Do you think some Republicans are hoping the Democrats are successful at forcing Trump to leave, or at minimum causing him to not run again?

Label me optimistic even delusional but I think most not just some Republicans want that to happen though they wouldn’t admit it openly.

I think a lot of Republicans would prefer to see Trump disappear rather than stand for re-election in 2020. And as Congressional investigations intensify and dig up ever more dirt, the need to distance themselves from the leper will grow ever more compelling.

First off, we need to define what “moderate democrat” means. It seems that a lot of people here on Fluther have a different definition.

To me, moderate democrat basically means “I’m liberal on social issues, but I agree with the republicans to screw over the poor and middle class.”

So no, a moderate democrat is a terrible choice for the nominee in my opinion.

What @rockfan said, ‘moderate democrat’ is useless to everyone but their corporate backers.
Pres Clinton managed to balance the federal budget but he f**d up the financial regulation that had helped the U.S. economy be pretty stable since the Great Depression, and he broke ‘welfare as we know it’, accelerating the decline of social services that the most desperate among us need the most.
Chuck Schumer is pretty good on social issues but is also totally in bed with “Wall St” and their exploitive/parasitic wealth extraction activities.
A ‘moderate Democrat’ is not much of a win over most Republican candidates.

I think that could be true for non-Trump Reps, constitutionalists and even Rep moderates. It’s true imo, that its hard for some Reps to even consider voting Dem at this point, as well, due to recent abortion issues, Cohen, etc…

Its difficult for the average person to keep on top of innuendo vs fact, the media bias, and since Dems have clouded the waters, its hard to say if some Reps will bull up and vote for any Rep, or just vote Trump since Dems hate him so much.

I will stick with my long term analysis that the last few years of constant negativity have decreased the chances for a Dem in 2020. Its a big gamble, the us against them tactics.

A lot of Republicans recognized at the outset that it was a bad idea to have so volatile an explosive at the head of their parade. The more astute members of the obtuse crowd understood that the day would arrive when the piper must be paid. But once it became clear that despite any rhetoric to the contrary, Trump would adhere to those Republican “values” which matter—tax breaks for the rich, dogging Obamacare, choking off civil rights, etc, everybody fell in line. Though the arrival of the Mueller probe promised certain doom for any figure with the sleaze factor of Trump, the Republican hope was with the proceedings being secret, the public disgrace of their leader might be manageable as long as they controlled both chambers of the Congress. But with the loss of the House the lid is off, and now the huge vault of horrors is open for relentless exposure. That vault is so chock full of sleazy revelations that the Democrats have material to feed perpetual committee investigations beyond whatever time Trump has left. Those investigations and their spectaular revelations will be well underway while all of Trump’s backers are up for re-election. And the taint from the overpowering stench will be inescapable.

As far as what do I mean by moderate. Meghan McCain and friends of mine are horrified by some of the bills being proposed and passed or not passed on abortion they are calling it infanticide since it focuses on late term, and I’m telling you the pro-life Republicans cannot listen to an explanation. They are hysterical about it. Meghan could not stop her rant, it was like a switch went off. A casual friend of mine shut down in a conversation with me, and I feel like things are permanently different between us. The Democrats pursuing these laws right now, and Republicans putting forth laws that Democrats won’t vote for is going to be the wedge that works.

Also, let’s drop the free tuition. Why not talk about reasonable tuition?

I just think we need to limit how many social programs we (Democrats) want to push this time around. Let’s make social security financially sound, let’s tweak Obamacare and go after the costs of healthcare, let’s lower the deficit.

It’s too much at once the very liberal side of the Democrats are asking for.

I consider myself moderate, and I’m not bought by corporations. I’m very liberal on social issues, and moderate on fiscal, and want the country to find some peace while moving in the right direction.

Meanwhile, this Q is not about me, or any other Democrat. This Q is just wondering about Republicans right now, and how they might be thinking.

Killing babies in the last trimester (I know that is illegal in America, unconstitutional, and a ridiculous statement by the right) and socializing more services in the country revs up the religious right like nothing else. They believe it is all against God. It’s like the country is going to hell if they allow it.

The constant wailing of Dems about Trump is becoming tiresome. The economy is doing great, trade is improving, and international affairs are are improving as well. It’s almost funny to hear folks like @stanleybmanly talking about the vault of horrors. I just don’t see it. The Dems are down to trying to exploit Stormy Daniels and when that fails they’ll be looking for unpaid parking tickets. If the Dems can make this about Identity politics and socialism, they’ll lose. If they try to make it about the economy, they’ll lose. @JLeslie at least tried to mention some real policies but none of the candidates have done anything other than offer free, free, free stuff.

I wish Trump was a little more articulate and that he didn’t tweet about every insult leveled at him but the actual policies he has implemented are working. I’m not ready to throw that away just because the Dems don’t like him. Nobody is going to jump ship for a Democratic candidate that offers only hate and free stuff.

@Jaxk If I’m hearing you correctly, you are fine with Trump running again, and will likely vote for him again. So, I assume you are not hoping another Republican is running next election. I’m not trying to say you are a Trumper or not, I’m only saying pertaining to my Q, you don’t have some sort of secret fantasy that the Democrats succeed in ousting him before the next election.

“Nobody is going to jump ship for a Democratic candidate that offers only hate and free stuff.”
yup.

I would vote for one that is more in line with what @JLeslie is describing.

@JLeslie – Yes you are right. I harbor no secret fantasy that Trump is removed from office. I see no Democratic candidate currently that would get my vote and if there is a Republican challenger to Trump, I would evaluate that. I know there are still some Never-Trumpers out there but I think their ranks are diminishing.

@JLeslie I completely reject your framing. I consider myself fiscally conservative as well. Social programs are INVESTMENTS in the people. For every $1 invested in a college education by the government for veterans, the government has received an additional $6.90 in increased tax revenues from that individual over their lifetimes. From a fiscally conservative standpoint, it’s crazy NOT to have tuition free college. Not to mention that college debt is crippling millennial ability to have disposable income that could otherwise be spent in the economy.

Medicare for all saves trillions and would yield better care, not to mention the financial benefits for small business owners, entrepreneurs, increased mobility in the job market, higher worker productivity, fewer bankruptcies, and making US companies more competitive internationally. The “radical” position is to maintain the status quo where we pay 2x what other countries do per capita, have worse care—all to subsidize middle-men who then bribe our politicians to justify their existence.

Raising the minimum wage increases the velocity of money which will have a major boost on the economy. It might produce modest inflation which will more than balance out from the economic benefits. The “radical” position is to keep having taxpayers subsidize some of the richest companies and families in the world like Wal-Mart instead of compelling them to pay a living wage.

Ignoring climate change to maintain short-term profits from certain private sectors in exchange for costing trillions in future damages, wars, medical problems, etc. is an incredibly “radical” position. The green new deal is the best approach from a fiscally conservative standpoint.

All of these policies I’ve mentioned are supported by well over 50% of the population in polls. That means they’re not “fringe,” “radical” or “far left.” In nearly every other developed country these policies are commonplace. The argument isn’t left vs. right it’s top vs. bottom and you’ll find that many Republicans at the bottom will sign on to a Democratic Socialist platform. Bernie Sanders for example has received donations from over 12,000 registered Republicans in the first week of his campaign.

Trying to court the Megan McCain vote at the expense of the populist base who simply aren’t going to turn out for an Amy Klobuchar type moderate policy of maintaining the status quo is a moronic strategic tradeoff. You might peel off a few, but there are plenty of voters like @KNOWITALL who still won’t vote Democrat, especially when the choice is between Republican and Republican-lite®. Just ask how well that strategy worked for HRC in 2016, or Claire McCaskill, Joe Donnelly, and Heidi Heitkamp in 2018.

Of course it’s possible. After all, Murphy’s Law is always in effect.

I doubt it. Support for Trump has become synonymous with support for the Republican party itself. I’m sure there are Republicans who would rather someone less controversial were president, but I don’t think most Republicans are upset with the way the country is running under his administration. Not liking Trump the person doesn’t mean Republicans are about to support a Democrat.

If the 2016 election was divisive and polarizing, this one is going to be the most divisive one yet.

@gorillapaws Correct, and although I know womens rights are at issue, I think it was horrible timing in NY and cheering, I think that alienated a lot of swing votes that could have been Dem.

@gorillapaws I’m for socialized medicine. I’m not sure Medicare for all is the best solution, but I’m fine with putting that in place for now, as long as a task force also seriously looks at the fraud. There is fraud in the private system too, so I’m not picking on government run healthcare specifically. I know I have doctors who commit fraud where I live. I’ve read studies saying Medicare has the most fraud of the social service we offer. I don’t doubt it for a second.

Free tuition is an investment, I could not agree more. But, I never hear Bernie or others talking about putting parameters on who gets it for free. I’m pretty sure countries like Germany track kids in secondary so that really it’s not all who are going to college. I need more detail. You know my dad went to school for free, and thank goodness he could. If he was born in Tupelo, MS instead of NYC, forget it. He has been paying back to the country hundreds of times what they invested in him. Moreover, I still want an entity to really look at why tuition is so hi at so many universities! Whether the government pays or the individual does, let’s make sure we aren’t getting ripped off.

I’m not trying to court anyone’s vote. Not any Republicans anyway. The question is only a curiosity about how some Republicans might be thinking. In the end, even the ones who feel open probably will still vote For Trump or maybe not vote. I know that.

@JLeslie “I never hear Bernie or others talking about putting parameters on who gets it for free.”

Why should we? Everyone gets K-12 for free. You still need good grades and test scores to gain admission to college and it’ll likely become even more competitive if public universities are tuition-free. That means we’re transitioning away from a money-based system into a merit-based system which will yield the best outcomes in our economy.

@gorillapaws Ok, so it’s just for public universities that are accredited and we still require admission controls? That part is good. Honestly, it sounded like a free for all, meaning everyone can get in. There are many city colleges where there is no real application process, anyone can sign up and take classes.

Also, when the money is free, the universities create classes and degrees and will change their standards for admissions. Don’t go thinking they have complete integrity, they don’t.

I’m with you on the basic ideas, I just am more skeptical about the implementation and abuse, because we are America, we aren’t Finland and Germany. Our culture here is a little different.

The United States Economy is the strongest economy in the world right now. The United States is the Number One exporter of oil. Remember when we used to buy oil from wealthy, Oil-rich Venezuela? In a world where socialism is collapsing in bloody, fiery riots, and Venezuela a wall to wall riot where its socialist government is shooting its own citizens who are fighting for their survival, we have the Left pushing socialism and radical changes involving the confiscation of wealth, elimination of the oil industry and gas-powered vehicles, and infanticide.

This is not late-term abortion as you said above, but the infanticide during the birthing process and the deprivation of life support or the outright killing of infants which survive a botched abortion, or are born during the abortion attempt,

The Left still has the media on their side. McCabe outlines in his book a definite coup attempt and the media treats him like a ‘patriot’ and hero.

Anyone with any sense will stand behind Trump. We are facing tyrannical changes. AOC is declaring herself “the boss” and threatening to keep records of any Democrat who does not vote the way she says. Read Animal Farm—she fits the role of The Pig in Animal Farm.

America is waking up, but the Media is still on the side of the left, no matter how tyrannical it goes.

@Yellowdog

Anyone remotely familiar with economics knows that another economic crash is just around the corner. The signs are all there, and they’re the same ones before the recession in 2008

@Yellowdog What are you talking about ? ? ?

Putin loves – - -“Anyone with any sense will stand behind Trump.”

The only things that matter to some Republicans are their agendas. Doesn’t matter who or what kind of a person ( or a piece of turd ) gets to lead them. Sad but true.

@JLeslie You also need good grades and test scores to continue with college. Anyone looking for a free handout to party all year and not study won’t last.

Who benefits or rather how does the country benefit when a college education leaves its recipient $60–100, 000 in debt?
Who is getting that money? Probably the greatest boon to the growth and avancement of the middle class in this country resulted from the G I bill. What sort of knuckleheaded population understands that we are all better off when everyone can read & write if only so they can get a job? Yet in an emvironment where a decent job requires a college education can’t make the connection that it should be free for the EXACT SAME REASON AS GRADE & HIGH SCHOOL.

@stanleybmanly The GI bill the people earned that through working/serving in our military, and they went to school in their 20’s or later. Attitudes can be very different when you are a little older than fresh out of high school. Some kids are very focused and study hard, some don’t. The soldiers could have been paid more rather than have the GI Bill. It’s essentually part of their pay. A perk like free medical care, no tax at the PX, free space A flights, cheap lodging, housing benefits, great pension, etc.

I guess kids will still be paying for housing, books, and food in this free tuition scenario, is that right?

@Yellowdog You can’t kill a 3rd trimester baby. The Supreme Court ruled not very many years ago that you can’t abort a viable fetus and although viability is a blurry line, I think the rule is 24 weeks. My pro-life friend works in the neonatal intensive care unit, and she says she would never try to save some of the babies, but the parents insist, and now the right wing is essentially pushing for the government to insist and take the choice out of the parents and doctors. These aren’t abortions, they are early labor or mothers who had their lives in danger and the pregnancy was terminated early. The newborns that are extremely young, they get tortured with medical procedures, and then they die, or are so disabled they live in misery, and so do the parents. At the same time, many of the premies do great, but it isn’t the ones born at 21 weeks. If your baby was born in the early part of the 5th month, do you want to be able to choose to make the baby confortable until it dies? Or, do you want the government to insist every possibility be exhausted to keep it alive? This isn’t just about abortions, this is about more than that in my opinion.

One of the bills Republicans are upset about right now was that a doctor would have to transport an aborted fetus born alive to a hospital. Right now the law is already that a fetus born alive from an abortion (extremely rare) is to be saved, it’s already the law. Sometimes immediate transport might be worse for the fetus. If you watch The View, Sunny is pro-life, Catholic, and her sister is an OBGYN. She tries to explain it, but Meghan wouldn’t even listen. Here’s a link, I wish I had video, because the transcript does not convey to Democrats the level of horror among Republicans. https://www.dailywire.com/news/43991/watch-meghan-mccain-rips-view-co-hosts-infanticide-amanda-prestigiacomo

I don’t really understand how late-term is being used? What is late-term? How many weeks is that? Are people aborting in the 3rd trimester and killing those babies that are otherwise healthy? I don’t see how that is happening. I don’t know anyone ok with that. It would be easy to call terminating a pregnancy early an abortion, that certainly goes on, but in the 8th month that’s an early delivery, not an abortion. Are they using those statistics and presenting them as abortions? I don’t trust anything the religious right says right now regarding statistics on the topic, or how they spin this. I also think Democrats need to not try to pass bills when laws are already in place.

“Causing him to not run again?” Is he that smart? I think he’s too egotistical to not run again.

Maybe so. But what will happen to this strong economy (the strongest in the world), national security, law enforcement, and foreign policy if he doesn’t?

I think many have not considered the terror they would feel within just six to eight weeks if we lost these things because AOC or Bernie or someone else who has never even had a real job was at the Helm. Yet you fight for it every day.

@Yellowdog “this strong economy (the strongest in the world)”

How are you defining this? On many metrics the US is nowhere near the strongest economy in the world.

@Yellowdog I just keep reading that last post of yours over and over.

@JLeslie So you make college free for any qualified individual after 2 years of public service. Two years for the kids to mature to 20 and acquire lessons in civic duties.

The first two years of college is already free in my state.