Shouldn’t Christian conservatives who talk endlessly about family values love the new Gillette ad?

I liked the ad, and the ruckus it is raising.

My guess is that some men are reacting negatively to it because it calls into question their persona – some guys have spent their whole lives trying to be macho and manly and tough, and this add says “wait, that’s not necessarily what being a man is”.

So the Neanderthal guys are feeling uncomfortable. Boo Hoo. Who cares?

”The best a man can get”
Bullshit, a butler warm towel shaving you with a cut throat razor is the best this man can get.

I like the ad. In light of the Me Too movement, I think it’s spot on.

Great ad. But I will still shave with Harry’s.

Great ad!

I personally don’t like the ad. It has nothing to do with shaving at all. And I’m getting a little tired of corporate America lecturing me. I view corporate America as being a big part of the problem. And Hollywood as well. Who
created the persona of the macho man? The Man’s Man? I was raised in a conservative family. What I learned growing up on how to be a man was to be honest and caring. To treat others with respect. Bullying was something for children, not men. I grew up treating women with respect. And here’s the kicker…it meant I didn’t get laid a lot. Most younger women didn’t want the nice guy…they didn’t want to be treated with respect. They wanted the bad boy. I knew several women that were in abusive relationships. They would be battered and bruised and would cry on my shoulder, but wouldn’t leave the guy that was beating them and cheating on them. But that didn’t make me want to be like those guys. That’s not how I was raised. And I didn’t raise my kids that way either. I taught my boys to be good men and my daughter to be a strong self-sufficient woman.
I suspect it is people like the OP that don’t really understand what being a conservative is about that are the real problem in this country. It isn’t about being anti-gay, it’s about being honest. That doesn’t mean you will agree with every cause that comes down the line…that is liberalism. It means having standards and sticking to them regardless of what others say.

There are those who do need to get lectured. Any which way possible.

Great ad btw.

@seawulf575: “I view corporate America as being a big part of the problem.”

This isn’t the first time you’ve expressed your distaste for capitalism, comrade. :)

Of course, this is just an ad – and a harmless one. But I have to admit that the reaction it got from many men is pretty amazing. Just look at @seawulf575‘s response above, which dives right into the misogynistic incel and MRM. “I’m a victim.” Wow.

@notnotnotnot disgust for the actions of corporate America is not the same as distaste for capitalism. And while I understand you not liking me characterize liberals such as yourself as I did, I certainly don’t view myself as a victim. Never have and never will. I am responsible for myself and my actions.

The Guardian had a nice piece about this: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/16/men-masculinity-gillette-advertisement?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Pages_Manager, with this paragraph kind of at the heart of it: ”If “real men”, according to the men’s rights movement, are tough and commanding, why are the exponents of this doctrine so easily discomposed? Why does the slightest challenge to the norms they proclaim – by a razor ad or an academic body they had probably never encountered before – trigger this frenzied testeria?”

@seawulf575 I didn’t mean to come across as generalizing conservatives. I’m just referring to the conservative Christians who hate this ad.

In the ad, they’re literally preaching against being lustful, spiteful, and violent. Basically what Jesus preached. But I wonder if it was a commercial about how homosexuality is a sin, would they love the ad then? Most likely.

I shave with a sharp rock.

Not a bad ad I suppose. I think morality lectures from corporate companies for more money are getting really old. Yes, people should ALL try to do better, it’s common sense.

How can anyone deny what a man is? Some men are more open about it but all are the same inside.

@KNOWITALL: “I think morality lectures from corporate companies for more money are getting really old.”

yep

It’s not like this is a commandment carved in stone that will make the world a better place. It isn’t designed to do that. It is designed to make you feel better, it is designed to get talked about and it is designed to sell men’s shaving products. Maybe I’m a cynic but I’m no more cynical than the people who designed this advertisement.

@seawulf575 ” What I learned growing up on how to be a man was to be honest and caring. To treat others with respect. ”

That has nothing to do with being a man. It has everything to do with being a decent human being. But I agree with you.

The ad is doing exactly what it was designed to do. Have people talk about Gilette razors.

“Family values” is most certainly code for “anti-gay”. Because to those conservatives, it’s gay people that threaten the integrity of the family, not mass incarceration, the sky-high divorce rate, and economic hardship that compel both parents to work.

That said, this ad was a ploy to get attention. And it got mine, hence why I asked about “toxic masculinity” the other day. I’m not opposed to a company trying to get attention in this way, but let’s call it for what it is. This wasn’t done out of the goodness of their hearts.

@canidmajor Masculinity is, ironically, one of the most fragile things in existence.

I don’t understand how the video could get so much dislikes. I didn’t hear anything offensive. I don’t even know how the ads is connected to Christians. All I saw was not-so-interesting ad that tried to provoke society’s morale.

@Demosthenes: “This wasn’t done out of the goodness of their hearts.”

Of course not – by definition. This is an advertisement. I don’t think anyone would claim otherwise.

@seawulf575: ”@notnotnotnot disgust for the actions of corporate America is not the same as distaste for capitalism.”

It’s a much deeper criticism of the economic system than you are letting on…or realize.

@notnotnotnot Sure. I just tend to eyeroll when another company declares itself “woke”. Which companies do all the time, whether proclaiming themselves pro-environment or patriotic.

I think most of the negative reaction is for that reason, not because everyone who hates the ad is an incel/MRA.

@Unofficial_Member It’s virtue signaling. Look at the video in the link, and all the comments underneath.

Here’s one:
Targeting men in terms of topics like bullying and harassment. Sounds to me like the very definition of racism.
And no I’m not right wing / left wing, or even remotely into that kind of thinking.
Making these topics into a gender-based problem (being a man, or “typical man behaviour”) is seriously dangerous and obviously hurtful. Whether intentional or not.

@Demosthenes: “Sure. I just tend to eyeroll when another company declares itself “woke”.”

Me too (I’m anti-capitalist). But the reaction of people who previously ridiculed fragility, victimization, and safe spaces is funny at least.

@Demosthenes: “I think most of the negative reaction is for that reason, not because everyone who hates the ad is an incel/MRA.”

I suppose it depends. I only watched the ad once there was backlash from those who feel that masculinity is under attack. And @seawulf575 definitely attacked it from the incel/mens’ rights angle.

@Demosthenes, something that every woman starts learning how to deal with in childhood.

@notnotnotnot Oh I agree. Nothing brings out the hypocrites like something like this. It shows who the “snowflakes” really are. I’m not so stupid that I think talking about “toxic masculinity” is the same as saying “all men are bad”, just as “black lives matter” didn’t mean “white people don’t matter”. You can always predict who will take statements like that the wrong way.

There are good masculine traits. “Toxic masculinity” is when those traits are taken to extremes and then touted as “proper” male behavior. That’s at least how I view it.

@KNOWITALL Oh I see. It is, indeed, possible to look at it from that angle. I’m sure the video isn’t intended to spur that kind of emotion from men. I believe if the men themselves are secure and flexible they won’t look at the video in negative light.

I love it. The #metoo movement is the best thing to ever happen for women.

@kritiper “All men are the same inside”? So the guy who was raised with an abusive drunken father, who beat him as a child to make him “tough,” to make him into a “Real Man!” is going to be the same kind of man that @Caravanfan is, whose father was a gentle, intelligent philosopher?

@Caravanfan except look at the conversations here. We aren’t talking about Gillette razors. We are talking about the #MeToo movement, how men are, how conservatives are, what a real man is….pretty much everything EXCEPT razors. Not even discussing shaving cream!

@Dutchess_III thanks.
@seawulf575 I don’t use shaving cream. I’m a real man. :-)

I don’t shave period. I’m a really real man!

@caravanfan Me either. A bottle of cheap hair conditioner works better.

@seawulf575 But we are all referencing the Gillette ad. We all know where this conversation started. And out IRL, just the mention of this ad will evoke Gillette razors..

@seawulf575 Its only purpose is to make you remember their brand, and it’s working. From where they sit it’s a wildly successful advertisement.

Never thought of that @chyna. Thanks for the idea.

@Dutchess_III remember when Nike used Colin Kaepernick and his protests as their ad? Their stocks plummeted. Yeah, we all remembered their brand. Remembering and being urged towards it are two different things. In this case, what they are doing is basically telling all men that they are bad…that they need to change. Guess what? It’s time to buy Harry’s stock. Or Schick. Or join the Dollar Shave Club.

@seawulf575: “In this case, what they are doing is basically telling all men that they are bad…that they need to change.”

I must have seen a different ad.

Wait.. so Nike bombed out using Colin Kaepernick in their ads, therefore Gilette is going to bomb out using #MeToo. Yes. It is pretty obvious, isn’t it.

Something else to keep in mind…their customer base is not made up solely of men.

Except for the facts, @seawulf575 is correct.

Nike has made huge profits since the Kapernick ad: link

and link

@seawulf575 – before you make something up (like Nike’s supposed losses) you might want to check the facts.

@kritiper Are all men really the same inside?

A desperate attempt to get back market share from Dollar Shave Club and/or Harry’s

@josie: not “desperate” at all. Well thought out, well crafted, and likely to be effective.

I hated the ad. It was so obvious an attempt to capitalize on the #metoo and more radical feminism. It’s failing brand and that was not very well thought out. Thanks Gillette for asking me not to be an asshole to women (I’m not but hey…)I use an electric shaver, if you could tell me why I should use an over priced razor instead then you may have had a slight chance. Oh wait…. I can get them cheaper by orders of magnitude from competitors. Pffffft…..

^ “radical feminism”

:|

So many men are taking this personally. Here is something I ran across recently. I’m afraid I can’t attribute it.

”Here’s a good metaphor: If you’re at a pool and the lifeguard yells out “no running”, do you get offended because you personally weren’t running?
_Or do you carry on as you were, knowing you did nothing wrong but glad the people ruining it for everyone else have had their behaviour corrected?_”

If you’re not “that” man, why do you even care?

If someone can explain cogently what ”radical feminism” is, I might agree. It ranks with toxic masculinity as a totally bullshit term made up by someone with an axe to grind.

@Dutchess_III Not all men are what you think they are inside. As I have mentioned to you, more than once before, men are sexually driven creatures who think about sex all the time. I never alluded to any violent tendencies.

You are the one who said they were “all the same inside.” Were you referring strictly to being driven by sex, because you didn’t clarify that.

@elbanditoroso funny. Here’s what I found when I looked:

https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/04/news/companies/nike-stock-down-colin-kaepernick/index.html

I know…CNN money isn’t as reliable and unbiased as VOX, but there you have it. I guess it depends on what you value. Oh, here’s another:

https://www.thewrap.com/colin-kaepernick-nike-stock-loses-4-billion-market-cap/

Now maybe it’s just my old eyes, but that is a pretty steep drop on the old stock chart. Yes, they did rebound later, but really didn’t come back that far. They basically made it back to the initial drop point. So yeah….I do like facts. So maybe I was right even with them!

@elbanditoroso
You answered your own question, those who came up with “toxic masculinity”

@canidmajor that’s an interesting metaphor. Except the way it is presented is that most men are running at the pool and the life guard is yelling for all men to get out of the pool because of it. Face it…men have been stereotyped as woman haters, wife beaters, lovable idiots and several others. This ad brings it to the forefront. Are there bad men? Absolutely. Do they fit into any of the aforementioned categories? Sure. But then there are men-hating, gold-digging, narcissistic, ditzy women, yet that doesn’t apply to all. And you don’t see them portrayed that way in Hollywood, corporate America, or in shaving commercials.

See, @seawulf575, that’s where your interpretation kind of makes the point. The whole “not all men” cry speaks to the idea that the men are way more concerned about being maligned than they are about maybe fixing some of the problems.
And I know you are a big fan of “whataboutism”, but really, that’s just sort of a variant on “I know you are, but what am I?” Which is really more appropriate for the playground.

The Q was about the Gillette ad. That simple.

^ Additionally, it’s strange that he felt that he was being lectured to. Rather than seeing something in masculinity that is harmful to women and men, @seawulf575 see’s himself as a member of a tribe that needs to defend it.

The ad only seems to evoke a strong emotional response in those that need to learn something. Ad is far more effective than I had originally thought.

“Rather than seeing something in masculinity that is harmful to women and men”

There is nothing wrong with masculinity.

^ I couldn’t disagree more. Masculinity, in large part, is a socially-enforced harmful set of restrictions put on men that limits men’s ability to engage in the full spectrum of emotions and experiences. It is toxic in that it ends up having harmful effects in the society at large.

I’d say your view is completely at odds with reality then. There is nothing and I mean absoloutly nothing that masculinity does that “limits men’s ability to engage in the full spectrum of emotions and experiences” That line of thinking is off the charts bat shit crazy. I think you confuse “masculinity” with “being an asshole” and somehow think that “masculinity” is something constructed by society that needs to be rectified. Sorry, it’s not.

@Dutchess_III Men, and anyone who really knows and understands men, would know what I meant without my having to clarify.
I find it interesting that you think that all men are so utterly violent.

@kritiper “As I have mentioned to you, more than once before, men are sexually driven creatures who think about sex all the time.”

Um…That will be a big nope

@canidmajor I find it amazing that you are trying avoid the point. We were asked whether Christian Conservatives should love the new Gillette ad. I AM a Conservative Christian. I don’t like it and I have given my reasons. I have even tried to explain those reasons. Apparently I struck a chord with you because you jumped on the “you’re being too defensive” spiel. Very popular with liberals when someone disagrees with them. And my “whataboutism” is used for a purpose. We, as humans, run information through filters. One of those filters for me is to think about how we deal with an issue in other areas. In this case how we deal with women in similar circumstances. That becomes part of my explanation of my thoughts. Now you don’t like it so you want to discount it.
And the question IS about the Gillette ad. Except it isn’t an ad, it a social justice lecture. Directed at men. ALL men. And THAT is what I have a problem with. I’m tired of Hollywood and advertisers stereotyping men. That is 99% of the problem. Here’s what I’m talking about:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865574236/Dumbing-down-Dad-How-media-present-husbands-fathers-as-useless.html

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/hollywoods-attack-on-men-will-the-industry-change-its-gender-stereotyping-following-un-summit

And it’s not just this country that sees it:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/10692423/Why-are-men-on-TV-always-such-fools.html

Now this Gillette ad want to lecture men on how to behave. Sorry…I find it offensive.
So let’s review: I’m a man and you are not. I’m a Conservative Christian and you are not. And yet you believe you know how I should react to this ad better than I should. I think you have been drinking the Hollywood kool-aid too long.

And I am more liberal than @seawulf575 probably, a little less Christian politically as well as less conservative on social issues. I see the constant barrage of anti-men propaganda as a detriment to society in general. Now if some part of the audience is affected by the ad, great, but I’m very skeptical that’s the intent. The intent is to sell Gillette razors.

I, for one, am glad that the #metoo movement is still at the forefront, whether it for profit, or for whatever reason. I hope it will make a difference in my grand daughter’s quality of life.

@Dutchess On the other hand your grand daughter won’t have much use for Gillette products.

Do tell why my granddaughter, or me for that matter, wouldn’t have much use for Gillettee products, @flutherother.

You mean Gillette make products for the female market?

Are you suggesting females don’t use razors?

@Dutchess_III Well they are the best a MAN can get. That’s their tagline…lol

So? What does it matter to me what their tagline is? A razor is a razor is a razor. It cuts hair off.

@Dutchess_III I was just making a joke since that’s their tagline. For men, not women. lol

I was just going by the linked advert on this site which is aimed at men. I don’t usually watch adverts and I don’t remember when I last saw a Gillette advert.

The only difference between mens and womens razors is that womens razors are often colored pink.

^^ Which is fucking stupid — as is the whole concept of gender-specific colors.

Relevant

Well, yes. The color thing is dumb, but it’s advertising, and plenty people fall for it. A good example is the fact that Gillet’s motto is “As Good As A Man Can Get,” causes some people to assume women would have no use for their razor, when we most certainly would.

I haven’t seen the ad yet and I have no desire to but I’ve been reading opinions about it. I read this tonight and thought it was hilarious.- “I mean, it appears that Gillette isn’t a good product for sensitive skin after all.”