How did you feel after night 1 of the Democrat debates?

I didn’t watch the debates, but I certainly wouldn’t disqualify a candidate on the basis of semantics. We are a democratic republic, or a representative democracy. Democracy is an American principle, whether it is the singular label for our system of government.

I heard Beto bombed and Gabbard called out Saudi Arabia.

Julian Castro had the best Spanish. Beto O’Rouke seemed to have the ability to speak Spanish fluently. Cory Booker’s Spanish was obviously just parroted.

I won’t vote for any of them. They’re far too liberal for me.

Beto looked absolutely horrible, tired, red eyes, etc…but I loved that a few of them spoke Spanish. Amy Klobuchar is interesting, she could probably get the moderate vote if she tried.

Saw a quck clip on the news over here & if that’s the best bunch of misfits they have to throw at Trump, may as well give him his second term now.

OMG. We are DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.

I liked Booker more than I thought I would.
I have no idea why people are so into Beto.
Castro seemed a bit arrogant, but I can tell he truly cares about people, which more than I can say for DeBlasio or Inslee.

Looking forward to tonight.

@tinyfaery The reason I mention it is because a friend said it disqualified those five candidates for him, just based on that. I thought that a little overboard myself, even for someone as politically involved & educated as he is-he’s a doctor.

Nobody thrilled me.

Spanish speaking was a nice touch. Good move.

For a supposed front-runner, Warren didn’t impress me. “She has a plan” for making plans.

Elizabeth Warren didn’t impress me either, and some networks have counted her as the front runner. Beto was horrible.

I was a little disappointed that Castro presented himself as a poor man of the people who crossed the border and all that. His mother Rosie Castro is very wealthy and runs everything far left in San Antonio.

It seems disingenuous to me that so many fake being poor, coming from a poor heritage, or get positions and prestige for belonging to ethnic groups and and Native American tribes that they have no or very little affiliation with, and no one calls them on it.

I’m pretty sure Warren or Bernie will get the nomination, but that’s just my own thoughts. Not really sure what anyone’s plans are for who is the best fit for the nomination. I wonder of they will reveal someone else like Michelle Obama or Opera at nomination time.

Wait, what?
So that Warren woman is considered their best shot?
Wow, worse than I thought, the Democrats are wholly unelectable as things stand.

Bernie Sanders should have been the frontrunner in 2016 and was cheated.

I think he probably has the best chance of beating Trump.

In 2016, most young voters under age 35 liked him.

@Yellowdog Agreed. His young followers can do some pretty neat stuff when they are motivated.

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/6/19/18661600/bernie-sanders-teens-gen-z-2020-democrats

Pigs must be flying. I agree with @Yellowdog.

Hey, I didn’t say I’d vote for him.

But I think he’s basically a good guy, and has the best chance of winning.

These tv “debates” are theater. Nothing of substance is discussed, and it really shouldn’t be. People can say whatever they want. A true understanding of policy and ideology needs a far greater understanding than can be presented in sound bites on a stage on corporate television. I will not be watching them.

After watching most of it, I don’t think the Democratic party is serious about de-throning Trump.

Well, I would POSSIBLY vote / have voted for Bernie Sanders over Republicans like McCain or Romney, had those been the choices.

And in the Republican primaries, Mike Huckabee over Trump or Cruz. And I voted for Bob Dole over Bill Clinton in 1996. But I think Trump is doing a better job than Cruz or Huckabee would have, and Bill Clinton I can’t even complain about as the Democrat running against Dole. Other than that, I think the best person usually wins. Gore would have been ok too if he had beaten Bush II but I’d’ve rather had Bush II than Gore during 9/11 2001

I liked McCain and would have voted for him. Bernie seems to be a lot of talk and not only don’t I agree with him I don’t think he is going to be able to accomplish what he says anyway.

@ARE_you_kidding_me Just between us jellies, who on that stage or among the candidates, do you think has a chance of winning against Trump?

And what did you think of Amy?

*Anyone else is free to answer as well, it’s my thread. :)

Right now, nobody. Even though the Sanders fanatics will be pissed at me.

Nobody has yet shown any excellence. Or leadership ability. Or given me any confidence that they can appeal to more than a tiny percentage of Americans.

No one has shown me any gravitas or depth. Right now they are a bunch of hooting barn owls.

My prediction: Mayor Pete will be the star tonight.

@Stache I’m interested to see what Sleepy Joe Biden has to say for himself.

I feel good that finally Dems and indie voters who want to get rid of trump could start making real decisions on who to support or not.

“How did you feel after night 1 of the Democrat debates?”
Utterly and completely apathetic. I paid zero attention.
And I will pay zero attention tonight.

Agree with Tom—it’s all about theater and getting the “knockout punch” sound byte.

@KNOWITALL I don’t think any of them stand a chance.

I didn’t watch as I feel at this point that they are all just saying what it is they feel they need to say in order to become the Dem candidate. Once we get closer to the election & the Dems have chosen a candidate, I will look closer at who they’ve chosen & at that point determine IF it’s someone that I can support. I’m encouraged that hillry isn’t running (so far). I have the patience to let this version of musical chairs play out & see who is sitting in the last chair. The Dems will have to totally screw the pooch to keep me from voting for their candidate. The only thing that I’m sure of is that my vote won’t go to trump!!! It’s up to the Dems to provide me with a worthy candidate!!!

I think it will go to Bernie Sanders.

He should have gotten the nomination in 2016

We are a democracy and a republic.

I felt like the hosts/moderators favored Warren, which annoys. I’m so sick of the media deciding who we should like. This happens every election. I feel the media was unfair to Jeb Bush 4 years ago during the debates, but I’m going off topic.

I really hated the candidates speaking Spanish! WTH?! This is an English speaking debate. I speak Spanish and this really annoyed me. First, I assume the debate is being dubbed or subtitled on a Spanish channel. Second, most voting eligible Spanish speaking Americans speak and understand English. Moreover, if they are tuned into the debate they almost for sure understand English. If O’Rourke and Booker want to Q&A in Spanish they should do some interviews with Telemundo and and Univision. In fact I recommend it.

I thought Julián Castro was very good. I thought Tulsi Gabbard did better than I expected. I was afraid she would come off too extreme, but she didn’t. I think her combination of being a Major (she is still a Major) and being overall against war and military action, except when necessary to defend ourselves, is really worth listening to. I don’t think she can win, but I think it would be great if she gets to be a voice in the next administration.

John Delaney has a story about his dad being separated as a child from his own parents and they wouldn’t let him tell the story. They didn’t give him enough chance to talk in general. Same with the Governor of Washington, Tim Ryan, and Diblasio.

I think Warren did well, but I think a lot of people won’t relate to her.

Klobuchar did well, but I don’t know if she stands out.

I really liked that there was some variety in the answers and it didn’t all sound like party line. Of course some of it we have heard over and over again, but some was new.

O’Rourke and Booker both I have no interest in. I didn’t love them before the debate, and now I’m really not into them. Then add the Spanish thing. Forget them in my mind.

I’m very happy so far. Very interested in hearing from the rest of them tonight.

I purposely am not watching the before or after shows, I didn’t even watch any of the morning shows. I want to just hear them all talk and think for myself for now.

I ate sloppy joes tonight because I hate them.

And Joe is Sleepy and Floppy. That is, flops on too many issues that should be fairly core and fundamental for a candidate.

@JLeslie Spanish being offensive would never cross my mind, we think so differently lol.

@KNOWITALL I don’t think I said offensive. My biggest worry is that I think it alienates some people, so I think it’s a bad decision to do it to win votes. I also think at an English speaking debate, stick to English, except for maybe a word everyone understands like adios.

@JLeslie I didn’t think the Spanish was annoying at all.

@Caravanfan It’s not that I think everyone thinks it’s annoying, I’m sure plenty of people didn’t mind, but plenty of people felt it was a mistake to use the Spanish. Even Joy Behar on The View thought it was a mistake and she is very outspoken about wanting to help the new immigrants and that we are a country of immigrants. It’s not that huge of a deal, it’s just one comment I have about the debate.

Okay, well, there are millions of voters who speak Spanish as their primary language.

Mike Huckabee was mentioned above. I considered him when he ran, but he had two major points against him.
Firstly, the DNC had an agenda to get either a woman, or a minority into office, so they were less supportive of other candidates.
Secondly, his plan for completely eliminating income taxes would have put millions of IRS and H&R Block employees out on the street. Just mentioning it cost him a huge chunk of registered voters.

I remember what a fiasco it was ripping through the crowd of democrats in 2007. I did not watch this time around.

Oprah? I can’t see her giving it a go, but if she were elected I guess she would be good at getting thing to pass through Congress.
“I know you will see the importance of passing this bill right away. Now, everybody look under your chairs. That is YOUR key, to YOUR BRAND NEW CAR!”

@Caravanfan My husband’s first language is Spanish. He was born and raised in Mexico. Millions of voters speak Spanish, but the ones watching the debate in English speak English also.

Most Spanish speakers who can vote for president are bilingual. Then you have someone like my MIL who is a citizen and can vote, who speaks almost no English, and you can bet she wasn’t watching that two hour debate, because she can’t understand it. She is the only person I know who didn’t learn to speak English after so many years, she is not the typical immigrant who becomes a citizen. If she votes, I really doubt she will, my bet is she will vote for whoever her daughter tells her to. Remember, becoming a citizen takes years, people voting for president are not new immigrants.

The debate is not a bilingual debate, if it was bilingual that would be a different story. This is just throwing in a little Spanish. I am all for translating the entire debate into Spanish, and other languages.

A Canadian friend said that in Canada using both languages would be respectful, but I don’t know how exactly that is done, I haven’t watched Canadian debates. Canada has two official languages, and for many years now everyone in the country is taught the other language in school. Everyone under a certain age understands basics in the other language. That is far from the case in America.

I don’t know how it’s done in countries like Switzerland that have many official languages. Or, places like Singapore, although Singapore I think uses English as the main language for transactions and government, and English is basically the common language people use even if their first language at home is something else. During a debate are they squeezing in the other languages to assure people they are going to help with the issues of that community? I don’t know. Beto and Cory didn’t just say “hello” to acknowledge Spanish speakers.

I’m going to write a Q asking how it’s done in other countries. I’m curious.

I haven’t watched the debates and I’m not paying a whole lot of attention to what the candidates are saying just yet. I feel like so much will happen between now and the election, and the big pool of them will be whittled down to one or two or three, so until then, I’m not investing a lot of concern on it.

I have my opinions on each of them but it doesn’t matter anyway if they’re not going to make the cut.

I did hear last night that Bernie Sanders said he will raise taxes on the middle class. If that’s the case, he doesn’t have my vote.

^ re: Bernie – So even though you’ll be paying less in overall “taxes”, who you pay these fees to means that you would not vote for him? How rich are you?

The number of people making > $250k/yr here on fluther is large, apparently.

@hmmmmm Why are you saying $250k in response to @jca2’s comment about taxes on the middle class?

I can’t answer for @jca2, but I know she works for the local government, so no way she is making $250k.

@jca2 I don’t remember Bernie saying that unless he meant everyone’s taxes would go up, but the net effect is less money paid out by each person for healthcare? I’m just guessing. It doesn’t make sense to me that Bernie would want to take more money away from the middle class.

^ We all know the details here, and we know the goal. Say you’re paying $5000/yr in health insurance premiums, co-pays, and prescriptions now, but with M4A you end up paying $2500 more in taxes, then you are paying less. This is not unknown to anyone. It’s also not unknown that Bernie identifies as a socialist specifically because he sees (and names) an enemy of @jca2 and everyone else who isn’t riding around in yachts and making all of the decisions. The fact that people would pretend to buy into the tax nonsense means that people are either extremely confused (highly unlikely) or being completely disingenuous.

There are objections one could make against M4A and attempts to de-commodify health care. You could object by saying that it’s important that tens of thousands of people die every year from lack of health care. You could object by saying that it’s critical to a democracy that small amounts of people get to profit immensely off of the death and suffering of people. But let’s not pretend that it’s about taxes.

@hmmmmmm I buy insurance through the ACA marketplace and my insurance is a fortune without the subsidy, and every year I have a good chance of having to pay back the subsidy. Every year the subsidy goes up. The tax payers is paying a fortune, and the money is going to the profit of the insurers. I want socialized medicine, but I have to admit my confidence in the government actually controlling costs if they do it in partnership with private insurers is really low. My insurance is about $15,000 a year for my husband and me without the subsidy. Our deductible is $15,000 combined.

In the ACA a person with a lot of money can get a bigger subsidy than an average lower middle class working person. It’s not set up well.

Do you use the ACA? Where are you getting your numbers?

@JLeslie: “but I have to admit my confidence in the government actually controlling costs if they do it in partnership with private insurers is really low”

M4A eliminates private insurers, that’s what “single payer” is all about.

@hmmmmmm We don’t know if a real single payer plan will get through.

I see Medicare in action where I live; I live in a retirement city. Doctors abuse it so much it’s criminal. I’d have more confidence if I felt like there was more investigation into fraud in the system. Fraud with private insurance and government.

Do you use the ACA for your insurance?

No, I do not use ACA for insurance.

@hmmmmmm I was just curious, because everyone who talks about how great it is doesn’t actually use it. I know you are not talking about ACA, but rather a true single payer plan, but I’m just talking about my concerns with how the federal government has done very little to control healthcare costs to this date even with this first step towards “universal” care.

Even with single payer I think it’s likely people with a lot of money will pay less than the average lower middle class person if it’s solely based on adjusted income.

I was – and have always been – opposed to the ACA (a Republican pro-private insurance policy). This has nothing to do with M4A.

Here’s one article about Bernie raising taxes on the middle class: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/06/28/sanders-middle-class-taxes-2020-democratic-primary-debate-nbc-miami-vpx.nbc

Ultimately, again, it doesn’t matter what we think of Bernie or anybody else unless they make the short list and Democratic primary. So, again, I’m not putting a whole lot of thought into it or advocating for any one of the candidates. I’m not arguing about it, I’m not debating about it.

Really, unless us Dems have someone that will defeat Trump, then none of it really matters anyway.

@hmmmmmm Except we got the ACA under the guise of getting closer to socialized medicine.

So, if Trump stays in office are you ok with him getting rid of the ACA?

@JLeslie: “Except we got the ACA under the guise of getting closer to socialized medicine.”

Huh?

@JLeslie: “So, if Trump stays in office are you ok with him getting rid of the ACA?”

Of course not. The pre-existing condition clause is important enough to keep. But we are f*cked if we don’t move to single payer now. The are no market solutions to this crisis, like every other crisis we face.

@hmmmmmm A lot of people say ACA was the compromise for now, on the way to socialized medicine. I hear this from both Democrats and Republicans. They feel it is one step closer to getting everyone covered, and to eventually having government run medical care.

^ Well, those statements can be dismissed out of hand.

@JLeslie My only thought regarding healthcare is that there is no way I want the govt running it. They can’t or won’t fix immigration, social Sec, etc….so why give them another thing to screw up. Other than that, I had some truly bipartisan thoughts last night about it, and I’m not 100% opposed.

@KNOWITALL: “My only thought regarding healthcare is that there is no way I want the govt running it.”

Even M4A doesn’t have the government “running it”. We’re talking about eliminating the private insurance industry – not nationalizing healthcare (unfortunately).

But maybe you’re right. Maybe we need many middlemen there to drive up costs and provide no value to people. Maybe we need a whole industry designed to profit off of denying healthcare.

@hmmmmmm (sigh) I was speaking to someone else about nationalizing healthcare on my Q. Odd flex….haha

@JLeslie I know your husband speaks Spanish as a first language. You mention it frequently. English is not the national language of the United States so there is no reason why another language could be spoken.

@Caravanfan To me, it kind of seemed…..respectful. Like a public acknowledgement of them and their various situations.

I know a little, but besa me culo is my favorite. Maybe we should have a fluther foreign language day and only post in another language. Sounds fun!

@Caravanfan It’s not about official language or not. I know we don’t have an official language. In fact we have a US territory where the most commonly spoken language is Spanish.

I’m only talking about the debate, and it just felt forced to me. O’Rourke is fairly fluent, but he sounded nervous, Booker sounded worse. It just came off as trying too hard.

It’s just my opinion, you can have a different opinion, I’m not trying to change your mind. Your reaction is your reaction. I’m actually glad if for the most part people were ok with it.

@KNOWITALL I thought it was fine too—the small sound clips I heard. Yes, it was pandering, but the whole damned debate is pandering.

@Caravan Yep. It felt like honest pandering lol.

Jeb Bush is fluent in Spanish, as a point of information.

On a side note, 4 years ago I was listening to a Republican debate driving in a car. Trump was doing his usual blather, Rubio was doing his usual Rubio pandering thing, and then Bush started talking and it was all policy. I didn’t agree with everything he said policy-wise but I remember thinking, “Holy shit, he’s smart.” I feel the same way about Warren. I would only vote for her if she were were the nominee as I prefer other candidates for the primary, but she’s smart. It’s too bad the American People weren’t looking for smart. They were looking for a demagogue.

@Caravanfan The media was horrible to Jeb Bush during the primaries. I was going to vote for Hillary, but I still was interested in the Republican candidates and watched the debates.

Jeb does have a brain in his head. When he was my Governor I disagreed with some of his policy, but some things he did well. I remember he made some joke during one of the debates and the media tore him to shreds. It was ridiculous, but they basically made it the beginning of the end for Jeb’s run. That was basically the turning point for me where I felt the media truly was trying to control politics and the people, rather than just supply information. I hate to say it, because I know that’s the Trump line. I don’t call it fake news, but I do call it twisting and borderline lying. The big difference between Trump and me is he thinks Fox is balanced and truthful, which is total bullshit. As far as I’m concerned Fox led the way to the propaganda we see today in politics.

I’ve seen Jeb speak Spanish many times. I don’t remember if he did it during the primary debates.

Yup. As I said, I don’t agree with Jeb much of the time on policy, and if he were President now I’m sure I’d be criticizing him, but I would give anything to have him President over Trump.