If all the white American supremacists discovered they have black or brown ancestry would they have a change of heart?

I doubt it. Most likely they would just dismiss the biological realities and just go with outward appearance and other superficial things. A few of them might be shaken. There is so much talk that everyone comes from Africa that they could easily dismiss it that way. They are white Christians now, and for as many generations that they personally are in touch with, so they are better. They would just twist it how they see fit.

I saw a show once where this Italian-American guy becomes a white supremacist and I initially thought how did he ever get accepted? But, they did accept him.

Possibly, but maybe (and quite likely) none would admit to it.

Mass suicide most likely outcome.

I used to be racist against the French until I found out that I was French and very little British. Now I’m proud to be French. So I guess rasicm can be redirected to make ones own race seem better. Racism can be very superficial and insane to believe in. I still can only speak very little French , but I am getting to it eventually.

I don’t know. I doubt it. But why don’t we ask that Seawolf character here. He seems pretty racist, going by one of his recent comments about folks from south of the US border.

It’s all based on appearance for bigots. They bet the opinions they hold most dear upon only the most superficial of things. I’ve had friends attacked and had racial slurs yelled at them that left them scratching their heads. They weren’t Hispanic. One friend was a student from Germany. One was part Filipino and like third generation US citizen on her mother’s side and further back on her dad’s. Another was Samoan. So, no, I don’t believe genetic testing is really going to change their minds. For them, it will always be (brown skin)=BAD.

Surely the results must be doctored with (in case they point to anything else than pure whiteness)...., would be the expected replies from said group.

“We are Qrazy!”

What’s wrong with this picture? Everyone here is speaking for people they don’t know anything about. And perhaps the reason said people aren’t speaking for themselves, is, they perhaps don’t exist except in the mind of liberals. Its a straw-man argument.

Where are these “white people” who don’t like ‘brown people’ or deny that they have ‘brown people’ in their ancestry?

The whitest people in the world—Icelanders, Canadians, Scandinavians—very humane, tolerant, non-racist people. Very liberal, too.

Aren’t ALL of the posters in this thead themselves VERY white?

I doubt it. One of the more racist US Senators had a black daughter that he kept hidden out of public view. She was only allowed to claim her parentage after he had died.

He was also a democrat Well, okay he switched sides in 1964.

@Yellowdog My grandmother was one of those people. Her mother was ½ Cherokee and her hair was dark brown. Whenever she went outside to work in the yard, she’d cover herself up real good, with a big wide brimmed hat, long sleeved shirt, and gloves. Said she did so because she was allergic to the sun. Ha! She did so because she’d turn brown like an indian and she was ashamed of it.

@Yellowdog Typically the whitest places often are the least racist, so I’m not sure your argument holds.

We aren’t talking about Trump voters or republicans here. We are talking about NeoNazi type people.

@JLeslie Oh, I thought we were talking about Trump supporters as well. and I think your statement of ‘the whitest places often are the least racist’ is sort of hilarious and reminds me of the ‘Get Out’ movie.

@ScienceChick Come to America. The most racist states are the ones where the density of blacks is the highest. Not that there aren’t racists in all states, but it is the people who live around large numbers of one group who tend to hold the most stereotypes and prejudices. Plus, I want to add that I think the percentage of racists in America is very low.

Most people are all fine with other races and ethnicities until a huge group of them start showing a strong presence. One black family on the block—no problem. 15 more black families move in filling half the block—maybe some of the white people start to form some stereotypes or worry about the neighborhood. It happens in black communities too. A Hispanic moves in—no problem. Half the block is Hispanic and then it feels like they are encroaching.

I am not talking about areas where the diversity is huge. Meaning many different races and ethnicities living together. I’m talking about places that have two huge groups as a significant part of the population.

Not all Trump voters are racist, and definitely not all are white supremicists. WTH? There are people who voted for Obama and who voted for Trump.

What you are describing in your example is latent racism. And it’s still racism. There is also aversive racism. Active or overt racism isn’t the only sort. And America doesn’t have a monopoly on it, but they do seem the best and trying to ignore it or act like it is somehow normal and decent behaviour in society. Here in Europe, we know hate. You can taste it on some streets in the air. But we don’t pretend it doesn’t exist. That’s how wars start and Jews end up in gas chambers. Not a good look.

^^I’m agreeing about the different types of racism.

Are you saying the whitest countries in Europe are the most racist? I really haven’t found that to be the case.

We kind of agreed that for the racists they will ignore the tests and just look at the superficial.

Saying all Trump voters are racist is over generalizing, and painting with such a broad brush that I hope you don’t accuse others of painting with broad brushes?

I never said if someone was a Trump supporter they are racist. I simply said racist Trump supporters. You read that into it. And I’ll listen to my brown skinned or Muslim friends over here about their experiences with racism. I’m guessing you are neither.

@JLeslie You basically repeated what I said and then said that you weren’t sure that argument holds. I already pointed out that the whitest parts of the world were the least racist, And also, that many here on Fluther were liberals and very white.

It seems ironic that white people, who are typically liberal, would be bashing white people as being ‘white supremacists.’ but it happens all the time on these boards.

It also seems ironic that if someone is against huge influxes of illegal immigrants infiltrating the country, they are branded a ‘racist’ on Fluther. Although even that’s less perplexing than white liberals calling all white people in general as ‘white supremacists’.

You are certainly right also in that racism shows up among one race or class when another begins showing up in large numbers.

Because you know Memphis, I think it is fair to say that some white neighborhoods have become nearly 100% black in Memphis and really have not had any decline, nor a significant rise in crime. But if there IS a rise in crime or a decline in those things which define neighborhood covenants, neighborhoods go down really fast.

My neighborhood is over eighty percent African American and has been for about thirty years. Although initially there was a rise in crime, there is much less crime or undesirable elements than we had 15–20 years ago. Crime still happens, but its not nearly as bad as it was in the early 2000s.

@ScienceChick My husband is Mexican and we are both Jewish.

Ok, I wasn’t sure why you brought Trump into it, but I do understand your clarification that you mean trump supporters who are racist rather than meaning all Trump supporters are racist. I’m not reading into it, it’s a simple miscommunication. The question was not about Trump, so I just misinterpreted your statement.

@JLeslie I mentioned that it really doesn’t matter where anyone is actually from, just if they look like they’re from a target group. Even people from the Sikh religion are being attacked because people think they are Muslim or simply can’t work it out. And I’m very glad you’ve never experienced any racist remarks in your mostly white areas you’ve travelled, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Saying, ‘Well it never happened to me, so it can’t be a problem’ is sort of the epitome of not recognising your privilege.

It seems to me that races and people of different ethnic origins have coexisted in the States for many decades. I honestly don’t know where you are getting the idea that there is some systematic racism across America. I am in my fifties. My elementary school principal and several of my teachers were black. I went to a wealthy kindergarten in 1970 and my teacher was Korean / Spanish. The TBN channel, the FOX channel, the Bill Gaither choir, all have a multiplicity of races. These are your conservatives.

I was the first generation of kids to experience Sesame Street, and looking back, there were NO white people on the show except Bob (McGrath) and the storekeeper Mr. Hooper—who was Jewish. This is the world we all have lived in since the 1970s

Conservative blacks and Hispanics exist, Conservative blacks are frequently lambasted by liberal groups from participation on panels that work with conservative politicians—then the same liberals lambast the politicians for NOT having African American faces in their panels and committees.

It seems the further North you go, the whiter it gets, the more liberal it gets, and more deliberate efforts are made at inclusiveness,

I do not deny that the Internet has made White Supremacist groups and White Nationalist groups visible, but I have never met one—the closest I’ve ever come to what you might miscategorize would be the Sons of the Confederacy whom I interacted with occasionally when I worked at the Mississippi Valley Valley Collection (Rare books and archives) when I was in college. A lot of supporters and apologists for, say, Nathan Bedford Forrest. But these people aren’t the Klan or Stormfront, who are extremely rare in the actual world.

But again, seriously, in all my fiftysomething years, people have been divided on political lines but not race. There are Indian and Mexican and various Asian restaurants in my neighborhood, and most of my neighbors are African American. And it seems to me that the further North you go, the more whites dominate, but they are liberals.

I do not think the systemic racism you all are touting exists, Most of the wealth in this country is focused on the Silicon Valley / California / Upper Pacific Northwest or the Washington/New York / New England coast. Not exactly bastions of conservatism and certainly not racism. But the bastions of old and new money nonetheless.

Some of you will vehemently argue that I am ‘blind’ to the racism. But blind or not, if you take a look around you, you will see that its not there.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/07/racist-history-portland/492035/

@JLeslie What do you think about @Yellowdog ‘s suggestion that there is no racism or bigotry in America? Do you fear putting a Hanukkah decorations on your door because you’ve seen them vandalised in the past? Or is the news of those things happening this ‘Fake News’. Yellowdog speaks of so often, made up by the ‘liberal media’?

Hannukah decorations (thanks for spelling it right) WILL get vandalized in my neighborhood.

But the vandals (and worse) are NOT white supremacists. They are usually crazies who are anti-Israel / Pro Palestinian, or those who have beliefs filtered through many channels from Louis Farrakhan. Some are anti-Semitic but others just don’t like anything strange to them.

Agreed I want to hear @JLeslie‘s take on this, We do not know each other, but she has lived pretty much in the same place as where I am.

Most antisemitism I am aware of are pro-Farrakhan or anti-Israel

America is a very large country. Each region is different, and within regions there are pockets. New York State is mostly red if you just look at a geographical map, but then the Democrats are in huge numbers in the big cities.

I’m not one to advertise my Judaism on my house or my body. In general, I feel safe being Jewish in my country (I am extremely grateful for that, and I do not take it for granted) but the reality is Jews have a disproportionate amount of violence and hate against them, but the number is still very low. It doesn’t matter if I live in a very Jewish city (Boca Raton was 25% Jewish when I lived there, 1 in 3 homes had at least one Jewish person in it) or when I live in places with very few Jews, I feel pretty much the same about my safety as a minority.

Most very religious (Evangelical) Christians in America support Israel almost blindly, and that seems to be intertwined with being accepting of the Jewish people, so in some ways I think it adds to our safety right now.

The KKK and similar groups have always been around, and they are terrifying to me. The confederate flag makes me very uneasy, and I’ve lived in places where they that flag is flown on houses. I do NOT equate white people today who are a worked up about immigration with White Supremacists nor do I instantly assume they are racist. I do think they are missing it in the empathy department, fail the golden rule test, and their own insecurity is a big problem.

The whitest (and least ethnic) places I have lived were attending school at Michigan State University, and where I live now. In Tennessee my suburb was VERY “white” but the immediate areas nearby have a tremendously high percentage of black people, and so I don’t count it as very white. Iowa is very white. The state that voted for Obama right off the bat in the primaries. Remember that?

To counter what I said about very white places having less bigotry, when I attended school there was an incidence of swastikas being drawn on dorm doors, which I found scary. I did come across some other antisemitic things, but it was more out of stupidity, I never felt threatened or endangered by the stupid stereotypes.

There are hateful people everywhere.

Black people who think their experience is worse than other groups I find annoying. I ran across this more in the South than anywhere, and yes the South does have statistically much bigger numbers of black people than the north. The church is very influential in the black communities too. And. like I said, the more diversity in a city (people from many ethnicities and races) the less bigotry in my opinion. Having 50% white and 50% black is not diverse by my personal definition. Maybe because I grew up in places that had the whole world was living there and multiple languages around me all of the time. Supposedly, just 10 years ago, blacks still rate fairly high on the antisemitic scale, still seeing Jews in a negative light. Meaning not most blacks are antisemitic, but a fairly large percentage do hold a negative view.

I think the biggest divider in America is socio-economic class, but in America it is just as taboo to talk about social class as it is to talk in terms of race. It’s from our founding I think, we got rid of royalty, and anyone and everyone is supposed to be able to climb the class structure. Created equal.

And then there was the whole slavery thing….....

Still not sure where this stuff comes from if bigotry and racism doesn’t exist in the US. http://www.khq.com/story/38816501/sandpoint-residents-receive-phone-messages-from-neo-nazi

^^Who says it doesn’t exist? No one said that. We are saying what’s portrayed in the news is the worst of it, but it doesn’t mean it represents our majority.

”And then there was the whole slavery thing…”

And then there was the whole Hitler thing.

I’m not denying the Hitler thing. One of my first comments here was that the reason we don’t have wars every 10 kilometres here is because we don’t deny that the hate exists. In your very long response and trying to ‘splain history to me, you don’t mention slavery, so I thought I would. Both you and Yellowdog, (but mostly Yellowdog, if you read his comment) seem to want to deny latent racism and even racism and bigotry exist in the US. But that’s ok. You are only two people in the USA, and like you said, it’s a big place. Neo Nazis running for public office and gaining votes don’t happen because everything is hunky-dory. It happens and it should be acknowledged.

I never tried to explain history.

I never denied American history.

I never said there was no racism. I said where I’ve seen it the most, and that there are plenty of exceptions to the rule. I’ve had people tell me to stop speaking Spanish to my MIL to my face, I’ve had people use the term “Jew it down” when they didn’t know I was Jewish. Just a month ago a person applying for a job at our company told my husband during the interview his last boss “was cheap, he was a Jewish guy.” I had Neighbors in TN who called Memphis Memfrika. I certainly don’t deny there is some bigotry in my country. I just am saying I don’t feel all of these people are White Supremicists, which is what the Q is about. Maybe we define White Supremicist differently. To me, that is an organized group, like the KKK. Maybe to you it is anyone who says something racist.

@ScienceChick There certainly are groups like Stormfront and the KKK. I’ve never met any of them personally and most people never do.

A lot of people on the Left say these are right-wing groups, but actually they are kind of an enigma. It wasn’t the right who said George W. Bush coordinated the 2011 World Trade Center attacks, but it is conspiracy theory groups that tend to hold the Jew as the axis and coordinator of evil in the world. These groups deny the holocaust, oppose Israel, and are against liberal American Jews as well. Covertly, Trump supporters are pro-Israel and respect many Jewish teachers and attorneys associated with TBN and the Trump administration.

I wouldn’t take the conspiracy theorists, the Sovereign citizens, the groups that run the gamet from Farrakahn / Moorish Science to Holocaust Deniers to white supremacists, and say there is systematic racism in America. Nor would I take the idea that Black Lives Matter and their cause is validation as such. There is too much evidence against their version of what happened in Ferguson,

America got in the habit of pointing out racism during Hurricane Katrina when some politicians said Bush was responsible for the bursting of levies in New Orleans. Bush and his supporters were responsible for the World Trade Center attacks, the War in Iraq, the breaking of levies in New Orleans, etc etc. and Obama was supposed to be our savior. Everyone who didn’t vote for Obama was a racist.—and everyone who opposed Obama’s politics in later years was a racist, In turn, everyone who voted for Trump was a racist and a fascist—funny how nobody called Trump a racist or fascist before he ran against Hillary. And how African American unemployment is so low right now, and Chicago, run by Obama political aficionados is a literal war zone.

Stormfront and Neo-Nazi groups exist, but they are conspiracy theory groups, belonging to the same ilk as soveriegn citizens and survivalist enclaves.

The second answer mentions racism as well as other answers. I wasn’t bringing up anything new. Thank you for sharing some of your personal experiences and I’m sorry it happens. I’m not calling everyone a white supremisist who says racist of bigoted things. Of course not. But you kept denying it happened to you and your husband from Mexico and now we hear that it has. Rings more true to my own personal experiences and those shared by others I know.

@Yellowdog We have been pointing out racism since way before Katrina. It certainly does exist, but I do think the argument is overused and thus diminishes when racism is truly an issue. The ramifications of racism became more stark to me living in the Memphis area; the social ramifications. The South kind of created it’s own problems. Before I moved to Memphis I would have likely voted against affirmative action if it came up for a vote, but living there I became more conflicted, seeing that maybe it is still probably necessary. The public school situation in Shelby, and that out in the burbs I almost never saw black people socializing with white people in my generation, I did see it a little in the younger generation.

I do believe most people are not racist, but I do think we hold judgments about social and cultural norms. I want people to assimilate too, but if the system makes it impossible, or even encourages the problem, then we need to own up to it. Lots of people in the burbs resented paying taxes for “those” kids to go to school. I see a really big problem with that. Where you live, maybe that isn’t apparent, because in your immediate area probably the whites and blacks living there are all in the same boat. I don’t remember what part of town you live in, but I’m sure you’re aware of what was being said when Memphis gave up their school charter several years back.

It’s all very complicated.

@ScienceChick Ok, well originally my mind was on the NeoNazi types, but the run of the mill person who says something racist. I guess since I’m a minority sometimes one of their targets, i I refocus on the people who I think want to kill me.

My guess is you are white and Christian, living in a predominantly white and Christian place. Are you? It might be why you just group everyone together like a little bad is the same as very big bad on the topic. Don’t get me wrong, even racist comments now and then can feed into the overall problem, I don’t discount that, but someone who gets annoyed that I’m speaking Spanish to my MIL is not the same as someone burning a cross on my lawn or someone sending a bomb to my synagogue.

Anyway, in my answer above to you I addressed the history and the racism that certainly does still exist in America, it’s just that if you were here you would see it’s mostly not like that. People are kind and helpful to each other and we have been diverse since the beginnings of our country. That’s what we are, just some people here seem to have forgotten for some reason.

Nope. I am a minority, but I’m white, so, like you, unless someone is suddenly privy to my personal life, they don’t get triggered to be a bigot. But I’ve been called names and spat on and had to listen to really derogatory slurs and jokes by people who aren’t aware. Most people are decent and aren’t bothered, but they aren’t the ones I get scars from when a bottle is thrown at my head by a sad rejected man when he finds out I’m meeting my girlfriend and that is the actual reason his advances are not welcome.

Couldn’t fix typos. Sorry all.

So, your minority status is being a lesbian?

*

Is that like a gold star? Meaning I’m correct. Lol.

I definitely feel you qualify. In fact, I think I mentioned above my annoyance with parts of the American southern black community who diminish other minority experiences. I think the Jews overall have shown empathy and support for the gay community. I feel the LGBT community stands against antisemitic behavior in unity and feels a bond with other minorities.

I can’t tell you how many black people I know from the Memphis area who were pissed that people called the gay marriage fight a civil rights issue. They felt civil rights was something the owner. My people were sent to ovens, and our places of worship are at risk just like black churches, and yet theses particular African Americans completely dismiss it, and they are sure they suffer worse and have more hate against them than any other group. It’s annoying. They were against gay narriage, they talked about how gays in the military can work because gay men can’t cobtrol themselves and would be making moves on soldier bunk mates. This is the type of thing that people mean when they say reverse racism or just annoyed with the victim mentality and no empathy for other groups.

Religion is big part of their lack of empathy for the gay community. Lots of peer pressure and homophobia in the black community too.

I don’t mean all black peoples here, not at all, but the number is big enough that it’s noticeable. Jews cane out in force during Civil Rights in the 60’s for blacks. Yet, to many black people we are still the landlords, the bankers, the doctors, and that’s not in a good way. That all translates to slum lords, mortgage holders, and remember the Tuskegee experiment.

Oh, I am well aware there is a hierarchy and I purposely avoid any ‘woe is me’ competitions because it’s totally pointless. Everybody has their story. I totally try to avoid saying ‘they’ and ‘we’ and ‘those people’ or.. one of my favourites I hear at work is , ‘I’m not racist, but…..’ I tune out or say… ‘Let me stop you there..’ Basically, when you say ‘They’ I don’t know who you’re talking about. You are talking about a group of people you have an image of in your mind. I don’t think I have the same image of who ‘They’ are.

^^In your writings I feel like you think Americans are “they” or that I am. You may not say the word, but it’s implied.

People who say “Trump voter” in a negative tone are saying they.

Ummm… can you give me an example? You do seem to read things into what I write that aren’t there.

^^First, I want to clarify I am not a Trump voter. I just realized it might have sounded that way in my last post.

It was another Q that I think it was you who accused me of being a fat American, or something along those lines. Possibly, I’ve confused you with someone else, I don’t really commit too much of stuff like that to memory in fluther.

You wrote above Here in Europe, we know hate. You can taste it on some streets in the air. But we don’t pretend it doesn’t exist. That’s how wars start and Jews end up in gas chambers. Not a good look.

Are you saying Americans do pretend the atrocities that have happened here didn’t exist? That no one here is calling out some of the hateful things that have recently? We have had lots of protesting about it, marches, newspaper articles, TV spots, and more. “The Americans” feels like them, although in this case it isn’t so much us against them, but still grouping people and generalizing. It does sound a little like you think you’re better than us.

The majority of the jellies here are liberals, or at least moderate.

There are still NeoNazis in Germany, just like we have them here in the US. Germany in general bends over backwards for Jewish people because of the history, but many many countries in Europe seem to be more and more anti-Israel, and in turn some of those people generalize the sentiment to the Jewish people. The French seem to have some antisemitic leanings. If I met a German or Frenchman I wouldn’t for one second assume they were antisemitic though. Here in America I assume everyone isn’t prejudiced or racist unless I witness otherwise.

I’m saying some Americans do pretend things haven’t happened or that there aren’t problems because they, themselves, live lives where they do not see it. They are privileged to not have to deal with it. I’m sure the appeal of racist bigots like Alex Jones, Limbaugh and Breitbart is just a coincidence and everyone listens and watches it ironically and the people voting for the openly neo nazi candidates in the GOP races in Illinois, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Virginia are being supported by people, good people on both sides. It isn’t the racists and bigots that mess up your democracy, because they are well and truly outnumbered, You are, of course right about that and I never said differently. What messes up a democracy, though, is apathy and folks who do nothing. I guess having been brought up in a war zone and my parents before me with the OG Nazis dropping bombs on us, I’m a wee… tad bit more sensitive to it all.

^^That’s what a lot of people mean when they say something about a group. Just like you don’t mean all Americans, you meant the ones who do want to change history or ignore history. People know what they mean in their heads, but then the same person might be easily offended when they feel they fit the generalization.

Someone can say the Mexican drug dealers coming over the border, and only mean the ones who are drug dealers, not all Mexicans. Hillary can talk about the deplorables, and only mean the Trump supporters who are deplorable, not all people planning to vote for Trump.

Trump does plenty of things that I find nerve racking, but I hold hope that if he actually turned into a Hitler or Castro that at least half the people who voted for him would say, “wait a minute,” and flip on him. Like you say, we have to hope they wouldn’t just stand by and watch things happen. When children were being taken from their parents at the border, some in his own party did flip on him. Some of that is just politics, but at least some of them really did vehemently disapprove of the president’s actions.

It’s very easy to accuse Americans of racism who are concerned about immigration, because right now the countries coming into America mostly have people with darker skin, and the immigrants speak another language. Americans have proven in history that they also will be bigots and hateful against people with very white skin as they cross our borders. “We” did it to the Polish, the Irish, the Jews, and many in the country didn’t want a Catholic as president in the time of Kennedy, but at the same time they were accepted also.

America has a very long history of immigration and assimilation, many European countries don’t, except for during times of war and borders changing. More recently there is more movement and immigration into Western and Northern Europe. For instance in America our white population (taking out Hispanics) is just over 60%. I don’t remember if Middle Eastern decent is in that white number, it might very well be, so if you take them out the white number is even lower. England the white population is almost 90%. Germany, the Nordic countries, it’s only recently, maybe the last 20 years, that immigration has increased significantly. Eastern block countries like Romani are 90% Romanian.

The New World, The Americas, were built on immigration, and the majority of us know it.

I don’t know which country you are in, but all I can say about mine is I do feel our system of government will stay in place, and by that I mean every four years we vote for a new president, and I think we will have the check of Congress for some balance. Yet, always in the back of my mind I believe anything can happen anywhere if the Nazis were able to happen in Germany.

Umm… I think you’ll find that European countries have a much LONGER history of immigration and assimilation and they have a shocking history of it as well, but it’s getting better. As I repeatedly say, we do have more hate per kilometre here. Very recently, what Britain did to the boat loads of Jews looking for asylum during German occupation of Europe was appalling. Look, I’m not debating this anymore. You aren’t even listening to half of what I’m writing and you’re talking right around me. I’m not accusing Americans of racism. I’m accusing racists of racism and warning against the perils of apathy. We agree so stop trying to hard. I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove. Leave it now. I won’t be much here in the following weeks as summer holidays are over and I’m preparing for school start.

I understand what you are saying. I’m not arguing, I’m just explaining America.

Britain’s acts during the war are also mixed good and bad. When President Roosevelt wouldn’t take in a ship full of Jews, he turned the ship away from our shores, it was England that took that boat in. Many Christian families in England took in Jewish children to hide them. I personally know someone raised in France in a Christian family who was a Jewish orphan, literally he was one of the boys in the woods for a while, who by the grace of God eventually got out of that situation, and the French are definitely stereotyped as antisemitic in my country, especially by us Jews, but obviously we don’t believe all French people are antisemitic.

I’m agreeing with you basically, it’s very complex, and bad things can happen anywhere, no country is immune. I think that’s your point.

Edit: I’m nkt sure why you think Europe is more diverse than America, or even the Americas? I googled a map of diversity around the world. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/16/a-revealing-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-ethnically-diverse-countries/?utm_term=.15fa18fa2946

European countries certainly are catching up though. In the last 20 years immigration into Europe and between European countries has greatly increased.

I think the definition of diversity has changed. Historically speaking the bar has been raised quite a bit. When you think that the Irish were enslaved and sent to the Americas, and all the European religious wars, you get a perspective that, yeah.. we do now live together much better.. And yes… I think you see my point now, and what we are agreeing on. I’ll take my books over people any day. People are hard. Science is easy. That’s my mantra. ;)

I’m going to do a Q asking how people define diversity. It will be interesting to see if we all mean different things when we say it.