Do we have the moral right to lie?

If a life hangs in the balancebecause of some stupid law, then yes you have the right to lie IMO.
Most people have given up real privacy when things like FB,Twitter, snap chat, and so on became so addictive.

Well I agree of course. But my question is, should that computer evidence be allowed in court? Is it a violation of my right to lie?

Well, it would be unconstitutional to be forced into providing evidence without a warrant. And you cannot be compellled to testify against one self.

But you are asking about morals in a situation that is often immoral.

I’m not sure of your example and the specific issues it raises, but I think that broader answer is that we absolutely have the moral right and the moral option to lie. And that, by necessity, is a situational choice based on the factors at the time.

And that’s how it is today. Your spouse asks “Honey do I look fat in this dress?”. Whether she does look fat or not, the answer MUST be “no of course not” whether that is true or not. You are under no moral obligation to always tell the truth regardless of the cost.

The computer in your example is clever but irrelevant. Sort of a McGuffin.

You’re right @zenvelo…let’s change that to: Do we have a constituitional right to lie?

I say no. The moral, and legal under oath, obligation is to be honest. If theres no honesty theres no real communication. If you lie for someone you compromise your personal integrity.

What if a young girl came to your door @KNOWITALL, begging and screaming for help, and you let her in. She screams that a man is after her can you help? You put her in a closet to hide her.
Then the man comes to the door, wants to know if you’ve seen her.
What do you say?

This scenerio was presented by a professor my first semester of college. Stopped me cold. Before that I would have said that lying is always wrong.

That speaks to the fluid nature of our man made “morality,” not to our man made Constitutional rights.

Good points @elbanditoroso. I agree with you.

Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy.
There are two kinds of people I can’t tolerate: One is a liar and one is a thief.
If you find it acceptable to lie, then you are one of the two worst kinds of human being.
You are SCUM!

For the most part that is true @kritiper but look at @Dutchess_lll scenerio would you simply say to the freak looking for the screaming kid ,oh yes sir she is in the hall closet hiding from you.
It would depend on the circumstance to keep a person safe until the authorities arrive of course it’s ok to lie, you want to take on the freak looking for the girl better he just keep looking and get the cops involved.

@SQUEEKY2 Some things are better left unsaid, if that would work.

It seems to me that the technology is irrelevant to the question as is risk of getting caught. For my money, the state should not be in the business of killing people. The immorality of state sanctioned executions exceeds that of any lie employed in preventing them.

@Dutchess I dont have to lie because I’d call 911 and defend my home and everyone in it, which is my right. But I see your point, you mean white lies, for good intent and hurting no one.

@KNOWITALL Some half beaten freaked out teen ager shows up on your door screaming “He is going to kill me” you let her in a few minutes later a giant of a man is banging on your door and asking you if you have seen this teen ager, and your going to tell him yeah she is here but you can’t come in and the cops have been called type thing??
Why would you risk your safety and everyone else telling this freak yeah she is here, most likely you might say I saw a young women running down the street that way type thing and let him go away till the cops show up. some lies are fine when your safety is on the line.

Of course at times morality compels lying. Like when the Nazis ask if you are hiding any Jres in your attic.

^^ That.

At what point does it become immoral not to lie?

Clearly it matters a great deal to whom you lie as well as why. When it comes to lying to the government, any lie that serves to hamper or impair the Gestapo (for example) is an act of virtue or downright heroic!

And beyond any mandate or requirement of the state, all of us have our own compass. I’m rather stubborn when it come to following my own. For example, my conscience bothers me not one bit for my failure to seek out and report undocumented aliens.

@SQUEEKY haha, ever heard of the Castle law?

As usual, there are exceptions to every rule. I can lie (fib, in my book) and tell you that the sky is green. No harm intended or done. A flat out lie gets people hurt, and that’s bad. If one choose to lie to accomplish a certain goal, then let the chips fall where they may. We all take chances.

I think that, generally speaking, it’s not good to lie. It’s not a question of morality (because “morality” is a made up concept) but it causes people to lose trust in the things you say.

At the moment, I’m somewhere in between Utilitarian and Hugo Grotius on this one.

Utilitarians believed the moral weight of an action depended on the good of the outcome.

Grotius was a Dutch philosopher who believed that a lie isn’t really wrong if the person who is being lied to doesn’t have a right to the truth.

(Though my thinking on this often changes.)

Sounds good to me @raum. It all boils down to, “just try to be good.”

Yes, though I think it’s a slippery slope into lots of grey area. Where the person who is lying may bend this to their advantage.

For instance, Trump could say that the lies he tells are justified because he’s trying to Make America Great Again.

I think you would have to amend both approaches with “as determined by a public jury of virtuous peers”. And even that is problematic.

I can’t say that I trust the masses to determine a universal moral compass anymore.

Well, I think our laws do a pretty good job of defining what our moral compass should be.

I wish I had as much trust in our legal system as you do, Dutch. :/

I think that it works most of the time.