Does it seem like after surgery, they should keep older people under observation for 2 or 3 days before they send them home?

Sending him home is certainly the doctor’s judgement call, and of course hospital stays are wildly expensive. Having someone stay with him for a few days seems like the obvious option.

One big concern is that seniors can have very odd reactions to anesthesia, as if it’s instant dementia, and it can take a few days for it to correct.

At the very least, seniors should be transferred to a skilled nursing rehab facility for a few days.

Yes it’s expensive but Medicaide (or care whatever) pays for it.

I agree @zenvelo.

It sounds like if they sent him home, he really should have had a home health aide or a visiting nurse, and he didn’t.

Part of the problem is that insurance companies are looking at their bottom line, and try to cut expenses anywhere they can. It’s sad, because they’re gambling with people’s well being;

Yes he should should have @jca2, but he didn’t. I get SO frustrated with the whole situation.

The consensus where I live regarding the hospital here is care for the older population often sucks, because if they die usually there is no investigation or autopsy.

Probably older people should be observed longer after some procedures. At minimum not left alone if they are being sent home. No one should be alone right after a procedure where you were knocked out, even if it wasn’t general.

Why would they do an autopsy on an older person unless there was some reason to suspect foul play?

“Why would they do an autopsy on an older person unless there was some reason to suspect foul play?”

Unattended death, the man could have being killed a jealous twenty old girlfriend >;)

The coroner can’t assume they died from old age, death was caused . . . without a doubt by. . . .

OIC. Well I imagine if the family asked for one and was willing to pay for it they could get one.

True story i am friends with a funeral director, they had a “suicide” show up (56 years old) for embalming and putting a casket. State police show up because girlfriend’s last two boyfriends died from suicides in another state, they send the body to state coroner.

Oh shit Willie!!

California Code :

_“It shall be the duty of the coroner to inquire into and determine the circumstances, manner, and cause of all violent, sudden, or unusual deaths; UNATTENDED DEATHS; deaths where the deceased has not been attended by either a physician or a registered nurse, who is a member of a hospice care interdisciplinary team, as defined by subdivision (g) of Section 1746 of the Health and Safety Code in the 20 days before death; deaths related to or following known or suspected self-induced or criminal abortion; known or suspected homicide, suicide, or accidental poisoning; deaths known or suspected as resulting in whole or in part from or related to accident or injury either old or recent; deaths due to drowning, fire, hanging, gunshot, stabbing, cutting, exposure, starvation, acute alcoholism, drug addiction, strangulation, aspiration, or where the suspected cause of death is sudden infant death syndrome; death in whole or in part occasioned by criminal means; deaths associated with a known or alleged rape or crime against nature; deaths in prison or while under sentence; deaths known or suspected as due to contagious disease and constituting a public hazard; deaths from occupational diseases or occupational hazards; deaths of patients in state mental hospitals serving the mentally disabled and operated by the State Department of State Hospitals; deaths of patients in state hospitals serving the developmentally disabled and operated by the State Department of Developmental Services; deaths under such circumstances as to afford a reasonable ground to suspect that the death was caused by the criminal act of another; and any deaths reported by physicians or other persons having knowledge of death for inquiry by coroner.  Inquiry pursuant to this section does not include those investigative functions usually performed by other law enforcement agencies.

(a) In any case in which the coroner conducts an inquiry pursuant to this section, the coroner or a deputy shall personally sign the certificate of death.  If the death occurred in a state hospital, the coroner shall forward a copy of his or her report to the state agency responsible for the state hospital.

(b) The coroner shall have discretion to determine the extent of inquiry to be made into any death occurring under natural circumstances and falling within the provisions of this section, and if inquiry determines that the physician of record has sufficient knowledge to reasonably state the cause of a death occurring under natural circumstances, the coroner may authorize that physician to sign the certificate of death.

(c) For the purpose of inquiry, the coroner shall have the right to exhume the body of a deceased person when necessary to discharge the responsibilities set forth in this section.

(d) Any funeral director, physician, or other person who has charge of a deceased person’s body, when death occurred as a result of any of the causes or circumstances described in this section, shall immediately notify the coroner.  Any person who does not notify the coroner as required by this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.
“_

I believed you the first time @Tropical_Willie!

My 90 year old Father in law went in for surgery of his intestines. They removed a section because they found a growth. He left the hospital 4 days later. The charge was 10,000 dollars just for the room. It would’ve been cheaper to have a nurse stay with him in a fancy hotel. People tell me that you are paying for all the equipment and nursing . Not true. That is also separately charged by the hospital. His portion after medicaid was 1000 dollars. My husband and I took a month off to go care for him because his mom is also too old to help him out and has several issues herself. It took a week before a nurse came about to help him with physical therapy. He can finally walk about alone without aid but its hard on him. I think there needs to a temporary palliative care for elderly patients who do not have around the clock care. I don’t mean like in a hospital nor end of life care. Just something for a few weeks till the person can get around on their own and they can get physical therapy. It would save Therapist having to travel, and if something were to happen the person can be whisked away to a hospital. I definitely think 1 day was too quick.

Yeah if they had provided reasonable care in the first place he might not have wound up BACK in the hospital for a week. Lose lose for insurance provider.

I hear you @Pandora. I was in for two weeks in 2012. The bill was, like, $350,000. I was terrified that I’d have a $35,000 out of pocket expense.
I was amazed that my actual out of pocket was only $1,900.

Why do you need an inquiry or autopsy? Because if the doctors were negligent and it led to the death of the patient the hospital can be sued, but when it’s an older person often people chalk it up to the person being old, maybe they had some other health problems, and the family just accepts their mom or dad died, when actually there was a screw up. An otherwise healthy 25 year old dies in a hospital or after surgery, and you can be sure it’s looked into. A 65 year old dies and the funeral is planned. Might be the same gall bladder surgery, or whatever.

Hospitals are nut houses. The experience I had with the one I went to back in 2007 taught me that. Would I want to stay there an extra one or two days?? Hell, no!

While in the hospital the elderly are more prone to pick up a C-Diff infection or RSV Respiratory Syncytial Virus, both of which can be fatal.

In most cases it is safer to treat and release.

Well, it’s starting to look like releasing him so soon might be fatal….he is not doing well at all, especially not with all the changing of locations and stuff.

The lesson is this, and I’ve gleaned it from some 20 years now of visiting elderly people in hospitals and nursing homes. No one will admit it but the unspoken consensus is that these folks have had their turn. That may sound rash. But you you must ALWAYS keep in mind that places interring and caring for the elderly are brutally compelled to deal with the economics of what amounts to underfunded mandates to care for primarily indigent people. It boils down to money-plain & simple, and nowhere in the medical jungle are the consequences of that fact more emphasized than geriatric care. I may be cynical by nature, but you, Rick and his brothers should arrange to visit your father in law as though you are rotating “watch”. The staff will learn to recognize you and vice versa. Be attentive, but not obnoxious if possible. The facility needs to understand that you pay attention. I’m getting depressed talking about this.

I understand exactly what you are saying @stanleybmanly. Rick is staying in the house he grew up in, where dad lived and he’s been cleaning his ass off. He said it was just filthy.
I don’t understand. If you want him to stay home, where he doesn’t belong, why the fuck don’t you make arrangements for him to live in a clean, healthy environment?

When my MIL was hospitalized for a bleeding ulcer, they performed emergency treatment, then transferred her to a nursing home for a week recovery. She was receiving Social Security and Medical, through Kaiser Permanente.

Well, he’s in rehab now. That’s where they should have sent him to begin with.

Here it doesn’t matter the age, IF you live alone you will be sent to one of the local nursing homes that has a rehab wing so you have 24/7 care & trained personnel trying to get you up & going. Even then, most insurance/medicare will only pay for 1 week in rehab & then they have to go back to the hospital for a minimum of 24 hours & be resent to the rehab wing which is good for another 1 week stint.

I had a customer on my last job who ran a nursing home & she always told me to NEVER drink the orange jiuce in a nursing home because that’s where they hide the sedatives they want the patients to take. Anybody the least bit combative drinks a lot of OJ & they act as though they have dementia which is usually readily accepted by the family. NO idea if this is true; but it sounds plausible!!!

It is understandable how you feel. Some of us have felt the same way, especially in the US, where healthcare can vary by location and what coverage is carried.

What we’ve learned is that it is rarely beneficial to the patient to probe into what happened. It is more what can be done now for him to give him the best last years of his life.

But they did not do that @Pied_Pfeffer.

They didn’t do what? Who is “they”?

The hospital sent my 96 year old father in law home the same day he had back surgery, instead f keeping him under observation for a day or two.
Within 2 days he’s back in the hospital with complications. He was there all last week, moved to an assisted loving rehab yesterday.
He isn’t doing well because they sent him home too soon, IMO.

Yes, I understand that. What I don’t know is his healthcare coverage, nor the laws in your state. I don’t know his condition when he was released.

He has state insurance, obviously. Medicare. I don’t know his condition when he was released either.
The point is he’s damn near 100 years old, living alone, and he needs a little more care and consideration than a 40 year old.

Mom was 86 when she fell and broke her hip. The doctors put a pin in her leg and went through a couple of weeks of physical and occupational therapy. She wasn’t ready to go back home, but her insurance coverage had run out at that hospital. This was someone with both Blue Cross and Medicade insurance. It basically spiraled down from there.

The point is, insurance only covers so much. It depends upon the policy. If your FIL was not in a mental state to speak for himself, then the person in charge should have looked into it.