What would our country be like if all government officials, from the President on down to the cops were atheists?

The same as we have now, probably. In fact, it’s likely that many/most government officials are atheists already and play up the Christian thing out of political necessity.

@Dutchess_III: “I think we’d see a lot more tolerance and compassion, for one.”

Why do you believe this?

I think that because it’s the Christian right who are rabidly opposed to same sex marriage, homosexuality, transgender folks, immigrants….basically anything that is different from their narrow world view. If their voice was basically lost, the world would be a kinder place for many people.

Not all Christians are right wingers.

@Dutchess_III – People are people. Look at the so-called “new Atheists” (who I admittedly gave way too much benefit of the doubt in the past). They are essentially the new “alt-right”. I’d rather have Mr. Rogers as a government representative than Bill Maher. The Christian Left is far more tolerant and compassionate than the atheist right-wing scientists.

I guess I don’t know what you’re talking about @hmmmmmm.

^ Well, for starters, Cornel West and Nina Turner are very strong Christians who I admire. Their religious belief drives them to honorable moral and political positions. I don’t care that they are Christians. But atheism doesn’t provide a moral framework for ethics. It’s just a lack of belief in a deity. It doesn’t guarantee anything other than disbelief. Therefore, it’s just a person with all his/her flaws.

And more importantly, if the current governmental and economic systems remained in place, it would be highly unlikely that anything noticeable would change if it were staffed with a bunch of non-believers. It would still be a brutal, violent, money-driven system.

If there were any evidence that a mere disbelief in god were sufficient to effect some kind of sweeping change, maybe I’d think otherwise.

It would be a more logical, down-to-Earth government. And the whole world would be as well off if everybody was like that or if there was no religion at all.

It would be interesting anyway.

People are just people, as you said. We have a lot of different reasons and motives for acting like assholes, I guess. Religion is just an excuse for some. They’d be the same without it.

^ amen :)

@Dutchess_III Like you said, “some.” Not all. Far less IMO, which couldn’t hurt…

I would like to see an experiment exploring this on a smaller scale.

You could look at places where all government leaders are atheists. Red China, the former U.S.S.R. North Korea, etc etc. and find out what is good about them and build from there.

All of our founding documents in the United States have a basis in at least a kind of “civil God religion” which is based on the Judeo- Christian and Masonic beliefs about God, providence, etc etc. so that would have to be re-written and a new basis found.

Think of the former U.S.S.R. or China or North Korea, but make them more tolerant and compassionate.

@Yellowdog . China, and Russia, attempt to curtail religion. But that’s just because religion was invented to control/manipulate people. Hard to control and manipulate people, who are already being controlled by religion…

North Korea’s leader is a “living god,” to it’s citizens. So that is a religious country.

In any case, all three examples you provided were not examples of a government with atheistic leadership, or government officials.

And your mentioning of the US’s founding documents leaves out the most relevant part to this discussion. That is, that our founding fathers made it crystal clear, that there should be a separation of religion and state. Other than quoting some of our founding father’s opinions on religion, it is far easier to conclude that the importance they placed on separating religion, from the government indicated that they were fully aware that religion should be excluded from the members of society’s most important roles…

More to the point of the question, there would still be greed, and emotion, in an atheist led nation. So, it wouldn’t magically be a completely peaceful, and unbiased place.
I do find it would likely be a vastly improved society, in almost every possible way. Admittedly, there would probably be some draw backs, although I can’t think of any…

Atheists are certainly intolerant to the point of forbidding believers to express any opinion on anything.

I would much rather have a government of agnostics. They are the most tolerant and don’t want to impose any sort of belief system on anyone.

I disagree. Myself, and all other atheists I know, could care less what opinions others express. The problem, is that most theists want their beliefs adhered to by non-believers, just as with believers. Regardless of how stupid I think one’s beliefs are, I never expect them to act according to my beliefs. It is that distinction, that makes ALL the difference.

@zenvelo that is not true.

Also, I’d like to take a moment to say that there are several Christian Jellies here, and in my life, who I respect and admire a great deal. They are wise and compassionate and I try to be more like them.
My point was that many of the greatest wrongs in this country are perpetuated by loud, rude, intolerant people who claim to know God’s will, which happens to be their will too. I think it’s dangerous when such closed minded people are also in positions of power. Betsy DeVoe for example.

@Dutchess_III

“I think it’s dangerous when such closed minded people are also in positions of power. Betsy DeVoe for example.”

Other examples I’d include are vice popular-vote-loser Pence and Torquemada.

@Dutchess_III Strident atheists like Bill Maher and the late Madeline Murray O’hair are as insufferable. I sure as hel don’t want them running the government. Their imposition of “no religion at all” would be as violative of the First Amendment as a County Clerk not issuing marriage licenses.

Yes—Madeline Murray O’Hair is a prime example.

Read some of the literature of The Atheist Manifesto or American Atheists. They are NOT humane, tolerant people.

YOU may be tolerant, @Dutchess_III but that has not been my experience with atheist organizations—who will remove the words of William Penn on a bench in Pennsylvania and replace it with something glorifying atheism or their organization.

What you want is a society like Star Trek, where there is multiculturalism but unity, and no religion but no atheism either.

I agree @Zenvelo. I would assume they’d leave the Constitutional right to religion alone. Even I’d take up arms if they tried to impose no religion allowed.

There was an atheist in Star Trek @Yellowdog…what was his name? Hue?

I have never known anyone who attempted to “glorify” atheism. Arguing the case against the existence of God is not glorifying anything.

I was referring, I guess, to a park bench donated by private citizens about a hundred years ago, with the quote from William Penn: If Men are not ruled by God, they will be ruled by Tyrants.” It was in a park named after William Penn, in Pennsylvania of course.

More recently, American Atheists complained that the bench with its quote had no place in a civic-funded park, even though it was funded by citizens who used the park, and American Atheists were successful getting it removed. The bench was replaced with a bench that said something like, “This bench courtesy of American Atheists”.

That was my reasoning behind calling it ‘glorifying atheism,’

The Penn quote probably was religious. But it was a famous historic quote,significant to the park and whom it was dedicated to, just as all the memorials and famous monuments in Washington have statements about God made by those memorialized. But there is no historic precedent for American Atheists in a park dedicated to William Penn.

It wasn’t glorifying atheism. It’s just graffiti, on top of graffiti…

I’ll tell you what I tell the wulf. Take your evidence to the nearest authority, and turn it in. I’ll await the heads rolling…

Religion belongs in a church.

That being said, I don’t care much for the attacks on preexisting, statues, and carvings, when the behavior does not spark any changes.

Thanks for writing all that, @MrGrimm888 you can be sure I’ll be taking it all to the banks. We can tear down all those statues. And when there is graffiti on top of graffiti we can take it all to par, because every true patriot knows, it gets very hard to read especially.

I’m looking for evidence to the nearest authority under hopes that heads will roll since I cannot prove that a crime did NOT occur. Withholding exculpatory evidences might be considered obstruction of justice.

Well, I don’t think the Penn bench was quite in the same league as the 10 commandments being in a court house, but technically, from a legal POV, the atheists were correct. I, personally, wouldn’t have cared a single bit if that bench had stayed.

Atheists, are America’s largest minority, that has absolutely no representation in the US government. These groups getting statues removed/added are the embryonic stage of a movement, such as the NAACP. Such things have roots, in people attacking the norm.

With the Trump administration, and his supporters, committing all out war on non-white/non-Christians, it is an important a time as ever to show that atheists won’t sit back and watch it happen.

We don’t need specific representation. Not all of us stand for the same things. I don’t know about you, but I don’t know what to do to fight that nasty man except to vote.

^“We don’t need specific representation.” Why not? Especially considering that the atheist population will likely grow in the coming years. There is a need to fight against attempts to make America an all out Christian nation.
Atheists have little to no representation, in almost any level of government, and no representation in the SCOTUS.

Replacing Trump, with another theist, won’t likely help us. Anyone would seem to be an improvement, but they would still not be taking the country away from mindsets with roots in the dark ages, or before…

We’re going to end up with (Christian) prayer in schools, and creationism being taught parallel, or as equally possible as evolution. It may already be too late to entirely prevent a war with Iran, to satisfy Israeli interests in the M.E. And to protect the “holy land.”...

I think it’s past time, for churches to start paying taxes too. More atheists, in government, could make the US a far better place, for all. Whether some theists understand why, or not…

”There is a need to fight against attempts to make America an all out Christian nation.” But that’s a fight for all Americans and Americans of all religions, and for for the Constitution, not just a fight for atheists. Whether the theists like it or not, the Constitution is firmly on our side.

^That’s true Dutch. But I would still like to see some representation for atheists. A fast growing part of the population.

But…in what way would there be representation, and what for?

I’m thinking government representation. Theists really have no place in any government position. There really isn’t a separation of church and state, at this point.

Maybe some atheist holidays, or tax help.

Being an atheist, is practically taboo, in many cases. I have always told my nephews, and nieces, not to mention that they are atheists to anyone. It keeps them from undeserved scrutiny…

Well, I bet there are some people in government who are quietly atheist, but like you said, at this point it could mean the end of their careers. But let’s go see.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Obama was an atheist in private.

Here is a pretty good post from The Huff.

“former Rep. Pete Stark (D-Calif.), who left Congress in 2012 as its only avowed atheist.

A few months after retiring, former Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) also announced his nonbeliever status, a declaration he made more than 25 years after coming out as the first openly gay member of Congress.

That Frank felt more comfortable going public with his sexuality in 1987 than he did with his secular beliefs at any point during his House career says a lot about the stigma surrounding atheism in electoral politics. In 2011, Herb Silverman of the Secular Coalition of America told the Guardian that his group was aware of 27 members of Congress other than Stark “that have no belief in God.” It’s unclear who they were, or are, but none of them — perhaps except Frank — have since decided to speak out.”

And technically, as a teacher, I was a government employee and an atheist.

^Those example could be considered religious persecution. I think Obama was an atheist too. Or, at least agnostic.