad advice. Of course that can do what they want, but I feel it is counterproductive.”

Your opinion (or my opinion) about how African Americans use the n-word means shit. You don’t get to have an opinion on the matter. If you feel upset about that, then figure out why that is. Hint: check your melanin.

I highly recommend, however, that you look into how oppressed groups co-opt language and use it for solidarity and group cohesion (like “dyke”, “queer”, n-word, etc). I’m surprised this is such a new concept for you.

@KNOWITALL: ”@JLeslie Spot on. Even my liberal friends agree with us on this.”

Of course they do.

^^I’m not upset about black people using the word nigger, they can do what they want. I’m just stating my opinion for them.

I am part of a group that has been oppressed, led to slaughter, hated, enslaved, and terrorized. I don’t see my group choosing to use words that have been used by antisemites in the past. It’s what my group has chosen to do. If black people want to do something different have at it, but in my experience educated, successful, happy, African Americans don’t do it. We, Jewish people, do sometimes use words like JAP, although I haven’t heard it much lately, I have used it sometimes myself, but it would never occur to me to use kike, the expression “jew the price down,” and whatever shitty expressions there are.

I already agreed with you that the group gets to choose, but I would say look at examples of successful groups and see what they do. Asians, they don’t call themselves condescending terms as far as I know. Educated, happy, successful black people whom I know don’t use the word nigger. I’m sure you can find me an example of some rich African Americans who use the word nigger, but if they are somewhat of an anomaly then that is worth paying attention to. I have no idea what the statistics on that. I have no idea how much it is really used, I only have my own personal experience, which isn’t worth much when it comes down to it.

I’m certainly not the end all be all of who should do what. I remember being surprised gay people adopted the word gay, but the history of that word is nothing like the n-word.

If you’re thinking I’m a right winger walking around being a racist trying to justify my actions you are completely wrong. Remember I’m married to a Mexican, he was raised Catholic. I’m Jewish, raised in the northeast. I’ve been a registered Democrat since the first time I registered to vote. I have never voted for a republican for president, although I’m not against the idea for the right person. I grew up in what is often cited as the most diverse city in America, Gaithersburg, MD. Believe me, my peers weren’t even thinking race, religion, or ethnicity among ourselves. Except to say we did know what each other was more or less. It was like knowing I’m a girl and he’s a boy. She’s Jewish he’s Muslim. She’s Argentinian, he’s Italian. She’s Black, he’s white. We were all the same and all different and I’m extremely grateful I grew up that way.

I’m just curious, are you part of a group that has been repeatedly oppressed? Did you grow up knowing there are people throughout history who hated you just for being born? Did you feel vulnerable in your place of worship?

@JLeslie: “I’m just stating my opinion for them.”

That’s quite clear.

@JLeslie: “I am part of a group that has been oppressed, led to slaughter, hated, enslaved, and terrorized. I don’t see my group choosing to use words that have been used by antisemites in the past. It’s what my group has chosen to do. If black people want to do something different have at it, but in my experience educated, successful, happy, African Americans don’t do it.”

This is making me a bit sick, honestly.

^^You didn’t answer my question.

Anyway, never mind. People can say whatever they want, especially among there own. It’s fine to have a “double standard” so to speak. I can call a woman bitchy and get away with it, but I’m not fond of a man saying it. It’s the same sort of thing. I understand that believe me.

@KNOWITALL @JLeslie

I do think there is a point to be had that when someone speaks or behaves in racist ways does so out of ignorance, that it’s probably a better strategy to approach them. I don’t think anyone would really disagree with that…

At the same time, if we leave it there, it also feels like only half the point is being made. It feels like the responsibility for that conversation’s success is being placed solely on the shoulders of the person who receives the (in this case unintentional) racial slight. It feels like we’re forgetting there is someone else involved in that conversation’s going south, if/when it goes south—namely, the person who got angry at hearing the word “racism.”

Is it any more okay to get angry over hearing that word than it is to hear or experience the actual racism? Whether someone means it or not, whether they know what they’re doing or not, the problem with racism is that it causes harm. If we keep acting like the identifying label to a problem hurts more than the problem itself, how can we really have a meaningful conversation about it?

And why is the person ignorant? Almost certainly because they occupy a position in society (for whatever reason) that allows them to be ignorant of something that is all-too-real and all-to-present for those who experience it firsthand—their ignorance is a privilege afforded them by the structure of our culture/society.

I think putting the burden on the person at the receiving end of the racism also ignores something else: that person has been on the receiving end of racism before this hypothetical encounter, and many times at that. After a certain point, the pattern would start to feel deliberate—and again, whether the person means the racist thing or not, it would carry with it the pain of that racism all the same.

I don’t see myself having the kind of patience it would require to always absorb those sleights and then presume (and hope) the person was only being that way unintentionally, and then go on trying to teach them—without saying the “racism” word, which will almost certainly set them off whether they meant to be or not—that their behavior in that moment causes harm (which in this case was directed my way). Maybe when I’m having a good day I could react that way. But to always have that responsibility placed on me by a culture that has a habit of ignoring its own shortcomings, especially the shortcomings that come at my expense? I couldn’t do that every day.

Luckily for me, I don’t have to worry about that. Not for race. Not really for anything. I’m one of the privileged ones who could walk around totally colorblind and unaware.

I try hard not to be. Not because it’s “pleasant” to learn about all the ways I was ignorant about things that had been going on around me—it can be uncomfortable—but because it’s my responsibility as a member of this society to know better. It’s my responsibility to not walk around perpetuating historic injustices (in the things I support, the words I choose, the actions I perform).

I guess my point is that if someone says “that’s racist,” or “you’re being racist,” or even “you’re racist” (the “you” isn’t directed at anyone here, I’m just using the second person for effect)—well, it seems that the point is that it’s pretty easy to say in response, “I’m sorry, I didn’t know.” And maybe even, “Could you explain it to me?”

Anyway, that’s my take on the “second half” of the point.

@JLeslie That’s swell that it’s okay with you about double standards, and it might be alright for others. But it isn’t for me, and may not be for others, so speak for yourself!
I feel that “what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.” “Treat others as you would have them treat you.” “Set a good example.” “Practice what you preach.”
Don’t be selectively ignorant.

@kritiper I agree, practice what you preach. Golden rule. I couldn’t agree more. Best to just be kind to everyone. That way you set the example also. That’s part of my original point about not using words you don’t want others to use.

@Soubresaut I don’t put the whole burden on the one being offended. Like I said (I think in my first answer) the person being told they are saying or doing something offensive should care. They need to believe the person being offended is right. They should want to change. They may not change on a dime, but that can be a start to gathering information once told.

I’m not defending the person saying or doing the racist thing just because the person had no bad intent. My MIL needs to refer to the Korean girl as Korean, not Chinese. If my MIL doesn’t remember which country she can say Asian. But, at this point she knows damn well she is not Chinese, and she is using the word Chinese like a catch all for anyone who looks Asian, not because she really thinks the girl is Chinese. It doesn’t sound nice to my ear, it sounds racist. Mind you she is speaking in Spanish, and for whatever reason it sounds even worse in Spanish. That also goes back to what @kritiper said about the golden rule. My MIL needs to do what she expects from others, and for some reason she has trouble seeing herself in the mirror all too often. The hypocrisy is frustrating, because it’s constant. It’s exhausting.

I’m not sure which position in society you are referring to? You mean just being a white Christian in America? Or, are you talking about social class too? Ignorance, in my opinion, more likely comes from not being exposed to a lot of diversity, and not having been corrected.

I deal with it more than you might think. Right now in the day of Trump, with all these Trump supporters around me, they talk about immigration, using the word criminals, and all sorts of shit, around me not knowing I’m married to a Mexican man. Even before Trump, people would say derogatory things about Mexicans around me, or sometimes I would stop them mid sentence, and “help” them by saying, “be careful, my husband is Mexican.” I’ve done that regarding me being Jewish too. Enlightened them in some way. Well, hopefully they were enlightened—learned something. As a woman too. Don’t touch me, don’t speak to me that way, dont call me that, don’t don’t don’t. It can be exhausting, I don’t disagree. So, I speak from some experience, but I’m not trying to compare myself to the black experience, or any other specific group, I’m just saying I have some experience with that sort of thing. It’s annoying that people think I don’t.

Do you know how many black peoples I know who were angry gay people call gay rights issues civil rights issue? Those black people think they own the title civil rights. Or, how many black people I know who don’t think the Jewish experience can empathize somehwhat with the minority experience? I find those things to be ignorant, dismissive, and it can sometimes feel bigoted, and in fact some of those people are bigots. I am not painting all black people as doing these things, I’m saying I know enough that it’s a thing, and it’s annoying because they fight this type of garbage themselves. They are hypocrites. The majority of black people do get it I think.

I’m friends with two women here where I live. Those two are inseparable when the one from the UK is in town. One day, the one who lives here, Jane, says to me, do you know Sally (I’m changing the names) is Muslim? I said, “yes, of course.” Jane says, “don’t tell my husband, he doesn’t like Muslims.” [So I’m in my head WTF that is pretty disappointing] I told Jane that’s probably the very reason he should know Sally is a Muslim, because he likes her, she has proven to be a wonderful friend, good natured, giving, high integrity, and that might show him he’s an idiot. I didn’t quite say it that way, I didn’t use the word idiot. His wife can take on the burden of educating her husband, it doesn’t have to always be the people in the minority groups. We can all do it. It’s my opinion that anger in one’s tone doesn’t do it as well as being calm.

It wasn’t an Asian person who taught me to stop using the word Oriental, it was in a diversity training class 25 years ago at work. Another example: I hadn’t thought about my Jr. High’s mascot possibly offending Native Americans, until that started to be a topic discussed among many. For me, “Warriors” was no different than “Fighting Irish.” I had only positive connotation of Native Americans in my head. People need to be told somehow, or they stay ignorant. Whether it’s a news story, friend, spouse, fluther, there are all sorts of ways to be learning how to be better.

@Soubresaut Racists are not just ignorant, it’s willful ugliness and they raise their families to feel the same. Trust me.

@KNOWITALL I’m not so sure “they raise their families to feel the same” implies a willingness to garner hate. But, perhaps, in some instances that is true. They raise their families not being aware of exactly what they’re making their families feel. Ugliness, yes, but willful? Maybe not so much. That’s where the ignorance comes in.
My father used to tell racist jokes to our family (everybody everywhere did/does it) but I don’t think there was any hate involved.

@kritiper All I’m saying is that if papaw is racist, quite often the younger members of the family have also been convinced he’s right. See it all the time.

Racist jokes are one thing, teaching hate and racism is another.

@KNOWITALL That ^ says it better, since there is a difference.

Racist jokes are one thing, teaching hate and racism is another.

Same fucking thing..