How do proponents of rolling back Medicare and other "entitlement" programs expect seniors to survive?

The response that I always get, is get a job that has health insurance (*yes, work indefinitely *.)
They don’t seem to care, about the circumstances the individuals are experiencing, that led to the need for aid.
If they have their heads above water, everyone should be able to. They greatly oversimplify, and/or misrepresent the plight of those who need such programs. I’m sure there are a small amount of exceptions that the right uses to misrepresent the majority….

If some don’t know someone who has had their life ruined by a random medical event, that’s good. It happens ALL THE TIME though…

Before Social Security and Medicare, old was a synonym for destitution in this country, and the answer to your question is that proponents for rolling back the programs aren’t particularly interested in what happens to those affected EXCEPT for the fact that they vote in droves!

I saw an article today, about the amount of people who are about to enter the 60–80 year old group. They are predicted to require LOTS of money, to maintain. I don’t consider this age group “extremely” old anymore, but hip replacements, and procedures in general, will be required for some. Followed by physical therapy, or other post procedure requirements.

The main thing again, is those who would roll.back these options for aid, DON’T GIVE A FUCK , about anyone but themselves….

There are supposedly many local tax supported programs for the elderly, plus many different charities and people should be able to count on relatives and family for help.

The problem with these resources is they are split up all over the place. I have an entire catalog full of phone numbers that purport to provide help. Each one carries a different set of rules for eligibility and forms to fill out and documents to supply, and so on.

The people who are supposed to help you are frequently volunteers who are not well trained,and they often misplace your files, or otherwise fail to be helpful.

Many of the programs listed have waiting lists that run unto the hundreds, or are no longer taking new applicants, but they are still listed.

An acquaintance of mine asked her elected representative for help finding affordable housing. She was given a list of a dozen senor apartments. after several hours of calling over the next few days, she discovered not a single one of the was even adding to their extensive waiting list.

^Mmm hmm.

I always heard that most financial aid was intentionally frustrating, and difficult to acquire. There was I time that I didn’t believe that…

Those eager to pull the plug on the Federal safety net invariably toss up the wide availability of charitable programs in the private sector. The cutback crowd is also notorious for pimping themselves off as “people of faith” and pretend that faith based charities will “pick up the slack”. My view is that any public official advocating such measures be required to look to such organizations to provide his or her salary.

What makes you think they’d like us to survive?

“At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge, ... it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.”
“Are there no prisons?”
“Plenty of prisons…”
“And the Union workhouses.” demanded Scrooge. “Are they still in operation?”
“Both very busy, sir…”
“Those who are badly off must go there.”
“Many can’t go there; and many would rather die.”
“If they would rather die,” said Scrooge, “they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.”
—Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol (1843)

Exactly @stanleybmanly ,I too would like to see the people that advocate the charities and private sector for people on fixed income that can not afford your healthcare system and the ridiculous over priced insurance try it them selves .

Regardless of their numbers and their dusturbing propensity to vote, we should gear up to expect overall indoctrination around the concept that the elderly are no longer “affordable”. That’s an interesting word-unaffordable. We use it all the time for things like rent, college, health care. Eventually these things will be accepted for the luxuries they obviously are and old folks can be lumped in with the rest. Grandpa will be up there with that Ferrari I fantasized over-another foolish extravagance.

Both of those programs require that taxes be levied on income. If you have paid into those programs or are the beneficiary of someone who has then you are “entitled” to the benefits just like anyone with an insurance policy. That’s really what those programs are anyway just federally administered. The people who take issue with social programs like this believe that some do not pay their fair share or any share at all and frankly some don’t. Ideologically speaking rolling back benefits to those who have not contributed almost makes sense, except when it doesn’t. Society should have safety nets otherwise it’s not much of a society. The elephant in the room is not really the programs, it’s the cost of healthcare which is obscene. Why can’t we fix that?

It can be fixed and IS—everywhere but here.

When I first went to work, I contacted the Social Security Administration requesting that I be able to put the funds they were deducting into a money market account in my name. I was told NFW & that by law I was required to pay Social Security because it was going to take care of me in my old age.I’m sorry, with the stipend they give us I don’t consider it “taking care of me”!!! At one point I figured out an estimate of what I had paid in without interest & the average of what they are paying out at this point. It came to that I could live to be 150 before I’d break even & that is an Interest FREE loan that I gave the government. On top of that, I’m paying $125/month for health insurance.I think everybody on Social Security should be able to sue the government for wasting the money that we loaned them!!!

I’ve already figured out that they are praying that we all die…sooner than later!!!

@stanleybmanly Sort of, but not really. What has happened is the high prices Americans pay to medical and pharma companies is indirectly subsidizing other countries that have been able to negotiate prices down. They are in the politicians pockets here so…

On credit then declare bankruptcy. Putting the family home up for sale and living on mac and cheese and baloney sandwiches. Maybe the parents will move home with their children. Working till the grave as a Wal-Mart greeter for $15 an hour. The new minimum wage. Having medical costs financed over time to pay as they can…

@LadyMarissa I feel you, if there was an opt out option I would have jumped on it. Problem is everyone would have and there would be nothing to prop the system up. It can’t last and we all know it but after 25 years of paying in something had better F’ing be there if I’m lucky enough to grow old and need it. It’s like the coffee fund at work that gets raided periodically to pay for doughnuts. The money was for coffee but someone always figures out that the cheapest swill that passes for coffee would leave money on the table for something else. Worst yet the coffee fund just gets filled with IOUs or flat out stolen by someone who wants a candy bar out of the vending machine. Suddenly the cost to participate in the office coffee pool goes up.
As silly as the coffee scenario is it’s what the “haters” are really against and not so much the people who need benefits but have not contributed 100%. Nothing wrong with such a system if it’s run properly and efficiently.

We all know that Social Security and Medicare are not entitlements and at this moment I have paid into it for 44 years. But apparently the rich do not agree with us people who have earned the right to retire without dropping dead at our job at age 83 because we can’t afford to retire. One of the biggest things we can do is to really check the backgrounds and how the people that are shaping our laws have voted in the past and stop letting them run the country just because “they’ve been in congress for 30 years, might as well vote for him again.”

@LadyMarissa :: How much cash did you have when you retired? Maybe you are more responsible.

Part of nice thing about Social Security is it forces you to save and you can not pull it out until you are ready. Good on you if you had enough cash that you would have never pulled out cash from your hypothetical money market account.

The problem is people want cars and houses they can’t afford. So even if they tucked some cash away they would eventually dip into it. People lose jobs and shit.

@chyna I don’t think you know what the word “entitlement” means…

@gorillapaws I feel they mean it this way: the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
“no wonder your kids have a sense of entitlement” ·
From your response I must have interpreted it incorrectly.

The few people I’ve had a conversation with about eliminating SS are assuming people will save enough money for themselves. I point out we know a big percentage of Americans suck at saving, and many actually live in debt, even if they have good incomes, big houses and fancy cars. So, that argument is half baked in my mind. Others have said SS is extra money to buy things for grandkids. Extra maybe for some people, but many people rely on it. All sorts of garbage in my opinion.

As far as Medicare, I don’t know if I know anyone wanting to dismantle it altogether. I live in a fairly conservative area, lots of Trump people here, and they all count the days to turn 65 for their Medicare. I do hear people wanting to change it. They want to allow negotiating for medication prices, and to crack down on fraud. Both sound good to me. My guess is people against Medicare believe the free market is what will bring down healthcare costs.

@LadyMarissa I’d love to see that math, because I don’t believe it, but I’m interested to be proven wrong.

Ice flows are for the elderly.

THANK GOD I AM CANADIAN!!!!

@chyna The term basically means that the benefits are guaranteed if you’ve qualified. For example, if you’ve served in the military you are guaranteed certain benefits (healthcare, higher education). I don’t think anyone would refer to vets as having a “sense of entitlement.” They get those benefits because they qualify, they’re entitled to them. The right has done a masterful job of distorting the term in the media and public perception to cast a negative connotation to it.

This might be off subject I’m not sure. Just so you know, I’m surrounded by republicans, many of whom say negative things about social programs, but they work the system. That’s part of the reason they accuse others of working the system, they are projecting. They pay lawyers money to learn how to take advantage of Medicaid, how to give away their money, set up trusts,etc.

US citizens paid into SS and Medicare, so now they are entitled to get something out of it. Of course if the benefits are cut and elderly people can’t survive, there will be more left for the rest of us.

that’s what you’re supposed to believe—that “the rest of us” will benefit. The truth is that the rest of us will get old & that money we will supposedly save will wind up in the pockets of the 1% like all of the money that formerly circulated around the formerly prosperous middle class. It is the requirement that those pockets be stuffed regardless of consequences which renders the elderly (and everyone else) disposable.

Thanks for the answers all. Per @Jeruba‘s comment “What makes you think they’d like us to survive?” I am suffering under no such delusion. I consider economic libertarianism to be a cancer to this country.

But I thought maybe I just don’t have the full story, maybe there are libertarian groups out there who have made proposals to roll back Medicare that include a plan for seniors that isn’t utterly merciless. I was curious whether such a proposal exists and what it looks like if so, but I would not be the least bit surprised if it does not exist.