Should political views matter?

I think we circle back to the old question about capitalism again. These are large corporations, and their ideology is money. If they feel that there would be a hit to their bottom line due to how they are perceived, then they will not do it.

Your tendency to adopt the language of liberals (“could this be viewed as discrimination”) in order to try to appeal to others’ inherent like of fairness might be tripping you up, however. It’s disingenuous on its face. Try looking a bit deeper. I swear, you’re so close comrade. You’ll see soon enough that much of your complaining is really about free market capitalism.

Additionally, like many conservatives, your mode of attack is one of identity politics. Yet, you feel that identity politics is wrong. Identity politics (as it is cynically practiced currently, in corporate culture and in politics) has its problems for sure. But that doesn’t mean that calling for safe spaces and discrimination based on being conservative/white/christian/etc has any validity. It’s far more cynical and absurd to base your calls against “discrimination” on a view that the most privileged are the victims. Your rants amount to a perpetual call for safe spaces for those who are living in a culture-wide safe space.

And finally, while calling out hypocrisy has its place, it only works if you are evaluating the principles involved. If someone calls out something the Trump administration is doing, it’s insufficient to respond with “well, Obama did it too”. You can do this, but then we must work together to make sure it doesn’t happen – regardless of who did it. “But Obama did it too” is not the honest defense of Trump you believe it is. It really amounts to a condemnation of both of them, and a call to action for us to correct the wrong.

An actor has to project an image. For better or worse, what we know about the actor’s personal life plays into that image. For example, I was able to watch All in the Family believing it satirized the views of Archie Bunker. I would not have been able to watch it if I believed that Carroll O’Connor shared the character’s views.

Would you ever consider watching a film starring someone you knew had leftist political views?

@hmmmmmm I think you are stretching to say it is capitalism. By your rationale, if a company feels they will be perceived some way that may hit there bottom line so it is okay, then why was it wrong when people didn’t want blacks in their establishments? They would be perceived badly and it would hit their bottom line, yet they had to accept them (and rightfully so). You cannot have it both ways.
As for identity politics, I am not using that other than as a position of where it has been done to others. If it is okay to be a liberal but not a conservative, aren’t those favoring liberals using identity politics? Again, is it right or wrong? You can’t have it both ways. But all discrimination issues are, at their heart, identity politics. So if this bothers you, I fully expect to see you use this exact same discussion you are having with me, with every liberal on here that used identity politics, otherwise you are blowing hypocritical hot air.
And I have absolutely no problem calling out Trump for things I see that I believe he is wrong on. But I will 100% of the time use the “Obama did it too” when I see liberals frothing at the mouth over something when they were silent or cheered as Obama did it. Again…you can’t have it both ways. Either something is right or wrong. Or else you are a hypocrite. So if you see me using that phrase or some derivation of it, you might want to look at it not as a dodge, but a call on the hypocrisy.

@LostInParadise I watch movies all the time that star people with liberal views. Unless the movie is celebrating something I find offensive politically (the theme of the movie, not the actor), I have no problem with that person’s private views. That is exactly what I am talking about. You wouldn’t watch a movie if you knew someone held different views as you. Why? Does that make them a different quality of actor? And if you are going to go down that path, why would you accept ANY movie or TV show that differs from your own political views? We see movies with gun violence, yet most liberals want guns gone. Why would you watch a movie like that? We see movies and shows all the time where the hero stands up for conservative standards and they are cheered. Why would you watch a movie like that? Yet some of these are blockbusters. And liberal actors frequently star in them, even make careers doing so. So why would they do that?

@seawulf575: “By your rationale, if a company feels they will be perceived some way that may hit there bottom line so it is okay, then why was it wrong when people didn’t want blacks in their establishments?”

Nope. I’m not a capitalist. That’s your thing. See what I mean?

@seawulf575: “As for identity politics, I am not using that other than as a position of where it has been done to others.”

Which is precisely my point. You are allowing hypocrisy (or perceived hypocrisy) to be a means and an end to your argument.

@seawulf575: “if this bothers you, I fully expect to see you use this exact same discussion you are having with me, with every liberal on here that used identity politics, otherwise you are blowing hypocritical hot air.”

Again – hypocrisy is a dead end here. But keep in mind that I’m a leftist, so our battles are with liberals and conservatives. Most of the time, it’s with liberals. And like I said, identity politics as it’s defined and practiced is problematic. It’s often a tool used to stifle dissent, and often the target is the left (see 2016 Democratic primary). But there is a legitimate way to look at identity that is meaningful.

@seawulf575: “But I will 100% of the time use the “Obama did it too” when I see liberals frothing at the mouth over something when they were silent or cheered as Obama did it.”

But here’s where you could find common ground with the left, who was no fan of Obama. While we called out his drone bombing or earning his “deporter-in-chief” moniker re: immigration, were you joining forces with those on the left? Are you currently speaking out against our immigration policy and actions? Are you expressing your concerns about bombing people around the world?

Saying something is “hypocritical” and then stopping there doesn’t work. You either need to have some principles or not. If you don’t have any, then you’re just spinning and trolling. So, what is it?

@seawulf575: “So if you see me using that phrase or some derivation of it, you might want to look at it not as a dodge, but a call on the hypocrisy.”

It’s 100% objectively a vacuous dodge if that’s where you end.

The “Obama did it too” line assumes that the other person agreed with it when Obama did it. Further, “__ did it too” wasn’t considered an acceptable excuse in kindergarten. An adult should certainly know better.

As for actors, etc. – express whatever views you want. Nobody’s obligated to buy your product.

Yes.

@hmmmmmm “Which is precisely my point. You are allowing hypocrisy (or perceived hypocrisy) to be a means and an end to your argument.” No, I am seeing a hypocrisy in reality. It is not the end of an argument, it is a question. Is it okay to be a hypocrite? My answer is no, it isn’t. Yours seems to be a dodge from saying yes, it is.

“Again – hypocrisy is a dead end here. But keep in mind that I’m a leftist, so our battles are with liberals and conservatives. Most of the time, it’s with liberals. And like I said, identity politics as it’s defined and practiced is problematic. It’s often a tool used to stifle dissent, and often the target is the left (see 2016 Democratic primary). But there is a legitimate way to look at identity that is meaningful.” This is a long winded dodge on your part again. I asked a question about discrimination. Discrimination IS identity politics. Your response to me was an attack for daring to call this out. And I know you will never dare to call out a fellow liberal on using identity politics (which, by the way, you have used a number of times so far in our own discussion). Now that I have clocked you on that you go into a long-winded dodge. Typical of liberals.

“But here’s where you could find common ground with the left, who was no fan of Obama. While we called out his drone bombing or earning his “deporter-in-chief” moniker re: immigration, were you joining forces with those on the left? Are you currently speaking out against our immigration policy and actions? Are you expressing your concerns about bombing people around the world?” Sorry, the left supported Obama on everything he did. Did I call him out on drone bombings? Not specifically, but I did say his use of military force in Syria was unwarranted and illegal. I did say his actions led to the creation of ISIS. I call out a number of Constitutional violations. And all of these things, you on the left argued with me on. Every single one. So don’t act now like you were down on him. And as for things going on today I do speak out on immigration issues. I feel we need to enforce our laws. I feel that if our laws are cumbersome and need to be streamlined, that is on Congress, not the POTUS. I speak out on all these things. And you know who argues with me 100% of the time? Lefties. Every time. Yet when questioned about why they feel it is okay to violate our immigration laws, they jump into trying to attack me. They never actually answer that question. Gonna prove me wrong? Or are you, like all your ilk, going to attack me and dodge it? After all, here is your chance to find common ground with the right.

“It’s 100% objectively a vacuous dodge if that’s where you end.” And as always, when called for their hypocrisy, the left says it’s a dodge. You want to point to an action by a conservative and say it is wrong, but cheer when a lefty does the exact same thing. When that discrepancy is pointed out, it’s suddenly a dodge. Well it is a dodge on the part of the left so I guess you are partly correct.

Do conservatives really have to hide their views, or do they just think they have to hide them? This could be pointless self-censorship for all we know. Plenty of people who have expressed conservative (or just anti-liberal) views have done just fine in Hollywood. Off the top of my head, I can think of Clint Eastwood, James Woods, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Bruce Willis, Patricia Heaton, Chuck Norris, Kelsey Grammer, Drew Carey, and Robert Downey, Jr. It isn’t censorship to publicly disagree with them.

@Darth_Algar Yes, it does make that assumption. But here’s the key…those that argue with me seem to be incapable of actually saying “Yes, he did that too and he was wrong for doing it.” I have NEVER heard a single person that says I’m dodging by using Obama actions as an example say anything even close to that. So why is that? I just responded to @hmmmmmm about calling out the military actions by Obama. Guess what? I called Bush II on the same stuff. We had no business getting into Iraq or Afghanistan. I said that at the time and I still say that. I AM capable of being consistent. Why is it those on the left cannot be?

@seawulf575 For someone who views media reporting with such scepticism it is odd that you cite a story run by the Daily Mail, a newspaper famed in the UK for unreliable and sensationalist reporting to support your case.

However I did find it amusing that the Daily Mail quotes Elizabeth Pipko as saying she was convinced that Trump would be the country’s next president ‘because of the way he spoke and his honesty.’

@seawulf575 – Have fun.

@seawulf575

Frankly speaking, I don’t think you’d acknowledge it even when you see it.

Though, perhaps, if you wanted to talk about Obama then you should have been here while Obama was president. Since he’s not anymore then he’s not really relevant to what’s going on in the White House now. Trump is, and using ”...but Obama…” is nothing more than deflection.

You know what is wrong with your enforcing immigration laws stance @seawulf575?

I have a feeling if an insane American President fires missiles on illegals to kill them you would find it justifiable.

That is how you and other die-hard trump supporters come across.

And yes political views matter. Whether conservative or liberal if you’re perceived as supportive of cruel acts you’ll be looked at as a cruel and despicable human being as well. By some, you will be shunned and criticized and other wouldn’t want to have anything to do with you.

Of course they shouldn’t. My ability to write or spell or do math or act, has nothing to do with my opinions about politics.

Now if I CHOOSE to be outspoken publicly, like on the news burning an American flag, I can see that being an issue if my job depended on public consumption of my product, such as an actor.

I certainly can seperate the two, which is why I still have many liberal friends that I can have rational discussions with and don’t take it so personally it ruins the friendship.

@flutherother and as if on cue, someone attacks the source instead of the content. Are you denying that a Maxim model had to hide that she was a Trump supporter because she feared for her career? There are plenty of other sources, but it seems you aren’t interested in the topic.
If you have a source that denies this story, please…tell me that is so. Otherwise, your comment is nothing but a dodge.

@Darth_Algar It is true that Obama is no longer president. However, there are many, many people still alive (as was I) while he was. We all got to see how he was treated and the excuses that were made. We also get to see how those same excuse makers are reacting today. When the two don’t jive, it is called hypocrisy. The Obama statements are not about Obama…they are about the same people living today that are reacting differently to the same actions. The fact that everyone tries that same, lame “he’s no longer president so it doesn’t matter” line are the real deflectors. They purposely try to avoid actually having to defend their hypocrisy.

@mazingerz88 Interesting. You asked what was wrong with my enforcing immigration laws stance and then you told me about your feeling. That isn’t fact. You then create some bizarre scenario that you try to attribute to me. That came out of YOUR mind and fingers, not mine. You want to play? Fine…answer the question. Tell me what is wrong with enforcing immigration laws.

And, @mazingerz88, the ostracizing of Republicans in Hollywood and in the entire entertainment industry has been going on for decades. Your response of supporting hateful acts is lame because (a) you can’t justify it with any hateful acts and (b) you can’t support that opinion for decades of behavior. It is strictly bias by the elite in Hollywood….you know…discrimination.

@seawulf575 Is it true that this model claims she had to hide her support of Trump? Yes it’s true. Is it a news story? No it isn’t, it is just office gossip fed to a receptive tabloid.

@flutherother so it’s your stance that unless it is reported in a liberal rag, it didn’t really happen? That it really isn’t important? So you are okay with discrimination as long as it doesn’t show up on HuffPo or Vox or Mother Jones?

@seawulf575 What is wrong with enforcing immigration laws is you are the ones enforcing it. You and your trump turd.

@seawulf575 What didn’t really happen? It’s a non-news story about nothing.

@seawulf575 You may not be doing hateful acts yourself in Hollywood but if you support and condone it, what’s the big difference?

@seawulf575 What you aren’t understanding is that it’s okay for Obama to be named the Deporter in Chief and go for immigration reform, but not Trump. It’s pretty obvious…haha.

“Those who enter the country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law and they are showing disregard for those who are following the law,” Obama said in the clip. “We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked, and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country.”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/trump-i-agree-with-obamas-assessment-on-illegal-immigration

No, they should not matter. But they should not be brought out in discussion unless it’s appropriate, either.
The only thing that should matter is if she is any good at her job. That goes for everyone.

It cracks me up when the right wheels out accusations of leftist intolerance and leftist fear of conservative righteousness. The model should be more concerned that her assessment of Trump as an honest man might brand her the stereotypical empty headed bimbo notorious to her profession.

@stanleybmanly So to clarify, any woman who thinks of Trump as an honest man, deserves the empty headed bimbo label? Wow.

@stanleybmanly Or, possibly, she is fed up modelling and is angling to work for Trump again.

“So to clarify, any woman who thinks of Trump as an honest man, deserves the empty headed bimbo label?”

I’ll bite. Yes.

Yes.

@mazingerz88 and that is where you fail. You look at laws as only being enforceable based on ideology. I look on them as applying to all. It doesn’t matter who is breaking the laws and who is enforcing them. If there are laws, they need to be enforced. Your problem is that you are holding the wrong people accountable. Who is responsible for writing or changing the laws in this country? It isn’t Trump. It isn’t the POTUS. It is Congress. Trump has tried repeatedly to get them to take up immigration reform and they absolutely refuse to. That is not the fault of the POTUS, it is the fault of a dysfunctional congress.
You keep talking about hateful acts. Please give an example so we can all understand your fantasy.

@Stache There’s nothing to ‘bite’ on, just an observation.

I find it astounding and amusing that a Dem woman should be respected after clearly uneducated policy comments, but ANY woman (educated or not) who finds Trump honest or shall I say, admirable, in any way deserves less respect.

Last I heard all women who voted Trump did so because their husbands told them to.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-trump-married-women-voters-20180427-story.html

@flutherother you stated that the entire discrimination against a conservative isn’t worth talking about because it wasn’t in a real “news” outlet…I cited a “tabloid”. You admit it happened, but you don’t want to talk about it. So I have challenged you…what makes it important in your world?

@stanleybmanly “It cracks me up when the right wheels out accusations of leftist intolerance and leftist fear of conservative righteousness. ” That sounds pretty much like the justification of the southern democrats when people brought up discrimination against blacks. Chang the “right” and “left” labels and you are pretty spot on. So discrimination is okay to the left, that’s what you are saying?

@KNOWITALL I in no way wish to restrict that empty head certification to women.

@seawulf575 No that is not what I’m saying. But before proceeding further with your inane fantasies, allow me to disabuse you of the fantastic lunacy that 1960 era Southern Democrats were adherents of the left.

@seawulf575 Enough of your BS hiding behind law enforcement, whether it’s cruel or not is fine as long as it’s being…enforced. That’s your favorite “gotcha” retort I know.

Taking kids from their parents at the border is a hateful act. You like it and you condone it. What does that make you exactly? A happy law enforcer. Good job.

@seawulf575 It is insignificant not because it isn’t in a “real” news outlet but because it isn’t real news. You can talk about it or admire the shapely pictures of the model but it is a made up story about nothing, something the Daily Mail specialises in.

@mazingerz88 so did Obama. Where was your outrage then? But let me point out that there are many crimes at our borders. Illegal entry is just one. Drugs is another. Human trafficking, in particular children, is a third. Just because someone says they are a parent doesn’t mean they are. Here’s the facts: There are ways to enter this country legally. They are cheaper and safer than hiking 2000 miles and paying a coyote to sneak you across the border. When you enter legally, you don’t have to worry about all the drama. Ask the millions of legal immigrants that want us to enforce border security and immigration laws. They are on board with that as well. If people apply for a work visa, a tourism visa, whatever and want to apply for citizenship, I am all on board. Do it legally. Now, why are you so against this? Why are you so in support of ignoring our immigration laws?

@stanleybmanly yes, I know. That is why I would have to change the labels. But the attitude you are displaying is the same.

@flutherother so you don’t believe there is any liberal bias in the US entertainment industry. That’s your stance?

@seawulf575 Try to be smarter than you already are and realize that trump is not enough of a human being to tackle the issue of immigration reform in the US.

Legal and illegal immigrants are better off with another actual human being politician working with Democrats on that issue.

@mazingerz88 so when the Dems held majority in the House, the Senate, and the Presidency and they did nothing…that is the sort of work you are talking about? Trump has specifically asked Congress to work on immigration reform. The Dems refused to do anything…because he asked for it. Childish? You bet! Helpful? Not at all. But it is interesting that you absolutely refuse to answer the simple question of why you are so against following the law. You refuse to answer why you in support of ignoring immigration laws. My guess is that you know you don’t have a leg to stand on but just can’t challenge your fantasy world that much to voice that understanding.

The Dems did nothing when they had the majority? Where were you Mars? Of course they did something. Wasn’t enough obviously.

Awww…do you get a trophy from Mar-a-Lago every time you corner somebody to say they support ignoring immigration laws? Lol

@seawulf575 To be fair, I think Obama was trying (since he campaigned on it), but chose to focus on the ACA as his legacy.

Eight years ago, President Barack Obama entered the White House on a promise to reform America’s immigration system. His urgency ultimately dissipated and reforming America’s immigration system will not be counted among his achievements. Other issues took priority, partisan divides emerged, and an intransigent Congress refused to move legislation across the finish line. Thus, President Obama will leave office today with a mixed legacy on immigration. While he failed to get a comprehensive immigration reform law passed, he took important steps toward protecting DREAMERs and focusing enforcement priorities. However, deportations rose to record highs, and some of the most vulnerable immigrant populations continue to suffer.

http://immigrationimpact.com/2017/01/20/president-obamas-legacy-immigration/

^^Correct.

Now the post above is an answer not coming from trump’s butt pulled out by one of his supporters imo.

Well, Obama came up with The Dream Act. It was a good start. Hell of a lot better than the inhumanity trump has perpetuated on those poor people.

Ahh yes…DOMA and DACA. Any other violations of the Constitution you want to bring up? Here’s a clue folks…ALL LAWS HAVE TO START IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES! DOMA and DACA were not laws. Look it up. They were Obama trying to do something and doing it illegally. So tell me, what did the DEMOCRATS in congress actually do? What laws did they pass? Oh yeah….none.

@seawulf575 Do you really think people don’t know that? Your brain operates in an altogether laughable sort of universe. Shallow.

@mazingerz88 apparently people like you don’t know that. @KNOWITALL gave a reference to Obama’s immigration legacy and it was DOMA and DACA. YOU stated ”^^Correct.

Now the post above is an answer not coming from trump’s butt pulled out by one of his supporters imo.”

That says to me that you agree with his actions which were, by the way, a violation of the Constitution. So don’t come here now, after I pointed that out for you, and say “Do you relly think people don’t know that?” You are a sad, little thing, aren’t you?

Do you have a reliable source proving that DACA is unconstitutional? Here is a leftist article saying otherwise. DACA is more constitutional than grabbing federal funds to build an unauthorized wall along the Mexican border.

https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/daca-unconstitutional-obama-admitted

There is your source for how DACA is unconstitutional. Obama admitted it and the SCOTUS upheld the injunction against DAPA a few years later as being unconstitutional. Now, I do note one thing…you cite ThinkProgress and then challenge me to provide a reliable source? How is ThinkProgress reliable? They are as skewed to the left as they come. So you can pack in any ideas that you might have of saying the Heritage foundation is skewed right or unreliable. I’m not going to play that silly game that says I have to come up with a left leaning website to support my ideas. Tell you what…you come up with a right leaning website that supports your claim then we can talk.

I’ll say it again, check your sources @seawulf575. “The mission of “The Heritage Foundation” is to formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense. ”

@seawulf575 , The supposed admission by Obama using statements taken out of context is not very convincing. I said up front that I was using a leftist source. My point was that there is a difference of opinion. I think that, despite their political bias, they make a good case. Did anyone bring a legal challenge to DACA? If anyone did, they obviously did not prevail. Legal challenges are being brought against the Wall. We will have to wait to see how things turn out.

@Dutchess_III I will say it again…if you are going to come at me about my sources, you damn well better be going after everyone or I will lambaste you. For instance, you slam me because I used a conservative source. Yet @LostInParadise used ThinkProgress who has this as their mission:
“ThinkProgress is a news site dedicated to providing our readers with rigorous reporting and analysis from a progressive perspective. Founded in 2005, ThinkProgress is an editorially independent project of the Center for American Progress Action Fund. ”

No if you research the Center for American Progress Action Fund you find this tidbit:

“The Center for American Progress Action Fund is an independent, nonpartisan policy institute and advocacy organization that is dedicated to improving the lives of all Americans, through bold, progressive ideas, as well as strong leadership and concerted action. Our aim is not just to change the conversation, but to change the country.”

That is their mission. Both of these organizations boast of being “progressives” and pushing a “Liberal viewpoint”. The Center for American Progress Action Fund was founded by John Podesta who, oh yeah, was Hillary’s campaign manager. It is supported heavily from George Soros and we all know how unbiased he is. So let me ask you, dear….why aren’t you slamming @LostInParadise for using a biased source? They are no more reliable and possibly less. Or are you just being a hypocrite trying to act like only I chose a biased source? OR are you indeed unable to physically and psychologically admit that the left is HUGE with bias?

@LostInParadise here’s the key…DACA was an Executive Order that carried the weight of law. The Congress had specifically shot down legislation that wanted to do exactly what Obama did with that EO. So he tried, and succeeded with the help of complicit Democrats, to bypass congress in an effort to create law. THAT is illegal. I don’t know if anyone challenged it, but they did challenge DAPA, which was the same thing for the parents of the children addressed in DACA. That was shot down as being unconstitutional and went to the SCOTUS where the ruling of the lower court was upheld. Legal challenges are being brought against the idea that Trump can declare a national emergency to build the wall. It is unlikely these will prevail since the POTUS is given the option of declaring a national emergency with no guidelines for what constitutes a national emergency. And here’s the kicker….the Dems are doing exactly the same thing they always do. They are challenging something that later on down the road they will regret when they are held to the same standard. Obama passed a number of national emergencies and ended up using funds to support them. So it has been done in the past. Obama was by no means the first POTUS to do it, either. All the way back to Gerald Ford, every president has declared some national emergency. There is a long tradition of it and no one has demanded the POTUS justify his declaration. There is nothing in the rules for him to have to do so. Now, the idiots in the House can try passing a legislative measure to make him justify it, but that would have to be approved by the Senate (unlikely) and the POTUS (definitely not) before it could be used.

Damn. You’re gonna lambast me @seawulf575? I am scared shitless.
If someone here posts a quote from “Occupy Democrats” or “The Palmer Report” I will call them out on it because those are not reputable news site. However, I have yet to see any of the liberals here do that.
However, you have no qualms about reporting from BS sources because you think it’s OK to lie as long as it backs up what you want to believe.

Are you have a difficult time with reading comprehension @seawulf575? I said NO website with any kind of agenda is trustworthy. It doesn’t matter if it’s left leaning or right leaning. I will not accept facts from such websites, even if they’re saying what I really want to hear.
I am more interested in the truth.
Do you comprehend?

Do you comprehend? I pointed out EXACTLY that ThinkProgress has a huge liberal bias. Yet you didn’t call out @LostInParadise for using it, so what you are saying now is just a blatant lie. You apparently accepted those facts just fine, because it says what you want to believe. Don’t try backing it up now….you threw the turd so now you get to deal with the smell that sticks to you.

I also didn’t comment on @LostInParadise‘s post. But now that it’s been drawn to my attention I did some further research and DACA was NOT unconstitutional. Here is is an article by the BBC that shows that last year the trump administration was ordered to resume it. They would not have ruled that way if it had been illegal or unconstitutional.

I gave your citation the same kind of scrutiny and I could not find a single article from a reputable source back up your citation, so I call bull shit.

And there is your “reputable” again. Apparently unless they are drooling liberals, they aren’t reputable for you. And you still haven’t discussed a single thing in the article I cited. You are calling it lies…point them out. Or STFU.

They are reputable if they report the facts and leave opinion and wild speculation out of it. Here is a good place to start. I was disappointed, and surprised, really, to see CNN so far down there. But I accepted it, and I no longer use them as a news source.

I have addressed it. Your source claims that DACA was unconstitutional. It was not or it would not have been upheld by the courts last year.
It also claims that “Obama knew it,” and used some quote that he may or may not have said, “I am not king. I can’t do these things just by myself.” IF he said it, we don’t know the context in which he said it because your source, conveniently, won’t provide it.

Also, you sound like a baby throwing a temper tantrum, you know. “ME???!! What about HER???!!!”

Interestingly, ThinkProgress doesn’t show up on your chart. So why didn’t you call @LostInParadise on his use of a bogus source?
As for your claims, they sound amazingly like “I don’t like that so it can’t be true!” Examples:

DACA upheld by the courts last year. The injuctions against closing DACA were all from activist judges and the lawsuits continue.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/01/us/daca-lawsuit-texas.html

https://www.nilc.org/issues/daca/status-current-daca-litigation/

So your claim is bullshit. And Where is you Source? Oh wait…only I have to provide those…I forgot.

As for Obama’s statement of “I am not king, I can’t do these things just by myself”, that comes from a speech to latinos about why he can’t correct immigration laws.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/oct/25/news/la-pn-obama-immigration-reform-20101026

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/transcript-president-obamas-speech-on-the-50th-anniversary-of-the-march-on-washington/2013/08/28/0138e01e-0ffb-11e3-8cdd-bcdc09410972_story.html

So he DID say it…there is no IF. Maybe if you did your own homework instead of leaving it to me you wouldn’t look like such a bimbo. AND you would be able to provide proof of your statements. But you NEVER do that either.

It isn’t a bogus source. Here is the synopsis of the site.

@seawulf575 My debate is not with @LostInParadise. It is with you. Not sure why you expect me to clock them on their sources. Isn’t that your job since you are arguing with them?

@seawulf575 You’re a sad little thing who thinks whites like you are being discriminated here in the US.

@Dutchess_III well gee…a wikipedia page. Oh wait! what’s this!?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation

Gee…the heritage foundation must be a good source too. Yet you manage to act like it isn’t. The only difference is the end of the ideological spectrum they are on. So to you, it is okay to spew whatever from the left but not from the right. MAYBE the problem is not the source. MAYBE the problem is you.

I expect you to clock them because that is EXACTLY how you jumped into this conversation with me. You jump in to lecture me about sources. Not the actual information, just the source. And the only thing you see is that it is a conservative outlet. You have yet to explain why that makes it unreliable. You really have yet to justify your later comments about the content (after I shamed you into looking at it). If all you want to do is jump in and attack me, you can damn sure bet I will jump back at you. Especially when you are so hypocritical about your attack.
Maybe in the future you will think 5 or 6 times before jumping at me about something that is your hypocrisy trying to come out.

@mazingerz88 you really are a racist, aren’t you? All you can focus on is race. When has race been any part of this discussion? Please, feel free. Scroll back up and see anywhere that I made a racist statement.
Here’s the thing, sonny, when you throw the race card and there is nothing racist going on, you come off as the one obsessed with racism. And you come off as a racist.

Bitter, bitter @seawulf575…just so full of bitterness you just can’t help lashing out. I pity you.

I wonder if that Maxim model isn’t white you would have asked this question.

@mazingerz88 the same treatment has been done to Stacy Dash who is black. I have spoken out against that as well. Any other racist questions? You do have the focus of a KKK clansman.

Oh, man. I came across this question late. I was going to complement everybody on how civil they were being.

And then I scrolled down.

I didn’t read the answers above. Real news it shouldn’t matter what the reporters’ political affiliation is, but very little of the news programming today is actually fair and balanced journalism. I don’t know about now, but back in the day journalists with ABC and the other big networks had as part of their contract an agreement not to give personal views while reporting.

On talk shows and these political shows sure political affiliation and leanings matter if they are giving their opinions and if they are inviting guests to speak.

@JLeslie thanks. I was specifically trying to find why political opinions would matter towards getting things like modeling gigs or movie roles. I can’t understand that at all, except as a propaganda effort. If you have a political view, you don’t want to give someone with a differing opinion a chance at fame because they might start airing their views…that sort of thing.

@seawulf575 Wikipedia was the first place I went to research The Heritage. When I responded I copied and pasted the first line in the Wikipedia page. Right off the bat it says it’s a conservative organization, which tells me it is biased and I wouldn’t use it in any debate.

Not sure what you were expecting to see, or what is wrong with a Wikipedia page. It’s called research. Something you could learn.

@seawulf575 I think it shouldn’t matter in most instances, but at the extreme I can understand why it would matter, and I am ok with it. People who are very extreme politically probably have other things about them that would be very offensive to the opposing side. It would have to be very extreme though, blatant, otherwise I think politics shouldn’t even come up. Just that the politics comes up would mean to me they are possibly too political. Let’s take a model, if she chooses to speak out publicly, which she has a right to do of course, then her face, her persona is now associated with that. She is a public figure, so it matters. at an office job most places of business don’t want politics discussed, and so politics is a non-issue. There are different pitfalls and expectations depending on the industry you work in.

For sure the Heritage is conservative, no getting around it.

@seawulf575 You really don’t understand the meaning of racism. You look a fool for calling @mazingerz88 racist.

@Dutchess_III And when I researched ThinkProgress, I first came across a Wiki page as well and it said it was a Progressive website, pushing Liberal policies. So my point to you is that when someone uses a blatantly biased website, you don’t care so long as it is biased to the left. So it isn’t actually the bias that bothers you, it is the direction of that bias. That makes you a hypocrite.

@JLeslie that’s sort of where I am with this. In any business, you have the right to have a certain decorum from your employees. But to discriminate against them because of their political beliefs, even when they aren’t being obnoxious about it, is wrong. When someone feels they have to hide that they are a Republican…you are into a discriminatory and even possibly illegal atmosphere. And that seems to permeate through the entire entertainment industry. For instance…how many Hollywood types attended the pink pussy hat marches? How many of them spoke out and some of them actually supported violence against the right. Yet it isn’t held against them in their professional life. So why saying you voted for Trump such a horrible thing for your career?

@Stache :

Racism:

a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

When @mazingerz88 says “You’re a sad little thing who thinks whites like you are being discriminated here in the US.”, he is making discriminatory statements against whites. When you make statements about people based on their skin color, other than a physical description, you in the racism realm. Those that hold these views are racists. The fact that you don’t want to admit that fact because you probably adhere to these same feelings, doesn’t change a fact.
If @mazingerz88 (and yourself) don’t want to be thought of this way, don’t act this way.

@seawulf575 It said it was a progressive site. It didn’t say a thing about being liberal.

“ThinkProgress is an American news website. It is a project of the Center for American Progress Action Fund (CAP Action), a progressive public policy research and advocacy organization.

I find it hilarious that I used a Wiki page to bolster my argument, and you jump on it like, “Well, I can do that TOO!” Like…it was some sort of secret and you puzzled out the secret code. ” well gee…a wikipedia page. Oh wait! what’s this!?!”

As I said, though, my debate is not with @LostInParadise, who used the Think Progress source. If you think their source is bogus, take it up with them, not me.

@seawulf575 Like I said, you don’t understand the meaning.

Here’s a little lesson for you. https://thebodyisnotanapology.com/magazine/6-ways-well-intentioned-people-whitesplain-racism-and-why-they-need-to-stop/

@seawulf575 Being a Democrat and working for a pharmaceutical company you are best to keep that under wraps. Being an atheist in the Bible Belt sometimes is best unsaid. Being gay in the military until recently had to be kept hidden. It goes both ways. It’s not like just conservatives and Republicans have troubles.

Patricia Heaton hasn’t had trouble working, she’s politically conservative. There are many others. Tom Selleck, Kelsey Grammar, to name a couple more.

@JLeslie all of those are good examples and highlight what I am saying. Why should it matter if I was an atheist in the bible belt if it has absolutely nothing to do with my job? Unless I am starting arguments about it at a regular basis. But there are policies about not preaching at work anyway. BTW, I live in the bible belt and have worked with several atheists….it didn’t matter at all. One I had no idea he was at all until he said it. And he didn’t say it in hushed tones, it had just never come up in conversation before.
But things like age, race, sex, religion are all addressed specifically by laws. Political views are not really as well spelled out. But the others were put into law because they shouldn’t have any basis on your work or a decision to hire you. If political views are being used that way, it is still discrimination.

@Stache that reads more like a justification for being racist against whites than anything else. It basically is saying “you’re white so you are bad, own it.” It is trying to justify when someone calls you a racist just because you are white. If you argue, you are trying to “whitesplain”. They are making a judgement on you based solely on your skin color and you don’t see that as racist? Maybe you need better glasses. or less kool-aid.

@seawulf575 It’s descrimination, but if it affects your business there might be a case for it being deemed justifiable. This is a very tricky legal point. That’s why I said if someone works in the public eye they might need to worry about their image, risking being passed over for parts.

I lived in the Bible Belt for 8 years. I had friends who would “out” me that I was a Democrat. It was a thing with them. It didn’t affect me getting a job, but my employer didn’t know, so how do I know if someone would have passed me up? There was an assumption that white girl out in the burbs were Republicans where I lived. Although, where I worked there were plenty of minorities, so I feel pretty sure no one was thinking is this person a Republican or a Democrat when hiring.

Also, religion didn’t come up when hiring, but there was somewhat of an assumption that everyone was a Christian, or that you believed in God. If religion ever did come up at work I just said I was Jewish, or not religious, depending on the conversation. I let them assume I was a theist without specifically talking about the God stuff. In fact, in general, not only at work, I let people assume a lot of the time. It depends on the situation.

Going back to public figures, politicians in the Bible Belt actually run on “Christian values” talking about it in commercials on TV. I had never seen that before. A politician bringing religion into a campaign commercial like that. It was so odd, and a little troubling to me. I felt like, where am I? Anyway, people who respond positively to that, probably a portion of them will be negative if they find out a candidate is an atheist. We, the public, employ our politicians. So, in that case there is discrimination too. People who won’t vote for Mormons, Muslims, atheists, Jews, Catholics, etc. You’re not going to find many people who won’t vote for Protestants flat out, because that would mean not being able to vote in the majority of elections.

Regardless, if you don’t like @LostInParadise‘s source, take it up with them.

@seawulf575 You are either trolling or you are dense. You did exactly what the article read. You took offense instead of learning something.

@Stache And you did exactly what I said. Funny how that works, isn’t it? Maybe if you thought about what I said you wouldn’t be so predictable.

@seawulf575 A person isn’t racist for calling out racism. That’s not how it works. You are drinking Trump’s koolaide… https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/president-trump-tweets-spike-lee-racist-against-him-n975586

That comment, “Donald Trump accuses Spike Lee of ‘racist hit on your president’ ’”…what is up with the 3rd person reference? It’s like he’s 5 or 6 a creating some sort of playtime scenario with his friends.
“I’ll be president and you will be vice president. And you have to be nice to the president!”

@Dutchess_III “I’ll be president and you will be vice president. And you have to be nice to the president!” Where is that statement come from? I need a source. I don’t see it anywhere in the reference @Stache gave.

What are you talking about? Are you questioning whether trump accused Spike Lee of a ”racist hit on your president?”

Or are you questioning my personal opinion that talking in the 3rd person sounds like little kids playing house or something?

Oh! It was your own opinion. So you are making stuff up. Got it.

@Stache and people are racist just for being white. But that is what your other reference was saying. So apparently it is what you believe as well. And if you are calling all white people racist (as was your citation), that IS Racist.

1) Well, he actually accused Spike Lee of a “racist hit on your president.” (Do you want me to post another link to it?)

2) He actually spoke in the 3rd person, as he often does, and it’s very weird.

3) My opinion is my opinion.

But I give you credit for trying to figure out the difference between a fact and an opinion, and learning when it is logical to ask for a source and when it is not.

Omg, all I can do is laugh at this point. @seawulf575 is delusional. bahahaha

Yeah, all white people are racist. That’s what you got from my link? You need to brush up on your comprehension skills dude.

@Stache maybe you need a little yourself. When you post an article that says if someone calls a white person a racist and they deny it, they are “whitesplaining”, what would you call it? Basically, it’s a racist article. The fact you can’t see it says you, too, are a racist. And if you deny it, you are whitesplaining.

@Dutchess_III your source is not credible. It is an opinion piece. That proves nothing. Try again, honey.
As for your claim, you claimed he was acting like a 5 or 6 year old and said “I’ll be president and you will be vice president. And you have to be nice to the president!”. The quotations indicate he said it. Show me where. Or admit you are just making stuff up.

Man you are obtuse!

@Dutchess_III If you keep making stuff up, it makes it hard for people to take you seriously. When you do things like throw up an opinion page and try to pass that as fact, it makes you look foolish.

LOL! If you could point out my opinion “page” I would be amazed. But you can’t. Because there isn’t one.
I’m having a slow, boring day today, obviously.

You cited the BBC Magazine. It is nothing but an opinion piece. Sorry….it isn’t credible. Maybe you could come up with an actual news page that isn’t full of opinion passed as fact. But really, you are just digging yourself deeper defending such an unreliable piece.

The BBC article was not an opinion piece.

Sorry, when I read it, it came across as such. And I don’t view it as credible so you don’t get credit for that one. Isn’t that how it works? If I don’t view it as credible, it isn’t? That’s how you do it. So keep trying.

Well, that’s not exactly how it works, but you’re starting to get the hang of it.
If you were going to finish out your point you would explain why you don’t view it as credible.

You never do. You just don’t like Conservative citations so that is all it takes for you. I think that was an opinion piece so I don’t give it credibility. At least mine isn’t based on bias.

I don’t like liberal citations either.
If you use a “conservative citation” is most definitely IS based on bias. Maybe you don’t understand what “bias” means?

You don’t like liberal citations either. Except you ALWAYS give them a pass. So yes, you do like liberal citations. Trying to deny it when your actions go the other way every single time doesn’t give you credibility.

No, I do not give them a pass. Unless you consider the BBC and NPR to be “left leaning.”

You gave @LostInParadise a pass with ThinkProgress. so yes, you do give them a pass.

One more time. I said up front that ThinkProgress is leftist. I asked to consider their argument, just as I considered the argument of the Heritage Foundation, knowing that they are right leaning. I extended a courtesy to you and requested the same in turn. Next time I will know better.

I didn’t even know @LostInParadise posted a ThinkProgress article as a citation so I didn’t give them a “Pass.” I didn’t even read it. In fact, I don’t even know specifically what @LostInParadise‘s POV is on this question, except I respect them and assume it’s not stupidly right or ridiculously left.

I’m disappointed (as usual) with the discussion here, and feel it’s important to make certain points. Most important is the reaction of @KNOWITALL with my take on the model compelled to conceal her political leanings. It bothers me that people seeking to be objective and neutral here betray their inclinations through interpretations of what THEY THINK they read or hear. To understand what I mean, go back and read what I actually wrote, then conclude whether or not I called the woman an “empty headed bimbo”.

I’m on your side @stanleybmanly, but you did say ”The model should be more concerned that her assessment of Trump as an honest man might brand her the stereotypical empty headed bimbo notorious to her profession.” Here
I agree that for anyone to really LISTEN to trump, then declare him to be an honest man, they would have to be a special kind of stupid.

@stanleybmanly I certainly didn’t intend to bother you in any way lol, I try not to respond to several people here unless directly asked to, due to frequent misunderstandings.

I’ve always said I voted both parties in the past and lean right on some issues and left on others, so I certainly am not trying to conceal any political leanings. I don’t see the point, after seven years here on fluther, of trying to lie or conceal anything. That makes real communication very difficult, which is kind of the point to this site imo.

@Dutchess_III Thanks, that’s what I read as well.