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Pinguidchance's avatar

Why do you think there is not a god or a higher power?

Asked by Pinguidchance (5040points) November 8th, 2018

Atheists and agnostics preferred but others welcome.

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27 Answers

Patty_Melt's avatar

First of all, if there is, then knowing, praying, trying to impress is absolutely useless.
If there is a god, and if the Bible were correct, god made humans out of loneliness. Well, then why ain’t he hangin’ with me? I’m bored, lonely, and good to know.
No god has had interactions with humans that can be proved.
Prayers go unanswered, tragedies abound.
If there is a god, they don’t get involved, so why bother posturing and praying?
I don’t believe a supreme creator would be so cavalier, so callous, so inattentive.
Gods were created from fear, superstition, and a primal need to explain things early humans could not understand.
Stories developed, evolved. Gods became forces for discipline, and ways to put power behind following a set of ideals.
Eventually gods became generals, and the people who won wars had the bestest gods, and could exert control over people with whimpy gods.
People who desired to rule over other people would threaten to sick their gods on them.
People who wanted a share of the power over others would claim to be a god middle man.
Too many gods started popping up, so people narrowed things down to one really bitchen god.
The humans have evolved now to the point of exceeding many of the things only gods could usta do. Bush on fire but does not burn. I have an electric fireplace.
I have seen the moon eat the sun.
Change a stick to a snake?
Copperfield made Lady Liberty disappear.
We can leave Earth, and return, in a cloud of we want.
Revive the dead.
Cure schizophrenia.
Walk on water.
Divide a sea?
How about underwater hotel?
God didn’t want people to build a tower to heaven?
How about sending vehicles beyond our solar system?
I think we pretty much have the god thing in the bag.
If there is one, I extend a challenge to arm wrestle.
Gods have been entertaining for a long time. I can appreciate that.
Lots of people use a god as a teaching tool for harmonious behavior. I can respect that.
However, too many people still think that they have a god and can control him.
If god will jump when some scrappy guy says, “sick em!” Just how impressive is he then? I would tell the scrappy little dude to suck it, so I guess I am more powerful than god. If that is so, then what is the point?
Either there are no gods, or there are no gods worth having.
Kudos, though, to the guys who came up with all those neat stories in the Bible.

ragingloli's avatar

No evidence, and not even any coherent philosophical arguments in favour of the claim.

ucme's avatar

Because they’d have shown up on CNN by now…

josie's avatar

See above
No evidence.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

While I don’t think our universe is likely to be random or chance I have no idea or a single shred of evidence that suggests “god” as most would define it is real. I leave creation possibilities open with a great big question mark.

LostInParadise's avatar

It makes no difference. If I were a believer, apart from performing some ceremonies, I would not live my life any differently. Religious beliefs are just unnecessary intellectual baggage, serving no useful purpose;.

kritiper's avatar

No clear scientific evidence.

cookieman's avatar

Yup. No clear, measuarable, observable, repeatable evidence. That being said, I do find some religious rituals and certain physical churches relaxing and interesting – separate from their dogma.

tinyfaery's avatar

No evidence and all religion is man made. Humans created gods.

Dutchess_III's avatar

No evidence. In fact, there are clear contradictions in life of what the Bible tells us will happen to us if only we believe. Believers are no more immune to abuse and horrifying destruction than non believers, though they should be.
Believers should all have a really great life and nonbelievers should all live in squalor and poverty. That’s not how it works in real life though.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I think the thing that tipped me over was when, during some catastrophy, like a major flood, one small child is some how spared that agonies of dying. The Christians grab on to that singing the praises of the Lord.
But they conveniently ignore the 500 other small children who died lingering deaths in the same flood.
They want to give God all the credit, but shield him from all the blame.
That is just one of the many, many questions I had that no one could answer…until, thanks to Rarebear and long discussions, I realized there was only one answer that actually answered every singe question.

Demosthenes's avatar

Well, what pushed me into agnosticism was mainly the exclusivity of religions: the concept that one religion is correct and if you don’t follow the correct one, you’re fucked. I just categorically rejected that idea, which made my beliefs incompatible with most religions (though not all; I don’t mean to suggest every religion believes that), and I ultimately came to the conclusion that we can’t know if there is an all-powerful deity or not. I don’t find arguments about the physical world convincing because if there is a deity, it exists in a metaphysical world apart from the physical, and we can’t know of its existence through empiricism or reason. Both atheists and theists seem too dogmatic for me, set in their ways and constantly out to prove the other wrong, though I prefer the idea of there being some kind of creator. That doesn’t mean I’d claim to know what that creator thinks or wants.

Dutchess_III's avatar

That was a very thoughtful answer @Demosthenes. I am glad you don’t feel like you’re going to be punished for your thoughts. I think that’s what keeps many Christian’s hanging on…the fear of something horrible happening if they don’t worship God. IMO, that’s a terrible way to run a business.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_III That is 100% inaccurate for me as well as many other theists.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Also, if a dog or a cat or a worm or a chimpanzee or Koko(gorilla) or any other primate doesn’t have a soul, and there is no heaven for them, why would we human primates have all of that?

Demosthenes's avatar

@KNOWITALL Sure, I don’t doubt that it is—but not for some. I’ve come across many who have a smug sense of satisfaction that people who don’t believe as they do will be eternally punished. And frankly that attitude only pushes me further away from their religion. It’s that kind of thing that has helped shape my beliefs.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Demosthenes Pascal’s Wager, I get it, I just vehemently disagree that any ‘true’ Christian would find any humor or glee in a person’s choice not to believe. Creepy, sorry that happens, it’s not right.

SergeantQueen's avatar

I am a person who needs proof beyond a book and I am very bad at just having faith in things without evidence or reason to put my faith in that thing
I have a hard time trusting people without knowing who they are/ what they are capable of.

(I am bad at explaining why so if it doesn’t make sense let me know)

MrGrimm888's avatar

Another vote here for no evidence. None at all….

Soubresaut's avatar

Okay, this will probably be a little long, and a little… I don’t know, a little removed from everyday experience? But here goes:

The biggest reason I don’t believe there is a higher power that created the universe, or created us, is because the creation of the creator isn’t explained. In our universe, things build from simple to complex. If you start with a creator, then you start with complexity—they are a complex, conscious being with goals, intentions, and the ability to shape the material universe in ways that take tremendous energy. Where did they come from? Did they have a creator, too? Did their creator have a creator? If we need something before something in order to create something, if we need consciousness before consciousness in order to create consciousness, then how can there ever be an us? If, on the other hand, there is a mechanism for something to emerge for the first time, and for consciousness to emerge for the first time, why do we need the intermediary of a higher power/god to explain our existence? Why can’t the mechanism itself be the explanation?

There’s a fascinating theory/explanation for how the universe began from nothing. I’m sure I’ll butcher the explanation, but my layperson’s understanding is: During the Big Bang we get somethings from nothing when nothingness “splits” into particle-antiparticle pairs. Pairs pop into existence together, and when a set of paired particles collide, they annihilate each other, returning to nothing. This is a simple, consistent interaction (and from what I understand, has been replicated by scientists in labs). But there is a slight asymmetry, a slight inconsistency, in this process: a very small number of the antiparticles pop out of existence on their own, leaving their particle counterparts behind. From this glitch we get the matter that makes up our universe—the particles that were left behind. (From what I understand, this asymmetry has also be observed). Isn’t that just a beautifully absurd concept?

And from the left-behind particles we gradually get everything we know today. A simple thing runs into another simple thing, they interact in some simple way. Take enough simple things, let them interact enough times, and patterns may start to emerge—it doesn’t even need to be about hard-and-fast rules, just that certain ways of interacting may be more likely or more common (or, as with the asymmetry in the beginning, more consequential) and as a result, on aggregate, they are the norm. There is no plan, no predetermined rules, no inevitable ending point (and sometimes the errors and accidents are the driving factors of change, like how copying errors in genetics gives rise to the incredible biodiversity of life on Earth). Interactions simply happen. As they do, changes accumulate, complexity increases—incrementally, but look where it gets us after 13.8 billion years! It’s amazing. It’s spectacular.

This is how, for example, you get all the elements of our periodic table from hydrogen alone—hydrogen atoms gravitate toward each other, each attracting and being attracted by the others. The more hydrogen atoms there are closer together, the stronger the collective gravity. At some point, given enough atoms, and enough time for them to coalesce, the collective force becomes so great that the hydrogen atoms themselves start to break and reform into new things. These roiling masses of hydrogen are the forges for all the other elements in the universe. We call them stars. (Once again, I am very much a layperson—I’m sure that’s very far from technically accurate, but I think it’s the gist). How remarkable what can happen when a simple interaction—like atoms coalescing—continues for eons. And how remarkable that we, here and now, can study these patterns, describe them, and even predict them!

In one of the related questions, someone mentioned being awed by blue flowers quietly being blue flowers somewhere. I am also constantly awed by life, but not because I think there was a god behind it. I am simply awed by the existence of the flower. Or sometimes it’s a quiet morning when I see a spider in the corner, or my dog rests his head on my lap, or a squirrel frets away in the backyard, or for a moment I really notice my hand and think about the billions of years and countless generations of life before me that led to all of this. I am awed by the wonder and beauty of our remarkable, bizarre planet in our remarkable, absurd universe. I am awed by what can happen with a tiny asymmetry, and time. (And on the flip side, pain and destruction and injustice and the like make much more sense in a universe that came to existence indifferent and unaware, than in one that was carefully shaped by all-powerful hands… And even just the odd things about life make more sense, too. Life is, fundamentally, truly odd.) When I try to fit the idea of a higher power/god into this story, it always feels like I’m trying to wedge something into a story that works just fine without it, and doesn’t need it. If the universe doesn’t need it, then I don’t, either.

I want to note that I don’t begrudge or judge others for believing in a higher power, and I don’t think that belief in a higher power has to be at odds scientific inquiry, or threatened by it, or threatened by the idea of challenge and change.

On a related note, this comic: https://www.xkcd.com/505/

Patty_Melt's avatar

Well, I’m out of breath.
What a read!
Impressive.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@Soubresaut There are some deeply weird things about our universe though that can lead to some conclusions other than a spring from nothingness. Seeing these experiments shows me that the universe is far stranger than we can really understand. The key takeaway is not consciousness like some think it’s actually just the information being recorded or resolved. WTH, why would the universe operate this way? I don’t think the universe and what we have found that makes it up is what we think it is.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I printed this off to share with my students when they ask “Where did we come from?”
Fascinating. Every single element in the universe came from 4 types of stars, each dying in different ways. Every. Single. Element. This includes every element that makes up our bodies, and everything we see around us. And there are only 118 of them.
We are made of star dust.

LostInParadise's avatar

Nice chart. So many elements that are formed by stars that are falling apart.

Dutchess_III's avatar

LOL! Right? :D :D :D.

Soubresaut's avatar

@Patty_Melt well thanks for reading! I have a terrible habit of saying way too little in way too many words.

@ARE_you_kidding_me—thanks for the links! Those are so cool. I had heard of the first experiment, though it had kind of fallen into a cobwebby corner of my mind, so it was a lot of fun to remember it! And the second one was totally new to me. I love how strange (at least from our perspective) the universe is at those tiny scales… After I watched the second video, YouTube recommended this one to me, and it seems to talk about the experiments in terms of information, like you mentioned, rather than consciousness. Thought I’d share it.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

Cut and paste joke
“To Computer: Is there a God?” joke

Scientists were preparing an experiment to ask the ultimate question.
They had worked for months gathering one each of every computer that was built. Finally the big day was at hand. All the computers were linked together. They asked the question, “IS THERE A GOD?”
Suddenly there was a loud crash, and in a brilliant explosion of silicon and plastic the computers fused into what appeared to the scientists to be one large computer in place of the many smaller ones.
One of the scientists raced to the printer as it finally output its answer. “There is now”, read the printout.

source: http://www.jokebuddha.com/joke/To_Computer_Is_there_a_God_1#ixzz5hIFYzvCh

If not before but in the future gods would evolve into Gods.

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