Does anybody have any thoughts about the synagogue shooting in Pittsburg?

The president was railing against “globalists” days ago. That is anti-Semitic rhetoric stemming from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and before, from the Nazis, and from far right militias and white supremacists today.

It isn’t subtle, it isn’t deniable, it isn’t debatable.

Out loud anti-Semitism hasn’t been this fashionable for American conservatives since the 1930s.

It was merely a matter of time until some synagogue somewhere joined the list of mass shootings. And the unavoidable numbing has already set in as these incidents grow ever more commonplace. Girl Scout club
house, Knights of Columbus barbecue, there will always be some lunatic ready to dip into our bulging machine gun grab bag for that march into history.

Of course, about 40% of Trump’s family is Jewish …

So you’re right it isn’t debatable

Yeah.. Trump cares about his family.

I would tend to denote that Trump would fit the definition of a Zionist, I mean, his relationship with Israel is what would be defined as Zionist. Its hard to be a Zionist and anti-Jewish or Anti-Israeli at the same time.

To make a charge of antisemitism against Trump—kind of like trying to convince people that the Autoharp is a Mexican instrument. You might be able to establish it as a fact in some people’s minds, but it remains demonstrably false.

My thoughts are that this is another antisemitic act of the many that have happened in my lifetime.

I will performing at a menorah lighting ceremony for Chanukah in one of our turn squares where I live. I always have fleeting thoughts of nutty homicidal men attacking us (Jews) whenever I’m in a synagogue or Jewish event. I’m just doing my best to ignore my negative thoughts, which are harder to ignore with this recent shooting.

I do think Trump helps to encourage these hateful lunatics. If his intention is to not encourage them then he needs to take a real look at what he says and does.

I hope the news media covers the shooter being convicted of his crime. Does PA have the heath penalty? I consider it the responsibility of our government (politicians) and our press to demonstrate that our government completely disapproves of these hateful acts. Any person who feels encouraged by Trump needs to know that in actuality America prosecutes these acts.

@Yellowdog I’m not saying Trump is antisemitic, but I think people can be Zionists and antisemitic. Plenty of Christians want the Jews to return to Israel to fulfill the prophecy and you don’t need to like the Jewish people to support Israel. I’m pretty sure we (the Jews) still wind up not able to get into heaven even if we bring on the second coming of the Lord. I might be wrong about that. Are the Christians letting us into heaven or not?

@JLeslie Most christians could never condone murder, let alone of innocents, or Gods chosen people, the Jews. One crackpot stripper with questionable ‘friends’ does not reflect the christian right or Trumps views, which have been pro Isreal. I’m sorry it happened.

There are many reasons to be pro-Israel. Being pro-Israel does not necessarily mean one is a friend of the Jewish people.

@KNOWITALL I wasn’t trying to imply that Christians in general are antisemitic, I don’t think that at all. I was only saying being a Zionist doesn’t mean someone can’t be antisemitic.

The last 30 years I have often said this is one of the safest times for Jews, because the Christians are obsessed with Israel as a political issue, and in turn have a “favorable” opinion of Jewish people. I use safe as a relative term. The supremicists are on the fringe, I know that. The problem is they can create a tremendous amount of harm, and they are feeding off of some of what is being said by our president and other politicians.

When Obama was elected, it gave me a feeling that we had turned a corner and that various religious and ethnic hatreds were in decline. The election of Trump has made me feel that I was mistaken. The Anti-Defamation League has reported a marked increase in threats and property damage to Jews since Trump’s election. Something is very wrong. Trump is both symptom and instigator.

Another religious zealot!

First he came for the Mexicans, and we did not speak out
Then he came for the Muslims, and we did not speak out
Then he came for Jews…

I’m speaking out now.

@LostInParadise Obama was no friend of Israel or the Jews. He himself I would not describe as antisemitist but he had many antisemites in his political circle. Ironically, many American Jews supported Obama faithfully up to his final half year in office.

Trump has always had Jews in his inner circle as far as businesses and political relations and family ties. He used to be a liberal himself.

To All: I remember Jews being discussed in conservative Christian circles since about 1980 and I have always referred to Jews as God’s chosen people. Christ’s people. The true denizens of the Holy Land. This stuff about being pro-Israel to help some prophecy is B.S.
Christians do not believe we help God with the fulfilling of prophecy. If that were so, we would be out there supporting the rise of the Antichrist and really dark times when believers could not buy or sell without accepting “the mark” of the beast.

The eternal fate of the Jews has been a concern for the ultra-conservative types, and there have always been quasi-Christian cults (like “the Identity Christians”) who believe God’s promises to Israel no longer apply. But no one is out there trying to help God bring about Israel for the sake of tribulations ahead.

Not really understanding the link to Trump here. Trump is arguably the most pro-Israel president we’ve had in a while, so of course an anti-Semite who believes in Zionist conspiracies will be anti-Trump (as this guy was). Yes, I know, the rhetoric, the rhetoric, but that’s a scapegoat, really. That doesn’t explain anti-Semitism and its long history in the West. And as I’ve said many times before, Trump is a symptom, not a cause.

As I said in the previous thread, anti-Semitism exists on both the extreme Left and Right. On the left, you’ll find it in disdain for Jews and their money as well as their treatment of Arabs. On the Right you’ll find it in disdain for Jews and their influence in politics and popular culture, and extremist Christian hatred of Jews as Christ-killers. Anti-Semitism doesn’t have a political side.

But yes, I’m very disappointed that this could happen here in 2018, but not surprised.

@Demosthenes Agreed, racism is bipartisan BUT many Democrats believe Trump has empowered the racists to be violent (see other threads.)

Apparently it’s being assumed that this is all Trumps fault as well.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/

@Demosthenes: “As I said in the previous thread, anti-Semitism exists on both the extreme Left and Right. On the left, you’ll find it in disdain for Jews and their money as well as their treatment of Arabs.”

both sides-ism alert

Criticism of the state of Israel is not antisemitism. And what is this “disdain for Jews and their money”, and how does this connect to the “left”?

I agree it’s not, but when I’ve come across actual anti-Semites and the reasons they give, while more of them have been right-wing, occasionally I’ve come across some who identify as left-wing and cite Israel and Palestinians, Jews at 1%-ers, etc. as reasons for their dislike of Jews. So yes, anecdotal. But my experience is that anti-Semitism isn’t just something you find among conservative Christians.

@Demosthenes: “So yes, anecdotal.”

Fair enough. I thought you were making a larger claim.

@Demosthenes I also know a few who rabidly vote Dem who are very anti-Semite, way more than anyone on the Rep side that I know.

Check out this criminal, who tried to take out a Jewish community here in Missouri a few years ago. Just understand, this kind of crazy does not and should not represent any party, any religion, or anything other than straight up ‘nut jobs’.

During his time as leader of the WPP, he unsuccessfully sought the Democratic Party’s nomination for Governor of North Carolina in 1984, and the Republican Party’s nomination for a seat in the North Carolina Senate in 1986.[18]

In 2006, Miller ran as an independent write-in candidate against Rep. Roy Blunt, in the 7th Congressional District of Missouri.[29]

5,000 copies of a typewritten letter titled “Declaration of War” (dated April 6, 1987, and signed by Miller) were mailed,[19] which began: “In the name of our Aryan God, thru His beloved Son, I Glenn Miller now this 6th day of April, 1987 do hereby declare total war. I ask for no quarter. I will give none. I declare war against Niggers, Jews, Queers, assorted Mongrels, White Race traitors, and despicable informants”. It threatened the life of Morris Dees and established a point system for the assassination of Dees and a host of federal officials. The letter proclaimed, “Let the blood of our enemies flood the streets, rivers, and fields of the nation, in Holy vengeance and justice… The Jews are our main and most formidable enemies, brothers and sisters. They are truly the children of Satan, as Christ tells us in St. John 8:44… we promise death to those who attack us or who attempt to place us in ZOG’s dungeons.”[20] Miller was charged in a warrant with violating the conditions of his bond and was sought as a fugitive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frazier_Glenn_Miller_Jr.

There are plenty of people who are anti-Semitic but pro-Israel. Steve Bannon and Breitbart news is a good example.

Bannon and Breitbard hate Muslims more, so enemy of Muslims is more or less their friend (until they come into our country).

trump caused this killing. Who gives a fuck if he’s pro-Israel or anti-Israel or his whole family is Jewish-?

As turd president he is responsible for his own fucked up rhetoric. And only idiots and assholes would think his rhetoric isn’t fucked up.

The evil that he is, he knows this is his fault hence the spinning and the blaming of the media.

And he is not done yet. And will cause more killings. Doubling down saying he could tone it up and not even calling real ex-Presidents before him whose lives were in danger and tweeting about sports same day of the killings.

What the fuck is he telling his psycho voters? That those killings DON’T matter!

If the media lies, and is spewing political propaganda in the wake of a tragedy, a massacre, a bomb threat,you need to face the truth.

I just saw a headline in the New York Times that said: ‘There Is Still So Much Evil’: Growing Anti-Semitism Stuns American Jews.

This headline startled me. Why does it say “stuns American Jews”? Why doesn’t it just say “stuns Americans”? It certainly stuns me, and I’m not Jewish. Isn’t the implication—limiting that response to American Jews—a subtle example of the same kind of divisive thought?

I have Jewish friends who are thinking about leaving the country. They say “I can hear the jackboots coming. I thought we were safe here.” This was more than a month ago, well before the slaughter in Pittsburgh. We are looking at a tragedy that is much greater than a single assault.

I believe it is going to take this country more than a century to assess the damage of the present political moment, never mind to heal. None of us will live to see it. My modest hope for myself right now is just to outlive the Trump presidency.

I don’t think antisemitism is on the rise so much as an intolerance of other people in general. Mexicans, Democrats, Muslims, Guatemalans, Jews, people that live in the rest of the world. All are suspect. At Trump’s never-ending “rallies” you cannot fail to notice the ungodly energy flowing from Trump to his supporters and then from his supporters back to Trump again. It is a kind of feedback loop of raw emotion that grows more extreme by the day, criticising and vilifying anyone or any group that isn’t a part of it. Calm and reason and live and let live cannot flourish in this toxic atmosphere.

Another aspect is the Jewish target was an immigrant resettlement center. The shooter was enraged about immigrants, at a time the president and right winger media are stirring up hysteria over Latin American immigrants.

Yet the shooter, Robert Bowers, was anti-Trump. He hated Trump for his support of Israel and because of Jews in his immediate family.

It is funny how Trump is somehow blamed for a massacre by someone who seriously hates Trump.

It is funny how when Trump and the White House responds to horrific killing in a normal way, the media blames Trump for the massacre or the chaos that caused it. All the while, the Left is openly inciting violence and unrest and harassment against republicans and conservatives in public places.

@Yellowdog: “All the while, the Left is openly inciting violence and unrest and harassment against republicans and conservatives in public places.”

Aaah, yes. The disruption of Republican lawmakers’ meals is something that should be discussed in a thread about 11 regular people being murdered for being Jewish.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

I am wondering if Trump can be sued for wrongful death for encouraging nuts to violence.

@Jeruba Thank you for being as perplexed as I am. I don’t see why any Jews are surprised that something so awful could happen. I do understand why the average person who is not a minority might be les in tune with some of the attacks and attempted attacks that have happened over the years.

In fact, I think most Jewish people are using the word shocked, which is different than surprised. Being in a “state of shock” or stunned shouldn’t be interpreted as surprised.

I think it’s fucking awful. White supremacists are most often antisemitic, and I don’t think there’s any question that white supremacism is on the rise. And that can definitely be laid at Trump’s feet. Bigots did come out of the woodwork during Obama’s presidency, but Trump has egged them on at every turn.

There was a woman who survived the Holocaust who was murdered in Pittsburg For being Jewish.

@Caravanfan That actually turned out to be false (I believed it, too). Snopes

@augustlan Thanks. Saw the post on FB. I’m glad you checked it. Go ahead and mod my answer off if you still can. I requested it to be modded.

I love how it is all Trump and the white supremacists. Why has no one mentioned Louis Farrakhan? He makes angry hate filled speeches calling directly for the elimination of the Jews. What, because he’s black and favored by the Dems, we aren’t allowed to call out his hatred?

@seawulf575 Farrakhan doesn’t get a pass because he is black. His racist remarks have been widely condemned. He is now a fringe figure, elderly and in poor health but imagine if he had been elected president!

@seawulf575 is right. Farrakhan gets as much daily airtime as the president of the United States. And we all know that the Nation of Islam leader’s words are what motivates white nationalists.

Fuck, man. The is no way that you believe a word that you type. Is there? How can you live like this?

Honestly, I think we are seeing the negative side effects of the free exchange of information we have now. People who are prone to hate issues will seek out what they want to hear, what makes them feel the rush when their hate is fueled and they will find it. One person with sick ideas can spread them unfiltered over the world with a few keystrokes now. Hate-addicted people soak it up too. It’s not surprising to see those who are unstable acting on those ideas more often now. It’s not just anti-semitism it’s hate in general being given new life by our system of information sharing. It does not help that the media makes them martyrs to others who think the same either.

Attorneys for Kansan convicted for plannig massacre of immigrants plead for lesser sentence because Trump inspired him.

@notnotnotnot if that is your standard, then what exactly were the words that Trump used to enflame someone to shoot up a synagogue in an effort to exterminate Jews? Fuck Man, there is no way that you believe a word that you type, is there? How can you live like this…in a morass of hatred all the time?

@RedDeerGuy1 Can you give an example of “encouraging nuts to violence”?

The Pittsburgh shooter was vehemently anti-Trump..
I’ve never heard Republicans inciting violence. There are black Muslim groups advocating the annihilation of Jews, and I’m sure there are right wingers as well, as on Stormfront. But it isn’t coming from Trump supporters, the Tea Party, etc etc.

I’ve never heard Republicans inciting violence.

Donald Trump, on camera, at campaign rallies.

“You know, part of the problem, and part of the reason it takes so long, is nobody wants to hurt each other anymore, right? And they’re being politically correct the way they take them out, so it takes a little bit longer. And honestly, protesters, they realize it. They realize that there are no consequences to protesting anymore. There used to be consequences, there are none anymore.”

“The audience hit back. That’s what we need a little bit more of”
Trump said this at a press conference in Palm Beach, Florida on 11 March 2016. He was referring to the Las Vegas incident weeks earlier, after which he mused that he would like to have punched a protester in the face.

“If you do (hurt him), I’ll defend you in court, don’t worry about it”

“I’ll beat the crap out of you”

“Knock the crap out of him, would you? I promise you, I will pay your legal fees”

@seawulf575: ”@notnotnotnot if that is your standard, then what exactly were the words that Trump used to enflame someone to shoot up a synagogue in an effort to exterminate Jews? ”

1. I didn’t make any declarations of a standard in my statement.
2. I never claimed that Trump’s statements “enflamed someone to shoot up a synagogue”.

I’m not a liberal and don’t think Trump is the problem. I think Trump is simply the symptom of a larger problem. And related to this discussion, the problem is you. It’s a sick rot of fucking anti-immigrant white nationalist fear and conspiracy theory that is expressed daily by Fox and other Republicans. The conspiracy theories about Soros (“Jews”) involved in flooding the country with immigrants and this whole immigrant caravan thing is mainstream and didn’t start with Trump. Robert Bowers’ actions were rational in the context of right-wing batshit conspiracy theory. You.

So, I don’t agree that Trump caused this. But Trump is a symptom of the same disgusting, immoral, evil rot that resulted in his administration. And he has done nothing but encourage that rot to thrive. You are a sick fuck, and so is your party and your president.

@notnotnotnot Huh. Maybe I misunderstood your rant about ” One person with sick ideas can spread them unfiltered over the world with a few keystrokes now. Hate-addicted people soak it up too. It’s not surprising to see those who are unstable acting on those ideas more often now. It’s not just anti-semitism it’s hate in general being given new life by our system of information sharing.” Who exactly was the “One person with sick ideas”? As much as you have ranted about Trump, I can only assume that was where you were going. Especially since your previous posts have had the same tone. I brought up another “One person” who spouted hate about killing Jews and you tried lambasting me for even thinking such a thing. So, jackass, just who is “the ONE person”? Remember, it can’t be just any ONE person…you already jumped my shit for suggesting such a thing. So please…enlighten us some more. Maybe throw out a few more “fuck“s into your discussion to try shutting down debate. Yeah…that never works with me. Besides, I noticed you still haven’t shown one single syllable of what Trump has said that would have led to this. You continue to spew about how he is a symptom, so that means he has the same sort of feelings. Please…help us all out. Show how smart you are….come up with a single quote. OH! I also notice not a single one of you liberal fool Trump-haters has once mentioned how hard he has come out on this. If this is the sort of thing you support (remember? he has the same sickness) then why come out condemning it? Please…go get some therapy. You need it.

^ @seawulf575 – The quote you attribute to me right here (and the one you apparently were responding to) was from @ARE_you_kidding_me (a self-described center leaning conservative) – not me.

Does not matter which side the hate comes from, both sides have their undesireables who throw enough of it around. The one person can be anyone who will sow little hate seeds, misinformation and bullshit. Yes the left does this too but usually in a tone that does not sound hatefull on the surface even though it is. I am a center leaning conservative for the record. No, I do not support Trump, never have. I do vote for mostly republicans though.