What do you think about this article saying the immigration detention centers are concentration camps?

Well from what I’m hearing that isva pretty accurate description.

I’m not fond of it. Very divisive, very cynical on the part of Esquire, to yank people’s emotions around. If you want to draw attention to the plight of refugees, you talk about specifics. Are they sick, overcrowded, separated from their families, detained illegally, etc? That’s what an informative article would provide. If you want to yank people’s emotions around, you talk about vague, subjective stuff with inflammatory labels. All that article is going to do is make people go, “Yeah! it’s a concentration camp! Cruel right-wingers!” or “Puh-leez, it’s not a concentration camp! Bleeding-heart leftists!”

Ignore articles that use inflammatory or emotionally loaded language and make emotional/subjective points rather than simply stating the facts. You’re quite capable of having your own feelings without needing some corporation to supply feelings for you.

Peace and luck

I say it’s total bullshit.

The border patrol is in dire need of funds for additional shelters, beds, food, doctors, asylum judges. etc. the food, clothing and medicine often which is provided out of the pockets of the agents themselves.

Congress has effectively blocked any funding for aid, mainly because they want the migrants either just let into the country, or they want the border situation strained to the breaking point.

Mexico is doing more to protect our borders than Democrats in the house.

^^Bullshit. Ask your beloved president to lead and fix for good the problem of illegal immigration without demonizing them. Act like a decent human being and maybe the Democrats might cooperate.

The article is stating the term “concentration camp” could mean several different things that have something in common.

When I hear concentration camp the first thing that comes to mind are the Nazi run concentration camps. I don’t think the US detention centers could be compared to those.

Although I’m pretty sure there are cruel and evil trump worshipers who want those detention centers turned into terror camps for border crossers.

Franklin D Roosevelt, worshipped and emulated by Democrats and Democrat presidential hopefuls, instigated the American detention centers .(*Japanese, African American) As usual, on the wrong side of history and depriving basic human rights.

As for what you said just above, the need at the border is DIRE and the Democrats are only interested in obstructing. Their hatred for Trump is stronger than their concern for people entangled in the border crises or the well being of the nation. As Trump has said many times, this crises could be fixed in fifteen minutes. The Democrats refuse to come to the table and continue to obstruct. Maybe its time you should take a good look at what side you’re on.

^^Turn away from evil man. Turn away but not before you all lock him up.

Japanese internment camps are relevant to the subject. But not in a partisan way. Both such camps, point to demonizing entire races, ignorance, fear, and a lack of empathy for our common man.

The US, is not at war with Mexico, or any other country from which these people are running from.

Funding is definitely a issue. If the crisis is SO important, then Trump should take back his tax cuts to the elite, and use that money to better deal with a real issue…

@mazingerz88 “Ask your beloved president to lead and fix for good the problem of illegal immigration without demonizing them.” He did try that. He tried early on in his presidency to force Congress to deal with the issue of immigration. That is what the final solution has to be…Congress dealing with it. He has tried to take action to address the issue in the form of a border wall and more Border Patrol with better equipment. You know what the end results of those efforts were? The DEMOCRATS absolutely refused to do anything that would address the issue. I suspect it was for political reasons…don’t give President Trump anything! Keep him from succeeding!
Now let me ask…does that sound like good leadership for a country by the Democrats? Exacerbate problems facing the country (and in this case, those poor, helpless people trying to get to this country) just so you can claim a political win?

^You know that umpteen-billion dollar wall was a stupid idea. And a huge waste of money. That’s why Trump’s plan didn’t get through…

I’ll answer now. I don’t like it.

The Jews in Nazi Germany were rounded up and put in the concentration camps or killed or eventually both. Jews were practically starved in most of those camps.

In America we are talking about immigration detention centers. Maybe not fun to be in, but the people can leave and go back to their country if they want, they are being fed, and probably they knew when they left their country they might be detained somehow. You look at refugees around the world when they go to new countries in masses, and they almost always are detained somewhere or have to live in tent cities or large buildings.

The Japanese in America during WWII were also rounded up by the government. They were Americans, already in America, they weren’t crossing a new border.

It’s not new for America to have detention centers for immigrants coming here asking for asylum. Even people coming through with green cards, working papers, or a vacation visa sometimes are detained at airports and borders, although that’s usually just a room. No one is ever happy about it, especially when the people detained should have been allowed into the country. Don’t you take passing immigration seriously when you travel? Going your not pulled aside for additional questions?

I don’t like watering down what the Nazis did, and for that reason I don’t like the comparison. Detention center has always for me meant basically like a jail, some nicer than others, so it’s not like it’s pictured as some wonderful place to be. I don’t see why that’s not good enough? Call it a detention center and describe the conditions.

@MrGrimm888 Yes, I know that is the liberal talking point. And as long as we don’t do it, we can never really know if it would have had any effect, would we? AND the liberals can continue to use it as a political talking point. Thanks for making my point.

It’s not a “liberal talking point.” It’s a technology that was obsolete thousands of years ago…
If. IF I thought it would work, I’d actually support it. If it was some sort of like forcefield, that would work. But we don’t have that technology yet…

I’m not sure what point you think was made…

BOTH parties use that wall as a way to rile up their base. It’s so obvious. Chants of “build the wall” and “lock her up” Trump uses these three word lines effectively to create gang mentalities and fierce loyalty to him and hatred of others. Even after the chant dies down, the issue is still present. The Democrats then as a reaction use it to call everyone supporting the wall racist, even bringing some people to tears, including young children worried about Hispanic classmates.

Trump didn’t ask for the big money on the wall until the Democrats were in the majority in the House. Why? Why did he wait? Both parties are guilt of not willing together. It’s horrible. The politicians don’t want to solve this issue. The issue gets them votes!

I didn’t read the previous answers yet.

I don’t think it’s accurate. People who went to real concentration camps didn’t have a choice. Japanese were in this country and therefore, without any choice had to go to interment camps. Jews in Europe had no choice but to go to concentration camps, where many met their deaths. Ones who didn’t meet their deaths were starved and tortured.

Migrants crossing the US border have a choice. If they didn’t cross the border, they wouldn’t be detained. I see that as the biggest difference between the camps for Japanese and Jewish people.

My father is from Mexico (yes, a Hispanic) so I’m not anti-immigration.

As a German, I am going to give you the definitive answer:
They are concentration camps.
So were the Japanese “internment” camps.
So is Guantanamo.
So were the Gulags.

@ragingloli More bullshit.

@seawulf575 You will never understand what’s wrong with trump. You will never see why he’s a menace to this country. Especially when you believe whites are being untreated unfairly in the US. Or maybe you do know why trump is a menace but you’ll never admit it in social media.

@seawulf575 Is it your assertion that the dems are treating the fool worse than conservatives did Obama?

A concentration camp by definition has nothing to do with policies within the camp beyond concentrating whatever population in isolation from the overall society.

I’ve listened to multiple stories, on NPR, about people who have been in those camps. They are cold, to prevent the spread of disease. But, disease still spreads. People have been separated from their families, and lawyers are unable to track down the other family. The government sent them to lots of different locations, but has no records in many cases, as to where the people went.
Many people didn’t have translators, but were forced to sign documents they didn’t understand.
I agree that they are not the same as Nazi concentration camps. But they are nothing close to how America is legally supposed to treat people.

^^They aren’t separating children like they were before. I agree that was a disgrace.

How about this. I just read there is a mumps outbreak in a VA detention center. The article argues that’s reason not to detain people, because it will spread fast in close quarters. Isn’t it possibly reason to detain people though? https://www.wvtf.org/post/mumps-outbreak-grows-ice-detention-facility-virginia#stream/0 Granted, I don’t know if the mumps started with a detainee or someone who works there, but assuming it is a detainee, is it unreasonable to observe them for a couple of weeks? I can see the argument against it, we have millions of people coming into of our country constantly for vacation and business anyway.

Another article discussing multiple detention centers and illnesses. https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/mb8k5q/migrant-detention-centers-are-getting-slammed-with-mumps-and-chicken-pox

You have a point. But we don’t quarantine every person on incoming flights from foreign countries…

They are only putting THE CHILDREN in trump’s camps. Jesus. The internment of the Japanese was bad but.at least they kept families together.
Trump is simply a cruel, sadistic, stupid man who somehow got handed a whole lot of power.

@MrGrimm888 That’s what I said. We have people traveling in and out of our country every day on tourist visas, business, re-entering after a vacation, etc.

@Dutchess_III What do you mean? Adults are detained also. Plus, I thought they stopped separating the children from the adults.

^Oops. Brain fart…

Dutch. I don’t think Trump is sadistic. He just doesn’t give a fuck, about almost anyone…

They may have stopped but there are still 1000+ children in camps because they don’t know where the parents are.
Can some one provide meb a link that adults are being held as well instead of just being deported?

Of course they are being held! Some of them are being released into the US, but they are processed first, and so they are held for processing. https://time.com/5607608/migrant-conditions-holding-centers-border/

@Dutchess_lll where do you get this information that Trump is separating children from families and deporting the parents? Do you actually believe that? I am asking inquisitively, not disrespectfully.

Thousands of detainee families are released into the U.S. daily because there is not space for them. The sanctuary cities don’t want them. Trump is the one who ended the separation of children and their families by executive order (congress blocked it) Some judge opposed the executive order but it was appealed and stands.

If you abhor the separation of children from families, why aren’t you advocating Trump for a Nobel Peace Prize for ending the practice?

Trump started a bad thing, and stopped it. (I know it originally came from the Obama administration, but it was not implemented.) Trump only stopped it, because of public outcry.

Most of the stuff I’ve heard, was on NPR. Not sure if it’s something that you can look up. But it was eye opening, and the sources seemed legitimate.

Thank you. I’ll look more tomorrow when I’m not so tired.

@MrGrimm888…what bad thing started under Obama?

Obama’s administration originally came up with the strategy of separating families, as a deterrence. But it wasn’t really done. Trump made it a priority to use the tactic. There was no real preparation for how it would work though, as far as logistics. There was not a structure of keeping tabs on where people went. There were/are not near enough translators. Some of the immigrants came from places with rare dialects. So… Some people had NO translators, and signed legal documents, with no understanding of what they were signing.
Children actually have to represent themselves, in many cases. Some are very young. It’s like putting a child on trial, without legal representation. How could a child possibly understand the technicalities, and ramifications of trying to gain asylum, or citizenship?

So…Trump started a dumpster fire, and had to stop his own orders, because people were pissed. Hard to give Trump credit, for stopping a problem he created….

@mazingerz88 You are partially correct…I will never understand what YOU think is wrong with Trump. I hear a lot of insults against the guy and I hear a lot of innuendo thrown around, but very little fact. You claim he is a menace, yet really have nothing other than a feeling you have been fed to back that.

@stanleybmanly In many ways, yes…the Dems ARE treating Trump more unfairly than anyone did Obama. Look at the facts. Obama violated the Constitution repeatedly and was involved in many things that were far worse than anything Trump has been accused of. And Obama skated through without any efforts at impeachment or anything. Meanwhile, fast forward to Trump. The Dems started calling for impeachment a month before Trump was sworn into office. An entire 2 year special investigation was held because of something that wasn’t true and was manufactured by Dems and their followers. Now they are frantically trying to dig into every aspect of Trump’s life to see if they can find anything concrete to use against him. If you CAN’T see the disparity, you have blinded yourself.

As a Brit…we won so :P

It’s a huge insult to the memory of those who died horribly in concentration camps & a clear sign of the times we’re living in…yes that’s right, snowflake central.

@MrGrimm888 So, you are saying children at the border were never separated from their families before Trump, that Obama’s administration, or previous administrations, never permitted the practice?

There was public outcry against this practice in 2014. Obama said several times that he couldn’t do anything about it because it was congresses responsibility.

For several weeks after Trump was blamed for this practice, the images shown were from 2014, and people were held accountable for misrepresenting the imagery. Also, whereas I am not saying most the children coming over the border were with families, the practice of using children not related to one’s self in order to claim asylum is the number one way of falsifying asylum claims.

And where do you get the idea that children had to represent themselves or that brder agents, DHS, and other agencies do not speak fluent Spanish and deal with Hispanic and other Latino languages and families every hour of every day? Trust me, Social agencies on the border speak fluent Spanish.

@seawulf575. You wanna talk about blind? The truth is that conservatives were stymied at Obama. The man was squeeky clean and so—-they were compelled to make shit up—silly shit! Birth certificates, Muslim adherent, patently demonstrable puffed up nonsense. Even if I were to concede that the effort to dispose of the fool to be a strictly political matter, you must concede that there has never been a juicier more vulnerable target than the fool. There is just plain more there for dogs to chew on than Obama could possibly provide. There has been from the beginning and the fool augments and throws more tinder on the fires every day of his defectively sordid life!

This whole idea that border patrol doesn’t speak Spanish is ridiculous. It is true that a small portion of the immigrants might not be Spanish speaking, but instead speak Indian/Native/indigenous languages, but it’s likely a small percentage of the people who are migrating.

South TX has an extremely high rate of Spanish speaking people in the community. Even if only a quarter of the people working in immigration speak some Spanish, it’s still a quarter, so even if the first contact isn’t with a Spanish speaker, they are around. My bet is it’s much higher than 25%. If you live in a place that you almost never here a foreign language you have no idea what it’s like to be in parts of the US that are heavily Hispanic. When I lived in Miami often times I was spoken to in Spanish first. At restaurants, at the airport, in the mall, it’s not as bilingual as a city like Montreal, but it’s close. I don’t know border town TX stats, but I read about 30% of Texans speak Spanish. In Miami, FL the stat is 60% of the people there speak Spanish, I bet border towns in Texas are similar.

Whatever they are signing should be in Spanish also, that I agree, but most likely they will sign even if they feel uncomfortable anyway. How many things have you signed in English that you didn’t completely understand what you were getting into, or felt pressured to sign quickly without time to read the entire thing? Did you read all the documents when you purchased your house, leased your car, etc etc? That doesn’t make it ok, they should be provided translation or verbal interpretation before signing, no question. In FL we have many contracts in Spanish or a requirement of the interpretative to sign on the contract.

@stanleybmanly Why not quit giving examples of silly conspiracy theories from the alt-right and focus on Obama’s real crimes. You can’t argue with a conservative or centrist unless you know what their position / argument actually IS,

Most appalling to me, btw, is Obama giving 150 BILLION dollars to Iranian Mullahs. That is only one of about 26 things I could name.

But just consider that Iran is the main supporter of terrorism in the world, has a formidable arsenal now, and most of the middle east, including Israel, is allied with the U.S. against terrorists like the Iranian government. Obama supported terror, and most of that “shit” about Russia and the racial divides of the Summer of 2015 “Summer of Rage”? It was all Obama. Obama did nothing about Russia even though they were well informed,

“silly conspiracy theories from the alt right”
no, silly conspiracy theories from the right wing mainstream.
espoused by the orangutan himself.

We owed Iran money. We were making good on an old deal we never fulfilled.

Spanish requirements for border patrol. https://www.cbp.gov/faqs/do-i-have-speak-spanish-join-us-border-patrol

@stanleybmanly You and I have been over Obama’s crimes time and again and you even had to concede that he had, indeed, violated the Constitution a number of times. There was no getting around it. But now you are trying to deflect from that again. Yes, you have blinded yourself.

@MrGrimm888 do you have source for your assertation that it was dreamed up under the Obama admin? Someone may have come up with it but I can only imagine Obama going through the roof in outrage over such a cruel, inhumane suggestion.

What are these supposed violations committed by the Obama administration? I was no fan of the man as a president, but I’ve never seen any reputable journalism about anything.

That’s what I’m trying to figure out @tinyfaery. However, I think what they are saying some damn fool came up with the absurd idea during Obama admin, but it wasn’t adopted, obviously.

@Yellowdog . Spanish, is not the only language that people south of the US speak… There are many, many languages used. Some have origins from small tribes, that only recently (within the past few decades) have been introduced to “society.”

And yes, according to the interviews on NPR, a source I trust, children have to represent themselves… Especially if they have no guardians…

Dutch. I don’t have a specific source, that it was originated under the Obama administration. That is what I have garnered from dozens of different articles, and interviews. Someone like @seawulf575 , might have a source.

@MrGrimm888 I’m glad that @JLeslie taught you well about languages and the border.

But contrary to what you are trying to spread now, the practice was very common among the Obama administration, And when people first made an outcry about this practice, for over a month we were seeing images from 2014. Obama refused to deal with the issue seven times on national television. There were United Methodist and certain Lutheran groups raising the issue as early as the 1990s,

I thought you might be interested in Chris Cuomo reporting at the border. I think he is one of the most honest reporters on TV. He grew up in politics, his family has been entrenched in the Democratic Party for as long as I can remember. His dad was Governor of New York years ago for those who don’t know him.

This link shows a border facility. You’ll see that the immigrants are told in their country to bring their children. It’s in the first minute and 45 seconds if you don’t want to watch the entire thing. https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/04/02/us-mexico-border-shelter-chris-cuomo-pkg-cpt-vpx.cnn

This shows at the border with border patrol. https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/04/02/border-patrol-ride-along-cuomo-cpt-vpx.cnn

It doesn’t take away from the fact that Trump isn’t addressing the border crisis in a productive fashion. He’s horrible how he talks about the immigrants and that he separated children from parents, but republicans aren’t lying about all parts of it. BOTH political parties are using immigration for votes. Trump/Republicans and Democrats have incentive not to fix the problem. Reporting on both sides is biased and cherry picked.

There is overcrowding and bad conditions going on in many facilities. We have seen those conditions reported also. Some kids still haven’t been reunited with their parents, which is a disgrace. Now we have outbreaks of disease in some places as mentioned above, but I think if the outbreaks were traveling across the US the majority of people, all political parties, would prefer it be quarantined if it can be tracked down to new immigrants coming in, whether it be asylum seekers or business travelers. We do quarantine people who paid for a $2,000 plane ticket sometimes, depending on the illness, or stop them from flying, although it’s rare.

@Yellowdog . You’re repeating yourself…

I’m waiting for the Obama stories aboutr his gross abuse of the constitution.

@JLeslie I think that is partly why I am so against illegal immigration. These people are traveling thousands of miles, dragging their kids along as a chit to get a better chance at access into the USA, and subjecting themselves AND their children to the dangers of the trek north as well as overwhelming the available resources we have to deal with them. It is a lose-lose situation. I find that anyone suggesting we should just open our borders or treat these folks as anything other than people trying to enter our country illegally is contributing to this condition. Their rhetoric is what leads to people being told in their home countries to bring their children. They are being told all they have to do is say they want asylum and they will be free and clear. And both are just wrong on so many levels.
And now…cue that accusations of racism, xenophobia, nationalism and mention how I hate “brown” people.

^Speaking as you do, nobody has to accuse you of anything. You have your ignorance on full display, like a proud peacock…

@seawulf575 you have a way of looking at things that mystifies me. I am trying to recall a single suggestion from ANYONE that we simply open our borders and let everyone in, although the woman in the harbor says “your tired, your poor, your hungry”. But let’s forget about her for now and examine the inability you share with the fool to recognize the urgency evinced by the swarms of asylum seekers. If desperate hungry people walk thousands of miles to get herewith the risks you’ve just admitted, it seems to me the reaction of you and the fool —that the exclusive urgency is in turning them back—is not only heartless, but blindingly obtuse. You and Trump see this as mischief concocted to inconvenience us and ignore completely what should be obvious to a blind man. For the people involved, the excursion isn’t about a picnic in the United States at Mr. Trump’s expense, It’s about life or death, and nothing should make THAT issue more starkly evident than the ordeals required to get here.

@stanleybmanly if you cannot recall a single suggestion from ANYONE that we simply open our borders and let everyone in, then you might have Alzheimer’s. Let me help:

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/illegal-immigration-democrats-open-borders/

https://dailycaller.com/2018/06/25/keith-ellison-poses-with-stolen-land-sign/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/16/democrats-immigration-policy-open-borders-dreamers

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/open-borders_n_5737722?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKsF2hHdgVcO8r5QLOEXnWQwh0Gepv_jHBm4EFUWdbTSVq-ZIKujL2L0gRaTEpNPS0awzd6jFw7BaOIuhDK172tSvSZGaNHGKY6ba3ziZN9rYs1obdKtz9NG7mog38VvlcuGqW-MWHpEPkIgZjrUph2kvzP6t1T7jhCpMqbKpL3J

https://www.salon.com/2017/03/15/everyones-wrong-on-immigration-open-borders-are-the-only-way-to-defeat-trump-and-build-a-better-world/

The list goes on and on. Maybe if you took off the blinders or actually could face reality, you could see the crap that is being shoveled.

As for the rest of your bleeding heart diatribe, it is just that…a rant based on “feeling” instead of common sense and facts. Your attitude is just the one that spurs on the ideas that drive these people thousands of miles through many dangers. I think it is people like YOU that want to put these people in danger. I’m suggesting they pay $190 for a visa application instead of traveling 2500 miles through untold dangers. I see that as the legal way to enter this country and is WAY more safe than what they are doing. People like you encourage them to put themselves and their families in harm’s way.

@seawulf575 I really take issue with characterizing the people wanting to immigrate here as criminals. The political right constantly dwells on the idea that these people are breaking the law and trying to enter illegally. They are most often surrendering themselves to authorities. They want opportunity to work and help their families.

The rumors and the lies that are told to them are not their fault. If America changed policy and allowed more people in legally then the word might get out to apply, be a little patient, America is letting people in. Then, the people seeking to come to America could stop paying these horrible people who pile them in a truck, and instead pay the US a fee for processing paperwork, and take a direct flight to the airport in Houston from their country of origin.

Maybe the best way to deter people from walking hundreds or thousands of miles, is to give them a light at the end of a tunnel that isn’t very far away. True asylum seekers will still possibly come on foot, but people wanting to come to America seeking a better economic situation might first only have the head of the household come here. Also, they may be able to wait out applying from their country, even though their life is difficult. They would rather be legal here, it’s not like they are fucked up people who don’t give a shit about whether they have paperwork or not. People without papers are always aware they are vulnerable.

Why isn’t Trump putting more judges down at the birder to give these people hearings right away? How about turning back the people who don’t qualify for asylum within a week? You don’t think the word would get out that you can’t just walk into our country? As long as there are caravans of people coming to our border Trump has a better chance of winning the next election. It helps him to keep the immigration problem in full swing.

As long as BOTH parties are able to rile up their voters with the immigration issue the politicians won’t fix it.

@seawulf575 Again, which one of those articles had Democrats calling for open borders? I see ABSOLUTELY no evidence of such a claim in any of them. And what sort of imbecilic idea that people fleeing for their lives have $190 lying around or the leisurely option of waiting 20 years for a decision on an application. Any idiot can understand that if you are willing to risk death to get here, your incentive is about more than a a desire to overwork our government.

Does anyone else find it telling, exactly how each party tries ti rile their base?

The Dems try to appeal to people who care about people, other than their own…

The Reps try to appeal to the bigots…

This is what I mean about willful and deliberate stupidity. It’s the sort of obstinate thick headed meanness that’s too embarrassing to suffer without opposition. Bleeding heart is preferential to brain dead dummy. The fact that people are risking death to get here LEGALLY to claim asylum as they are entitled BY LAW has nothing to with a bleeding heart or that soft on crime bullshit you and that other ignorant know nothing dummy spew. Thank Gods the courts wax his stupid ass to a glossy sheen.

@JLeslie And THERE you have hit the entire problem. Please note that I have NEVER said immigration is bad. Never. Not once. But entering another country without following the proper protocol? Yeah…I have a big problem with that. And to put your kids at risk so yoyu can use them as a pawn? Yeah, I have a bigger problem with that. But a big part of the solution to what is going on is for CONGRESS to revamp the immigration laws. Trump tossed them this in 2017 and congress absolutely refused. The Dems didn’t want to do anything because Trump had asked them to. The Repubs didn’t want to do anything because they don’t know what to do and don’t want to take a political chance. Our Congress is THE problem.
But there is another problem as well. We haven’t really enforced our immigration laws consistently for many, many years. So passing new laws won’t necessarily be the final solution, especially if we don’t enforce them either. And our lackadaisical attitude towards enforcement is what draws so many here. They know the chances are pretty good they will be able to get into our nation so they take the chance.

The PROPER PROTOCOL is to come here and claim asylum. There is NOTHING illegal about it! You and the fool are once again distorting the truth. The war at the border has shifted from hounding people infiltrating our borders to erecting barriers to people exercising their LEGAL rights both before and after they can exercise such rights. To declare resistance to such measures equivalent to the advocation of open borders is stupidly dishonest, and the necessity to constantly point at the flagrant dishonesty of your arguments is exhausting.

@seawulf575 I don’t like the kids traveling that far either, but a lot of these people have risk if they stay in their country. I assume, the more people coming at once the more people join in. It is a little bit of an exponential growth probably like a snowball. Safety in numbers. Like a wagon train heading west.

How did your ancestors come here? By boat? You can be sure those boat trips were grueling. First they had to make their way to the ports. My grandfather and his siblings had to get from Latvia to Southampton, England, I don’t know how he got there.

I feel like you lack empathy for the condition these people live and the idea in their head that they have about how long the trip will be and what waits for them in America. I’m not saying you lack sympathy, I’m talking about empathy.You are not in their shoes. Around the world people take days, even weeks, long journeys seeking freedom, safety, or a better life. If the phenomenon of migration has been happening for centuries by people from many different ethnicities, religions, and nationalities, don’t you think maybe they might understand something you don’t, and they also might lack understanding of exactly what they are getting into but they are brave and take the risk.

Americans take tremendous risk and show incredible courage every day! We are proud of it, we honor it. Do you think maybe we are born from generations of people who were brave, and it’s in our DNA, starting with leaving our home countries for America.

You want to stop immigration? Do something to help the countries that are so poor and that have terrible gang violence.

As you sit in your comfortable house, relatively safe, and I assume you have a job (I really don’t know your specific situation) and you speak the language much of the industrialized world speaks, imagine if the US and Canada become unsafe for you either from war or persecution or weather or lack of work or lack of food, where are you going? How are you getting there? How do you want to be received?

@JLeslie You’re letting him off too lightly. His reasoning follows the same line as Trump and it is the reasoning of a psychopath. Here is what they are saying. “These people are evil because they show up here. If they weren’t evil, they wouldn’t come.” The question of motive is ignored or when raised “They’re drug runners, rapists, etc.”

@stanleybmanly Not letting him off. I’ve said over and over again on many Q’s how disgusted I am that in the minds of many Republicans crossing a border is equivalent to raping and pillaging.

I just keep thinking of the saying, “don’t spit in the wind.” Maybe some of these Republicans saying such things will learn the hard way.

It’s two different things: calling them criminals for crossing a border, where the word criminal connotes felon type of behavior that causes serious harm, and saying that the people crossing the border are rapists and drug runners. Many Republicans are saying both, but I do see it as two separate things.

@JLeslie And this is why I absolutely love having you in these discussions. You have a point of view and I have a different point of view. But we can discuss these things and not get into degrading each other.
I have no illusion that many people in the world don’t have things a whole lot worse than I do. I know they do. But that is a fact of life. There have always, and I mean ALWAYS, poor people and rich people. So being poor isn’t a new thing and even coming here, they will probably still be poor. Not guaranteed, but likely. But here’s the kicker…that isn’t even the issue that I have. As I have said repeatedly (and you still try to accuse me of being otherwise), that I have absolutely no problem with immigration. But there are procedures for immigrating to this country. And despite @stanleybmanly‘s assertions, claiming asylum is not the proper protocol. It is a way to gain access to this country and rightfully so, but there are criteria with that avenue that I would say most of those coming from Central America don’t meet. They are poor, but they have to prove persecution. And the burden of proof is on them. This isn’t a case where whatever they say is taken as true until it is proven false. I have given the citations for the laws that apply to asylum on other threads and @stanleybmanly has been in those threads. So really, what these people are being told to do is travel 2500 miles, dragging at least one child with them, so they can claim asylum and the US will welcome them in with open arms. Meanwhile, the actual proper protocol for gaining entry is to apply for a visa from their home country. It costs something like $190. It doesn’t put them in a situation where they and their children are subjected to rapes and murders, human trafficking and drugs. Storming our borders isn’t the answer and isn’t the smart thing for these people to do.
You ask me how my ancestors came to this country. I’ll be honest, I don’t know. And I’m sure it was done before the Civil War and there weren’t many immigration laws either at the state or federal level at that time. But let’s be perfectly transparent. Since the late 1800’s there have been laws that spell out how someone would immaigrate to this country. In the 1890’s, when Ellis Island and other major immigration points were open in full swing, there were still laws about who could and who couldn’t enter this country. And there were many people in Ellis Island that were put into quarantine areas for extended periods. That was done to protect the citizens of this country from unknown or incurable diseases. The people coming here in hopes of finding a better life were often turned away and put on the next ship back to their homelands because they didn’t have marketable skills or enough financial funding to support themselves for a set period of time. It wasn’t until the past 20 years or so that there has been a drive to let anyone and everyone into this country based solely on their need.
I say it again….Immigration is fine and can be beneficial to our country. But illegal immigration is not. It takes away any and all control we might have to screen people, it puts the would-be immigrants in danger, and it violates our laws. If our immigration laws are onerous and need to be streamlined, that is a job for CONGRESS. Not the POTUS. Not for Trump, not for Obama with his phone and pen leadership…CONGRESS. What amazes me is that there is not more outrage at CONGRESS for avoiding taking any action at all on this topic. The left rants and raves against Trump for any actions he takes, and they will rail against anyone that has anything negative to say about illegal immigration. But they are quiet as church-mice when it comes to actually holding those people responsible for the situation accountable. And I say the left because they are probably the most vocal and vociferous about it. But really, anyone that has an opinion other than “things are great!” needs to hold Congress accountable. I have brought this point up a number of times as well, and all I seem to get is personal attacks. Not from you,,,you usually present yourself with a certain modicum of decorum.

Using hyperbole to compare anything to images of the holocaust only cheapens the lesson of the holocaust and is thus a loser in the minds of most folks

Well you have to have some place to house people who are legally seeking asylum until the courts can hear their individual cases.
Must be a logistics nightmare.

People are forced into concentration camps as some sort of punishment.

Unfortunately, we will slam the door legally. It’s regrettable but inevitable. The problem is that the fool operates as though that door is already closed. And anyone lacking legal guidance is almost certainly out in the cold.

During the time of Ellis Island people paid for passage on the ships. The shipping companies basically fed and kept the people at the port in England (in sucky conditions) sometimes for many weeks. The people emigrating were watched for health issues. The trip on the ship was fairly horrid down in steerage, with poor sanitation and barely enough food and water.

Back then, often the one person in a family cane first. I don’t remember if I wrote this already. Once established he sent for the rest of the family members.

So, some details were similar and some were different when comparing immigration then and now, but not that different. New immigrants are observed for illness, they spend time in detention. If they get sick they are held. That’s why the minis outbreaks have been contained. As far as I know there isn’t an outbreak spreading?

As far as asylum, before Trump there were thousands of people coming in on asylum since I can remember, and I’m 50, and most people were clueless about it. Especially, people from China. Of course we had the Cubans coming in also. Growing up I had friends from Iran who came in on Asylum, I knew a few Russians who had left their country. I don’t know all of the stats, but most Americans were clueless. I’m talking mostly about back in the ‘80’s and 90’s. Now, attention is put on the southern border, but it’s not all out into perspective.

^^^ yep. Grampa came from Holland first in 1928 or so. Then he sent for gramma….who came over BY. HER. SELF. with 7 children under the age of 10. By herself.
She had 2 more kids after she got her. One was my Muv.

That is what the experts think:
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a27813648/concentration-camps-southern-border-migrant-detention-facilities-trump/

So, when are we going to start finishing that wall to keep the U.S. from defecting to Mexico, and we start sending the Hispanic Americans to the gas chambers?

^Personally, I think their is a big difference between bigotry, and nationalism, and commiting mass scale genocide.

My feelings, are that Trump, and his supporters don’t want brown people in the US. But I have never insinuated that that means they want them dead.

The border patrol catches over 4,000 per day trying to cross the border. And that’s only a small percentage compared to those who do. Certain border cities and other port cities are completely overwhelmed infrastructurally, with health care and schooling needs and costs, etc etc.

Congress has refused to allow even humanitarian aid at the border, for more beds, diapers, medical supplies, child care needs, etc. then they damn this administration when another child dies.

There are at least half a dozen on Fluther alone who say that Donald Trump is separating children from their parents. Though I only half-blame them if they really believe this

Rather than deal with the crises at the border, Democrats are using them as political pawns. They want the crises to get worse to make Trump look bad. If they care about these people at all, it is to flood the country (thousands per day) with foreigners—the size of a city like Jacksonville FL per month—in hopes that they will turn selective states politically. For instance, sanctuary cities don’t want them for themselves nor are they taking care of their own, as they are already overwhelmingly blue states.

@MrGrimm888—you cannot even reply without calling those who oppose your views ‘racist,’ In fact, that’s about all you say. Don’t you realize that Hispanics are the main ones having to deal with this problem? There are a few Anglos down there, but I don’t see a lot of racism from them.

The grass is green. The sky is blue. Trumpers are bigots. My opinions are based on observation, not difference in opinion…

@Yellowdog. Those on fluther no longer say that Trump IS snatching and LOSING children. The courts put a stop to it. And your hypothesis of undocumented migrants shifting the political balance is ridiculous unless you believe them stupid enough to show up at the polls. And once again you imagine that Democrats or anyone else must invent schemes to make Trump
look bad. Rubbish. Democrats could sleep through the fool’s term as President and he would still best be described as a fkup. Go to google images and enter the word idiot. It won’t be Hillary or Obama whose mug shows up on your screen!

@Yellowdog They don’t catch 4,000 they take in 4,000, or whatever the number is. Sure some are “caught” trying to come in without being noticed, but most surrender themselves to authorities. Caught makes them sound like hardened criminals again, which I take issue with.

@stanleybmanly In @Yellowdog’s defense a lot of my friends do say Trump is separating children in the present tense, including jellies. Some children are still separated from the adults who bring them over, but the systematic separating children from parents is not being done anymore.

A lot of border agents make tremendous sacrifices of their own money and time, because the congress has not provided all the clothing and medicine the children need. Border agents bring their own children, toys, used clothes, soccer balls, etc

There are not enough beds, space, medicine. The Democrats want to use this to make the current administration look bad and refuse funding for a very over-taxed, overwhelmed staff.
Evidently we are supposed to abandon these children into the country somewhere.

The Democrats are now calling the border detention facilities “concentration camps.” This is more of an insult to Jews and those who have lived through the holocaust than even to the Republicans. We seek to help, medicate, and provide clothing, shelter, and often education for the children. Concentration camps, by contrast, kidnapped children and families, worked them to death, tortured, gassed, and did medical experiments.

I think this kind of rhetoric has already done the Democrats in for 2020

In London, I heard dozens of protesters say they were protesting because Trump was a Nazi, and they really believed this was a fact. Ironically, Trump and the Queen were commemorating D-Day and the defeat of the Nazis. To show their anti-Naziism, some people (at least seven flags) were flying U.S.S.R. flags—supposedly they were on the side of the second most murderous regime.

Younger people may be fooled by the Nazi and Concentration Camp rhetoric, but most people still actively voting are not.

When the actual experts on the history of concentration camps, call those “detention centers” concentration camps, and you still have the nerve to call that “rethoric”, everyone knows how far gone you are.

No one who knows anything about concentration camps or the holocaust would call anything at the border a concentration camp. They are a welcome relief from what they have been through. Food, medicine, and beds are provided.

, @MrGrimm888 Maybe can say something about this,

@Yellowdog . I can’t speak for border agents. But I have read several articles about people along the border leaving gallons of water, and food at crossing sites. Civilians who don’t want immigrants here, destroy the supplies. Essentially, they are hoping that the immigrants die.

Camps.
I am still of the opinion that the camps, are a far cry from what I know about the Nazi camps. We aren’t killing millions, or starving them to death. Conditions are not ideal, and some could say that is intentionally done. But I think comparing the Nazi camps, with these immigrant camps, just makes liberals sound as ignorant as the conservatives claiming the immigrants are all criminals…

Nonpartisan Jewish group takes issue with Cortez comparing border detention centers to concentration camps.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/449288-nonpartisan-jewish-group-tells-ocasio-cortez-to-avoid-holocaust

I think I heard Bernie Sanders came out against the comparison also. I don’t know what other Jews in the spotlight are saying, but as a Jewish person myself I’m against the comparison.

As far as I’m concerned the Jewish voice matters most on this issue. I’m sure you can probably find Jews who agree with Cortez, but I haven’t heard many personally.

It reminds of the Republicans using the word Nationalism and not realizing that conjures up thoughts of Nazis blindly following and supporting their fuhrer. Although, not quite analogous.

Well. The behavior of rounding up certain types of people, and blaming them for a myriad of problems, was certainly a precursor to the Nazi camps. And we can’t ignore that Trump is demonizing the immigrants, in a similar fashion, to nationalists in the early 1900’s. And that his followers see themselves as victims, and the immigrants as the problem.
So. There are some warning signs here, that mirror the beginning of the Nazi movement. That’s why it’s important for people to call Trumpers out, and keep this from getting worse.

^^Call them out fine, but people aren’t systematically being killed! These aren’t our citizens being told to live in barracks with fences and gates and barely enough food.

^Relax. I agree with you.