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seawulf575's avatar

Are the Dems taking a contradictory stance based on people involved?

Asked by seawulf575 (17084points) October 1st, 2018

The Minnesota Democrats investigating the accusations against Keith Ellison just concluded that the accusers claims are unsubtantiated because “An allegation standing alone is not necessarily sufficient to conclude that conduct occurred, particularly where the accusing party declines to produce supporting evidence that she herself asserts exists,” . Is this exactly the opposite stance the Dems have with Kavanaugh?

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18 Answers

kritiper's avatar

No, I think the Dems are doing to the Republicans what the Republicans did to the Dems when Obama made his choice for the Supreme Court. (Turn around IS fair play!)

seawulf575's avatar

^How is disbelieving one woman accuser (when it is against a Dem) and swearing by another (when it is against a Repub) the same thing as not considering Garland? Please help me connect those dots?

kritiper's avatar

You asked: “Is this exactly the opposite stance the Dems have with Kavanaugh?”

Demosthenes's avatar

Well, slightly different because this woman is refusing to provide evidence. If Blasey-Ford had refused to testify or provide any corroboration, that would’ve been a closer parallel. It can’t just be “this happened to me, but I’m not going to talk about it or provide any evidence”. Well then too bad. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

seawulf575's avatar

@Demosthenes Except Ford didn’t give any corroboration. And Monahan wasn’t asked to testify. In the end (and this goes to you too, @kritiper) you have two women accusing someone and neither provided any proof at all. The Dems treat Monahan the way I think all these cases ought to be handled…sorry but there is no evidence…case closed. But with Blasey-Ford, they act like she has to be believed despite the fact she offered no evidence. Citing “witnesses” that don’t corroborate your story isn’t corroboration. But they believe that just her accusation should be enough to launch an FBI investigation. I still don’t understand the difference.

LostInParadise's avatar

In the Kavanaugh case, it is not just the Democrats. Flake, Murkowski and Colliins, combined with the Democrats, have enough collective voting power to keep Kavanaugh from being confirmed, and it is because of them that the FBI is examining the case further. They felt that there was enough merit in Ford’s case to look further into it.

rojo's avatar

Probably, they learned well from the Republicans. Not well enough IMO.

seawulf575's avatar

@LostInParadise I think if you dig to the next level you will find that Flake, Murkowski and Collins are on shaky grounds with their jobs. They want to give lip service to the left so they stand a better chance of re-election. No big mystery there.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

We will see @seawulf575.
I live in North Carolina and know of several long time Republicans that are considering changing to Democrat including two that are talking about running for office as a Democratic ! Several others have already changed to unaffiliated! They are conservatives and one is over 80 years old, he is extremely tired of lies and Republicans (including Tea Party members) fighting and wasting money (NC Republicans have caused million of expenses for legal fees, gerrymandering and other Republican agendas that they keep losing in court,

LostInParadise's avatar

@seawulf575 , Jeff Flake has announced his retirement. I have not heard about any re=election problems for Murkowski or Collins.

LostInParadise's avatar

Many people feel that Kavanaugh’s behavior at the hearing calls into question whether he has the appropriate temperament to be on the Supreme Court. He blamed Democrats for the charges against him, singling out the Clintons, and answered questions with questions. Link

seawulf575's avatar

@LostInParadise Of course he did. The Dems ARE creating the scandal against him. It is no big secret. The way Feinstein handled things is proof enough that they are playing games and trying to ruin his life in the process. He has every right to be outraged. If I set up a smear on you and your family started getting death threats because of it, wouldn’t you be outraged? Of course you would. And if I did it with only accusations for which there is not one stitch of evidence you would be well within your rights as a human being to be angry.

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie we will see. The country knows that the Dems are playing silly games, that they manufactured this entire thing. And already there is evidence coming out that Blasey Ford lied her ass off. So when this spirals into nothing but a political scandal against the Dems, you can count on #WalkAway kicking in. Big time.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@seawulf575

The President is playing silly games YES – - No – - YES – - No.

LostInParadise's avatar

@seawulf575 , Ford had every reason to be agitated. She has been getting death threats. But she did not lash out the way Kavanaugh did. You can bet that if she had, it would have been held against her due to the double standard of how men and women are treated.

Unlike Ford, Kavanaugh is being considered for appointment to the Supreme Court. His attacks on the Democrats, singling out the Clintons, were unjustified, as were the questions tossed back to the questioners. This would be unacceptable behavior for anyone, and most especially for a nominee to the Supreme Court.

seawulf575's avatar

@LostInParadise And Ford, unlike Kavanaugh, is part of the smear, not the target of it. If she were accused unjustly of horrible things and those accusations put her family in danger, you can bet she would be outraged as well.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

And Trump’s speech writers wrote the harangue for Kavanaugh.

rojo's avatar

Let’s play who said that:

Quote 1: “The president’s actions are having a profound impact, of course, upon our society. His misdeeds have caused many to mistrust elected officials. Cynicism is swelling among the grassroots. His breach of trust has eroded the public’s faith in the office of the presidency. The president’s wrongdoing has painted all of us in Washington with a very broad brush….

Who said that? Any guesses? Perhaps this will help, another quote from the same person:

Quote 2 ”....there is the issue of the poor example the president’s actions serve for the nation, especially for our youth. Is it now Ok to lie because the president does it? The American people have a right to expect their president to be completely truthful…”

How about this one:

Quote 3: “I am completely and utterly perplexed by those who argue that perjury and obstruction of justice are not high crimes and misdemeanors.”

Or

Quote 4: ””....committing crimes of moral turpitude such as perjury and obstruction of justice go to the heart of qualification for public office. These offenses were committed by the chief executive of our country, the individual who swore to faithfully execute the laws of the United States.”

How about it folks? Any clue as to the three people these four quotes can be attributed to? Hint: the question is about contradictory stances.

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