Can a belief system turn otherwise peaceful humans into raging murderers?

Of course. History is replete with examples.

haha, well my religion says I’m supposed to forgive over and over, and turn the other cheek, so no. There are a few things I could go brutal about, but my religion is not one.

Numbers 31

Would you forgive over and over and turn the other cheek if your religion didn’t tell you to @KNOWITALL?

Nope, it’s just an excuse for most of those people.

I would say both.

But I seem to notice that the kind of people who become brutal because of religion are either psychotic or operate in a group. So I would say not religion itself, but a need to belong? If a person who isn’t psychotic adopt a religion alone, without any interaction with other people, would they become violent? Group influence is a hell of a drug sometimes.

So yeah, I agree that religion can be an excuse for horrible things, but for a different reason.

Then there is always the kind of religion people may seek out.

@Mimishu1995 “but a need to belong”

Yep, that’s the other reason and when the two mix…. watch out!

@Dutchess No, and I still find it very challenging. Religion tames me to a degree, Ifully acknowledge that.

Despite disdain for much of what passes as religion, it’s a bit rich to ascribe religion as the prime mover in brutality and murder when the culprit is almost always avarice.

Good point @Pinguidchance. So is religion a convenient vehicle for avarice? Is that really what it’s all about?

“Raging?” As in self righteous? Possibly. But we are all nuts to varying degrees, some just more than others.

@Dutchess_III why do people do crazy things for religion? Because in exchange the God will give them something they’ve longed for. How do they know? Because some other people in the religion told them so. Why do they need religion so much? Because it’s the solution for whatever issue they have.

I notice that the people who you are bashing about aren’t that attached to their religion. They only hop onto the religion bangwagon because they need to get something out of a God. They have some issues that they resort to religion with the hope that a higher power will sort it out for them. Suppose it turns out that the God doesn’t offer what they need, or they find something else with much juicier promise than the current religion, would they still be faithful to their God?

This kind of relationship is strictly an opponunistic one. They are doing it because everyone is doing it. And they do crazy things for God because everyone around them is also doing it. And this is also how cult leaders make recruitment. Just some promise with a God that would come to the rescue and everyone hops right in.

I am sorry if my comments and recent questions have come off like “bashing.”

I believe religion can’t make you do something that was never in you to do. I think most people have the ability to murder. It is part of our survival instinct like any animal. But we all chose what we are willing to kill over. Kill for family. Kill for money or power. Kill for religion. Kill to feel important. It all depends what you tie to your sense of survival. These things don’t make us kill for them. It comes down to what you put first above another person life.
Man will never stop killing so long as ego rules. With the exception of killing to save your own life or that of a love one or a stranger who’s in harms way, most of mankind is cruel and salvage. Few people can separate what is ego and a real need to survive.

I give you an example. A 7 year old girl died at the border after being in custody. She was dehydrated. She went into shock after one day and that is when they discovered she had a fever of 105. Yes it was wrong for her dad to bring her across. And it was wrong for the people who took them in custody not to check and see this girl was ill and give her medical attention until it was too late.
There are people who feel no empathy for this child. Who are glad that there is one less poor child in this world. Why? The child was not a threat to their existence. She was a human life. But in their mind, she posed a threat to them. Religion isn’t behind this hate. Ego, and greed, is behind this hate. Bet you if some of them could’ve shot her legally as she crossed the border, they would have. Hell, they would’ve done it on Christmas day.

If someone is a raging murderer, they have that in them. Religion (or a belief system) is merely used as justification for the actions. There have been some groups that are raised in a belief system that tells them to be violent (look at ISIS). But that is more than just their religion. It is the impact of their families, their cultures, etc that are molding them from birth. We have plenty of raging murderers that had nothing to do with religion.

I think it is hard to categorize “most” people. There are too many factors that go into what makes up a normal person and even then defining normal is difficult.
Personally I think most (but not all, some are just broken) people have a live and let live attitude until circumstances dictate otherwise. That being said (I love that phrase) there are those who are more susceptible to outside influence whether that be religious, political or societal and can be led to violent acts with minimal effort. Now, whether these people are predisposed to join organizations that might influence them or whether the organization makes them what they are is the old chicken or the egg question. But, people have likely ganged together to perpetrate atrocities on others, particularly others they can classify as different, since before recorded history.

George Tiller crossed my mind as I was composing this question. On different occasions his clinic was firebombed, he was shot in both arms and, as you know, he was eventually assassinated, all in the name of Christ. I agree that the people who did those things were mentally defective and if they hadn’t had Jesus as an excuse, they would have found a different excuse.
However, I also knew, personally, at least 4 people (Christians) who would never do those things, but approved of them happening, in the name of Jesus. Those 4 also thought Rush Limbaugh walked on water, and tried to make me feel like I wasn’t a “real” Christian when I said he utterly repulsed me.

@Dutchess_III Dr. Tiller is interesting since he was a Christian, serving as an usher, but still performing late term abortions. His killer (quoted below) freely admitted why he killed Dr. Tiller, so that is no question. He was obviously under conviction from God in his heart, whether that came from God or not, is debatable, since we aren’t privy to his mental health records.

I think you’d have to be extremely dedicated to your particular cause to give up the rest of your life. But we all know soldiers still go to war, Japan had their kamikazi’s (@2800)! who willingly died, the missionary who died trying to get to the tribe recently, monks agreeing to be walled up to die – the list is endless of people willing to die for a cause or religion. Unlike @Mimishu1995, I do not believe it’s as simple as group think for all these people.

“In November 2009, Roeder publicly confessed to the killing, telling the Associated Press that he had shot Tiller because “preborn children’s lives were in imminent danger.”[6][7] Roeder was found guilty of first-degree murder and two counts of aggravated assault on January 29, 2010,[8] and sentenced on April 1, 2010, to life imprisonment without any chance of parole for 50 years.[9]”

T. E. Lawrence, when asked why men go to war, answered “Because the women are watching”.

So the fact that we hate it makes no difference? :(

What turns peaceful humans into raging murderers is the belief that other humans have already become raging murderers.

^^^Hmmm.

When you say “the belief system made me do it” you excuse the evil !!!
But I will bet you don’t argue that one must subscribe to a certain belief system.

See the inconsistency?

The worst thing is you are excusing murder!!

George Tiller.
Jones town.
Crusades.
9 / 11
Waco.