Should I say something to someone, or just let it go?

I’d give her the sheets and let her knock herself out.

I had that happen many years ago, General manager didn’t believe my computer generated work in process (WIP) parts count.

The count I had was 102,015 pieces of WIP on the shop floor, General manager had one of the supervisors go home with multi-page delivery schedule report (had WIP in one column) and using adding machine at home one night added all 900+ items. He got 102,030 !!!

Crazy! They just don’t trust it. They don’t understand.

@jca2 yep. I can see her with her little hand calculator going over the same ground. I caught 2 errors in the original logs.
SMH.

@Dutchess_lll: Unrelated, but I’m curious if they ever build houses for people and the people don’t put in their hours. I wonder what would happen then.

They get passed over.

Oh, ok so the house is not there’s until they do the hours. I thought they get approved and then they have to put in the hours. I never knew anybody who got a HH house so I had no clue how it worked.

I would suggest bringing it up at a board meeting but not mentioning anyone by name. just ask if you can be an agenda item to show the board how you are recording the logs in a spreadsheet and ask if anyone has any questions about how to read them. That would be a non-confrontational but potentially effective way to handle the problem. If she continues to want to manually go over them, I would probably stop making the spreadsheets.

or to add to what @janbb just wrote, you could say a few sentences in a very basic way, like “for anyone who is not familiar with Excel spreadsheets, I enter the data and then the computer adds it up automatically. so this eliminates the need for anybody to use a calculator and add it up on their own.” Something really basic which 90% of the people will already understand, but it will break it down so that even she will comprehend it.

Lord. Thinking of speaking up kind of makes me queasy!

I mean if the girl deliberately did nothing but sit on her ass, the 340 hours of her dad must count toward something. But let the woman have her way. It avoids her starting other more serious mischief. In fact until the house is ready for the lady & her dad, why not suggest that the busybody check out the hours again?

She’s been with Habitat for years so….

I’d just tell her “great, always good to do a second check, let me know if your numbers jibe with mine, and if you need me to change the spreadsheet in any way.” I’d also ask her if she had trouble opening the hand written logs, and if she did you could try to save them in another format.

Basically, I’d humor, do my best to appear to want to be helpful and not challenging her authority, while also pointing out she is being redundant in the work.

I can do that! I was going to ask her if she came up with the same numbers too.

And hell, there may be a reason she actually need the original logs that I don’t know about.

^^Yeah, stay positive is where I try to keep my mindset. I thank people when they point out a mistake I made, or if they are trying to give me a heads up. I try to not be defensive at work. Especially, if overall the person is happy with my work, I try to stay in the place of they are just trying to help. Or, might have a reason I don’t understand, just like you just pointed out.

I sent her an email asking if her hours matched mine, and also mentioned that both Jennifer and her dad had shorted themselves by an hour. Haven’t heard back.
This kind of stuff makes me nervous. I always end up getting in trouble one way or the other. You know, in her email she said, “I think Jen is close to her 100 hours, but I’ll find out after I pick up her originals.”
The freakin’ data is RIGHT THERE! Right on front of her! Jen got her 100!
Can she just not read where it says, at the top and at the bottom, “Total hours.” ?

Maybe it is me. Does this look overly complicated to you guys?

I like your chart, @Dutchess_III.

Thank you. I think it’s pretty self explanatory.

Oh, also, I don’t know if I told you guys this, but I also sent it to the President so if she brings it up to him he can clarify for her.

On 10/29 there were 25 hours logged?

Also, you don’t clearly indicate the hours in column F are the week/log totals, and typically the grand total is at the bottom, you have it at the top. Not bad to have it in both places, maybe you do, I can’t see the bottom of the sheet.

That’s 2.5. The pic is a bit harder to read than the actual log.

Plus, I’m on my phone and don’t have my glasses. :)

LOL! Yeah and she logged 45 hours on 11/27! :D

The log is self explanatory to me, but maybe she needs some of the things I mentioned. I work in spreadsheets constantly, I’m also a math person, maybe she is neither.

Rick came up with a good suggestion. Take my lap top to the next meeting, pull up the spread sheet and ask her if she had any suggestions for improving it.

Can you print the spreadsheet? Or, is it too small on the printed page. Maybe computer screens make her nervous. If it is printed she can mark it up with the changes she might want you to make. Bring the computer too. You can fix it right there.

Of course I could print it. But wouldn’t that defeat the entire purpose?

I found it odd that she said, “Thank you for keeping track of Jen’s hours on a spreadsheet. That is really a good idea. ” She knows enough to call it a spreadsheet, but what is so special about keeping track of the hours in Excel that it’s a “good idea”? Have they never done it this way in all of these decades? It’s really confusing to me.

I don’t think printing it defeats the purpose, but I also probably don’t know all of the details of the situation or work.

At my job, we print Excel sheets all the time. We use them for all sorts of things, address lists, ticket sales for events, etc.

Wow. I sent her an email yesterday asking if her numbers matched mine. Today I got, from her,
”I haven’t checked the numbers. What figure do you now have for Sam’s hours at the house? Thanks”

I guess I do need to print it out for her, but printing it means you lose the links to the copies of the logs. Plus I’m out of ink. :/

I am literally about to start beating my head on the wall.

In response to her email asking for the hours I said,
I have 100 hours for Jennifer, and 284.5 for her Dad.

She just sent, “How many hours do you have for Jennifer alone?”

Lol. I understand your frustration.

Just respond wth only Jennifer’s information.

Maybe she is clarifying.

I sometimes go back and forth 5 times trying to make sure I understand what a reporter is telling me.

Well I did tell her that Jennifer had 100 hours alone, of course. She maybe “just clarifying,” but taken in conjunction with everything else, I think she’s mainly whacky.
I almost asked if she wanted me to run the spreadsheets by her house….I don’t know if I should ask her that or not.

Maybe she’s astounded that the dad could possibly have such a high number and she wants to double check that she’s not mistaken.

Well, she is required to have 100 hours just by herself.

She either missed the obvious that you have already told her about the 100 hours or is deliberately asking you to repeat the declaration in a stand alone document. To discover which, why not reply: “I listed her hours in the previous email.”

I’m just left with this nagging feeling that I’ve done something wrong but I have no idea what. I don’t want to rock to boat or risk pissing her off.
If I could state the obvious it would be “I listed her hours in the previous email AND in the log which I emailed to you, AND she kept track of her own hours in her hand written logs (which she has because she made a point of going to pick them up) which I also emailed you copies of, AND she shorted herself by one hour, but I caught it and corrected it.”

I’m just going to throw this out there, FWIW. I think everyone at Habitat is pleased with the work I’m doing. However, a couple of meetings ago, on of the board members gave a bit of a speech about “differences of opinion,” and I got the feeling it was somehow directed at me. I don’t know why, since I had not had a difference of opinion with anyone (until now, but they don’t know that.) He kept looking at me pointedly.
Maybe he was trying to warn me? As far as I know I’m the only board member who has to “report” to this flaky gal.
She seems like the opinionated, combative type, too.

@Dutchess_III Did they only use the hand written before you were hired?

I do not know. They haven’t really given me much direction about anything.
To me, using a spreadsheet seems like the most obvious thing in the world. It kind of took me aback when she said it was a “good idea,” like they never thought of it.
I just don’t know how to proceed.

@Dutchess_III I think bring the print out of your spreadsheet so they can see it all nice and typed up. I’m assuming the meeting is more than just with your boss. Maybe they feel
It’s double work being done and unnecessary?

I will print it out and bring it to the next meeting.
What is double work and unnecessary? It’s my job to log her hours.

I mean, maybe they don’t understand what you have been doing by putting the information in the spreadsheet. That it’s in lieu of handwriting it. I could be completely wrong.

That’s what I am afraid of. And people tend to get defensive when they don’t understand.

As I said, I sent a copy to the president and he’s a younger guy. He is in administration at our local college, so I’m sure he understands.
I started to send her another email asking if she wanted me to run hard copies over to her house…..but then I thought that might sound condescending too. Jesus. She can print them off herself, right? But I don’t know if she realizes that. If she does know it, it would be condescending. If she doesn’t know she can print them, then it would be a good idea.

I hate shit like this, trying to second guess what crazy people are thinking.

Yeah, I wouldn’t ask her about running hard copies to her house. I think your judgement is good there.

I deal with very similar things in my job at times. I won’t bore you with examples, but let’s just say I get it.

You can bore me. It’s fine. Lord knows I bored y’all long enough with this! Thanks for letting me vent.

Sometimes I’m probably the one who seems to be asking ridiculous questions, sometimes I feel like banging my head against a wall, and sometimes the multiple questions are appreciated by both parties. Sometimes I miss something in a spreadsheet right in front of my eyes just because I didn’t scroll up it down or over enough.

My boss handles a lot of emails, so I try to not email her too much. She also is extremely cooperative with our customers, to the point that she doesn’t seem to ask for things that could make her life easier, which in turn would be making my work easier and faster.

Like, my boss told me I had to use the invoice form of this one particular vendor, that we couldn’t use our own. Their firm is in word! Which is ridiculous. We have multiple stories we do for them, so the form does not calculate the subtotals and totals like excel would. Worse, I have to put everything into quickbooks (QB), so it’s better if I just enter everything in QB and just crest an invoice automatically in that program. For over a year I’ve been doing this duplicate work, and finally, I figured screw it, and asked the accounting department for that customer if I could send them either their same form in excel or as a pdf, or an invoice from QB in pdf, and the reply was, “sure.” WTH?! My boss was probably given the other form, and just assumed that was all they would accept. My husband is like this, so maybe that’s why it makes me even more batty than it should. He won’t bother to ask a question to make his life easier. At the same time, he doesn’t have much patience for questions from others.

Sometimes I go round and round with 20 emails back and forth to get all the information for payment transfers. Reporters give me theit information, but don’t put the zip code, or assume I know the currency and don’t answer that question, which I plainly ask in the list of questions. Or, don’t put their country, I don’t always know the country by the city name. Or, they have three names and I have to ask if it’s a middle name, or a last name, etc. Or, give me all their info and then I can’t transfer to that country.

One time the country was not on the banned list, but it wasn’t working. Some countries I can’t transfer to like Iraq, South Sudan, Zimbabwe, and more recently Ukraine. Anyway, this time the country was not on the banned list. So, I call the transfer company and they say no you can’t transfer there online. Then it occurs to mean few hours later that she specifically said online, so I dig up an old email and send the request via email to a liaison at the transfer company who had helped me before. I send an email saying the country is not on the banned list etc, and he does the transfer for me. So, that woman on the phone didn’t think to say, you can’t do it online, but we can execute it for you if you write in an email.

Whole bunches of situations that waste a tremendous amount of time that feel like I’m going in circles.

Not to mention I deal with some people who speak English as a second language, and some who speak English as their first language but are in Europe or Africa, so there are some differences, and all sorts of room for misinterpreting each other. Although, miscommunucation happens rarely, because we do all of this clarification. After all, they are journalists so they understand basic problems with communication, and generally are patient. Plus, mostly they are incredible happy and appreciative across email, which is quite lovely, and I try to be the same for them. Especially the reporters from African countries, they are so nice, you feel them smile in their words.

It’s not like a constant thing that annoys me. Mostly I just do my work and don’t have anyone over my shoulder. I know most everyone I deal with is happy with my work. My boss tells me that they tell her.

I feel your pain!
Do you hear “But this is the way we’ve always done it!” much?

@Dutchess_III. No. I don’t hear that much in this job. We, my company, are actually really good compared to other companies. My boss is a childhood friend of mine, and I think she is very grateful to have someone she trusts. Trusts as in I have full control of her bank accounts, and I’m overall competent, even if I might frustrate her here and there. She is thrilled to not have to do payments anymore, and her customers give me compliments, because I’m extremely accommodating. It’s different than your situation. You are dealing with someone who doesn’t seem to appreciate the work you have done, because she doesn’t understand you did a great thing putting it on a spreadsheet. Mine is more, The appreciate my work, but the minutiae can be annoying.

To be fair I haven’t heard that at Habitat, but I have heard it elsewhere. Some people just seem to hate change. I don’t know why.

So I got an email today that was sent out to everyone. The gal made a point of saying she’d gone out and picked the girl’s hours up, added them up, and said she exceeded the 300 hours that was required. I don’t know if the others are left with the impression that I didn’t do my job or what, but I’m glad I CCd the president on the spread sheet

I sent an email to her and the president saying “I was wondering if I was supposed to physically pick up Jennifer’s original hours logs, instead of just taking pictures and attaching them to the spread sheet? If so, was I supposed to turn them over to someone?”

^^Let us know what they respond. I do think you are in a difficult situation. Understandably frustrating and unnerving for you.

I will. Thanks.

So today I get an email in response to the one I sent above

She said ”I got all of Sam’s original log sheets a week or so ago. I sent the spreadsheet in two weeks ago, with the logs attached. Usually they are all turned in to me when we start the loan process. I got them early (??????) because I wanted to verify that Jen has her required 100 hours on the house only, not a total of 100 hours. You can turn the remaining original sheets to me when the loan process starts.”
I told her TWO TIMES that Jen had her 100 on THE HOUSE ONLY.

Here is the reply I have in place, but I’m not going to send it until you give me your opinion…
I don’t have any of her original logs, or Tim’s. I didn’t know I needed to get them and turn them in to you. I have pictures of them that are incorporated into the spreadsheet I sent a couple of weeks ago.
For example, below is a copy of her main log, which you should have now. If you need me to send copies of the rest for your electronic files, just let me know.
Do you have Tim’s logs too? He has a total of 284.5 himself.

I would say “Hello ______, Jennifer still has her original log sheets. She sent me copies, which I attached to the Excel sheet I did for you, along with her father’s.”

Short and to the point, without any extra details. This way, you’re not offering to get the sheets, you’re explaining what you have and where what she needs can be found.

Jennifer doesn’t have the sheets. The goofy lady picked them up last week, “early” she said, even though I sent the copies two weeks ago. I just offered to email the photocopies I have.

Thanks for the edit suggestion. I’ll pare it down.

If it’s going to be like this with every family I’m supposed to have certain duties for, I don’t know what I’m going to do!
And next thing you know I’ll get in trouble for not doing what I’m supposed to be doing because goofy lady does not understand computers.

I would think if you’re volunteering, “trouble” is not something that you’d get into, at least not like trouble when you’re getting paid. Hopefully they’re gracious and thankful for all of their volunteers.

I mean that they will be unhappy with me. They are giving me virtually no real direction, but this goofy lady acts like I should just know these things. No one told me what to do with the logs, so I did what I thought was the logical thing – Created a spreadsheet and checked her numbers, then sent it all on, along with copies of the log. Was that the wrong thing to do?
Now I’m getting the feeling that goofy lady is telling people I’m not doing my job.

@Dutchess III I’m sure you’ve already mulled to distraction your history of previous dealings with this woman. We all have our eccentricities, but it appears you have sufficient grounds to suspect cognitive slippage to an extent readily verifiable through minimal (and tactful) snooping. You should first determine whether others in your group are experiencing similar difficulties in dealing with her. I don’t need to tell you how gingerly you must arrange to broach the topic, but the odds are that if others are going through this, you should receive a reaction of relieved exhalation long before any requirement of flagrant accusation. The down side of course in bringing this up is that people will look to YOU for leadership in seeking the remedy.

I kind of wondered about that last part…maybe they have been looking to replace her, and I might be it…..

I also think her elevator does not go all the way to the top. It’s like something is mentally not right.

I would write more or less what I have below, I would CC someone who is appropriate to CC, or even BCC if you think that is better, and I would write it spaced as I did, not one big paragraph. Here it is:

Ok, great! I’m glad your numbers agreed with mine.

Were my spreadsheets helpful? I was hoping the spreadsheets would make it easier for you, and you wouldn’t have to add everything by hand.

I don’t have any of the originals I didn’t know you wanted to me to pick them up. I have the photo of the originals attached to the email, will that be sufficient?

I have a feeling that with that disturbingly chipper attitude of yours, you lack the prudence to spurn the thankless burdens accompanying voluntary leadership. You have unquestionably been saddled with leadership before, yet returned to your stall free from the indelible lessons branding me on assuming leadership responsibilies minus the concomitant renumerative compensations.

I cc’d the president.

And I have told her those things @JLeslie. She simply does not understand, but she’s phrasing it as though I’m the one who doesn’t understand. Up above someone suggested I take my lap top to the next meeting and show it to her….but again, I’m afraid that would come off as condescending and insulting.

President is aware. Maybe I should just stay low for a while. Let me find out at the next office exactly what is expected of me regarding those damn logs.

Jesus Christ @stanleybmanly! You want me to publish your last couple of posts? I could sell them to Trump’s speech writers!

I think it was me who suggested bringing your lap top, or I suggested printing the sheets out, and someone else suggested bringing the laptop, I don’t remember.

Mind you, I purposely wrote questions that are yes or no questions about whether the work you are doing is being appreciated. I would not volunteer to run around picking up originals, unless it isn’t out of your way. I would not go out of my way at all at this point if I were you.

Will the president be at the meeting?

He has been at all the meetings so far.

You know…I think I will print all that shit out and hand it to her at the next meeting. Of course, then she’ll say, “Why are you giving me this now? I needed it a long time ago.”

I think do it! Print it all. You can present it as printing it for the hard file. If she says that she needed it a long time ago it will be a perfect opportunity for you to say, “I sent it to you April 10th, I’m still not clear whether it was helpful to you or not?” You could add, “I felt it would save us a lot of time having the spreadsheets instead of adding everything by hand, but if you need the originals and to do it by hand anyway, maybe it’s not helpful.”

By the way, I think she could be saying to you everything checks out when she confirms over 100 hours. She might not be saying you didn’t tell her the amounts, she might just be saying she agrees with your work.

Dutchess III That’s what I mean by a hopelessly cheerful attitude. Just try to find anyone grinding out crap for Trump with any use for sarcasm or irony. But remember the infallible line from Dr. Zhivago “happy men don’t volunteer”

I’d cc the boss on all of the emails, so the boss can see that the woman has foggy thinking.

You didn’t like my answer when I suggested it way up there but the most effective way to deal with this is to bring it up in a non-combative way at a board meeting and just ask the whole group what the procedure should be for handling the logs. They may or may not like your way of doing it but at least it will save you the endless back and forth once you know. If you do plan to do this, you should ask the discussion to be on the agenda for the meeting.

I have served on many boards and getting into a power struggle with an existing member is not a productive way to handle a procedure.

I thought your answer was fine @janbb. I gave you a GA. All I said is it makes me queasy to think of doing more than asking them for their input. I will specifically ask what the procedure for logs is, but not bring up the spreadsheet.
I’ll think I’ll just ask the question and leave it at that.

A power struggle is exactly what I am trying to avoid. But damn. I’ve told her three times that Jen has 100 hours! It shows on the spreadsheet and she asked a direct question twice, and I answered twice.
But this email I got today makes sound like she had to figure it out herself.

@Dutchess_lll That sounds like a good plan.

Thanks.

I don’t know why it scares me to present something new.

When is the meeting? I don’t remember.

We have one once a month. I think April’s is next week. I’ll have to check.

That’s ok, no need to check, I didn’t realize it was every month. I’m very curious to know how it goes. I hope in the meeting you get some straight answers so you don’t have to stew about it going forward.

I told them I had a lot of stuff to donate to their yearly garage sale. I told them it included furniture. I asked if Habitat has a storage shed.
Goofy says she has a storage shed she owns.
I asked how many square feet she says 3,000 sq feet.
I said “Oh! That’s plenty of space.”
She asked how much I had and I said a couple of truck loads anyway.
We’ve spoken about it few times, trying to figure out a good time to meet, etc.
I’ve been loading up the truck.
So I emailed her and told her we’d be coming by on Saturday afternoon.
THEN she says “How much stuff do you have? If its more than half a truck load I’ll have to rearrange stuff.”
Shit shit shit.
Well I guess I rent a storage unit.

Write a “Memo for record” for all the times and info you produced, (when it was sent “Goofy”) and send it before the next meeting to all the attendees, including “Goofy” and the President, with copies of documents.

Had an event today and the President was there for a bit. When I had a moment I privately asked him if my spreadsheet was clear. He said he thought it was just fine. He had no problem reading it.
I said, “Well, Goofy didn’t seem to quite understand it,so I just wanted to be sure.” He just kind of nodded, started to say something, but didn’t and walked away. He wasn’t mad or anything, and came back later and sat by me just chatting. So I guess my bases are covered.

She really kind of a bitch though. Jennifer was the first “family” I was assigned to, and most everything was pretty much done by the time I came in in October so I was barely introduced to my new “job.”
We had a ground breaking for a new family last week. Today I asked Mike, who I discovered I can talk to easily and answers my question, what my responsibilities would be for the new family. Goofy was standing right there and she said, “What do you think your responsibilities will be?” Really snotty.
As it turns out I will not have the same responsibility for this new family that I had for Jen.

@Dutchess_III I think she is being competitive and protective of her role. She sees you as a threat.

Maybe. I honestly do not know. But you know, that would explain all the weird vibe I get from her, like the way she expects me to know things that I can’t possibly have known yet.
Hmmm.

OK. Our next meeting is tonight. I printed off the entire log, along with the pictures of the original logs. I’m going to give it to her saying, “I didn’t know if you needed this, but here it is.”
I will be curious to see if she even looks at it.

I handed them to her and said “Oh by the way I printed off the whole spreadsheet for you. I don’t know if it helps, but….”
She sounded sincere when she said “Oh! Thank you very much!”

Whoa…..got home on Monday to an email. She sent out a letter of resignation to the board. It’s stupid, but now I feel guilty. I’m SO GLAD I didn’t do anything above and beyond printing off the spreadsheet.

You don’t cause the Sun to come up or set; you’re there is see it.

Same with her resignation

Oh, I know that! It’s just a silly feeling I have. But I am glad I wasn’t more direct about my frustration with her, or I might actually have a reason to feel bad.

Did she give a reason for leaving?

No.

My guess would be that pressure unbeknownst to you from others on the board eased her out. The spreadsheet business was probably the unfortunate demonstration of tact and competence that lights you up for leadership. Brace yourself. You will want to have an answer ready, even if it’s “let me think about it.” But start thinking about it NOW. Politics—ugh!

Ugh.

Update. We had a meeting just for the family support committee last night. I asked if anyone else was as surprised at Grouchy resigning as I was. They agreed that it was quite sudden, but a couple of them said she had been upset over something that happened in the last 6 months. I said….“Was it ME?”
They all laughed and assured me it wasn’t me. It didn’t have anything to do with committee at all.
We talked a little more. Apparently she was quite unhappy with the way someone was handling something. I made the comment, “I get the feeling she really wants to do it ALL herself because she’s a freaking control freak….”
A lady at the end of the table nodded her head vigorously. I have a friend.
There is no chance that I can be named co-chair! I don’t have enough experience, thank God.

You ducked the bullet.