Is it ever appropriate to "politicize" a death?

Not sure. But if these xenophobic assholes want to have this conversation now, claiming they want to reduce violence, then the facts show that we must start expelling native born males and increasing immigration.

These people have no interest in reducing crime. Their life’s work has been to create conditions for increased violence. So we can play their game of politicizing, or we can hand out white sheets and tiki torches so they’re more easily recognizable.

What else do politicians do, if not politicize?

Well, W politicised the hell out of 11/9. Not many complained.

(Biting tongue)

Well, some people want their deaths to be a political statement. Thích Quảng Đức, for example.
Some deaths simply are political, like Martin Kings.

But to politicize the death of someone with no political ties, such as Tibbets, is disgusting to me. Especially when the fact that the guy was an immigrant has not a thing to do with her death.

The point is moot. Appropriate or not, if the death can be utilized politically, you can depend on it occurring.

Mollie was a small town college girl, and her parents are grieving, her friends are grieving, the whole country is grieving.
Mollie’s life may not have been political, but her death was.
And, the owners of the farm where the illegal alien worked, have been receiving death threats.
Painful as it is, it is, and will be for a while.

He was working on the farm legally. The problem is not that he was from another country. The problem is that he was a MAN who approached a woman and when she rejected his advances he killed her. That has absolutely nothing to do with his citizen status. Plenty of American men kill women just for rejecting their advances. Why aren’t those deaths politicized?

He was not there legally. He got the job with a false ID. That is fact, and much reported on every network.
There is no absolutely no evidence of any rejected advances.
You are fantasizing.

1) It does not matter.
2) OK, we don’t know why he killed her but it doesn’t matter. Legally, or illegally here, he was a murderer, end of story. But so is Chris Watts. So is Charles Manson.

This horrible thing does not prove Trump statement. ”All Mexicans are rapists and murderers !”

Critical thinking is required not following the Stable Genius.

Show me where/when he said all.
No don’t. We’ve been here before.
Nobody can prove he said all Mexicans, or that he ever actually did grab yunno, but everybody stills keeps claiming them fact and repeating.

1. When making a point accuracy does matter.
2. Closing off the source of as many murderers as possible is an improvement, but apparently if you can’t make it 100% then who cares about trying at all.
Hey, let’s all go kill some people. It is wrong, but if some born citizens are doing it, by golly, everyone should.

What stupid reasoning.

@Patty_Melt: “Closing off the source of as many murderers as possible is an improvement, but apparently if you can’t make it 100% then who cares about trying at all.”

You apparently don’t want to try. If you’re making this about demographics, you’re going to have to start expelling/executing US citizens and increasing immigration.

But that’s a complete horseshit way to go. It just reveals how unserious you are about your concern about crime/murder. This is just an excuse to exercise your xenophobia and racism.

@Patty_Melt I know this is a Major media magazine (THE PRESS IS THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE)

Time magazine’s article of Here Are All the Times Donald Trump Insulted Mexico !!!

In my opinion, politicization of death is inevitable. We see these deaths as part of a larger societal problem and we want to get our word in about what we think would prevent more of these deaths (whether it’s gun control or stricter immigration laws or what have you). The problem I think is that people think only about getting their opinion out there without considering that these are real people who are gone and there are real people mourning them. Maybe a little reflection might be in order before we jump up on the soapbox.

Don’t assume too much. I have spent a lot of time mourning, thinking about her poor boyfriend and how he had to suffer the loss knowing that for a couple of hours he was suspect. Her parents. The owners of the farm, knowing a killer had worked for them, with them. The people who searched and searched for a body, hoping there wouldn’t be one, hoping she would be found alive. The officers, who have to guard the killer, and keep their composure. Her parents, who just lost a daughter who was only a little older than mine.

And all those things make me boil to think they can’t just hang the guy and be done with him.

I hope you spent as much time grieving over the thousands of separated children, by the Trump administration.

Maybe you can trade this dead girl, for the one a legal Trumper ran his car into in Charlottesville. This is a RIDICULOUS argument.
Trumpers won’t be crying over people dying of preventable causes, when they destroy the ACA. Nope. It won’t matter that Americans are dying then…

They simply cling to whatever can remotely justify their racism, and bigotry…

Grim, it isn’t necessary or appropriate to link everything and everyone you don’t like to racism. It’s crazymaking.

I hate to break it to you, but conservative media, is what linked this to “race.” They are using it to “justify” the dehumanizing war, on brown people.

It’s sad you can’t make the distinction…. But not surprising…

For a man who claims to be against bigotry, you sure do judge a lot of people you don’t know, and largely by skin color.
You say is and them more than anyone I know.

Tell me. What positive news, have you heard about immigrants? Any? Ever? If that’s the case, you should be obviously wary of your sources.
To believe Trump’s words. Millions of illegal immigrants, are crossing daily. If we only have this one to be mad at, the illegals, are FAR better people than our legals.

I’m sorry you fell victim to the conservative media’s agenda. I didn’t expect such a strong person to be susceptible, to pathetic fear mongering…

I guess we should just machine gun them all to death, at the border. Because one out of millions might be bad. Let’s ignore the fact that there have been 18 indictments in the Trump administration, versus this one from an illegal. No need to compare. Let’s just focus on this one illegal.

Myself? I have several good friends who are immigrants and many of them are not “legal”. It’s a tremendously difficult situation.

#1. On the one hand you have honest people doing the work nobody else in this country will do (such as janitorial, landscaping and farm work). I work closely with people in the janitorial field and I know what I’m talking about. People who have businesses in these fields already have a very difficult time finding a citizen or a legal immigrant to work these jobs.

It will get impossible to find workers for these necessary services when they round up more and more “illegal” but honest immigrants. I don’t know if anybody has figured out how to resolve the food shortage problem if they prevent the food from being harvested because of lack of workers. This employment shortage must be addressed long before they finish that wall.

#2. On the other hand you’ve got the land being flooded with all kinds of drug runners and human trafficking. Land owners property is destroyed by drug runners and traffickers. Both citizens and illegal immigrants are killed, and children are abused. It’s a terrible situation and there are no easy answers. None.

This situation is far more complex than anybody can take in at a glance, and regardless how the authorities choose to resolve it, there are going to be a lot of very unhappy people.

@MrGrimm, I know you’re really upset by this, but it’s far more complex than just calling it racism, and just blasting everybody you don’t like. If you really want to make a difference why don’t you dig in and help?

@snowberry . If you think I’m “just blasting everybody you don’t like,” you have missed my entire message. My comments have been reactive. Only those who choose to feel their own insecurities, have felt called out, though they were not.

As far as digging in and helping, that is what I am doing. I am countering the white nationalists, and Christian Americans. (I separated the two, for the thin skinned.)

No. It really isn’t more complex than racism, unless you include fear of losing white Christian culture. I bundle the two, because that is the combination causing all of the problems.

I’m getting sick of jellies thinking it’s smart , to call me to “action.” If America is in such danger, why don’t YOU go guard the borders? Or do you hate America?

Pushing back, in public, and on social media, is doing something. Look at how upset some of our jellies are? Now. They can continue their support of the war on non-white Christians, but with full knowledge that they will be judged harshly for it, even if they cannot admit their bigotry.

This is the chink, in the Trumper’s armor. They want to be bigots, but live as if they are the good guys, and just trying to overcome persecution. Only their own sheep believe that, and the more shame they receive the better. If they want a war, they’ve got it. I will step up the pressure, every time they do. I will not allow right wing propaganda, to go unchallenged. I’m not afraid of them. They are pathetic, greedy, cowards. I LOVE that they can’t lay comfortably, in the bed they’ve made, and I will never let it be comfortable. They will never be able to stretch their bigot blanket, enough to keep their ankles warm. I will open the windows, I will mess with the thermostat, I will piss on their sheets, like Trump with an underage Russian prostitute. And when I get tired…. Someone else will…

If you are a conservative, whom doesn’t back Trump, it is YOU who have work to do. Like it or not, you are tied to these people. In the same way conservatives hold all Muslims accountable for the actions of an extreme few, the Christians now, have to get THEIR house in order. Trumpers, Christians, racists, bigots, xenophobes, are ALL lumped together now. Their breath would be MUCH better spent talking their own out of their intolerant ways, than wasting it talking to me.

When liberals, or atheists, start destroying the world, I’ll try to talk sense into them. The right frequently places blame for high crime areas with the community to fix. Well. It’s their turn. Fix the bigotry, intolerance, and susceptibility to fear mongering, and you won’t hear a peep from me…

Until then. Get your popcorn ready…

Ok…so you see yourself as a “reactionary. That’s impressive. I bet you’ve got a lot of people following you around. Keep it up, my friend.

I’m not sure if building a wall is the answer, but it’s a start. Maybe it will happen, and maybe it won’t.

Unfortunately, your caricature of conservatives is so far off, it’s unworkable. I am much happier and more effective actually helping relieve the distress of people in difficulty. I’ve been working beside or helping “brown” people for 20 years, as well as teaching English as a second language, working in a food bank or assisting with various activities of daily living.

I have noticed that bi-partisan efforts get things done much more efficiently and with more satisfaction than if one side must capitulate. Go be reactionary. I’ll keep doing what I’ve been doing, and working beside my liberal friends to accomplish our bipartisan goals.

^Lol. Teaching English. LMAO! ..
Very tolerant… Learning Spanish? How’s that going Mr. Tollerance!

@snowberry . I don’t care about followers. I’m actually targeting the conservatives/Trumpers.

I think it’s lazy to not want to learn the culture, coming at you. If we accept them to learn our culture, why wouldn’t we accept part of their’s?

I agree with you. I love learning about and celebrating other cultures, and that’s one reason I teach ESL. I know a bit of French and I’m learning Spanish. How many languages do you speak?

App won’t work. See you all, when I can..

Regarding Mollie Tibbitts: the push to make this tragedy a story about immigrantion is incredibly disingenuous. A member of a group committed a crime, therefore we should condemn that entire group? You could say this about literally any crime. Any time a white boy shoots up a school you could say that all white boys should be imprisoned. Doesn’t make it true.

In fact, immigrants, both legal and illegal, commit less crime per capita than native-born Americans, so the push to condemn immigrants based on this particular crime is especially illogical.

Furthermore, if you read what actually happened to this poor girl, you might see how this story has less to do immigration and far more to do with something else: She was jogging; a man catcalled her, followed her in his car, got out of his car and started running after her. She threatened to call the police; he got angry and murdered her.

This doesn’t have anything to do with race, nationality, or immigration status. Shit like this, usually stopping before outright violence, luckily, happens to women every day, perpetrated by American men. This is an issue of male entitlement and toxic masculinity culture.

As for politicizing tragedy in general, sure, it can be appropriate. For example, if I die because I can’t get access to healthcare in our shitty-ass healthcare system, I want y’all to shout my story from the rooftops. There would be no greater honor for me in death than to use my story to advocate for a better system such that this shit doesn’t kill more people in the future. But appropriating a victim’s story to push for an agenda that the victim didn’t believe in is shitty behavior, and the Tibbitts family has made it clear that they don’t believe in condemning the entire immigrant population based on this incident.

I’m not seriously advocating this myself, but if these anti-immigration bigots are really concerned about the safety of US women, they should try to implement a policy that bans all men from every country, from immigrating to and/or visiting the US.

OOhhh @Brian1946 A ManBan! How exquisite! Just made for TV..

Actually, it is to be expected and yeah, both sides will do it. One side will use it to try to justify their own hatreds and fears about immigrants while the other will show actual facts that repudiate these fears. All of which will amount to naught because both sides are not listening to each other and Mollie will be a martyr/victim until, eventually, becoming just another statistic in the ongoing culture war.

@Patty_Melt, FYI “Rivera told authorities he got out of his car and pursued her, and she threatened to call police if he didn’t stop… (women) face the risk of violence any time they rebuff a man’s approach. Mollie Tibbetts’ case brings home for women in the harshest terms the ways in which misogyny hinders their freedom, their very right to exist.”

CNN

Some people have things turned around. They think conservatives want to stop illegals from entering the country because of the murders, rapes, and other crimes committed here by some of them. That is not the reason. It is an aspect.
Their reason is because it is illegal.
It is illegal for the same reasons we are not forced to allow strangers in our homes. National boundaries are just as vital to survival, peace, harmonious relationships as are personal boundaries.
It is like when parents are out of town, and the teen kids throw a party. Okay, some guys show up who weren’t invited. Fine. No big deal. One of them brought a couple of six packs.
In a couple of hours, music, beer, snacks, people are feeling pretty good. A few strangers are noticed, but so what? A friend probably brought them.
The next morning stuff is missing, and a naked girl is in the bedroom crying and a lady cop is trying to calm her down.
Party probably should have been kept at friends only, not because we hate everyone we don’t know, but it just would have been a better way to keep things manageable.

Except in this case, the statistics show that the strangers are literally more trustworthy than the friends, sooo…..

No one is saying we shouldn’t have border laws. What we are saying is the fact that it does not make one bit of difference whether the guy was here legally or not. He’s a murderer, and we have plenty home grown murders of our own.

If we are going that route then let us try this scenario @Patty_Melt

You are at home, knocking back a couple of cold ones
A neighbor from two houses down comes over (walking through your immediate neighbors yard), knocks on your door and asks that you help protect her and let her and her child in because her husband is beating her and has threatened to kill her.
You say, no, that you have no more room in your twelve bedroom house (and besides, you already have a housekeeper, she is scheduled for tomorrow).
She goes to a window on the side of the house and climbs in, bringing her sobbing child with her.
You call the police, have her child taken away from her, have her arrested then go back to your beer.
The cops write her up for trespassing and take her back to her husband who proceeds to beat the shit out of her yet again..
BUT they have forgotten what they did with the kid who, they think, is somewhere up in New York or possibly Montana but safe, mind you, safe.
The cops tell the ACLU it is up to them to find the child and reunite the family and Oh, yeah, the wife is back where she belongs so that should be easy.
Meanwhile, your beer has gotten warm sitting on the coffee table so you throw it out, get you a cold one and sit back and contemplate how crazy and mean spirited the world has become what with neighbors breaking into other neighbors houses.

Nice @rojo.

We do let people in.
Your scenario is flawed in that there are two hundred adults in your front yard, and in the street. There are both men and women, and most have kids. They are all shouting that they need to get into your home to be safe.
Lots of the kids have injuries, and you don’t know who hurt them. You call the police to come sort this out. The police find out a couple of these kids are kidnapped, so now everyone gets separated until they can clean up the kids, treat injuries, get statements, and find out who all these kids belong to.
You go back into your house to get that cold one. You find seventeen people inside. Some are crouched in a corner, looking afraid. One has cut your dog’s throat and is trying to get into your bedroom at your sleeping wife.
You want those cops in there getting these people out. Arrest all of them. The innocent ones will be turned loose, but not back in your house. The guilty maniac is jailed. None of this brings back your dog, but goddammit you check prices on alarm systems and security windows.
And then you pop that next beer knowing no matter who knocks on your front door, no m%”(“r f<8fy>r will be coming in the windows.

Wow. Hate much?

And yet you wont get into an elevator with men.
Talk out both sides of your mouth much?

What does feeling uncomfortable with getting in an elevator that is only occupied by one man, who looked you up and down the minute the doors opened, have to do with helping families?

If I had 200 people on my lawn (which is ridiculous) I’d have to pick someone, at least one family to try and help. I’d just have to. And I would call the police and ask for their help, and not just in getting rid of the Latino trash so my lawn can be happy again. I’d call because they have the resources to deal with it, that I don’t have. But I would help those that I could. I understand would not. Not your problem.

Laughing hysterically at the likelihood.

Isn’t the entire point is that some illegal immigrants are wonderful people and add to our melting pot and others are criminals causing harm. One I would fight to protect, one I would fight to jail.

The fact is, liberals can’t hide from the fact that some people are not good and do not have good intentions in our country. As with Mollie’s death.

Conservatives can’t hide from the fact that many immigrants are good people, looking for safe harbour from a terrible life. I’ve seen it, I know it’s true.

I know it’s true too @KNOWITALL.

@Dutchess_III Okay, then let’s go a step further, we’ve known each other long enough and met face to face.

If you know it’s true and I know it’s true, then why am I called a racist , or bad person, or Trump lover for wanting a legal background done?

I guess I didn’t know that you were called that. What were the circumstances surrounding it?

The legal process, though, is so far out of reach for some of those immigrants, for so many reasons, that they pay as well have to pay $5 million to come here. I have just as much empathy for them, more, actually, than I do for those who have the means and education to come here legally.

Just to keep things in Perspective

Exactly, @rojo. Exactly.

“The fact is, liberals can’t hide from the fact that some people are not good and do not have good intentions in our country. As with Mollie’s death.
Conservatives can’t hide from the fact that many immigrants are good people, looking for safe harbour from a terrible life. I’ve seen it, I know it’s true.“

I’m conservative, and I’ve basically said almost exactly the same thing in other posts. And yet, according to @Grimm and others, I’m bad just cuz I’m conservative, regardless of how I think. This is crazy.

The problem is intractable, but that doesn’t justify the portrayal of refugees as aggregate rapists and murderers. The depiction is handy justification for the brutalization of desperate people, but it is dishonest on it’s face and shamefully unworthy of my country and what it professes to be.

So what’s to be done? If gone unchallenged, would the Trump policy of “we’ll snatch your kids & lose em” stem the tide? The only way to brutalize our way to success is to guarantee that our brutality exceeds whatever horrors propel these people North. We might simply machine gun people we catch violating the borders. THAT might do it. But our current efforts amount to emptying the ocean with a bucket. And in view of the expense (the revenue now dedicated to immigrant regulation and border enforcement now exceeds the combined budgets for all other Federal law enforcement agencies) perhaps serious consideration should be given to eliminating the conditions driving desperate people North.

What kids are lost?
The kids are separated to determine who they really belong with.

No Miss Melt. The thing that distinguishes Trump’s separation of children from the days of Obama is that Trump made it rather clear that NO effort would me made to insure which child belonged to whom, which is why some 400 or so remained unaccounted for last week.

@snowberry That’s because hollering ‘racist’ is easier and shuts you down.

Plus white, christian, conservative = bad person (to people who have no critical thinking skills.)

You can’t let idiots hurt your feelings, snowy, because on this site, some people thrive on that.

And those are the ones to avoid, or knowing you, pray for.

Haven’t you been paying attention to the news @Patty_Melt ? As of a month ago over 500 kids have still not been reunited with their families. In many cases it’s because authorities snatched the kids then turned around and deported the parents. The kids don’t know where their parents are, the parents don’t know where the kids are, and authorities don’t know where the parents are.
If that’s not lost, @Patty_Melt, I don’t know what is.

I have not heard of that story, from any angle.
I watch a lot of news, but I don’t’t have my own upi access.
Where can I find something about this?

You can find it on virtually every reputable news outlet.
This one is from the ACLU.

I’ll go find more. What is the news outlet of your choice, @Patty_Melt?

Here is from the CNN.

From The Cut (not vetted.)

@snowberry . Incorrect. I have not called you anything, directly. I understand why you are mad at me, but I’m really speaking about Trump supporters. I have a bad habit, of not separating conservatives, from Trumpers. That’s MY fault. In many cases, I am just referring to Trumpers.

Dutch. I have heard many different numbers, in regards to how many people are still displaced from each other. There was apparently NO plan, on how to reunite these people. I think that’s what offends me the most. I’ve heard of cases, where kids were drugged, to stop their hysteria. That makes me want to kill someone. I cannot imagine how traumatic it would have been for me to be separated from my parents, as a child. It is one of the most atrocious things, I’ve ever seen our government do.

Every jelly who pulled the Trump lever, in 2016, has a role in this. Like it, or not. I don’t need to hear “but I love my brown neighbors,” from people trying to justify their thoughts on race. Saying “I have black friends, at work,” or even talking about dating brown people, as a badge of proof they aren’t racist.
When I hear them considering these people, as actual human beings, then we can move forward.

And Dutch. I believe that you would help a family in need. I would too. I was a refugee myself, after my last flood, and had to rely on the kindness of my friends and family, to survive. I would be homeless, jobless, and maybe dead by now, without their help. I didn’t choose the circumstances, that made me a refugee, any more than these immigrants did. I hope our country stops being so hateful, and greedy, and gives these desperate people a hand up.

And every American who DIDN’T pull a lever, and every American who threw their vote away on a third party is to blame.

Of course I would. I’d even help you @MrGrimm888 . As long as you weren’t in an elevator. You know.

Lol. I didn’t vote. And I have conceded my role. But it was not a direct action.

Dutch. You wouldn’t be the first to be uncomfortable around me. I’ve lost 50 lbs, because I don’t have to fight every damn night anymore, but I guess I still have a formidable appearance. I was on an elevator last week, with just a small woman. Her fear was palpable. When she got off, she seemed relieved… That makes me sad sometimes… Especially when kids are afraid of me… So. No. I don’t expect you would be happy sharing a small place with me.
Ironically, I would never let anything bad happen to a female. They are far safer around me, than not. But I get it…

If either of you came to my door in need, I would help you, and in return you could help me replace bulbs I can’t reach.
What our border authorities are faced with however is not a family or two, and not all of them are safe. Sorting has got to happen, and the only way for that to work is if we turn back those who try to bypass the system.
By the way, which of you is the better cook?

Better cook? Without even knowing, I’m guessing Dutch…

I think they are “bypassing” the system, because it sucks.
I was leaving a Metallica concert many years ago. There were like 5 gates, for 35,000 people to leave through. It was taking forever, and the crowd was drunk, and riled up. The gates had chain link fences between them. Everyone seemed to get the idea, at the same time. Fuck this fence. Thousands of us hit it, at once. It was like a hot knife through butter. Legal? Oh no. Are you going to stop thousands of people with a barrier? Nope…

If I were one of them, I would sneak in, and take my chances.

Addie once told us that he stopped to give a lady, who had 3 small kids, a hand changing a tire. He used those same words….“Her fear was palpable.” It made him feel really bad as well.
That makes me sad for you guys, and I’m sorry too. But a woman just never, ever knows when we’re going to find ourselves in trouble.

^Well. Like I said, I understand. I would want any female to be the same. I think women should be alert at all times, and wary of most males. My understanding of statistics, is that it is often not a strange man, who usually assaults a female. It’s someone they may have known, for a period of time. So. You have to be aware of the people you are around.

I do feel sad, when people are afraid of me. But I understand. I guess I’m happy they have common sense, that should improve their chances of survival.

A man in an elevator.

Imagine a man in the woods. And you’re both naked, because it’s 10,000 years ago? I can imagine, that would not be what a female would like to see.

I don’t trust ANYONE. I am wary of almost anyone I have an interaction with. It’s not paranoia, it’s “staying woke.”

I got on an elevator once which made me nervous. I had to take the rail home from work, after midnight. My stop was at a parking lot, empty at night, gates closed. There was an elevator which went up one level, to a walkway on an overhead bridge.
Mind you, this was before I was stricken. I was a powerhouse in those days, small and shapely, but with fire in my veins and the strength and agility actresses ought to display when they are being super heroes.

One night, I hopped from the rail car and headed for the elevator. I heard a sound, and turned to see two gangbangers leave a different car. I was closer to the elevator, and I hoped to be in before they could get to it. At least on the bridge we would be visible to passing traffic. No way I was going to run though.
One guy was bald, beefy, and ink on his scalp. The other was lanky. Neither was taller than 5’9.
The doors were closing and I could hear whispers approaching. At the last second a tattooed hand popped in and the doors opened. It was just like the spooky music moment in a slasher movie.
I had already pressed the button up, so, there we stood.
Did I mention this was an uncomfortably slow elevator? I could climb a cable faster than it could.
Inky bald guy said, “Gimmee a cigarette.”
I looked right in those killer eyes and said, “Gimmee died.” I think his heart stopped. He looked punched in the chest. His friend grinned, but also his eyebrows go up. He was just waiting to see how it played out.
“what?”
Flat, and even, “Gimmee died. Get your own cigarette.”
Like the same slasher film, the doors slid open. I walked out, and towards home. I looked back to see they had left the elevator, but just stood there, finally turned the other way, and left. I wasn’t scared any more, I was ticked that he’d tried to intimidate me.
I still like to imagine he got home and told his girl they were done.

I am always stunned, when I hear about a female who doesn’t carry mace.

All should….IMO…

You’re assuming we have a place to carry it.

Just carry a knife

Nothing would put a woman in harms way faster than physically threatening a man. That’s an attack on his ego.

I think in my case the friend was my best protection, because that guy had to think that if I was that confident maybe I could kick his ass, and his friend would be there to see it.

Dutch. Females carry all kinds of crappie around. They could find a way to carry something that may save their life.

So you assume all women carry purses? I don’t.

@MrGrimm888
Loving the mansplaining, btw.

LOLL!

I never carry fish with me.

Lol. Yeah. Just noticed the crappie typo.

Loving how women think people offering good advice, automatically ends up being considered “mansplaining.” When you’re locked in a basement in Ohio, maybe you can “womansplain” your way out…

You mean Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

It’s mansplaining when you feel you need to explain to a woman what types of things women typically carry around. I guess mace is a good idea…IF you carry a purse. Not all women carry purses. Not all women carry large roomy purses with room for a can of mace.

Also, are you seriously assuming none of us thought to carry mace before you mentioned it?

That’s what mansplaining is.

I have searched thousands of purses. So. Yeah. I feel like I can offer opinions there.

The vast majority of women don’t carry mace.

I remember when I worked at the emergency veterinary hospital, we had a guy calling, and threatening the women. When I was about to leave at around 2AM, he had called about a dozen times. The police were notifed. As I was leaving I told the remaining 5 employees, all female, that I recommend they keep their mace handy, throughout the night. Not one had any. And they worked all alone, overnight…

I know that the vast majority of women don’t care mace, because we choose NOT to carry mace. I don’t because I don’t have anything to carry it it.

They make little ones, that are key chains. I assume you have keys. Anyways, just a recommendation…

Good question. Is it only if it’s an elected politician, that it’s called politicizing? I’m not sure. How can it be talked about it any other way? I’m not sure.

@flo Exactly. The Reps just want the Dems to admit that some dangerous people slip in. A wall may not be the answer but agreeing there’s a real issue to fix together is part of progress.

^Climate change is a real issue. And, it has actually realistic answers to help affect change.

Just saying…

The point is that there are “some” dangerous people in literally every demographic.

^Yes. But insecure, low information Trumpers, eat this shit like candy.

The truth, is not as important as the loudest voice in the room, these days…

@MrGrimm I also have real concerns about the environment but people are too lazy to even recycle. It feels hopeless.

^Well. You stabbed mother nature in the back by voting Trump… It’s definitely more hopeless now…

There is a new project underway, that is designed to reduce the massive trash continent in the Pacific Ocean. There are growing numbers of solar, and wind farms. I just read an article saying that they may one day put vast solar power farms in the Sahara. The article said that a big enough solar farm would actually bring rain to the region, and stop the spread of the desert.

There is plenty of hope, if we try. Trump would rather boost coal power, and has already gutted the EPA for the advantages of large corporations, and has pulled the US from major environmentally responsible agreements. The US had the largest role, in helping the world help itself. As in many cases now, the world will have to go it without the US…

Yeah. You voted for a president, who knowingly and willingly, put oil lobbyists and climate change deniers in charge of the EPA, and who directly gutted emission regulations for automobiles, and opened nature preserves to be destroyed by industry. You really have no standing to complain.

^That’s a little harsher than I like, but it doesn’t change the facts.

One of you admittedly doesn’t vote and the other isn’t in my country (yawn)....my carbon footprint is pretty small, how about yours?

There’s a lot of math involved with finding out my actual carbon footprint. I read an article once about how to calculate it. You have to include things like trips on an airplane. Those are BIG ones.

My carbon footprint has changed drastically, from when I was youger. I have owned multiple motorcycles, and trucks, with little or no emission control. My current truck meets California standards. I used to fish in power boats. Now I fish from kayak or canoe. Used to use live bait. Now only fake stuff. I also try to fill a plastic bag with trash I find while doing long treks on the Edisto.

What I’m getting at is, sometimes it’s not a person’s past, but how they change for the better, because they learned to improve. Trumpers would be wise to do just that. Learn. And change the world for the better.

I’m no angel still. But I think I am a better person today, than I was.

@MrGrimm888 Admirable, I also try to clean up as I go on our streams, lakes and rivers. Just looking at crack pipes, string and trash next to a beautiful lake (10 minutes from my home) almost makes me cry.

I’m definately a better person, congrats to you on changing as well.

*Keeping politics out of our conversations works much better for me, thanks.

Whether or not loli is a US citizen doesn’t much change the validity of their statement.

Yawning at facts is pretty much how the current administration has been reacting to any environmental concerns. It’s not a very productive approach.

@raum Did I, in any way, say Trumps policies are good for our environment? No, I did not.

(yawn)

So…you do understand that Trump’s policies are bad for the environment?

That’s a start, I guess.

@raum Well yes of course!

(btw, I don’t tell anyone how I vote, so whatever you believe here from other people about me, is on you. I assure you neither Grimm or raging know much about me at all other than what I want them to know. Or who I voted for the in the past or will in the future. I did say I had voted for Bill Clinton actually, which I did.

Many people assume I voted for Trump because I’m in a Red state and often try to explain why the people around here voted for him, because I feel that in order to foment positive change you must know why they feel like they do. This site isn’t as intellectual as it used to be, so be wary about believing those who ‘know everything.’ They often do not have a clue, which is why I have the moniker I do.)

You’re yawning an awful lot @KNOWITALL. Are you not feeling well, or are you just tired?

I am super tired of people saying, “My one vote isn’t going to make a difference. No one else recycles, why should I?” Each of us are responsible for our own little worlds.

@Dutchess_III haha! Neither doll. If I say the sky is blue, they reply ‘Well Trump sucks’. It’s ridiculous.

Yes, we should all be the change we want to see. Not only am I an elected official but I’m on another committee that ties in to environmental issues and preservation, too. You should see my backyard wildlife too, I use native plants and bushes, it’s marvelous!

My aunt is a radical environmentalist and has taught me well, she’s one of the people who got the styrofoam containers out of use at McDonalds.

But..the sky IS blue and also trump sucks!

Well, I shall be voted onto board for Habitat for Humanity here. I’m looking forward to that. I have ideas popping about.

Yeah, I was just thinking about foam containers today. Lord I hate putting them in the landfill. I finally decided I’m going to just reserve them and when I get enough I’ll throw them in the trash compactor (which is usually full of cans) and mash the shit out of them, and eventually take them out to the lake to burn them. I know the fumes aren’t good, but I don’t know what else to do. I wish there was a way to burn them so the fumes can’t escape.

Tell your auntie good job.

@Dutchess_III haha!

Oh good, that’s a good organization from what I’ve heard. Good luck I hope you love it~

Yes, I try just not to buy any plastics or styrofoam…although we re-use our egg cartons forever with the locals, so I don’t feel as bad.

My aunt is pretty awesome, she reminds me a lot of some people here in many ways. We fight a lot but I admire her for sticking to her own moral compass. She won’t buy any aerosol cans, doesn’t use store bought deodorant or shampoo’s, etc… We grew up composting and burning trash. Her and her husband are both around 70 yrs old and neither are on any medications at all, so living right is working for them. Pretty neat!