Is the summary of Mueller's report to be believed?

It will never end until there is a new president.
And then an analogous process will begin again driven by the loyal opposition.
I believe that this is how it is going to be for a generation

I believe it.

I believe it as well. Congratulations to both you and that dummy you worship.

Yep.

I don’t trust Barr and I don’t believe his summary. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/02/william-barr-son-in-law-white-house?verso=true

“While this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”-Robert Mueller

Ongoing investigations:
Southern District of NY
Easter District of NY
Eastern District of Virginia
United States District of Columbia
NYC District Attorneys Office
NY Attorney General
NJ Attorney General
Maryland Attorney General
DC Attorney General
CIA
United States Office of Special Council
House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence
Senate Select Committee on Intellligence
House Judiciary Committee
House Oversight Committee
House Financial Services Committee
House Ways and Means Committee

Don’t celebrate yet.

I’m with @josie.

I’ve been telling the Democrats to shut the hell up, but to of course investigate if there is cause to investigate. I feel vindicated. So many Democrats accuse me of being too sympathetic to Trump. That’s not it. It’s the circus, and opening ourselves up to criticism, and in my opinion helping to tip the scales to Trump being elected again.

I don’t mean we shouldn’t be reporting what’s happening, but we shouldn’t be saying things like, “this is it, we finally have him,” even before we know what is in the report or in the next report. The “news” droning on about it 24/7 for over 2 years. It’s the 24/7 that bothers me, and the cockiness.

I’ve always had faith that Mueller would do a good job. I think he is trustworthy and I accept his findings. I’d still like to see the full report however.

This is nonsense: “The left has staked their hopes on Mueller finding something to hang Trump with…”
There is so much malfeasance in broad daylight there are plenty of other ways to take down Trump. Witness the recent mid-terms…

I do believe it since I never put much stock in the claims. Any ‘sure bet’ should be met with skepticism. This cost a lot of money, so I hope the taxpayers dont forget at the polls.

I gladly accept the report. As I’ve mentioned before, I’m hoping NY will get Trump on tax fraud…

Well fancy that, just like I said, a big fuss over nothing.
The collective mass hysteria from the anti Trump lot will continue, must be hell for them :D

“The left has staked their hopes on Mueller finding something to hang Trump with and it didn’t do it”

Very few on the left thought this. “Centrist” liberals did, or neoliberals if you like. Most of the conspiracism and hysteria was whipped up for ratings for the big news channels. Some of it was wishful thinking.

Most left-wing journalists and commentators have been exasperated by Russiagate, and thought it mostly nonsense from the beginning. The end result has been to undermine the left, and help immunise Trump from more legitimate criticism and has made him look like a vindicated victim.

^ Additionally, the fact that the left was disinterested in Russiagate (other than what harm it was doing by rebooting the cold war, breaking the brains of centrists, propping up awful institutions like the FBI & CIA, keeping important issues out of the news cycles, and making a Trump re-election more likely) was used against us constantly. The number of times I have been accused of being a Russian bot on Twitter or supporting a “Kompromised” candidate is absurd.

I don’t know if liberals are going to accept it or not. But the evidence from the last couple of days isn’t promising.

@josie Would that it only lasts a generation! I fear this is the new state of American politics from here on out.

To answer the question, yes, I accept it. My view is more along the lines of @Kropotkin, although I do not identify as left-wing, I always saw this investigation as a way for Democrats to avoid answering the more important questions of why they lost the election. They needed to ascribe Trump’s victory to a foreign conspiracy because they can’t accept their methods aren’t working. And I do think it has undermined the left and the anti-Trump movement. Have fun with four more years of this joker.

Rather than read all the above, let me summarize.
Everyone agrees Trump belongs in jail.

See how easy it is to misrepresent what others say?

The report outlined Russian interference in the election. It is worrying that Trump does not appear to be at all concerned by this. The report also said that Trump behaved in a way that might be interpreted as obstruction of justice, and left it to Barr to decide on this. This is less than complete vindication.

The investigation has already led to 37 indictments or guilty pleas of people working for Donald Trump.

He must be a really pristine fellow, eh?

I don’t know if the Mueller report is to be believed and neither does any one else since no one knows what’s actually in it. Do I trust Barr, hell to the no. 4 page summary on a 2 year investigation? Pfft. It’s like a junior high school book report on 100 Years of Solitude.

@Zaku 13 of the indictments were Russians that had nothing to do with Trump. Trump is pristine in at least one aspect of his political career. No Russian collusion.

The never ending investigations and possible impeachment of Trump will hurt the country and the Democrats far more than it will Trump and the Republicans.

I am proud to see that at least some of my fellow jellies have the good sense to see truth, even when it does not mesh well with their likes or dislikes.

For those still in denial, binkies for anyone?

A great many humans would have gone into fetal position faced with what has been hurled at our president from day one; far less even.
I am proud and impressed he has not only survived this long, but never wavers at going forward each day with one of the most difficult jobs on the planet.

Mueller is playing a much smarter game than Trump will ever know. Saw this posted earlier. According to a new report from the New York Times. Mueller has farmed out federal indictments to 1) the SDNY, in Manhattan, 2) the EDNY, in Brooklyn, 3) the EDVA in Virginia, 4) the U.S. Attorney’s office in Los Angeles, 5) the U.S. Attorney’s office in Washington DC, 6) the DOJ National Security Division, and 7) the DOJ Criminal Division. So what is the take away from all this? Those who are familiar with Mueller’s investigation understand that “no more indictments from Mueller” doesn’t mean “no more indictments.” Recall how Mueller handed off the Cohen case to the U.S. Attorneys’ office for the SDNY, who sent Cohen to prison. As his own investigation ends, it becomes clear Mueller plans to handle all indictments/prosecutions resulting from his investigation through these seven federal prosecutorial entities. In other words, the people on Team Trump who are celebrating right now are merely suffering from a lack of understanding about the rule of law and how federal and state prosecutions work.”

The premature celebration is quite funny.

K

@Patty_Melt Trump is by all acounts, the laziest and most incompetent President in US history, who spends more time watching TV and playing golf than doing any actual work or trying to understand any of his responsibilities.

Just because “Russiagate” was ramped up by liberals still smarting from their chosen one, Hillary, losing in 2016, doesn’t excuse Trump from being an embarrassing opportunist and pathetic narcissist.

I accept the findings of the report because of my high regard for Mueller. My views on Trump as president have not changed.

@LostInParadise Obama knew of the “Russian interference” before the election was even held. His DoJ supposedly looked into it and he concluded, and put out to the people, that it was insignificant and that the results of the election would reflect the will of the people. So the previous president wasn’t worried about it either meaning, to me anyway, that it was such weak interference (as I have stated numerous times on these pages) that it did nothing. However, both Obama AND Trump have imposed sanctions against Russia for their interference and cyberattacks. Not sure what else you expect Trump to do that he hasn’t already done.
Also, on the Obstruction of Justice charge, I suggest you re-read what Barr wrote in his summary to Congress concerning this charge. Basically Mueller found a few things that might or might not be interpreted as obstruction of justice. Given that he had no solid evidence to push it to OoJ, he left it to the AG to determine. Barr and Rosenstein looked at the issues and the overall picture and determined that there would be no OoJ charges. For them to prosecute, they need to show beyond a reasonable doubt that the goal of Trump in whatever events were questioned was to block the investigation. When you tie that with the fact that the investigation was over something Trump knew was bogus, it makes no sense.

Obama might not have been aware of the extent of the Russian interference. He also faced the dilemma that any charges that he made might be dismissed as partisan and used by the GOP.. Mueller uncovered how much the Russians were involved, resulting in several indictments. The intelligence agencies agree that there is still a danger of even more serious interference, none of which fazes Trump, who.has a strangely chummy relationship with Putin, among other autocrats. He said that he takes Putin at his word that Putin was unaware of any Russian involvement in the election. Yeah, right.

As to obstruction of justice, there may be evidence of it, but not enough beyond reasonable doubt. The large number of meetings between Russian campaign workers certainly looks peculiar, even if we never find out for certain what was discussed.

It seems like Mueller felt the extent of the Russian interference was some ads on social media and the hacking of the DNC computers. We have had that discussion before that neither of those things was likely to have had any impact whatsoever. That is most likely why Obama didn’t feel there was any great threat to our election.
On the Obstruction charge, the way I interpreted the summary from Barr was that there were things that weren’t gross efforts at obstruction of justice, just things (like firing Comey for instance) that could be viewed as that, but there wasn’t enough evidence to say it was. So Mueller punted that political football back to Barr.

I will believe the full report, once it gets leaked.
The so-called summary by some untrustworthy Drumpf puppet is not worth the paper it was printed on.

According to Trump News Fox News, there is likely evidence, though not conclusive evidence, for both conspiracy and obstruction.

The one thing of which there can be little doubt is that Trump is in for unprecedented levels of investigation from here on out. For his defenders and detractors alike, the merciless airing out of the man’s dirty laundry is inevitable and no longer avoidable. While Mueller’s conclusion that Trump’s participation in the Russian effort to steer the election cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, the investigation pried open the vaults of slime footing of Trump and his empire. It’s exploration of those vaults which guarantee revelations aplenty to dog Trump from here to his deathbed and beyond. He is guaranteed the dubious distinction befitting our least qualified President as the most probed, investigated scandal ridden individual to ever take the oath of officer.

@stanleybmanly He has already pretty much surpassed most of the other presidents for his first two years when it comes to investigation. Now let me ask….why continue? All it is is political witch hunts that are wasting time, effort, and money that could all be used to better the country. He might have something in his personal or business life that you can get him on? So does everyone. Maybe from now on, every president we elect should go through constant investigation because we might find something! That is the attitude that is driving these investigations. And after the last two years, it should be time for congress to lay aside that game and start leading the country.

All Presidents do have their opposition and calls from that opposition to make their lives as difficult as can be arranged. So what is it about Trump that insures that his ride will be rougher than Obama or Bush? Have the Dems merely gotten meaner, or is he simply a fatter target, and if so why?

The fact it started before he was even sworn in. The fact they created a whole narrative as justification for a crime that never happened and that had no real evidence of having happened. The Dems were outraged that Hillary wasn’t elected. She ran a crappy campaign. But the accusations of voter fraud were rife against Trump. Remember the recount the three states were going to run? After Wisconsin recounted and Trump gained votes, the whole drive was dropped. Then it became the story of him “colluding” with Russia to “hack the election”. Calls for his impeachment started in December of 2016….a month before he was sworn in. No crime was actually cited other than his “collusion” which isn’t even a crime, and there was zero evidence of it. Now that we have wasted 22 months and, what? 30 million dollars? in an effort to find something, anything to be used against him, and nothing was found. So now the Dems want to dig into any and all aspects of his past to see if they can dig any dirt up at all. Again…there are no actual crimes being investigated, there investigations to see if they can find a crime. That is a witch hunt.
Tell me…which other president have we ever had that put up with this much crap in their first two years in office? Even Andrew Johnson made it 3 years before being charge with an impeachable offense. Bill Clinton was in his second term as was Nixon when all their problems started. This obsession with Trump is not healthy for the Dems of for the country. It is time to drop it.

Well good luck with that. Even Pelosi has figured out that it’s preferable that Trump remain unimpeached while the slime defining him can be gathered to slather on the Republican party et al. The narrative of a picked on Trump might fly were it not for all of those annoying indictments arising from Mueller’s work. Even then , the silly cries of persecution are going nowhere following the Benghazi show and the GOP’s open declaration of intransigence BEFORE Obama’s inauguration. But all of that aside: there has NEVER been a President sworn into office oozing so much visible pus. We’ve had noxious and toxic Presidents, but when it comes to Trump, “never hung poison on a fouler toad.”

Yes, I know…the indictments. You do understand that those indictments actually prove what I am saying, right? They weren’t crimes that were being investigated…they were crimes found during an investigation. And none of the indictments against any of the Americans had anything to do with the focus of the investigation. So the investigation, by those indictments, was nothing more than a fishing expedition to see what dirt could be gathered. In other words, a witch hunt. Mueller’s investigation (and any others the Dems want to launch) are all the same…they are investigations in search of a crime and not crimes that need to be investigated. That’s why the Dems want Trump to release his tax returns…so they can pore through them and try to find something…ANYTHING…they can turn into a negative. Not that they have any crimes they are using the tax returns to prove…they want to search for a crime. And that is why the Dems will lose the 2020 election. The only talking point they have is “Not Trump”. They have no plans, they have no visions. They are consumed with hate and that is all they have to offer. Oh! and the New Green Deal which would destroy the country. Yeah, that’s a platform to run on.

Consumed with hate? You have a President of the United States who amounts to little more than a cheap parody of some would be gangster. The man looks, talks and displays every mannerism common to a thug and couldn’t deliver a more convincing impersonation if the word “criminal” were emblazoned in neon letters across his wide behind. To pretend that there is nothing warranting a close look at Trump is beyond ridiculous, and as I said before, he really leaves his opposition no choice. He will not permit himself to go uninvestigated. He talks his way into unavoidable trouble. It isn’t the Democrats that provided our fool of a President.

“And that is why the Dems will lose the 2020 election. The only talking point they have is “Not Trump”. They have no plans, they have no visions. They are consumed with hate and that is all they have to offer.”

@seawulf575 You need to shop around and quit listening to the far-right talking points. Listen to the Democratic candidates. There is no hate coming from them at all. Quite the opposite.

@Stache I think you know absolutely nothing about me. I DO listen to Democratic candidates, which is exactly why I made that statement. Every one of them preaches from a position of “somebody else has more” which does nothing but stoke hatred. Take a look at their opinions. Warren wants reparations for blacks and Native Americans. This is pandering to minorities, saying that the evil white people owe them. Kamala Harris wants to make a minimum wage of $15 and hour and couches it as an effort to help the poor and middle class. Because we all know those evil rich people are just trying to screw them over. Unfortunately, it has been shown that increasing minimum wage like this costs jobs and hurts the poor and middle class the most. Bernie Sanders is amusing as well. I go to his campaign page and there is one sentence there as he tries to get you to join his cause: “No one candidate, not even the greatest candidate you could imagine, is capable of taking on Donald Trump and the billionaire class alone. There is only one way we win — and that is together. ” He manages to make a we/they thing about the rich and poor AND stokes the “Not Trump” angle as well. Most of the Dem contenders have vocally backed the New Green Deal which is a Progressive/Liberal wet dream. It is unrealistic, it would destroy the country, it would enslave the people. And they didn’t hesitate to jump on board that train.
Maybe you need to stop drinking the kool-aid and actually listen to what the candidates are saying and, more importantly, not saying. They are not actually putting forth ideas to fix problems. They are not proposing ideas that will make things better for all. None of the Dems seem to understand we are not a democracy, we are a republic, even. But every one of them is completely vocal about “not Trump” in their speeches.
See, your problem is that you, like your Dem heroes, create your own world, assign roles for others in it, and then apply your own views to them. As I said, you know nothing about me. You obviously never really listen to all my views and certainly make no effort to understand them. Yet your arrogance allows you to make gross assumptions about me which end up making you look like a fool.

“See, your problem is that you, like your Dem heroes, create your own world, assign roles for others in it, and then apply your own views to them. As I said, you know nothing about me. You obviously never really listen to all my views and certainly make no effort to understand them. Yet your arrogance allows you to make gross assumptions about me which end up making you look like a fool.”

I can say the exact same thing about you. Good day, sir.

@seawulf575 I’m not going to bother any longer with what I perceive as your shortcomings, but some of your irksome misperceptions must not be allowed to pass. Take for rxample your testimony on listening to Democratic candidates and pretending to pay attention. I can go through every one of your sentences, but the day is short. Let’s just stick to your crucial mischaracterization of Sanders position on the battle between rich and poor. A more accurate rendering of Sanders’ actual and loudly repeated complaint is that the battle is between the rich—-and EVERYONE ELSE. The distinction is so fundamental, that the only possible conclusion to be reached is that (as usual) you don’t know what you’re talking about.

@stanleybmanly I suspect that as much as you don’t like it, I pulled the statement from Sanders right off his campaign page. It stokes the division between rich and poor, plain and simply. It is a message of hatred. I know you don’t like to hear that, but it is a plain fact. AND he manages to work in Trump on the side he is against (the wealthy, even though he is one) so it is a “not Trump” view. There really is no other way to look at this. Take a moment…drop your liberal bias for 2 seconds and try…TRY…to be objective. That is where you always fall down…you cannot seemingly be objective.

“It stokes the division between rich and poor, plain and simply”
No, it illuminates that division and the fact that the division is vigorously being stoked by the people who already have more money than God.
If there weren’t such a huge division ALREADY of historic proportions between the super-rich and everyone else then you might be excused for the ignorant statement that Sanders is stoking a division.