An Alabama woman left the U.S. to join ISIS. She was 19 at the time, now 24 and wants to come back. Should the U.S.allow her back in?

US border practices have been awful for a long time, but is this even an actual issue for them, or just a “seems like” kind of question?

Seems to me she’s of US origin and wouldn’t be denied entry, but is also a known person of interest so would be interrogated and done whatever with by Homeland Security.

The US is an insane country at this point, so what “the U.S.” should do is hard for me to find a clear perspective on how to answer. My ideal US would question her and perform a competent psych evaluation and admit her to care and rehabilitation.
(It’d do the same to most of Congress and most megacorproate CEO’s, too…)

If she was a combatant for ISIS, she is could be held as such. But after that it would go to court.

Yes. Keep an eye on her for a while, but yes. Bring our child home.

Yes, she is an American citizen. If there are any consequences for her actions, let her meet that burden in the US.

Sure, and she can go straight to jail for being part of a terrorist group.

If it’s called for. Maybe she just wants to come home and she’s sorry. She did something as a foolish child. Now she’s a wiser woman.

I guess it depends on whether she renounced her citizenship or not. She did take political and possibly military action against our country and at a minimum she supported a terrorist organization. That all needs to be addressed. At 19 she is an adult. “Brainwashed” is a cop out. She made a bad decision. If she is still officially a US citizen then she has criminal charges that need to be addressed.

We have a similar case here where the woman has not been allowed back to the UK and has lost her UK citizenship Personally I would have let her back in.

You know, people who have been through what she’s been through can have a great deal to offer afterward. She has an insight that most of us, and certainly not “kids” have. Maybe she can start speaking to schools and things now.

If she is an American citizen, yes.
But you can bet she will be watched.

Figures that she is from Al Abama.

No, she made a choice as an adult, and three times chose an Isis husband. She has likely been turned out.

@seawulf575 You pretty much nailed it. If she broke the law she should have a fair trial, be judged by a jury of her peers and face any consequences that result if found guilty.

And she has stated she is willing to face charges in U.S. courts.

But to supplement my answer, I think if she renounced her US citizenship then she is on her own. We already saw someone that did that and we gave them citizenship again in our history. His name was Lee Harvey Oswald.

No matter how this turns out, she will ultimately cost our country a fortune.
Does anyone here honestly think she will immediately become an employed taxpayer?
She will secretly and not so secretly be watched by various agencies at an unimaginable cost for a while.
She’ll be on government assistance since I doubt she’s financially secure. Could she ever get a job? Who would employ her?
Honestly, I prefer to let in 100 of the “dreaded”, hardworking Mexican/Guatemalan/etc. caravanners before her.

OTOH maybe she can be useful as a translator/agent.

I just read that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said she will not be allowed to return.
I’m torn on this issue. I feel bad for her, but she made the decision to join a terrorist group.

You know, for a self proclaimed christian country, you would think you would recognise a textbook example of the “return of the prodigal son” story.

Right @ragingloli? And turning the other cheek? And forgiving? And loving?

@ragingloli

Not the pussy grabbing government, just skip due process. Maybe your actions or others in the future will have justice without due process like train rides to the gas chambers !

J.K.

Well. We should have ICE grab them at the border and separate her from her baby, then put her in prison to rot.
That’s the kind of country we seem to have become.

My gut reaction is let her come back. She is a US citizen. She will have consequences to face though. Above, someone wrote she is 19. I’m going to say that’s still quite young, even though she is an adult.

She should be allowed back only if she is willing to be a government tool. If she is unwilling to help with information, and other cooperation, then shoot her and toss the carcass in a ditch.

She is an enemy of the state. She should be treated as such.

Why would she have renounced her citizenship? It behooves ISIS to have agents who can come and go to America without much question. Was she born and raised in America?

Edit: I just googled. She isn’t a citizen. The article said she has no legal basis to return to America.

That’s that I guess.

It seems like maybe we (America) could have maybe used her for information, but if America is saying forget it, then I’m guessing she didn’t have intel that would have helped us. Poor girl. Too bad she chose so badly. I’m fine with America refusing her though.

I read more. She was born in NJ, but supposedly her dad was a foreign diplomat at the time, so that means she doesn’t qualify for birthright citizenship. It’s one of our few exceptions, but it’s a logical exception and good exception in my opinion.

I shouldn’t expect consistency from Trump but just four days ago he called on European countries to take back ISIS fighters and put them on trial. Why won’t he do the same for the US?

@HoneyB That would mean putting her on trial in the US.

I just read that she was born in the US, but that she was the child of a diplomat from another country. This means she is not a citizen.

Where are her parents from? What is her citizenship? Is she a citizen of Turkey? That’s where she flew to first from what I read.

@Patty_Melt should we shoot her baby too? Come on people. Where is your humanity?

@Dutchess_III According to @filmfann, she is not a US citizen and left this country to support a terrorist organization. Where is HER humanity? And now she wants us to let her back in. I would say she needs to fill out a visa application and go through the system.

11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them.

13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.

“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’

28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’

31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

They are trying to say she isn’t a citizen. See here. Whether she is or not it doesn’t matter to me. This is where her family is. Bring her and her baby home.

From @ragingloli‘s comment above …be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.”

@ragingloli What does religion have to do with this? Just curious.

@seawulf575 claims to be a Christian. @ragingloli is just ‘splaining WWJD to him.

@ragingloli, who ridicules Christians and calls Christianity a myth, feels qualified to quote the bible. So which is it Rag? Is it a truth or is it a myth? Are you trying to say we should adhere to a myth? Are you using a myth to justify something?

His point is you claim to be an adherent to Christian values. He was just pointing out what some of those values are, in the book you claim to follow. He didn’t claim to be an adherent himself.

I say let her back in. I speak from a standpoint of compassion.

@seawulf575 It’s a myth to Raging, but if we believe any of it, apparently we have to throw stones at adulterers and not eat cloven footed animals….lol So held to standards they don’t believe in…lol

@seawulf575 Let’s say that I claimed to believe in the Communist Manifesto. It would be perfectly appropriate to quote from it to point out a contradiction in my own position, and that wouldn’t require you yourself to believe in it…

Held to standards that you claim to believe in.
It does not matter one iota if I believe in it or not.
It matters if you, as a self proclaimed christian country, actually believe in those values espoused by your religion, or if it is just a facade for you, a convenient stool to climb up on to proclaim your moral superiority over others.
And considering your, frankly, completely predictable response, it is clearly the latter.

@gorillapaws that is true. But the Communist Manifesto is not a myth…it is an opinion. Opinions can be debated and they are…all the time. @ragingloli has stated publicly that he believes Christianity to be a myth. A better analogy would be like me quoting Lord of the Rings to you to make a point.

@ragingloli
So as far as this woman/ thread, you are implying that as a Christian nation (which we most certainly are NOT) the Christians of the US, should support her being granted citizenship after willingly becoming a terrorist?

I will answer that. The bible says to adhere to the laws of the land, and according to this article, Pompeo said she is not eligible for citizenship. So end of story, it’s a legal matter now.

“The woman, Hoda Muthana, does not qualify for citizenship and has no legal basis to return to the country, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said.

In fact she was smuggled into Syria, where she met up with the Islamic State and began urging attacks in the West.

Now, with the militant group driven out of Syria, Ms. Muthana says she is deeply sorry, but American officials appeared intent on closing the door to her return.

Mr. Pompeo issued a statement declaring that she “is not a U.S. citizen and will not be admitted into the United States.”

Mr. Pompeo said Ms. Muthana did not have “any legal basis, no valid U.S. passport, no right to a passport, nor any visa to travel to the United States.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/world/middleeast/isis-bride-hoda-muthana.html

Pompousasseo can say a lot of things.
Fact is, that she was born in your country. Since you are operating on jus solis, it means she is a citizen by birth.
And the diplomat exception does not apply to her, because she was born 1 month after her father was discharged from his diplomatic position.

@ragingloli Again, that’s a legal issue.

She is welcome to apply and wait for the legal process, or she can come in through the southern border-the wall isn’t up yet.

Like @seawulf said, it didn’t work out too well for our country when Oswald came back.

@ragingloli do you really want to open a biblical debate with me? Okay, let’s do that. Your story of the Prodigal Son. Yep, it is about forgiveness of sins. The Lord will most certainly forgive her of her sins if she repents to him. But let’s take it a step further. There are other biblical passages that also apply. Remember, she left this country to adhere to Islam. If you are going to quote the bible, then we also need to go into worshipping false gods.

Exodus 20:2–6
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands[b] of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 12:30–31
30 take care that you be not ensnared to follow them, after they have been destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire about their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods?—that I also may do the same.’ 31 You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.

Numbers 25:3–5
So Israel joined themselves to Baal of Peor, and the LORD was angry against Israel. The LORD said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of the people and execute them in broad daylight before the LORD, so that the fierce anger of the LORD may turn away from Israel.” So Moses said to the judges of Israel, “Each of you slay his men who have joined themselves to Baal of Peor.”

How about obeying laws?

Mark 12:17
Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” And they marveled at him.

Romans 13:1–5 ESV
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

1 Peter 2:13–17 ESV
Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

There are dozens more that apply. Want to play this game? Are you trying to say that we should be a Christian only society? That seems to be your argument. I can make the statements I have made and still be within my beliefs.

@seawulf575 “she left this country to adhere to Islam. If you are going to quote the bible, then we also need to go into worshipping false gods.”

They would claim it’s the same God.

You do know that Muslims worship literally the same god as christians, right?
Just as christians worship the same god as Jews.

@ragingloli

Because Muslims deny that God has a son, they explicitly reject any Trinitarian language. From the very starting point, Islam denies what Christianity takes as its central truth claim: the fact that Jesus Christ is the only begotten of the Father. If Allah has no son, then Allah is not the God who reveals Himself through the Son. How then can calling God “Allah” not lead to anything but confusion—and worse?

Islam teaches that the doctrine of the Trinity is blasphemous. But the Christian faith is essentially and irreducibly Trinitarian. The Bible reveals that the Father is God, that the Son is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. Jesus is not merely a prophet, as acknowledged by Muslims, He is God in human flesh. This is precisely what Islam rejects.

https://billygraham.org/decision-magazine/december-2013/do-christians-and-muslims-worship-the-same-god/

Judaism also rejects the trinity and the divinity of Jesus.
The fact that Islam rejects them, too, only makes it more congruous with the original.
If you going to say that buying into Jesus and the Trinity is required for you to believe that it is the same god, then where do you get off on claiming that christianity worships the same god as Judaism?

@ragingloli @JLeslie can speak as to Judaism, and she said above this is a logical exception to her, as well. So that is why I’m not sure why religious beliefs have anything to do with this particular legal issue.

Something went off the rails somewhere when you have atheists calling for compassion and forgiveness, and Christians calling for rejection and imprisonment, at the risk of her little baby. Sounds more like the actions of the Satan I was told to believe in.

@gorillapaws and @ragingloli yes, I know they stem from the same place in history, but I will tell you they do NOT believe we worship the same god. If they did, why would they want to kill us to please their god? And the Christian religion is a stem of Judaism. Jesus was a Jew. He kept the Mosaic Laws. Islam is entirely different so it would be viewed as a false religion. But I find it entirely interesting that @ragingloli starts off trying to shame me by using the bible and when he is schooled, he suddenly starts deflecting with a definition of which God is right. In the end, I can adhere to my religion and make the statements I have. Now, care to continue this or are you saying we should ALL obey Christian doctrine? If that is what you are saying, I’m good with that…but I think you overstepped your bounds of reality and you know it.

Do you believe in the teachings of Jesus or not @seawulf575? Do you try to emulate him in your life or not?

Surely you do not have to be reminded of how christians have been killing each other over minor differences in doctrine?

@seawulf575 ”[Muslims] do NOT believe we worship the same god.”

This is factually inaccurate.

@ragingloli please, enlighten us with all the killings that have been done in the name of Christ in the past 50 years or so. Oh wait…you have to narrow it down to Christians killing other Christians in the name of Jesus….that is what you claimed.

There is a whole page about it on Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarian_violence_among_Christians

@ragingloli did you actually read the article you cited? 99% of what it talks about is from 400–500 years ago and older. Want to go back in time and look at what every group on Earth did to each other for the past 500 years? That’s why I asked for the past 50 years or so. Basically…none. Some influence in Great Britain/Ireland and some in the break-up of Yugoslavia. But the religious aspect is only a piece in those conflicts. Even the KKK was from almost 100 years ago. Your citation makes you look even more foolish.

I give zero fucks about what arbitrary restrictions you want me to comply with, kiddo.

Ahh…so forgiveness only applies to Christians and the rest of you fucks just hold a grudge for millenia. got it.

Non sequitur.

As your entire contribution has been.

Since my name was brought in…the way I was always taught was the Muslims, Christians, and Jews all believe in the same single God. The Christians (and anyone feel free to correct me) think of Jesus as God, and since Jews and Muslims don’t consider Jesus to be the son of God or the messiah or God Himself, I guess one could argue the Christians have a different God, but I never understood that, and don’t really agree with it. There is God, and there is Jesus, but it doesn’t change the original God who created the earth and the sky and the universe, etc., etc. First there was Judaism, and so the original monolithic God from which the Abrahamic religions stem from is one and the same.

I don’t see what religion has to do with the Q though.

This girl was born and raised in America. Almost all Americans feel children raised in America, children brought here young and living in America their whole lives, should have an easy path to citizenship. This girl actually was both here, but within the exception for birthright citizenship eligibility. In normal circumstances, even though this woman was not born a citizen, people would want her to be able to become a citizen, and probably she could have easily applied at 18 and been approved, I assume she had a green card, but I don’t know, have they said in any articles? Was her father still a diplomat, or was he living in America under a working visa or green card? She went off with ISIS! I have compassion for her, because she was young, but she grew up basically as an American her whole life in America, unless she spent a lot of time out of the country and it is not being reported. How the hell does an American become radicalized like that? She wasn’t locked away in a cage with Stockholm Syndrome. She chose this path with many other paths available to her in America. Unless, maybe there is a part of the story I don’t know about. What do her parents say, what country are they from?

She might be useful to us in some ways if we wanted to bother, but if the US doesn’t want to bother I’m fine with it. I guess she could lecture others on why what she does was ridiculous and awful and brainwashed and crazy, as part of her sentence, but I don’t know if that will be the same as when former KKK members do it, or when drunk drivers tell teens why they shouldn’t.

Let her go to another country. Where is her citizenship? Why doesn’t she ask to go to where she has blood right citizenship, assuming she is not stateless.

@JLeslie Only brought you in for the Jewish pov.

To me there is only one God, too. I argue about it sometimes with my family lol

@KNOWITALL I’m no authority for the Jewish POV, but I gave my POV anyway. Lol. Not surprising I’m sure. I wasn’t annoyed you mentioned me.

The rest of my answer was just following up on how the thread was unfolding and no so much an answer to you. I think we are fairly close in our thinking with this. Maybe I’m a little more lenient on her than you, but not enough to fight for her.

From @gorillapaws’ link ”...those who say: Lol We are Christians.” LOL we are! :D

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/lo

^^^ LOL! Yeah. I know silly. I had to physically go in and replace teh ! with an l. It’s just what struck me at first glance.