Females against females?

Well you know, they do have “blood coming out of their wherever.” (Trump)
Maybe it has been their experience that women bosses, for whatever reason, don’t work out for them. I have found both good and bad in both sexes as a boss. To me, it’s not a gender thing, it’s a personality thing.

@chyna Trump needs to sensor his comments. I’ve reported to almost as many females as males. Some have been better than others, no matter what their sex was.

The personality thing is understandable. What boggles my mind are the sweeping statements against someone of the same sex.

This, is as old as human history. Women, hate women. It’s really that simple….

I worked in veterinary medicine, for almost 10 years. The staff was 98% female. They were smart, and great people. But they were unable to coexist, with each other well. They all slandered each other behind each other’s backs, and seemed to want each other fired. About 80 females came, and went, in my time there. It was VERY constant.

@MrGrimm888 wrote: This is as old as human history. Women, hate women. It’s really that simple…

But if you dig down even further, it is anthropologically motivated. Women fought women (in tribal days) to be the wife of the tribal leader and therefore have power.

We may not have the whole tribal structure any more, but woman-against-woman competition is so deeply ingrained that it is still a powerful motivator.

^However you want to phrase it. They hate each other.

Women don’t hate women. But women have been taught throughout history that women competing with women is pleasing to men, and for so very long, pleasing men was a survival tactic for women.

^Wow. That’s being unaccountable.

Women are much more dramatic and snippy with each other, even working against other females to marginalize them. Maybe the competition thing.

Men are more even-tempered, in general, in my experience.

Neither personality trait has anything to do with intelligence levels, or professionalism, which depends on the person. Just my opinion from work experiences in my life.

^Correct. The females I worked with, were VERY smart, and capable. But….. They all hated each other. And there was a big fake love of each other. The second one would walk away, the other girls would talk shit about her. Only to embrace one another, when they first meet. More than one girl called it a very “catty” environment. I learned that this was another way of saying that “females hate each other.”..

@MrGrimm888 Maybe that’s because we’ve been raised to see men as bosses/leaders and women as subordinates, rather than ‘hate’ itself. We can fuss one day and be fine the next, just that quick..lol

Women like me, who mainly had male friends growing up, seem to be a little less into that lady drama.

Perhaps its more of there personality rather than their sex that people compete and slander and talk.Males do this too so its not just females.
For centuries women were subjugated by males and society and now in the present the women are understanding the dynamics used against them.
A lot of males use competition between women in getting them jealous of each other rather than females realizing that its that type of male that should be shunned and realized that those men have a character flaw and thus reject their advances.
Its a game males play in a desperate attempt to keep them in line and thus these men hope that these women value them more as a partner.
Presently the smart females that understand that game know enough not to be played and let the other female have that type of man with no competition nor resistance .
Females must stick together and stop competing for men that clearly are immature and cruel in playing them.
I have worked under excellent female CEO’s and respect and admire there character.
It is a hard job for a female to break the glass ceiling and make it easier for other females to get ahead as well. There are presently female Entrepreneurs who have aligned themselves to further the goals of previously subjugated women to free them There are presently Banks run only by women that give out loans to females to further there goals to a better education and one day have their own Business. That is the ideal of which women groups should encourage others. They recognize men yet they do not cause dissension with their male counterparts, rather they align with mature males in assisting a better environment and a better world for all of us to exist.

Oh, please, look at the tropes. Girl fights turn men on. Women should be “one of the boys”. Women should compete for the affections of men. Men’s mud wrestling never took off because men want to see women be slippery. <eyeroll> It’s getting better in recent years, but women are still lauded for competing for the attention of men.
I recognize, @MrGrimm888, that your perception of women is very skewed, but even you must see that this goes on.
Or maybe not. And that is a sad thing.

I worked for and with women for years. I found female managers much easier to deal with because they rated me on my job performance. Women that worked for me were competent and pleased to be rated on their job performance.

^I will not disagree with your observations. Feel free to disagree with mine.

I find this a complete crock of BS though. If you feel it makes females better, by denying their behavior, and blaming any negative aspects solely on men, I feel you have significantly weakened your position.

My opinions are based on careful, and long term observation. I stand by them %100.

Men are competitive with each other, but they don’t seem to cut each other down in the passive aggressive way that women do. Not sure why. Maybe that’s why we need all those messages of “sisterhood” out there :)

Agree with above comments about women. They do seem to more suspicious of one another’s intentions and display passive aggressive tendencies towards one another more than guys.

On the other hand, I have spent most of my adult life working with guys who are wielding one sort of weapon or another. When they get aggressive, it is not passive.

Which one is worse sort of depends on the context.

Answer to the question- it would only be sexism if the oppressor (in this context, in our time, white male) says it about the oppressed ( in this context, in our time, woman). There is no such thing as “reverse” sexism, or any of the other current political “isms”.

It’s been my experience that women are harder to work with. They’re harder to deal with in life, period.

I have worked for and with assholes, and wonderful people. I don’t think gender enters into it.

I think there are plenty of people who buy into old stereotypes of women being “witches” and “shrews” and other bad characterizations.

I think what makes people (both men and women) awful is narcissm, classism, feelings of entitlement, and insecurities that drive some people to be competitive when it is not necessary.

There’s plenty of assholes out there, but not all of them are women. I’m pretty sure the breakdowns of assholism are pretty equal.

I don’t see where anyone accused any women of being assholes. Some, like myself, have opined that they have trouble getting along with other women.

Some people (men and women) have trouble getting along with other people.

Gender stereotyping women as people who don’t get along is rather ridiculous and offensive.

You, or other people may have worked with females that you didn’t get along with, and probably some men too.

Can you imagine substituting “blacks” or “Jews” or “Muslims” as people who can’t get along? That sounds pretty awful, and like a bad stereotype, but instead of being sexist, it’s racist. Either way, it stinks.

I disagree. I think it’s a trait of the gender. I think there is a extremely obvious trouble with female, on female relations. It’s been cemented, by other female jellies , that they ( females, are challenged by trying to coexist, with other females.)

It’s a fact. Women, have difficulty, dealing with other women… It doesn’t mean that they are bad people. It’s just an easy observation…

Also consider that if females have trouble relating with there mothers or mother figure then it goes to say that if it is not ironed out by adulthood then those conflicts will continue with other females in there life. Same with men also with fathers and or father figures.

I haven’t had much trouble working with other women, except in cake decorating, but that is because it is a very competitive business.

Who I object to working with is short men. Men who are 5½’ or less have a chip on their shoulder. Short men tend to have short fuses in the workplace.

Woman bosses often are harder on other women. Men bosses are harder on men. Problem with both is that they figure, if I can come to work every day and do x, y and z, so can you. When they look at people of the opposite sex, they just automatically assume they are not as capable. Not all the time but it happens enough for people to feel that people of their own sex is bias against them. In a way they are. I’ve done it myself. Work, take care of kids and cut my own lawn, and clean and cook and still go to work every day even when I had my cycle and it was a bad one.. It would irk me when I would have a single young female come to work and complain that they can’t do much because they just had their cycle or if I could help cover for them because they didn’t get much sleep because they stayed up playing video games or out clubbing, and I couldn’t just stayed up most of the night with my asthmatic kid. To be honest. I felt the same way whether you were male or female. But no doubt, other women didn’t like me and thought I was a b-tch, simply because I wouldn’t take on their job as well as mine.
Guy bosses rarely expected me to do more than my job. Female bosses, especially the work a-holic one wanted me to do my hours and extra without pay. When male bosses asked me to stay longer, they never had problem authorizing the over time. Female bosses trying to prove themselves tend to try to advance by not costing the company more by getting free labor. Again. Just my personnel experience. Not always their fault though. If they have a male boss over them, they rarely were given authority to pay over time. Men bosses never have to get approval. It’s automatically in their authority.

Passive aggression, peer pressure, and cattiness do not belong to one gender. If you stop and watch you can see them employed in all sorts of contexts no matter gender.

There is also nothing inherent in women being “women” that keeps them from working together. If you’re part of a group that has been treated as lesser, and you’re trying to compete at a higher level, there are two common strategies you’ll likely use (which are not necessarily mutually exclusive). One, you compete against other members of your “lesser group” to climb the hierarchy you can while not disturbing your standing with (remaining nonthreatening to) the members of the “superior group.” Two, you distance yourself as much as possible from the “lesser group” in your behavior, associations, etc., so that the “superior group” accepts you more than the others of your “group”.... This is my very rough paraphrase of something I heard sociologist describe at one point. I can’t remember where I heard it so I haven’t been able to pull it up again. But basically, we see these strategies employed because of the—bare with me here—legacy of sexism and patriarchy in our society. It’s about the dynamic between the genders, not the fact of gender itself, a dynamic which is seen in other contexts, too… At least, that’s my take. I think that’s at least part of it.

I never saw it as “lesser.” Females hated the prettiest girls the most. The more attractive, the more the “group” hated her, and found things to be mad about.
Females seem to bond, over hate of other females. Although, they still gate each other too, they have a common enemy. When the enemy leaves, they turn on each other. If the enemy returns, they reunite.

A lot seems to do with attention. If they feel one girl is getting too much attention, they will unite against her.

Then. It seems to break down to whom they feel physically superior to, for their comfort levels. There is definitely a competitiveness, or jealousy, at play.

Some females, will try to take another female’s mate, only to drop them immediately after the other female is hurt. The intention seems clear. Take her man. Use him. Dump him. And be happy she hurt the other girl.

Or. They must keep the “shit stirred.” Making sure drama is constant…

It’s nature…

Growing up my daughter had more male friends than female. I asked her about it one time and she said that with a group of women there is too much drama for her taste, too much sniping and backstabbing and it goes on and on. When she hung out with mostly guy friends she noticed they would give each other grief then go get a coke or something together and it was over with.
Such is life.

@rojo Exactly my feelings.

I’ve been working a long time and I assure you, it’s not the men screaming at eachother and crying at work, or leaving early because of high emotions.

TBH, I want to believe women can be equal in the workplace, and I think some of us can.

@rojo Your daughter’s feelings were just like mine. My mother felt the same way. We preferred male company, not because they were charming or flirtatious, but because they were down to earth.

@MrGrimm888 I’ve never experienced that. It sounds horrible.

@Soubresaut I must apologize. That went over my head.

@Pandora Based on that statement, it is understandable how you feel. In the US, if one is at a manager level, they are paid a salary, not hourly. If one is on a salary, they are paid the same no matter how many hours they work. If one is hourly, it can vary by state. In some, it is eight hours a day for five days a week (40 hours). There are other states that consider working 40 hours over seven or less days acceptable.

@Pied_Pfeffer no apologies needed. It was late when I was writing it, and I was tired and having a hard time wording it, and I probably should have just gone to sleep instead. I guess I’ll try again. I was trying to recall something I’d heard that discussed the apparent “women being mean to women” phenomenon, especially in the workplace. The basic point was that it wasn’t about women being women as much as women being people trying to navigate a situation where they’re categorized with less social status. Two common strategies individuals in that kind of situation may use are: to compete against others within their lower-status category; to try and distance themselves from that lower-status category. So, in the case of “females against females,” you would have women at an individual level trying to one-up one another rather than trying to one-up men, and women trying to distance themselves from behaviors or associations that would be perceived as “too feminine,” so that they can be recognized instead as “one of the boys” in contrast to other women.

I also want to add that I didn’t mean to suggest that everything a given woman in the workplace does is somehow “explained” by one or both of those “strategies,” just that they’re common human strategies in certain circumstances, not innate gender-based behavior. I also don’t mean to suggest they’re the only “strategies.” I mostly find them interesting because they’re strategies for some number of individuals to succeed by participating in a system that otherwise puts them at some disadvantage (whatever that may be, and to whatever degree).

Eh, still feels like I’m describing this too abstractly/vaguely to make sense. I really need to figure out where I heard this discussion so I can share it. That way, too, it’s not filtered through me. I’m sure I’m distorting this idea.

Not sure if this is even relevant, but when I worked at CellOne our office manager quit. They put “Tammy” in her position. Tammy did not even want the job, but they didn’t ask her. She kind of reached out to me because I, actually, had a lot of authority in the office. I just did, but I couldn’t be named manager because they were only chosen from the sales line. I was customer service.

So I found myself at her side quite often. One time we were interviewing a gal. Tammy had a list of about 10 questions to ask. Suddenly, after the 3rd question, this gal just breaks down in tears, sobbing and crying over the break up of her marriage over a year earlier. I was dumbfounded.
I assumed the interview was over, right then and there…but to my shock, after the gal pulled herself together, Tammy kept asking the questions like nothing had happened…..AND THEN SHE HIRED HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I could NOT believe it! I just don’t think a man would have handled it that way. Of course, both Tammy and I knew what kinds trials single mothers go through, and that’s basically where the gal was coming from so…IDK. If it had been up to me I wouldn’t have hired her.
BUT, guess who got tapped to go fire her about 8 months later, because she kept crying to customers…..

Females, seem to have a “wheel of emotions.” The wheel changes, at random timrs, and to random emotions. The more consistent male personalities, match better with the random female personas. When it’s an office full of emotion wheels changing at random times, they agitate each other.

The word “drama,” is very appropriate. In my observations, some females cannot live without it. If it isn’t there, they will find a way to create it, and be upset by it…

Average number of responses per female jelly: 1.8

Number of responses from MrGrimm888: 10

Considering that the question is about female dynamics, I think it makes sense to defer to female jellies in this particular case?

^Well. To answer your response, I’ll have to raise my average answers. Is that OK with you?

Your response also indicates that you feel that a male, is perhaps incapable of observing the female gender, and offering opinion on the question asked… The op did not offer stipulations about number of responses , from selective genders.

Woops. Now. If you respond, you’ll drive up female response, also going against your issue… If respond with a good flurry, you will have contradicted yourself…

If the OP, is upset with me, I will gladly leave the thread… They need but to ask…

If @MrGrimm888 & @raum have an extended debate, then we’re going to see a major string of generic-jellyfish avatars. ;-o

I like my avatar… But…THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE !!!!!!!!!!!

Come on guys. Use your imagination and get a new avatar.

@MrGrimm888

Given that you don’t think women work well together:

If you were an employer, would you strive to ensure that your number of female employees, was at most less than 50% of the entire work force?

Would you employ as few women as you could?

@chyna

ITA: people who use generic jelly avatars, must have NO right-brain function!

I just realized, once I change my av, my previous comment will look rather insulting. ;-o

@Brian1946 . Honestly, I never thought about NOT hiring females. In some trades, there are a majority of one gender. It is what it is. I’ll hire them.

In retail? I’d hire ALL hot girls. It would be a mess, but our satisfaction numbers would be great. I know more than a few retail managers, who did really well like that.

Hmm. I stumbled upon a interesting point. Surveys, are usually good, when the employee is a pretty girl. Why is that interesting? Because women must give them.good marks too. They can’t work together. But when they are fine, outside of a competitive environment… Or… That’s the conclusion that I will draw…

Has anyone else looked at this question in their line up and think for a moment, “Was that a NSFW question?”

^Not unless dildos were involved…

@MrGrimm888 I appreciate that you’re interested in being part of this conversation. And the other male jellies too.

It adds to the conversation to have some male perspective. But when you start speaking about how all women feel, it just starts getting a little weird.

Even being female, I can’t speak for all of my gender.

You can’t speak for your observations? Well. Ok….

Of course you can speak from your observations. But, regardless of gender, your observations are limited. Certainly not enough to speak to the entire gender.

Well. I can say, that most women pee sitting down. I think I can speak for the entire gender there…. That’s an example of observation based opinion, that doesn’t require living as that gender, to come to a conclusion.

Peeing sitting down is a physical observation that’s not trying to speak for their feelings or motivation.

No
Peeing while sitting, is a choice.

A man is also capable of peeing whilst sitting. We choose not to.

Hey, I do it…at home, at least. Not that that’s anyone’s business :P

^And that’s a choice. It speaks to how you make decisions.

I prefer to pee outside. I pee in my yard whenever possible. Again. Choice.

Choice, and motivation, have an undeniable relationship…

Actually, there are quite a lot of women who pee squatting.
Think Hyderabad. Also icky public restrooms.

Correct. And that’s a choice, and there are motivating factors. If the restroom is nasty, and the female would rather hover over the seat, or pee outside, I can therefore assume, through observation, that females prefer not to put their butt on a nasty toilet seat. There you have it. Opinions, based on observed choices, and behavior. Simple…

I’m pretty sure the vast majority of us get our lady parts as close to the target as possible, so we aren’t peeing all over our legs and who knows what. I kinda wish men would do the same, at least inside.