Do you believe parents should take precedence over their children?

You don’t have kids, do you? All the logic and reason you argue really doesn’t happen much in messy, emotionally fraught, real life.

^^ No, but I have many friends and family members that have children, some think children are the most important, the others think the reverse, I think the reverse is the one that makes sense. It’s all about sustainability. No children can survive without their parents, and their parents deserve the utmost importance in the family. Just read this article as it’ll open our eyes about this situation.

^ I think what @canidmajor is saying is that you can play this theoretical game of “should” regarding parenting, but that means nothing once you have kids. Nothing. When my first was born, I was immediately hit with the reality that I would do anything for her. I didn’t pull out a paper on the normative ethics of parenting to decide that I would rather be torn apart by wolves than have her suffer. But that is what I felt.

Having been raised by a Mother who believed her children came first, I’ll expand on her beliefs. She said the parents “chose” to have the children where the children had NO say on being put on this earth. She felt that with “choosing ” to bear children came the responsibility to take good care of them. She said it was her job to take good care of her children, so she did her job well!!!

I don’t remember a time where we had no food; but, I do know that IF she ever would have had to choose between herself & her children, her children would have been fed first. The least I could imagine her doing would have been to share the only food left with her children where every one of us ate equally so nobody went hungry!!!

I guess my question would be…what would the single mother you reference do IF she had a dog…it would be fed first & the woman would go hungry…then she’d go to work & hope to be fed that day!!! Children can be fed cheap if you only try. They don’t need to eat at McDonald’s every meal!!!

A parent in the situation described by the OP would share the cscrap of bread, so th athe child might be sustained a bit longer, while the parent could seek out more food.

Parents generally sacrifice in favor of the child, because the child is the future.

It is the responsibility of a parent to feed,cloth,shelter and keep safe their children and if they cannot do this then they should be placed in temporary care until that parent is back on their feet again and or able to successfully protect them.

It is the parent’s responsibility to provide for their kids, physically and mentally, but there is a fine line between caring for the child and spoiling the child.

I would give the food to the kids. I would starve to death if it was needed, to allow my kids enough to eat.

@All. How commendable. I understand your attentiveness to children as it’s reasonable. However, there’s a different way to look at this situation, a way that is worth a consideration, a way of parenting for sustainability without blind love.

@Dutchess_III If you’re starved to death then who would be providing food for your children in the future? That’s what I’m talking about. It’s not a life threatening situation. You have to prioritize yourself first to sustain the lives of others in the long run. I live in a Islamic country and children here are encouraged to practice fasting during Ramadhan so that they’ll get used to it when they reached adulthood. That’s why I say it’s not a life threatening situation, unless your kids have malnutrition issue, therefore your job as the main provider for your family should get the first priority, both to sustain your life and the lives of your children in the long run. I never said to starve children to death, but for them to endure hunger in reasonable time for the sake of the person that make the money to sustain their lives.

If it’s not a life threatening situation then they can have the food. I can sure miss a few meals with no problem. So can they, for that matter. You’re going to have to come up with another, more serious analogy if you’re looking for situations where the parent would put themselves first. Like a plane going into sudden decompression and the parents need to put on their masks first so they don’t pass out in seconds before they can help their kids. But that’s not the same as missing a few days of eating.

^^ That’s a perfect example to show us that parent’s survival is required and should be prioritized to sustain the lives of their children. I think that example would’ve made a great question.

Yes, but my point is, comparing limited food to a plane decompression is comparing apples to grapes. You have to come up with a scenario that is more similar to the plane than about something we are all healthy enough to do without for a few days.

(Without reading the others, and not a parent myself.)

No, the children should ALWAYS come first. When you choose to have a child, they should take precedence as they didn’t ask to be born. Parents SHOULD leave all selfish desires behind and focus on being good parents.

I see so many selfish parents and kids being raised by grandparents, it’s crazy. They can’t put men aside, or women, or alcohol, or drugs, it’s horrible.

Plus adults can rationalize going hungry, children cannot. Always feed babies first.

For Catholics, only 4th grade or older are allowed to participate in religious fasting. In our area anyway.

There are, actually, some valid instances where the parents have to put their survival first in order to help the kids survive. The only thing that really comes to mind, though, is a plane cabin depressurizing, as mentioned above. We’re instructed to put the masks on ourselves before we put them on the kids, and that makes perfect sense.

@Unofficial_Member, this discussion of parenting comes up here from time to time and there is a definite pattern that emerges. The non-parents tend to view it in a clinical way, the parents understand that it is not a logical, mechanical thing, but a visceral, emotional, messy thing. Do revisit this Q if/when you have some children.

@canidmajor That sounds a bit condescending in a world where 2.4 million grandparents are raising their grandchildren. Animals can have babies, breeding doesn’t make you any more smart, or compassionate, or unselfish as a human being.

Well it bugs me when people remodel their home and create an upstairs that is like a luxury hotel suite for the parents and their little children are sleeping downstairs (our neighbors had their baby sleeping downstairs while the parents were in their remodeled private palace upstairs). That always comes off to me as parents putting themselves ahead of their children.

Not that that’s what you were getting at, but yeah. Seems to me that children take precedence, but every case is different. There’s no one right answer that works for every unique hypothetical situation and I do think people react differently to these situations if they actually have kids. To me, non-parents arguing about parenting is like straight people arguing about homosexuality. It’s just a bunch of hot air.

@KNOWITALL – I think you might have missed what @canidmajor was saying (or maybe I have misinterpreted it myself).

From someone who has children, this whole question is nonsensical. To come up with a coherent set of defined actions based on theoretical scenarios makes little sense. Parenting is far more than some college essay on ethics. It’s often very messy, and involves instincts and intuitions that you never thought you had – until the day you become a parent. There’s no value judgment being made here (at least on my part). Rather, my internal understanding of who/what I was in relation to another being radically changed over a 60-second period following my daughter’s birth. I’ve had no other transformative moments that can even compare.

Everyone is unrealistic about children before they have them.

@notnotnotnot I get what you’re saying, if the last sentence was not added, I would completely agree. I just don’t believe ALL parents get that ‘internal understanding’.

Could be religious or cultural difference, too, since he mentions the Muslim connection to fasting.

I have never had children; but I know my gut instinct would be to put them first, unless it was dire circumstances where my survival was key.

Parents have been on both sides of the fence. At one time they were not parents and they had fanciful ideas of how to raise a kid. But then they found themselves on the other side of the fence and it ain’t nothing like what they thought it would be.

@notnotnotnot, yes, exactly!
@KNOWITALL you’re attributing to me motives that I don’t have (“condescending”). I was almost 35 before I became a parent. I had a fish and full life. I also believed that most of the parents I knew weren’t really handling it in the way I would have. I was very surprised when I had a child to discover that it was extremely different from not having a child.

If you’re not a parent, you just don’t know what it’s like. If you’re not a black man, you just don’t know what it’s like. Do you need more examples? There are states of being that one never understands unless one is there.

Absolutely.
You can always make new ones.

@canidmajor Point taken, although it doesn’t take a ‘parent’ to notice glaringly bad parental choices.

Now, what do you mean, you had a fish? Like in a tank, or did auto-correct get ya?

@canidmajor I don’t believe that just because you’re a parent your action toward your children would make a paragon and serve as the only way of parenting. Not all parents would behave the same way, not all of them would think that children should be prioritized in non-hazardous situation, and that (with reasonable excuses) won’t make them bad parents. I don’t think that non-parents can’t have any saying in this matter or our words hold no value when it comes to parenting. I am not trying to compare children to pets but many of us have pets here and have thought of them as our own babies/family members. That alone, produce the reminiscent feeling of being a parent. I love my pets but I will always put myself first as I’m the only who can sustain their lives. You don’t necessarily need to touch the fire to know that it’s hot.

@Demosthenes In the example you provided I can say that the parents deserve to live better, they earned it, their children don’t/haven’t. So long as the kids live in good, safe environment I don’t think it’s an inappropriate situation. Just because mommy sleep on 100 carats gold bed doesn’t mean the kids must also enjoy the same privilege.

@ragingloli Sometimes it’s hard for me to pinpoint if you’re being rational or simply joke around. Surely you jest this time!

@Unofficial_Member
I mean, that is how nature operates.
When resources are scarce, you eat your children and bide your time until there is plenty enough food to breed another batch.

@Unofficial_Member: “I don’t believe that just because you’re a parent your action toward your children would make a paragon and serve as the only way of parenting.”

Ok, this conversation is now a 27-post long thread where people are talking about vastly different topics. In fact, the chasm of misunderstanding is so great among its participants, I’m not sure it can be resolved.

^^ What misunderstanding? Please don’t tell me that just because I’m not a parent I misunderstand the issue at hand. If there’s any, isn’t it better to explain the issue so people might have better understanding?

Well, my answer is, “It depends on the situation.”

@ucme Screw you. haha!

@Unofficial_Member: “What misunderstanding?”

:)

I haven’t read the other answers. If it’s a matter of food, 99% of the time the child should get the food! What parent is going to think straight at work, or doing whatever, knowing their child is hungry? WTH?

Also, physiologically, an adult can go an entire day not eating and not have much problem, assuming they are in reasonable health. A child, especially a baby, can have seriously health consequences in a very short time.

As far as things like treating oneself and taking time for oneself as a parent, I think a nice balance is best, but I’m pretty sure if I was a parent, my overall MO would be sacrificing for my child. I’m not even sure I would call it a sacrifice. I think I would be naturally compelled to put them first, and selfishly I think I would enjoy that they felt safe and secure and happy, even if it took away from my own freedom.

If it’s not a matter of life and death, and just average every day decisions, then I will say that I think differently now than when I was younger, mostly from being around my husband’s family. If I had children now, as an older mom, I think I would take more time to make sure I did things for me than I probably would have as a younger mom. My in-laws do it to too much of an extreme in my opinion, but I think they are not completely wrong. It’s a cultural thing maybe. I’m not sure.

@KNOWITALL Well, it seems I was screwed, although a tad bizarre your related aside remains.

@ucme Maybe, I love ya anyway.

I mean hey, what’s a “screw you” between friends :-}

“Just because I don’t have kids doesn’t mean I don’t know what it’s like to have kids” is such a standard sentiment in these kinds of discussions. People get deeply offended.
The same people who may realize that they don’t have the experience to understand what it’s like to be afflicted with MS, or to appreciate the effort and commitment it takes to summit Everest, get angry when someone points out that they don’t understand what it’s like to be a parent if they don’t have kids.

There’s your “misunderstanding”. It’s been explained already in this thread.

@canidmajor Just pointing out that the OP is describing different sets of parents, and even some parents on the Q talked about helping oneself first. I’m not a parent and I’m fairly freaked out that a parent would leave a child hungry and take the food first for themselves. Both emotionally and for medical reasons I can’t imagine it.

I do agree with you that it’s probably impossible to imagine what it’s really like to be a parent unless you are one, but I think a lot of childless people can imagine it reasonably well. There are plenty who don’t though. It’s mixed. Just like there are crappy parents and good parents.

@JLeslie, read the posts, the OP pulling out the same old stuff.

I’m out, this is becoming circular.

@ucme @JLeslie The side conversation started from one comment that sounded condescending to nonparents. “get a kid and come back”....not cool.

Listen, we can all look at a skinny, dirty dog and know in our hearts we could do a better job. Same with parenting. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know how to treat a little person, although of course I admit I don’t know everything- no one said that in this post.

I’m not sure why some of you are taking this so personally, enough to call me and @Unofficial_Member pathetic? Geez, call out the bad parents instead. I’ve literally had a little girl ASK ME for a bath, when she saw my clean tub and princess bubble bath. I’ve seen babies with no eyelashes from cockroaches eating them off. So off your high horses, not all parents are even close to being good.

We know not all parents are good parents. No one was saying that at all.

@Dutchess_III Then what’s the big deal with a non-parent asking a parenting question, or ethical question?

If you were asking parents parenting questions about discipline,ethics, etc, that’s different. That’s wanting to learn. But that isn’t what you are doing. You can’t state in unyielding terms how parents should behave, “No, the children should ALWAYS come first. When you choose to have a child, they should take precedence as they didn’t ask to be born. Parents SHOULD leave all selfish desires behind and focus on being good parents.”

Generally speaking, that’s a true statement. In reality, there are degrees of that kind of sacrificing. You don’t understand the degrees because you’ve never been there and that’s the point we’re trying to make.

FYI, I think you’d have been a very good parent.

BTW, children always coming first can result in spoiled brats who are unable to empathize with others as adults.

@Dutchess_III That’s all I meant, generally speaking. I just see too many selfish parents and neglected kids.

Oh yes, my uncle and his wife let their only son rule the household, now he is 18 yrs old and a good kid, a bit spoiled, but kind with a big heart. Lucky for them he turned out well. haha

Try looking a little harder for the good parents @KNOWITALL. They can be hard to spot. The bad ones are easy to pick out.

@Dutchess_III Nah, I’m interested in being there for the kids with crap parents, that’s part of what I do in my community. We bought school clothes for a 12 yr old with two meth head parents. We bought Christmas presents and food. We’ve paid water bills, re-homed beds and whatever. The other good people in town and good parents help with recycling toys, clothes, etc…it’s actually really cool.

I mean, when you are out and about it the world, just try harder to notice them. I didn’t mean interacting with them. I think you have kind of a skewed idea of what the average parent is like, due to the fact you spend so much time with abused children.

@Dutchess_III Oh I see what you’re saying. My heart is just pulled to the poor kids, because I’ve been there. I see lots and lots of good ones though, I promise!

Working with kids, even as a teacher, can be heartbreaking. You get these horrible acting children and you know they are simply doing as they were taught at home. It makes me want to bring them to my home and retrain them, show them that the world isn’t always a scary, angry place.