Should Bernie be allowed to run for office again?

Bernie hasn’t been accused of anything.
This seems to implicate campaign workers, but not specific events have been cited.
This question is scandalous, slanderous and hurtful.

I don’t see where Bernie is accused either?

As far as Kavanaugh, I believe he did most or all of what he was accused of, but I never said something 30 years ago should necessarily matter. I can understand why people might say it was so long ago and he was so young it shouldn’t have any bearing, or at minimum they just didn’t care.

Bernie is not angry and defensive from what I can’t tell. Seems like he wants to address it if there is a problem. Kavanaugh flat out lied about some things and was snarky when it was inappropriate.

Trump was/is plagued with accusations and look where he is.

A ridiculous suggestion that you don’t even agree with yourself.

Sanders isn’t being accused of anything, not even “setting a standard” that allowed for sexual violence. He is being asked to make sure that this sort of thing doesn’t happen in any future campaign, and he’s being asked precisely because it is believed by the signees that he would not be okay with sexual violence on the campaign trail. It would seem strange to think that someone should not be allowed to run for office on the grounds that their supporters think they have the power and insight to limit sexual violence.

@flutherother I didn’t agree with the idea of banning Kavanaugh based on mere accusations either. I’m curious to see if those that were so vehement about him not being fit for office would have changed their views.

@seawulf575 OK, but the situations are quite different.

It is not at all clear from the article what is supposed to have happened or whether Sanders knew about it. That is a far cry from the sexual assaults that Trump bragged about and that Kavanaugh was accused of.

My gripe with Kavanaugh is not the accusations, but the most uncivil way he defended himself. I expect more from a member of the Supreme Court. If the questioning he got is considered as a job interview then he failed the test.

@flutherother I don’t see that they are that different. Doing some more research into this story, the workers that are bringing the complaints are not isolated cases. They range from the front line workers to the upper echelon of the campaign. They are at all different locations. So it is something inherent in the atmosphere of the campaign. From top to bottom and side to side there was the same attitude of sexual violence and discrimination. That speaks directly to Bernie’s influence. To claim he didn’t know anything about it is foolishness. The choices I see are that either he accepted and possibly even encouraged that behavior or he is so oblivious he has no business being in public office.

I thought the article mentions it’s in other campaigns too sort, of an industry thing?

Just because there are some complaints of harassment doesn’t mean the person in charge propogated it. Now, that he’s aware he can make steps to change it.

Kavanaugh did harrass young women, and then he lied about it.

My take away is men suck all too often and are unaware of how their actions cause women duress and damage. People in general need to develop some more empathy. Not just men regarding how they treat women, but in many other arenas also.

@seawulf575 There is a difference between sexually assaulting women and not sexually assaulting women. Surely you can accept that. The Sanders letter was not intended to be public and makes no specific allegations. It isn’t even specific to the Sanders campaign as the organizer claims that all political campaigns are potentially dangerous to women. The letter and the response to it simply shows that the Sanders campaign is aware of the issue and is tackling it.

There is nothing in the article that implicates Sanders. The people indicated that this kind of behavior is common in campaigns. They might have chosen to start with Sanders because they felt he would be the most receptive to making changes.

Could you imagine Trump’s campaign listening to such allegations? Trump would no doubt say that if it prevented him from grabbing women’s crotches then he wants no part of it.

I don’t think it is a matter of whether he should be allowed. Everyone is allowed, unless you are a convicted criminal and even then…..
And there is a big difference between being allowed to run and being allowed to hold office.

@flutherother there is indeed a difference between sexually assaulting women and not. According to the article, it indicates that there was sexual violence and discrimination. It doesn’t name names and you don’t have lawsuits, but sexual violence is sexual violence, right? There is no difference just because it is or isn’t reported to the police, right? The letter doesn’t show the Sanders camp was aware of it, or at least wasn’t acknowledging it. What it shows is that the victims had more compassion on the campaign than the campaign had for them. They brought their grievances to the campaign to push the change instead of bringing lawsuits which would have crushed the campaign going forward. But their grievances are not any less important because of their compassion.

@JLeslie I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree about Kavanaugh. I feel he was accused of harassing young women and there was zero evidence that it ever happened. In fact many people came out in support of him…people that knew him well, that grew up with him, that worked with and for him. So you have accusations, no proof, no corroboration, and he denies it. That doesn’t mean he lied. If he didn’t do it and it was a false accusation he would still deny it.
As for Sanders campaign, it wasn’t just harassment, it was sexual violence. And apparently it went from top to bottom of the campaign organization. So as I said, either Sanders was complicit at the least or was entirely oblivious. Either way, would you want him in office?
But I 100% agree with you that people need to develop more empathy. Mama taught me how to treat women with respect, as human beings and not objects. I think it is a lesson every child should learn. Except we need to trade the word People for Women in the lesson.

@LostInParadise As I mentioned, Sanders was apparently not implicated in the statements. But it was rampant throughout his organization so he was either complicit or oblivious. Either way he looks bad. As for “starting with Bernie’s campaign”, they didn’t start with it because they felt he would be the most receptive. They started with it because that is the campaign they all worked for. It was occurring, if we are to believe the accusations and in this case, the way they approached it, I feel inclined to believe they are telling the truth. They have nothing to gain by lying about it. And since they signed the letter, it would be too easy to prove or disprove they were outsiders trying a smear attack. The suspect this sort of thing goes on in other campaigns, but there is no proof of that. Not saying it doesn’t, there just isn’t any proof. And thanks to their efforts, it may generate future changes to avoid this sort of thing in the future if it is going on. At least all campaigns will at least look at the possibility.

@seawulf575 There are degrees of sexual violence but I would agree with the authors of the letter that it is never acceptable. I’m sure you will be as pleased as I am that the Sanders campaign is aware of the issue and is now tackling it.

@flutherother As I mentioned in the question I think the accusers are handling this professionally and appropriately. It gives everyone a chance to fix things instead of creating a media circus.

@seawulf575 I don’t remember anyone who grew up with him defending him. Maybe I missed that. I do remember people saying there was no evidence he raped anyone, I have always agreed with that and I don’t remember anyone accusing him of rape, except one outlier who I didn’t even know about until very recently who recanted from what I understand. Pretty much everyone agreed, eventually even he did, that he was a lush back then, drinking heavily. He was at minimum present when girls were being harmed.

I grew up where he did.

Here is an article that says that changes were already made to Sanders’ senate campaign to address issues that came up during the 2016 presidential campaign. Campaign staff get training in this matter and there is a hotline run by a third party to report misconduct. Seems to me that Sanders and his staff are acting very responsibly.

“Be allowed”? And who does the allowing?

No evidence or accusations of any wrongdoing on Bernie Sanders’ part.

As for Kavanaugh – my opinion was, and is, that his own childish behavior during the confirmation hearings shows him to be tempermentally and emotionally unfit to hold a seat on the bench.

As to this question, and the way you’re choosing to frame it – it’s disingenuous and you damn well know it.

@Darth_Algar As to this question, I’m attempting to see if there are excuses made for Bernie or not. That attitudes of folks vary depending on the side of the political spectrum the person being discussed is associated with. And you are all not letting me down. The Kavanaugh case was just a for-instance. It was a case in which sexual violence was alleged with zero proof. Yet many on these pages wanted him convicted based on allegation. No evidence of wrongdoing, yet guilty until he proves himself innocent. Pretty much the same situation with Bernie. While he may or may not have been one of the perpetrators of sexual violence (we don’t know for sure), it was certainly the attitude of his whole campaign which implies he recognized it or should have recognized it. So accusation with no evidence, yet the lefties on here are working hard to excuse him from any wrongdoing.
You may call the question disingenuous but it really depends on what I am trying to learn from the question. AND, I even gave my opinion of this matter right up front. And it isn’t to burn Bernie. So while you might not like what the question raises in the way of discomfort for you, it certainly wasn’t disingenuous.

“Excuses” for someone who hasn’t done anything? This is exactly what I’m talking about – disingenuous.

@Darth_Algar He has done exactly as much as Kavanaugh did. Yet everyone jumped all over Kavanaugh. Wanted him disbarred because someone accused him of something with zero proof. That is the point of this exercise.

Except that there is no official accusation against Sanders, and even if there were, there is no associated criminal behavior. How many times do we have to tell you?

There is a big difference between being accused of sexually assaulting someone and maybe, and it is just maybe because no official complaint against Sanders has been filed, being accused of being aware of sexually offensive behavior among staff. In the one case, if the accusation holds up, it leads to a prison sentence. In the second case, if the accusation has been made and if it holds, there is no associated crime.

Any questions?

@seawulf575

Your logic here -

Staffers at Company A suggest that a solid fire evacuation plan would be wise to implement.

Since they’re implementing a fire plan then there must be a fire.

Since there must be a fire then Company CEO must know about it.

Since he must know about it he must, therefore, be personally liable for it.

@Darth_Algar Not quite. That is what you would LIKE my logic to be. With your given scenario, MY logic would be:

Staffers at Company A saw a fire set by those in charge.

Those in charge told them they had to keep working and ignore the fire.

Since those in charge set the fire AND told the workers to keep working, the CEO either knows about it or is completely oblivious.

Whether CEO of Company A is in on the fire or is oblivious, he is a big part of the problem for creating an environment where people in his organization set fires and threaten workers.

And one other thing…your last statement…he must know about it and therefore, be personally liable for it…isn’t that the same logic you on the left use about Trump when it comes to his underlings doing things with Russia long before they joined the Trump team? That his team had done something wrong so he must, therefore, be personally liable for it? This goes, again, into the purpose of this question. You want to hang the Repub win one argument and then give a Dem a pass by making that same argument something that just couldn’t be.

Here’s the problem with your response – by the article you yourself linked to there’s no fire. There’s not even an accusation of a fire. Maybe there were some employees smoking, maybe, in an area not designated for smoking. Maybe they were smoking around flammable material even. But there’s no report of an actual fire.

@seawulf575 , You are building a case out of nothing. All we have is that some campaign workers saying that they want to talk with Sanders about sexual misconduct by some other campaign workers in the 2016 presidential campaign.

What we don’t know:
How many people were involved or the nature of their supposed misconduct.
Whether offenders were removed from the campaign.
Whether Sanders was aware of the extent of the misconduct or if he did anything about it.

We do know that Sanders took remedial actions in his Senate campaign, as I pointed out above. For all we know, what the campaign workers want to discuss may be about taking similar measures in the presidential campaign. If anything, this provides reasons why we should vote for Sanders.