Do you think tattoos violate the biblical directive?

I know many Jews who survived World War II (Nazi concentration camps) who had their prisoner numbers tattooed on their arms. They have told their children (and grandchildren) NOT to get tattoos because it brings back memories of the war and their time in the camps.

As for Leviticus – I’m not sure that that’s a guiding verse for a lot of people.

Are you Christian? Then, no. Jesus dying for our sins tended to wipe out the st.rictures of the odd rules of the Old Testament, including things like circumcision, dietary restrictions, and the like.

If you’re Jewish, yeah, the tattoo is definitely out.

The tattoos and cuttings referred to in Leviticus were associated with paganism and death cults, and was addressing a specific issue at the time. Jews were called out to be different.

I don’t think it is relevant anymore for that reason.

Another example of pick and choose religion. It says it’s a sin, it’s a sin, just like everything else in Leviticus.

Am I a sinner for not rendering to Caesar? He’s dead, Jim.

I don’t believe in sin. Next question, Susan.

I started thinking about all the things that keep people from wanting to go to church, and this was just another. Not to mention the fashion show, the fancy cars – the pageantry of it, which is a major turn off to me. (You know we’re supposed to be humble, too.)

I’m curious where the line is on judging other people, loving thy neighbor as thyself, and then things like this. And if Jesus came to abolish the old laws, why would anyone bring this up as a sin today. People just baffle me with their arrogance and judgement of others.

When did it become our job as human beings to judge each other’s supposed ‘sins’?
If the bible is contradictory, why would anyone do that anyway? Literally push people out the doors then wonder why so many churches are shutting down permanently.

I think it is definitely honored still among Orthodox Jews. I know a relative of a friend who had to have her tattoo removed in order to marry an Orthodox Jew.

Not my belief, of course.

A bit off topic, but the Christians appear to be changing….

No, I don’t think it’s a “sin.”

I think that 100% of us violate Biblical Directives 90% of the time.

If tattoos are a sin for modern Christians, then so is eating pork and shellfish and wearing clothing of mixed fibers and various other prohibitions found in Mosaic Law. (Extremely ironic is the man with a tattoo, “Leviticus 18:22” on their arm—the anti-homosexuality “clobber” passage). @Yellowdog is definitely correct about the origin of the prohibition: setting the Israelites apart. And it would seem these highly specific prohibitions don’t have much relevance in the life of the Christian.

But the relevance of Mosaic Law in Christians’ lives seems to be something that’s still debated today and never been fully resolved. The 10 Commandments are still considered relevant, but other parts of the Pentateuch are not. I had one Christian tell me that it was only the “moral” parts of Leviticus and not the “ceremonial” parts that are still relevant (but where in the Bible does it say that?)

Paul was adamant that these stipulations of the law no longer applied, but that wasn’t necessarily Jesus’ view:

Galatians 3:23–25 “Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.”

Matthew 5:17–18 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.”

I guess my take is that if you are a Christian and feel that getting a tattoo is a sin, don’t do it. If you are not a Christian and don’t care what the bible says, it doesn’t matter. If you have tattoos and decide to follow Christ, relax…you are forgiven even if it is a sin.

LOL! It ain’t no thang!

I probably wouldn’t get a tattoo anyway, but being Jewish is more of a reason not too. Partly the religion and partly the tradition since the Holocaust. You know I’m not religious, but it still matters to me. Some Jewish cemetaries or rabbis supposedly won’t bury a Jewish person with tattoos in a Jewish cemetery, I think that varies though.

I didn’t play the wedding march at my wedding either, because of the Holocaust Wagner thing. Nobody at my wedding was a Holocaust survivor, although there was at least one child (adult of course) of a survivor that I knew of, but I still preferred not to play it.

I’m torn whether I would be willing to be cremated. In Judaism that’s sort of along the same lines regarding the body being intact I think. Maybe?

I care what the people left behind would want. If my grandmother were still alive and I died I would want to be buried for her. I know it would bother her a lot of I was cremated. She wasn’t a particularly religious woman, but she cared about the burial, especially for her own mourning, her own closure.

The Jews were also given water to drink. Should you boycott water?

^^Who is boycotting? WTH? I’m not telling other people not to use the wedding march and not tto get tattoos, except maybe Jews say it among ourselves for awareness, and then the individual can decide. I’ve never heard a Jewish person tell some not Jewish to not get a tattoo for Holocaust reasons, it’s always an explanation of why they don’t do it themselves. They aren’t asking for everyone in the world to take a stand by not tattooing themselves. It’s similar to veteran families here who don’t set off fire works if the noise triggers PTSD. I live in a place with a high concentration of war veterans. Of course, that noise travels far, so it’s difficult to get away from it this time of year.

I don’t see how you compare water to being branded and kept as a slave worker or prisoner and having your family killed. Or, having to hide out in terror every day for years. Seriously? Do you know any Holocaust survivors?

I know Jewish people who have tattoos, and that’s fine. Jews who know full well why other Jewish people wouldn’t. Their body their decision. They look at it differently.

I wasn’t starting a movement. Just saying that I don’t really see the logic.
If you said Jews won’t get serial numbers tattooed on their arms, that would make more sense, to me…

@MrGrimm888 Actually the Orthodox wedding one was the first time I’ve heard of it. I’m sure there are plenty of Jews who have tattoos. Judaism has such a broad spectrum of adherents that there is no generalization that holds for them – except perhaps about mayonnaise! :-)

@KNOWITALL I started thinking about all the things that keep people from wanting to go to church

Like prostrating yourself before imaginary super beings who can see your tattooes?

Jews still are living under God’s covenant and there are things I would understand that Jews would be required to do or find obligatory if only to identify themselves as Jewish PEOPLE even if they don’t believe in God.

But again—the Levitical laws were written for the Jewish NATION (the ancient one) to distinguish themselves from other nations and peoples around them. Yes, we have an Israel today—but it was not set up as a theocracy and not all citizens are even Jewish.

Many Jews and Christians have beliefs about desecrating the body, which was designed by God, or other personal beliefs. But the passage was written to distinguish Jews from pagans who had tattoos for religious reasons and they became the vogue of the day.

Over my head….

Not your question, either.

Questions about carburetors or how to clean refrigerator coils (if they have them) are beyond anything I can even listen to.

@Yellowdog Then later the Christians did things to distinguish themselves from the Jews actually. Interesting how the groups did that.

I remember reading years ago that the new group identifications were seen in fashion. Preppy, or punky, or certain designers like wearing that Ralph Lauren polo horse. Whatever was popular back then in the early 80’s. The author of the article felt it was somewhat replacing religion. I guess also race maybe? My feeling was it still marked social class in many ways though.

@janbb Right about the mayo. I just linked that funny article about foods Jews don’t eat this morning for a Facebook friend.

What does the wedding march have to do with anything?

@Dutchess_III – one of the most commonly played wedding marches was composed by Richard Wagner. He was a notorious anti-semite in Germany, and much of his music was co-opted by Hitler as patriotic hymns for the Third Reich.

Because of those associations, many Jews will not abide or use anything composed by Wagner.

Ah. Well! I agree with the Jews, then! Thank you.

If anything does….............................

@janbb Mayonnaise?

@Adagio. It’s a joke because traditionally Jewish people don’t put mayonnaise on meat sandwiches.

This is ,at least, the third thread (not involving food) where mayonnaise is actually a important part of life. It can tell you a lot about a situation…

Very interesting…

#Whoknewboutmayo?

^^Here’s the funny article if you haven’t seen it yet. It seems a lot of people are not in on the joke.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4848417

Religious people are SO weird. Well. Interesting….

No mayo, no mustard? How the hell are they supposed to get a good sandwich?

No one said anything about no mustard! It’s just usually not the yellow kind.

Isn’t most mustard a shade of yellow? Wasn’t there a series of novels, called “50 Shades of Mustard?”

Look at Gulden’s Spicy Brown Mustard. This is just custom; no big deal.

I actually prefer a spicy brown mustard. But there’s still some yellow…

I second “Religious people are so weird!” Even me, when I was religious. I was weird!

I didn’t mean it as an insult. I am very interested in speaking with theists, but I often just insult them, even when trying to be genuinely interested…

^^^ In asking innocent questions, it’s very hard not to “insult” them. Basically asking “How could that even happen?” (speaking of the miracles) insults them.

You guys are using the word “theists” inappropriately. “Religious” implies “involved with religion”.

OK, what is your definition of “theism” @canidmajor?

A theist is simply someone who believes in a deity; they are not necessarily a follower of any religion.

@MrGrimm888 When I talk about God and you talk about mayonnaise it’s pretty much a jerk move.

And the other day you reminded me many of the asylum seekers are religious and you go to bat for them all the time….smh, doesn’t make any sense.

All Christians are theists, but not all theists are Christian. But they all believe in magic, and therefore are easily insulted by accident.

@MrGrimm888 isn’t the one who brought Mayo up in a religious context in the first place. @janbb did. @Adagio was a bit confused too. And so am I. Why don’t the Jews eat mayo on their sandwiches?

@Dutchess_III All rude imo.

Magic huh. Guess we aren’t friends anymore-seriously. Peace.

No, they don’t all believe in “magic”, @Dutchess_III. If you’re a non-theist, you believe something came from nothing, which might as well be magic. So who believes in magic, then? :P

Jews and Mayo and Mustard -

There’s a lot of history that goes into this. And a little bit of science as well.

Jews ate corned beef and pastrami and that sort of stuff when they lived in Eastern Europe, going back a couple hundred years. When they could afford it. They need a spice to make it more tasty, and also to give it some wetness to make it easier to swallow. Hence, mustard, and particularly brown mustard, and sometimes brown mustard with seeds.

Remember that (1) mayo spoils without refrigeration and (2) mayo is only a little over a hundred years old – far younger than mustard.

Also, white bread (without seeds) was perceived as an upper class food, because in Europe, bread – like, rye, pumpernickel, etc.) almost always had seeds. And Jews didn’t live in the socioeconomic strata that let them eat the high priced white bread.

Tradition dies hard. Jews don’t put mayo on sandwiches because their mothers and grandmothers and great grandmothers didn’t.

@MrGrimm888 What religious people are you talking about?

No. I believe there is an answer to it all, @Demosthenes. We just haven’t found it yet.

@KNOWITALL . I am sorry I offended you. I don’t recall the God/mayo incident. But. I wouldn’t be surprised if I said something insensitive, or insulting.

I brought up the immigrants being religious, to attempt to help you humanize them. And understand their potential value in a democracy, in regards to helping you further your agenda.

Religious or not, these immigrants need our help. And it’s fully within our powers to absorb them into our society.

If someone is drowning, I will try to help them. We can debate idiology when they’re safe, and we have the luxury of conversation.

Christians in particular, are constantly trying to bend the country to their beliefs. They are currently essentially taking by force, that which they have no rights to. They are overall, a minority, and the shit they are pushing through, or attempting to, is wrong, and severely damaging to the country, and the world. I know that the next target is Roe v Wade. I know that the GOP stole the previous SCOTUS seat, and that they will now completely destroy any semblance of balance in our nation’s highest court. From there, who knows what they will try to do to this country.
I, and many others, don’t take kindly to this.

There is supposed to be a separation of church and state. Now, we could be looking at a 6 or 7 majority Christian judges. That’s total bullshit. It spits in the face of almost every fundamental that this country was intended to be, by our founding fathers (who knew fully well, the evils of religion.)

I rarely intend to insult a jelly, but the direction that the GOP is dragging this country in, brings great passion to my rhetoric, and if you combine that with the fact that I’m already an asshole, we’re going to have some hurt feelings…

@MrG Seems like you blame us, the collective non liberal public, for all of the Trump Experience thus far?
I get the Jewish mayo thing now, too. So peace, do you.

I guess I do. I don’t understand why you can’t worship whatever you want, behind closed doors, and stay out of how our government operates. Yes. You see, the GOP tolerates Trump, so they can further their agenda. Which has lots of Christian values…

What would you think, if the government was being quickly pulled in a direction that pushed an extreme Muslim agenda?

What percentage of the statues in the national statuary hall in the capitol building are Christian preachers and evangelists? Didn’t the Supreme Court itself used to have Communion/worship services before it moved out of the Capitol in the 1940s? How do you account for all the Christian and Civil Religion inscriptions all over those buildings in Washington?

@Yellowdog I think the point is the founding Christians, Protestants, were fleeing religious oppression and created a country that was supposed to let each individual practice their religion freely. Because of the Spanish Armada, Trade, and some other details in history, the English settled in our country, and some Dutch, and a few others, and was one of the primary influences in our creation. If not for that, we would have been more dominantly settled by the Spanish Catholics, and the US would have likely been more like Latin America—speaking Spanish and controlled by the church.

The Protestants created something fairly unique and special when they created America, and now, they are trying to turn it into a country governed by religion in the name of God so to speak. They are destroying the very thing they created in a way. If we allow religion to dictate government policy, then if another religion gains power you have set precedent to let them do the same. We can and should consider ethical questions, which overlaps with religion very often, but not use our biggest reference as the Bible I would argue, although we can allow religious scholars at the table, but mostly we should rely on our experience, our scientific knowledge, our conscience, the golden rule, affects on society, and even our simple feelings of right and wrong.

I give credit to the Christian founders, but they do not represent what the religion is or should be in the country, they represent religious and individual freedom. I’m very grateful to have been born in this country, which includes acknowledging a Christian influence.

One thing to remember though, is the people in the beginnings of our country sometimes did not apply their great ideas and ideals to everyone, and that is a black mark. Slavery, burning witches at the stake, there are other examples. One man I met said to me, “it’s like there was divine intervention in the wording of our Constitution and then the people still screwed up carrying it out sometimes.”

It’s very tricky really, I understand that. If the law prevents me from practicing my religion then it’s not in the spirit of America, but if my religion harms others then the law trumps religion in my opinion. I get that many Christians feel abortion is harming another.

@MrGrimm888 You didn’t really say anything about mayo / God. Someone else did.

@JLeslie . That’s correct.

@Yellowdog . I account for such religious statues, inscriptions etc, as people breaking the law. ALL religious material should be treated as what it is, vandalism, and graffiti. Why there are ANY ties between church and state ANYWHERE, is beyond me.

I know we said something about mayo, but what the heck does God have to do with it? I’m missing something.

Well, for one thing, etched in stone are the words of our founders. Some may say they were this or that, but they put the Bible above all else, it was the main book in the public schools from the Mayflower until the 1950s. And they WROTE the laws you say they broke.

The edifices, the statues in Washington have more Christian inscriptions than any church or cathedral, etched in stone. Not vandalism.

@JLeslie I know we said something about mayo, but what the heck does God have to do with it? I’m missing something.

You are missing the egg, even god needed an egg for jesus but mayonnaise doesn’t need one.

Mayonnaise? Egg? I am so confused.

Me too, I’m very confused. Can someone in straight forward words explain to me why God was brought into the mayo comment?

As @elbanditoroso explained, Jews culturally and by tradition have had an aversion to putting mayo on sandwiches. I made a humorous reference prior to that to mayonnaise on a question or two and someone picked up on it and questioned it. Nothing to do with God or mocking anyone’s religion at all. Nothing to see here, move along…...

But why is what we are asking…..

Read his explanation.

Got it. ”Jews don’t put mayo on sandwiches because their mothers and grandmothers and great grandmothers didn’t.”

Oh, why? Right, because that’s just how it was for generations. I agree with that.

I still don’t know where God came in, and I’m not going to go back through the thread so I guess I’ll just forget it since no one is answering why God was brought up regarding a deli meat sandwich. Did someone think it’s a kosher thing or something? It’s not. Never mind.

@Yellowdog . Perceive it as you wish. The actual founding fathers made it crystal clear, that there is to be a separation between church and state. Doesn’t sound like the work of people who valued the bible above all else…

I suggest, then, that you study their writings. The Wall of Separation between Church and State was written to ensure that government could not prohibit or interfere with worship, and plainly and directly states it. Nor could the government establish any religion as a State religion,

I suggest you look at what the founding fathers really thought about organized religion.

Their writings, clearly show that religion is essentially viewed as a negative aspect of humanity.

They did not value the Bible above all else. The founding father’s had experienced the horrors of a nation run by the Catholic church, where the kings and queens were next to God. When they spoke they said, ”We decree…” ‘we’ being them AND God. They could do no wrong. God was on their side no matter what. They spoke for God, or God spoke through them. If the peasants were starving, it was God’s will. If the king, or one of the princes wanted to kidnap a comely young maiden for wanton sex, it was God’s will. They could do no wrong.
Oh, the horrors.

Sounds like what Trump wants…