Do you think Trump will be impeached?

As much as I’d love to see him GO, I seriously doubt that anything will ever happen except a lot or preening!!!

The inquiry in to impeachment proceedings have started.
Impeachment is the next step. There are other items he has done (weakening military strength) like redirecting military funding to build his phallic symbol on the Mexican border; sending troops to Saudi Arabia against congress’ approval (not for protection of USA citizen just because… maybe Saudi prince is another BFF Putin) !

Waiting to see.
Somebody explain impeachment to me. Bill Clinton was impeached but not fired.

It’s now official there will be an investigation. The evidence will dictate whether he is formally impeached. If it comes to trial, he will be acquitted by the Senate. Hopefully, he will be turned out of office at the next election.

“Do you think Trump will be impeached and ultimately removed from office?”

Impeached by the House? Probably.
Convicted in the Senate and removed from office? No.

Once an impeachment inquiry passes the preliminary investigative stage, it is hard to stop without drafting and passing articles of impeachment. But the current Congress is simply not in a place to remove the president from office, let alone bar him from re-election (which, by the way, requires an additional vote).

This could all change after the election, of course. If enough pro-impeachment representatives and pro-conviction Senators get elected to Congress in 2020, then Trump might be removed regardless of how popular the idea is. But if the Democrats can manage such a swing in the composition of Congress, surely they can simply beat Trump at the ballot box instead.

“Would you like to see Trump impeached regardless of the political consequences?”

Removal from office is, quite literally, an overturning of the will of the people (objections to the current electoral process notwithstanding). And while it’s important to have a mechanism for removing someone from office, particularly in a system with strictly scheduled election dates, it should not be used lightly. This is why it is easier to argue for removal in situations where no other remedy is available (such as in the case of a lame duck president) or is too far off (a Senator found to be deeply corrupt in the first year of a six year term).

The other thing to remember is that impeachment is fundamentally a political process. By “political,” however, I don’t mean “partisan” (though impeachment can certainly be that). What I mean is that the question is not supposed to be whether or not Trump “deserves” (morally or legally) to be impeached, convicted, and removed from office. It is supposed to be whether or not his actions or behavior are incompatible with his office in a way that undermines its authority.

In the case of “high crimes and misdemeanors,” presidents aren’t supposed to be removed from office merely because they did something illegal, but because the nature and/or severity of their crimes demonstrate an abuse of power such that leaving them in office would be a threat to the integrity and continuity of our system of governance. This is why the efforts to remove Johnson and Clinton both failed: while both unambiguously violated the law, in neither case could two-thirds of the Senate be convinced that their actions were a threat to their office or our very democracy.

Putting all of this together, then, I would say that it is impossible to separate an impeachment process from its political consequences. The political consequences are the entire point of the proceeding. I have no problem with an investigation if there is enough evidence to sustain an inquiry. But if a president cannot be removed from office, and if an alternative remedy is close at hand, then it is probably best to focus one’s efforts there instead (which might be the actual purpose of the inquiry if the goal is just to uncover information that can be used against Trump during the general election campaign).

(I suppose this is a long way of saying “no” to the question at hand. If they have the votes to remove Trump from office, then they have the votes to beat him at the ballot box. And since the combined lengths of an impeachment proceeding and a Senate trial means that Trump wouldn’t be removed until near the election anyway, focusing on impeachment to the exclusion of other achievements that might help the Democrats win the election seems like political mismanagement. But again, the inquiry itself is a separate matter from actually pursuing impeachment and conviction.)

“Do you think this will only increase support for Trump and ‘hand him the election’?”

We simply do not have enough information to answer this question. While it has become conventional wisdom that impeachment proceedings only help whoever is under investigation, that is based on a sample size of one (Bill Clinton). Furthermore, it specifically excludes relevant examples from the sample (Richard Nixon, who was essentially forced to resign, and Andrew Johnson, who ended his sole term as president so unpopular that he wasn’t even renominated by his own party). An impeachment proceeding will surely energize that portion of the electorate that voted for Trump out of a sense of shared persecution, but those voters were arguably energized already when the notion of impeaching the president first came up (despite it being a fringe idea for so long). Nixon’s impeachment inquiry was unpopular at first, but the public came around as more information came out. We simply cannot know if the same thing will happen this time around. I tend to doubt it. But then again, my grandfather was sure that Nixon would serve out his full second term.

No he will not be impeached, and yes it will increase support. I wouldnt do it if the win was up for grabs but its understandable.

Impeached by the house? Absolutely.
Removed from office by the Senate? Doubtful, but possible.

Are there high crimes and misdemeanors?

Then, no.

@Yellowdog Your position is that trying to force a foreign government to help your reelection campaign is not impeachable?

I think Trump supporters will wear the persecution like a badge of honor. Whether it’s warranted or not.

At this point, it seems like their investment is emotional. Facts are an inconvenience. Shared persecution will only bolster them.

@filmfann Did anyone hear this firsthand, or was it actually said by Trump? Is anyone in the Ukraine said this happened?

We have tapes of Joe Biden doing exactly what you’re saying Trump did. and bragging about it.. and that, in fact, is what’s being investigated.

Redirecting Congress approved funding for the military to built his silly wall (YES)

Sending troops to defend his new BFF in Saudi Arabia against congressional approval (YES)

Stoopid dumb ass move to blackmailing Ukraine (YES)

How about winning the 2016 election? That was the first crime I heard the day after the election that he was going to be impeached for.

Do you guys REALLY think you have a case and are following the right procedure?
Hasn’t impeachment been proposed about eighty times already?

He has crossed th line three times this past week !

He keeps “Double dog daring” the Congress.

Next maybe he’ll by executive order remove the need for Congress and put his ass in for El Hefe for life.

A month ago, you were gong to “impeach” him for a “cover up.”

You didn’t have a crime, but he was covering SOMETHING up, obviously, since nothing was actually apparent.

Trump is a stump stupid criminal with no moral compass, @Yellowdog.

Because you say so?

Because he says so . . .. “I did that with the Ukraine”, he is a dumb ass, catch on yet @Yellowdog

Because I have a brain.

The transcript of said conversation is real. It exists. unredacted. Available tomorrow.

@yellowdog Pretty much the entire world knows Trump is an idiot and lacks empathy.

My take on The likelihood of the fool’s impeachment centers on the plethora of investigations already in progress regarding the idiot. This, when combined with his apparent ability to generate a new scandal daily with better than a year left in his term, leaves the possibility greater than likely.

The Left started the scandals and impeachment before he took office. There have been about three a week, sometimes only two.

Do you think anyone is fooled by this?

My sister didn’t vote for Trump because she believed he was a Russian agent. Making fools out of people for poltical gain doesn’t have lasting results, no matter how many you can come up with.

The majority who didn’t vote for Trump are wondering why all the economic and international crises that was predicted hasn’t happened

Your hero is done, dude. Like every other person with a brain on the plant knew he would be.
Welcome to your mess @Yellowdog.

Can you not see that there is absolutely nothing there?

The problem is with what we DO see. There is nothing POSITIVE there—no integrity, no intellect, no honor. Just one sleazy pile of perpetually lying scum.

@Yellowdog He has admitted it, and his lawyer admitted it.

Yes he will be impeached but as to the when that is the real question?
Hopefully before he causes U.S. to go to war?

@Dutchess_lll Impeachment is a two part process. The House of Representatives will evaluate the crimes committed and, if impeachment is warranted, will vote to impeach. If the vote is in favor, that president is impeached. But then step two kicks in…the Senate. The Senate has the job of convicting or not. They take the information sent over from the House and review it. They can vote to convict or not. If they vote to convict, a punishment for the crime is determined, up to and including removal from office. If the Senate votes to not convict, as they did with Clinton, it ends there. All that happens is that POTUS goes down in history as having been impeached.

My guess is that the Dems in the House will call for impeachment. They are that desperate and believe it will help them in the 2020 election. I personally don’t believe there has been a crime to impeach on, but then the Dems are big on that fact. They have been calling for his impeachment since before he was sworn into office….before he took a single official action. So I think all impeachment efforts from the Dems are nothing but political posturing.

I think he might get impeached. The irony is it would probably be in his last days of his 4 years term.
If he gets impeached he might still be able to run again in the next election.

There is a hint of what was said in the report of the meeting on the official website of the President of Ukraine It says this:

“Donald Trump is convinced that the new Ukrainian government will be able to quickly improve image of Ukraine, complete investigation of corruption cases, which inhibited the interaction between Ukraine and the USA.”

Corruption is a problem in Ukraine but I think we should see the full transcript of what was said. Trump has promised to make it available.

My understanding is that he will likely be impeached. But he will unlikely be actually removed from office. And such a thing, will play right into his claims of conspiracy. Strengthening his sheep’s idiotic thinking that he is a victim. With the mounting evidence that he is unfit for office, this may force Pelosi, to impeach him. But don’t discredit his foolish supporters. Recall, that Bill was impeached. Yet his supporters, did not find this , a big deal. It’s likely that the situation will follow a similar path. He may actually gain support, from impeachment….

And at this point, he has no real evidence of a crime. Although, he likely did commit, yet another abuse of his power. IMO. He should definitely be impeached. But politics, may work in his favor. At least, to his idiotic supporters…

In real life, evil wins….

Over this…no. They would be smart to wait for an actual crime that has the potential of removing him from office. This course they are taking now is just dirty politics, especially if the transcript is released and there is nothing there.

This is a easy out for Republicans in the Senate. A chance to wash the stink off. All the Brownshirtting of the last three years can be washed away with a single vote. If they think Trump can’t win in 2020 this is one way to get rid of the fleas.

After years of fawning over Bush v.2 and all that bullshit the Republicans were sure quick to throw him under the bus once he was no longer politically relevant.

This is it folks. One vote and they can be the person that held the president accountable after years of enabling abhorrent behavior. And they can just hope people only remember that last vote the next time they are up for election.

If only the people here had that luxury. The stink is in your fingernails, deep.

Until the latest whistleblower incident, I did not think there would be an impeachment vote. Now I think it is fairly likely, and that the Democrats have the votes to pass it.. If the evidence indicates that Trump broke the law, he must accept the consequences. The GOP is going to have a hard time in the Senate justifying an acquittal. Nobody, even the President, is above the law.

The “whistleblower” does NOT work for U.S. Intelligence (so why did he/she even have this information ???) and has no firsthand knowledge of the telephone call, only heresay

So, now, as of fifteen minutes ago, the ACTUAL transcript is released around 9:10 a.m.

Trump and the new elected leader DO want to get to the corruption / extortion committed by Joe Biden, as was discussed by both in the call.

But there was nothing about Trump threatening to withhold money the way Joe Biden bragged about, as quid-pro-quo for calling off the investigation into Hunter Biden.

Once again, the Dems and their complicit media whip the nation into a frenzy only to have it expose their own Bidenesque extortion mess.

Yes, I want trump impeached regardless of the political consequences to Democrats.

The only thing that Trump is guilty of is beating Clinton. I don’t think that that is an impeachable offense.

No Trump will not be impeached by the House. Democrat leaders in charge are too smart for that. The impeachment talk is all about political postering to appease the far left radicals and try to makeTrump look bad.

I think the Dems will; in Technicolor; show all of his transgressions!
But his followers believe he is the “second coming”! There are some that would hand him a second clip after he empties the first into all the people of color on Fifth Avenue. He his large and charge of this dictatorship.

Just saying. SMH

@Yellowdog , Do you have any links to support what you are saying? How do you know Trump is innocent and Biden is guilty? Where is the link to news about the 9:10 transcript release?

I don’t like Trump’s mannerisms and tweets and past womanizing. However I’m voting for him in 2020. Why?
I think that Trump and Senate Republicans are the only politicians standing in the way of socialism.
Yes I think that smaller government, less bureaucracy, lower taxes, less regulation, more personal freedom is best for capitalism. Yes I think that capitalism offers a better quality of life (for all) than socialism. I’ve worked hard so that I can be in control of my life especially in my last years of life (I don’t need or want Social Security). I want to control my own healthcare through private companies (which are far better care than government run healthcare). I want to employ the very best doctors that I chose, not doctors chosen for me by bureaucrats sitting on perfumed pillow in an office someplace. Also I think that if it looks like a normal healthy baby then don’t kill it (as long as the mother’s life is not in danger).

@LostInParadise The Transcript is released and being read widely on the radio.

The transcript does not support what you have been saying. Biden strongarmed / extorted the Ukraine, and this is wanted to be investigated by both sides. The conversation between President Donald Trump and Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky reveals that both were on good terms.

There has been corruption within our own government (Biden) and the Ukraine gov’t which both presidents are now wanting investigated, and Trump has invited Ukraine to continue their investigations and encouraged Ukraine to share any useful information with Rudy Giuliani

Considering that extortion was committed, even bragged about, by a former U.S. vice president, it is only prudent that we should get to the bottom of it.

Impeached? Most likely.

Removed from office? Highly unlikely.

@Darth_Algar If ONLY they could find a crime, impeachment would probably at least be voted on at the house level.

@Yellowdog , I found a link to the release of notes on the transcript. According to the notes, Trump requested an investigation of Biden and offered assistance. There was no explicit quid pro quo, but it sure looks odd that Trump dropped assistance to Ukraine shortly before the call and resumed it afterwards. Even without quid pro quo, there is something of questionable legality with asking a foreign government to dig up dirt on the leading Democratic potential nominee in the 2020 election.

As if Biden’s the issue. LOL

The issue is trump clearly leveraging the arms support in search of ammunition against Biden. What—-trump is playing Sherlock investigating Biden for the sake of Ukraine? LOL!

That’s the BS he’s selling now and as usual his enablers are buying.

Asking the president of a foreign country to investigate the son of a political rival? It is obviously wrong and Trump continues to drag American politics deeper and deeper into a bottomless gutter. The man has no shame but he will probably survive this, unfortunately.

Joe Biden stongarmed the Ukraine into firing their chief investigator of Hunter Biden or they would not be given a billion dollars in U.S. aid / loan guarantees. That is what is being investigated.

We don’t have a transcript, we have a memo.
Impeached, yes, convicted and removed, no. Clinton was impeached. Surely everything Trump has done warrants the same.

@Yellowdog Shokin was fired because of the perception that he was soft on corruption. No evidence has come to light so far of wrongdoing by the Bidens. As I said before I don’t think Joe Biden would have bragged about getting Ukraine’s chief prosecutor fired if he did it to protect his son.

Seriously it’s just laughable the excuse of trump only investigating Biden. It’s only for people with the lowest IQ to accept. Or people lying to themselves. You’re hilarious you trump fanatics.

Lord he’s on TV now telling what a great man he is and how bad Biden is. He preempted judge Judy!

^^LOL The poor old man needs a straitjacket. He’s in total panic mode.

He was on tv, which I recorded, speaking of the condition of America since he became POTUS. He was anything but in a panic. Half asleep, actually. If I were being considered for impeachment I would most likely refrain from listing all my bad points too.

I found it interesting. @LostInParadise gave a link that had the transcript on it, but it also had pages of interpretation and innuendo. I found this link

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-ukraine-call-transcript-read-the-document

That has only the transcript….no interpretations, no explanations…just the transcript so you can read it for yourself and decide what you see

^ Don’t you think the Republicans should make up their own minds as well without talking points?

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/09/25/white-house-accidentally-sends-anti-impeachment-talking-points-to-democrats/23820143/

Schiff’s take.

https://youtu.be/sNbR1h_FFdw

To me. It sounds like both Biden, AND Trump, abused their power. Both should be investigated, and held accountable to the law…..
Then. Let the pieces fall, where they should….

What’s left to investigate? The transcripts are out. Interviews with both Trump and Zelensky have been conducted and aired.

^Then there should be no investigation, of Biden either?

@Yellowdog The transcript isn’t out. It’s a five page summary of a 30 minute phone call.

The memorandum released by the Justice Department is not, according to the administration, a verbatim transcript. The text, according to a footnote, is the record of the notes and recollections of the officers and National Security Council policy staff “assigned to listen and memorialize the conversation in written form.”

@Stache That is about as close to a verbatim transcript as you can get. It certainly isn’t a summary. What you forget is that much of the conversation was done with interpreters. Trump says something, an interpreter tells Zelenskyy, Zelenskyy replies and another interpreter tells Trump. That is why it was a 30 minute phone call and the transcript doesn’t read like a 30 minute conversation. But all these phone calls with foreign leaders have a strict guideline for transcription. Two separate individuals listen in and write down what they hear. Those notes are then compared and an overall conversation is generated. the notes and the comparison go on to be reviewed several times. What you get is something like what you see there. Unfortunately Mr. Peabody’s Way Back machine isn’t available to take people back to listen in for themselves.

So you don’t believe the administration when they say it isn’t verbatim? The administration you defend every day on these pages.

@seawulf575 . Is correct in the part about transferrers/innterppterators. Work leaders , often rely on such things, to discuss matters.

In fact, some interpreters, can or cannot properly translate information, because of lingduisitsal differences.
However, many countries do have the capabilities of understanding English, as is it the most common 2ng language, that they speak.

At a UN gathering, most leaders have a earpiece, to extrapolate what the other countries are saying. Some dialects, don’t even have the same wording, as the Latin based Engish. I don’t think that this argument carries much weight, in regards Ukrainian, vs English, but it should be a factored in variable… Translators, are supposed to be experts, on the languages that that translate. However, it would be a mistake, not to mention this variable. I don’t believe it so, but , there could have been communication difficulties. To view the situation, objectively, one has to face it that in to the equation.
As the wulf knows, I despise Trump, but this is a variable, worth consideration.

Especially, considering Trump, is likely to miss-speak, or miss-interpret the conversation.

I still believe that Trump deliberately, extorted the Ukraine. But…. This variable has to have culpability. Especially considering Trump’s understanding of international talks, and his blatant ignorance of his responsibility, regarding the laws of communication…

However, in the US, ignorance, does not justify, breaking the law…. I’m just not sure how it affects, a standing POTUS?...

Whether or not he’s actually impeached remains to be seen but I don’t think he will be removed from office.

It just continues to astound me what a fuck up he is and yet people justify every single thing he does. Grab em by the pussy comment? Oh, that’s just locker room talk. Make fun of a physically challenged reporter? No biggie. Call women fat? He tells it like he sees it! Staff jumping ship or getting fired every week? Doesn’t every organization churn staff? Roll back environmental protections? there are no environmental problems. This is just one of the Earth’s cycles. The list goes on and on.

And the famous: “But what about Obama?

It also always astounds me to see people who are on public assistance and yet they like Trump. Ok, so you are for someone who is into cutting social programs but you rely on a social program to live. Makes a lot of sense.

@jca2

But, they think, those cuts will never effect them. They’ll effect those people. You know, the other people. The people who don’t deserve it.

Not public assistance, but on a similar note I read this article awhile back about a women who immigrated to the US illegally back in the 1970s, took advantage of Reagan’s blanket amnesty in the 1980s and was later able to gain US citizenship, and then later voted for Trump. Under Trump’s policies her husband, an illegal immigrant, was deported.

Careful what you vote for. You just might get it.

Pelosi has to start an impeachment inquiry to find out what Trump did. HA!

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/26/us/politics/trump-whistle-blower-spy.html

This right here is an impeachable offense. These are not words of an innocent person. He has threatened retaliation.

As I’ve said before: for a man who constantly proclaims his innocence he sure does go out of his way to make himself look guilty as hell.

What we do know is this:

On 18 July Trump ordered a White House aide to hold back $400 million of military aid to the Ukraine.

On 25 July Trump speaks with Ukraine’s newly elected leader in a 30 minute phone call. During this call it seems Trump asked the Ukrainian leader to investigate corruption claims involving the son of Joe Biden, a possible rival to Trump in next year’s presidential election.

On 9 September Congress learns of the whistle-blower’s complaint about the call, but is blocked by the Trump administration from viewing it.

On 11 September Military aid for the Ukraine is cleared for release.

This would seem to be highly unethical if not illegal and I’m glad Congress is investigating. I watched Joseph Maguire, the acting Director of National Intelligence, being grilled by the House Intelligence Committee this afternoon and while he looked uncomfortable at times he seems a decent man and he gave his backing to the whistle-blower.

trump’s sleazy advisers are good. They attribute the delay to you know, just making sure the money’s not gonna go to waste BS.

Along with trump again and again painting America as a victim asking why other NATO members don’t help Ukraine enough and it’s only the US forking money.

It definitely works for narrow-minded sheeple who have zero imagination and swallow everything the reality TV show host says without question.

I read that today @Stache. Jesus. The man can not shut the hell up. The time forb laying low and staying quiet is upon him…..but no. Throw a Mafia style temper tantrum instead. 3 years and he still hasn’t figured out that every single.word he says is monitored. Every. Single. Word. But he keeps on blathering.
I heard he threw Pence under the bus. “He did it too!!!”

@flutherother Yes, let’s review the timeline a little because you left out one important date: 12 September. The official date of the Whistleblower complaint. So how did Congress learn about the whistleblower complaint before that? How did the media? Oh! and let’s not forget that the complaint was never forwarded to Congress. So how did they hear about it? In other words, it isn’t really a valid whistleblower complaint…it is a smear job. Face it…the Dems and the media overplayed their hands.

^Wrong. You’re giving the Dems, too much credit. They apparently, don’t know what they’re doing.

@seawulf575 Congress learned of the whistleblower material because Michael K Atkinson, Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, told them about it in a letter dated 9 September. He had already informed the Acting Director of National Intelligence, Joseph Maguire, of the existence of this material on 26 August and the Acting DNI was required to forward such material to the congressional intelligence committees within 7 calendar days but this was not done.

@flutherother so what you are saying is the IG was the one that broke protocol? Interesting. So doesn’t that put doubt on his determination as to the quality of the complaint? His job was to take the complaint, determine if it was valid and important, and then pass it along to the director of the DNI to make the determination as to whether it needs to go to Congress or not. So if what you are saying is true, that Atkinson took matters into his own hands and went to Congress on his own, then he violated protocol. He forwarded the complaint and when it didn’t get passed to Congress, he decided to circumvent the process. Looking at that, it sounds amazingly like he is part of a smear campaign, doesn’t it? So how valid and urgent was this whistleblower complaint really?

No, there have been previous cases where the IG has contacted the congressional committees direct. You should bear in mind too that the Acting DNI is supporting the IG in this case and is on record as saying the report was credible and made in good faith.

@seawulf575 You are missing the point that Atkinson followed protocol, but blew the whistle when the DNI failed to follow suit. THIS is when he blew the whistle, and the repercussions are not pretty for the snakes Trump has surrounded himself with as shielding. It now appears that once again others will pay for the slime required in shielding the fool.

@flutherother the acting DNI can support the IG determinations, but it is not the IG’s place to second guess his boss. This whole matter becomes much more entangled since it involves a conversation between two heads of state. That is why the DNI went to the DoJ legal team to get a clarification as to whether it was appropriate to forward it to Congress. Again…the procedures were followed, but the IG stepped out of line to go right to Congress, and possibly the media as well. The media was involved either by the IG or by the Dems in Congress. Either way it was highly irregular and borders on a breach of security.

@stanleybmanly you are missing a huge piece, and I suspect it is willfully ignored. The DNI is not required to follow suit with the IG. The IG makes his determination and then forwards that determination to the DNI. It is the duty of the DNI to make the determination of whether to forward it to Congress or not. And by all accounts, it looks like he took efforts to make the proper determination. Just because you don’t like his determination doesn’t mean he did wrong…it just means you don’t like his decision. And you support your dislike of this decision with alterations of facts and innuendo that are based in your hatred of Trump.

Well one thing is certain. The issue of whether or not the DNI
made the proper decision will now be addressed with less than pleasant implications for that individual concerning his motives! Whether I like it is immaterial, and no alteration of the facts is necessary to state that we shall discover whether or not the Congress whose job it is to oversee such matters “likes it” as much as I do.

Having listened to the Acting DNI give evidence yesterday I have a lot of sympathy for the awkward position he found himself in over this matter. He was required to hand the information he had been given to Congress but at the same time he didn’t want to embarrass his superiors and get dragged into a political controversy. I believe he acted carefully and with honour bearing in mind that his ultimate responsibility is to the American people and not their elected representatives.

@flutherother Let’s be clear about something…He is not required to hand the information he had been given to Congress. He is required to review it and determine if it should go to Congress. In this case, there was a lot of gray area and so he asked for help. But he is in a delicate situation because he is being asked questions by a group of people with an agenda, that have proven they will ignore anything that doesn’t support that agenda and will spin anything they can to help them.

No, that’s not true. Cases like this one which the IG considers of “urgent concern” are required to be forwarded to Congress along with any comments the DNI sees as fitting within seven calendar days. I think I already made that point several comments ago.

@seawulf575 He had better hope that the gray area is NOT around defending the President from the wrath of those people with an agenda or his ass will fry for it. It is NOT his business to factor the agenda of said group be it vindictive, or otherwise.

Psst psst @stanleybmanly his boss is vindictive; you know Bill Barr the protector of all things Trump ! ! !

Was the whistle blower part of his National Defense team?

^^Not sure it matters. Anyone who’s against the orange clown is a weasel blower.

I just wondered.

@mazingerz88 does that mean you blow weasels?

Only weasel shape balloons.

So anti-Trumpers should be easy to spot. They will all be blowing up weasel shaped balloons.

No. They are easy to spot ,based on common sense.

They are weaselly identified.

Dam, you’re good!

Dang. You weasle blowers are good!

Well it appears this question has been answered.

I’ve been camping since Thursday….I just checked the news. They’re going for it!

I don’t think this question has been answered at all. The House has started “an impeachment inquiry” which is actually nothing. It doesn’t really exist as any part of impeachment. If they want to impeach, they present their case and they put it to a vote. What the Dems are doing is pandering to their radical left. They created something called an impeachment inquiry to make it look like they are going for it. The gullible far-left will believe they are going for it when, what they are actually doing is trying desperately to dig up something…ANYTHING…that they can actually impeach Trump on. So far they have squat. But that doesn’t stop them from wasting time and money that could be used to address real problems in this country.

Oh! and I guess they are blowing weasels too. Let’s not forget that!

They started sending subpoenas out yesterday @wulfie. It’s escalating pretty quickly. I heard they may be done by Thanksgiving.

@seawulf575 How do the weasels feel about getting blown?

The weasels like it. A LOT!!! Because that’s how weasles are.

@Dutchess_lll subpoenas only mean they want people to come talk to them. That doesn’t mean anything. And it would be part of an effort to dig up anything. Face it…the Dems are using the power of their positions solely for political reasons. They are not working for the people…they are working for themselves. Of course that also applies to many Repubs on many topics, but this particular created drama is all on the Dems.

Pssst…here’s a secret. Tell your reality TV show host to stop committing impeachable acts. Mmmkay?

Pssst…here’s a secret. He hasn’t committed any impeachable acts. Mmmkay?

Yeah. In the Twilight Zone.

Thank You Senator Wulfie. Case closed.

Talking about the Twilight Zone this episode looks interesting.

^^TZ nailed it.

@mazingerz88 and @stanleybmanly you seem to think he has committed an impeachable act. In fact you made it plural…acts. So list them. Show your proof. Not innuendo or allegations…actual proof. You want to ridicule me for challenging that, go ahead….prove me wrong. Oh wait! I forgot…you don’t have to actually have facts to back it up.

Deflect much !

@seawulf575 Facts to you are whatever blather comes out of Trump’s tweets and mouth.

How are things with Putin’s Chef?

Those Dems who get paid 150K a year ( I think ) are working on getting the proof. And some of those Reps getting 150K a year would try and defend the orange clown however they can. That’s American Democracy for you. It takes time but the wicked and the filthy eventually gets kicked out of the people’s house.

Your orange blob and his fanatics set the tone since day one, don’t cry when you’re losing.

At this point, I think will/should be impeached. But. It will gallvinizan, his base’s perceptoin, of him…

@Tropical_Willie How am I deflecting much? I have stayed right with the topic. I have laid a challenge to tell me the impeachable acts (plural) Trump has done…with the proof. You want to jump in…again…with nothing either. Feel free to take up that challenge.

@mazingerz88 in other words…he hasn’t committed any impeachable offenses that you can actually name. So your entire snarky comment to me was wrong. Got it.

Would love to say to you let’s powwow again in 2020 but we’re still a long way off and I occasionally temporarily get addicted to fluthering. Not sure how long this particular episode would last.

Snark Snark.
So the President has the Ukraine President contact his private lawyer (Giuliani is not the conduit for USA politics only Trump’s business as usual gangster mode conduit)

Remember he’s in it for the money, can’t get more money if you lose the election so any means to get to the end for more money!

^^I’m afraid trump has already secured his cash cow after his WH gig. Saudi Arabia and Russian oligarchs know he’s their friend. He just have to stay relevant afterwards and continue projecting that he still has influence over where the local political contour is heading towards. The con is still on, see?

Can he stay relevant when he’s in jail?

That’s the thing. However he leaves the White House, his legal difficulties apart from his Presidential shenanigans have never stopped mounting. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if he declared bankruptcy and fled the country to escape his creditors and legal obligations.

I’ve said in the past we’ll wake up some day and our wonderful president will be no where to be found.

Seems the wheel of American political justice moves slowly but it does move. I’m just hoping it goes towards my preferred direction. Lol

Seems Russia already made a request for those phone conversations between trumputin to not be released. Not sure what’s going to happen to that request.

I keep hoping they waited until they had so MUCH shit on him that we’d have no choice but to fire him.
YOU’RE FIRED!!!! Or “you’re fried” works too.

@Tropical_Willie It was the Ukrainian president that wanted to interact with Giuliani. Kinda hard to say that was something underhanded when Trump didn’t suggest it. But then, the left really believes that Trump holding up money to Ukraine was some sort of coercion that was addressed on the phone call. To get there you have to actually avoid the fact that the Ukraine didn’t know anything about the money being held up until after the phone call was over. So really, there was no coercion.
As for Trump being in it for the money…is that why he donates his salary as POTUS to government entities? He doesn’t keep any of it. Seems an odd thing to do for a guy that is only in it for the money.

@mazingerz88 help me understand something. Is Trump in bed with Russia or with Ukraine? After all, they are not friendly with one another. Seems like if he was in bed with one, he couldn’t be in bed with the other. But I guess if you repeat something enough you can start believing it. So yes, I see how the con is still on.

trump is in bed with himself and his bank account and I’m guessing his family legacy as well. The rest is details.

Yeah, but really…the devil is in the details. For instance…there is that detail that you claimed he was in it for the money. Then I told you the truth…that he isn’t keeping any money from his salary. Now you are trying to walk that back. Typical.

Are you that naive? Lol trump giving up his salary should be as clear as total BS for any adult with a mature enough brain.

How much does his golf playing costing taxpayers? Jesus Christ almighty. Your trolling kills me.

Shocking that you are underestimating your idol. The orange swamp lord only thinks in terms of millions and billions.

@seawulf575 . I know, that inyour opinion, you’re just debating against “claims, of Trump’s wrong doings, without fact,” buy has it ever occurred to you that the sheer number of claims, makes it highly probable that Trump DID do at least some of the hundreds of things he’s been accused of?

You’re basically saying that billions of people, are conspiring against Trump. Do you realize how foolish that is? Especially, considering none of them have anything to gain from his downfall?......

THINK…..

Nobody wants his money. Nobody wants anything from him. Everyone is just pointing out that he’s a sack of shit.

There are dozens of wealthy people in this world. Why is Trump, the only one being singled out? The only one that has everyone out to get him? There is absolutely NO rationality, to your defense of the man….

Don’t give me that ” I’m just pointing out that he hasn’t really been caught crap.” You don’t do that for Obama, or Hillary. You don’t defend ANYONE. Just Trump… Wow. Given that information, I can’t begin to imagine why you are perceived the way you are here…

There are some far more interesting points to opine on. Example.
Why did Monica Lewinsky, save a cum stained dress? Or at least, not wash it? THAT was a conspiracy…..

@seawulf575 it isn’t the fool’s salary you dummy. He can give that away as a joke. If you lived here and made it to the 4th grade, you would realize that. It is the blatantly corrupt slimy
use, of his office to rake in revenue through his tacky enterprises like his gangland style hotels and resorts. And Grimm makes more than a valid point. It isn’t that there are claims of Trump’s malfeasance and scuzzy dealing. It is the very fact that he is the product of a lifetime of such irregularities and now the sheer numbers of such accusations against a man with the proven moral fiber of snot means that he will be under investigation after he is dead and gone.

I wasn’t trying to be mean @seawulf575 . I was drunk… But, after rereading my post. I can’t disagree with what I said.

If ,say Al Franken, had more than just one person who accused him of misconduct, I would not expect you to defend him. But, Trump has literally hundreds of claims of bad business dealings, and has a habit, of self inflicting damage on himself.

ALL of the things that I judge him for, came from HIS OWN MOUTH.

I think that we agree, that most politicians, are corrupt. Yet. You defend Trump, like you hold him to different standards.

If it walks like a duck. Quacks like a duck…........

trump voters mindlessly ascribed the persona of a strong leader to the orange blob ignoring the fact that they voted a hotel owner, a failed casino businessman and a reality TV show host to the most powerful office in the land. Brilliant!

@mazingerz88…. I STILL can’t fathom how they hell they attributed even one positive attribute to him.

@Dutchess_lll It is the make-up and hairdo ! Just saying ;>)

And NOW his minions have taken out a $50,000 hit on the whistleblower’s identity!
Jesus. It’s like the Mafia only with stupid people.

@MrGrimm888 Has it ever occurred to me that out of the hundreds of things Trump is accused of he might have done some? Absolutely it has. But here’s the problem: When you try to make everything Trump has ever said or done into something that is a horrible impeachable offense AND you have to lie and make stuff up to do that, you lose credibility. And that is what the left has done. The things Trump has said or done that are tacky, odd or just down right wrong are generally not criminal in nature. And certainly aren’t criminal enough to warrant an impeachment. But look at all the lies that have been created and passed as “fact” concerning Trump. And look at the millions and millions of dollars we have wasted trying to turn those lies into fact. THAT is what I am talking about. And most of the “scandals” are just that…things that were alleged that had no basis in fact. And the sad part is that there usually are at least some bit of truth in them. Take Stormy Daniels as a perfect case. Did Trump have an affair with Daniels? Most likely. Is that a crime? No. He asked her to sign a NDA and gave her money to not talk about it. Is that a crime? No. But then out comes the allegation: He used campaign funds to do it. Was there any proof of it? No…it was an allegation of wrong doing. And suddenly it is a “fact” to Dems and the liberal media and it becomes a “scandal”.
Let’s face it…I could accuse you of having illicit sex with a goat. Gee, I saw you at a petting zoo once…you were awfully friendly with that goat…You must have had sex with it!!! I just made the allegation…Does that make it true? No. But now I’ll bring out other “witnesses” that claim you had sex with it. None of them will have actual first hand knowledge, though. Did that prove my allegation? No. And I’ll bring out “experts” that will go on and on about how certain people like beastiality and how it is possible, given some obscure personality trait, that you are one of them. Did that prove my allegation? No. But meanwhile, 10 different news outlets are blasting it 24/7 that you had sex with a goat. So the obvious answer is that it is true…why would they lie?
That is the sort of silly shit that has been going on for the past 3 years. And the sad part is that there are many weak minded fools that will buy into every word of it.

Again, the flaw in THAT argument is that no one need invent irregularities to hang on Trump. Trump is DEFINED by sleazy dishonesty—a reputation he has constructed his entire life and only accelerated with his appearance on the political stage. If indeed half the allegations against him were invented, the remaining half would still be so numerous and deplorable that he would still hold the title for the most crooked figure in the history of American politics. In truth the actuality is that the man’s reputation is so horrendous that it is difficult to invent disparaging things about him beyond plausibility. In fact the man’s character is so severely deformed that it wouldn’t matter if you are correct in your silly idea that the fool is the victim of invention. Your claim amounts to the accusation that a turd is being maligned by the left, press, courts, Democrats, Congress. And confronted with the impossibility of disputing the fact that the turd is INDEED a turd, you are reduced to arguing that it smells less than is claimed. There really is little question that the man is a criminal. The only question is which of the crimes will put him out of business.

@seawulf575 . As always, I respect your opinion. However, I have not seen you go to such lengths, to defend Obama, or anyone else.

Why you defend Trump, and his *hundreds * of allegations, is beyond my comprehension.

Your goat fucked analogy, is foolish. There are no tapes of me saying that I did such a thing. Apparently, I must repeat myself. I judge Trump, based on his own words. FROM HIS LIPS
. There is not a conspiracy by billions of people, smearing him.
He is smearing himself,...And he’s doing a great job, of it.

If you choose to deny, his actual words, I cannot help you.

I am disappointed, that you cannot find fault, in his own declarations…

He’s a career criminal…

@seawulf575 I wouldn’t accuse Trump of having sex with a goat but if the White House were forced into releasing a video showing Trump at the petting zoo with his boxers around his ankles I would be entitled to be a little suspicious. And when Trump then tweets that it is all a plot by the Democrats and that Biden regularly has sex with goats I would feel my suspicions were pretty well confirmed.

Unless, of course, we heard Biden admitting to it on a widely-circulated video clip.

And Trump is asking for a server (?) and something about Crowdstrike, not a political “opponent”

Yeah, trump’s thug Miller is already saying trump is the whistleblower and the actual whistleblower is a member of the deep state. These thugs are nuts.

A Okay @Yellowdog
A “whatabout Biden” gives Trump a gives a get out a Jail Ticket! SMH

Deep state = BULLSHIT…

@MrGrimm888 I will tell you that Obama didn’t put up with one tenth of the lies coming at him as Trump has. He didn’t have intelligence agencies spying on him when he was a candidate for POTUS. He didn’t have Repubs making stuff up and then getting the media to broadcast it 24/7. He didn’t have the Repubs spending millions and millions of tax dollars in an attempt to take opposition research against Obama and try using it as evidence of wrongdoing by Obama.

As for my analogy, let me remind you…there were no tapes of Trump saying he was working with Russia. There were no tapes of Trump saying he used campaign funds to buy off Stormy Daniels. There was NO evidence of Trump’s travel ban being a “Muslim Ban”. There was no story about Trump drawing a line on an old hurricane prediction picture and continuously defending a make believe prediction that it would hit Alabama. There was an interview where Trump said there some very fine people on both sides of the protests surrounding a statue of General Lee. The left went crazy saying he was saying white supremacists and Neo-Nazis were the very fine people. But if you read the entire interview, he specifically excluded them. He denounced them, he said we didn’t need people like that or like Antifa. ALL of these things were creations of the media and the left. And you believed every one of them. Because you heard them repeated over and over again.
So saying you have to have tapes is just not true. And I am disappointed that you cannot find fault in the lies that are created and fed to you.

This wasn’t done to Obama because he wasn’t lying and cheating and surrounded by lying and cheating staff like trump is.

^^Should have been a no brainer. But you know, propaganda.

@seawulf575 . Do you not recall that Trump himself, was a lead actor, in the “birther conspiracy? ”
People all over the Internet, said Obama was going to take our guns, and put us in death camps. He was allegedly, a Muslim, seeking to take over America. There were dozens of right wing conspiracies, about Barry. You’re being deliberately obtuse.

Antifa, was/is, a reactionary group. Obama’s conspirators, had NOTHING to go on. And after 2 terms, NOTHING they said came to fruition.

There are hundreds of videos, of Trump saying everything I have accused him of. And plenty of tapes, with him saying stupid shit. “Grab ‘em by the pussy,” wasn’t a manufactured recording either. You are more wrong about this, than you have EVER been.

For the sake of the argument. Let’s say Obama was an evil guy. He still wasn’t dumb enough, to talk about his evil deeds…

If Obama didn’t have to clean up Bush’s messes, he would have been the best POTUS ever. Even Trump, is still dealing with GW’s fires…

Don’t offer me bullshit sandwiches. I won’t eat them, like you Trumper sheep…

I read today that males who support trump have “fragile egos.” That sounds about.right to me.

^That could be true. But we must judge each other, by our own merits. We cannot allow the media, to separate us. ..

I’m somewhere stuck, in the middle of all this chaos. ..

Keep your heads together. We WILL weather this storm… And rebuild, as the nation our forefathers I tnendedd to be. ..

@MrGrimm888 Now, imagine if you will, if the MSM was right leaning. Imagine if someone said Obama’s BC was fake and the media went after it 24/7? Imagine if they had torn into Fast and Furious or Benghazi with the fervor they went after the Trump/Russia conspiracy which had a lot less substantial facts than any of those things? Imagine if the Repubs stopped working on anything remotely to do with the country and focused solely on those things for 3 years. Because that is what you are lamely trying to compare to. Face it…Obama was given pass after pass after pass. He had more scandals that were never looked at than any other president in our history.

Why not imagine that Obama passed out the sort of ammunition to the Republicans and press as your fool does to the dems and press. The fool’s Presidency is going up in flames not because the dems and press are firebugs. The man is a walking blowtorch that cannot be shut down.

@stanleybmanly I just did show all sorts of ammunition Obama handed out. Did the media go into overdrive on ANY of it? Nope. I could go on and list example after example after example…some impeachable offenses yet, with total predictability, the Dems refused to support any efforts at investigations, the press tried turning it on any of those brazen enough to bring them up, and the left just called everyone racist for daring to say such a thing. Sorry…your claim is total shit.

You call that ammunition? It’s laughable nonsense, and the Republican party may be pretty far gone, but even the majority of them (unlike you and your fool) don’t wish to be regarded as bad joke simpletons in the public forum.

You know what would be cool? Is if Pence gets impeached too because there is a good chance he knew about this shit and did nothing
Then Pelosi becomes
President.
Then she appoints Hillary as her VP.
Then Pelosi steps down and Hillary becomes President…and Trump’s head explodes! At least there won’t be much in the way of brains to clean up.

@seawulf575 . Benghazi, was ultimately Hillary’s issue. But it was a situation where there was no right action. I am saddened over the situation, but there wasn’t a right call. The US, could have went in, with attack helicopters, and A-10s. But they would have killed hundreds of civilians. That would have had worse ramifications, than letting the situation unfold, as it did. We should have never had an embassy there, to begin with. It was a terrible tragedy. One, that would have been made worse, had we stormed the place. It sucks. But, to me, Obama, and Hillary played it, the best they could. The situation was chess, not checkers. Some pawns were lost. You know, as well as anyone, that much of military strategy means that our servicemen, are expendable. I give Trump credit, for not using our military, to get further involved in Syria, and he certainly could have done so with Iran, as well. These situations, have similarities, to the Benghazi incident. Same with North Korea. He is not making a bad situation worse..

The Birth certificate BS, was not worth pursuing. Although Trump himself, pushed it with a vengeance.

As I mentioned, Obama was under constant conspiracy theories, about taking people’sguns, and putting us all in camps. As you like to say, there was NO evidence of this. Yet, the right pursued it anyway.

And the Republican party dragged their feet, and obstructed EVERYTHING Obama tried to do.
The Dems, don’t always like Republican presidents, but they usually play ball, with a republican executive branch. Even Pelosi, is not trying to impeach Trump. But he is giving the dems, no choice. He is now on the path to impeachment, because of his own doing. He will unlikely be removed, in large part to the GOP not sticking up for there oaths.

I’ve already stated, that Biden should be removed from candidacy, as a result of his actions as well. (Maybe in a different thread.)

Trump publicly asked for Russian interference in 2016. Now he has asked yet another country, to hurt his potential opponents. Those, ARE impeachable offenses…

Trump has been pushing his power, and has obstructed justice, multiple times. Now. He’s pushed too far. He should, at minimum, not be allowed to run for reelection. He doesn’t know what he’s doing, and is a habitual line stepper. It’s caught up to him. His behavior, and constant lying, are what’s bringing him down. He is not a victim. He is a self-incriminating idiot. His claim, of pardoning himself, is proof, that he KNOWS that he is breaking laws. If he goes down in flames, it will be by a fire HE started.

You claim to be impartial. Your posts, make it clear, that you are not. Man up. And own your hypocrisy. Trump, is digging his own grave. And people like you, are just confirming my opinions. You need to hold him accountable for his actions. Not defend his raping, of the world.
If you were truly independent, you would have to see, that he is abusing his power, and worse.
It’s time to see the fact, that these accusations, are adding up. There is simply too much, to say, that he isn’t guilty of at least some of these crimes. He’s far more of a dictator, than he is a president.

@MrGrimm888 Benghazi was mainly Hillary’s issue. But it was Obama and his administration that created the lie that the entire attack was a random mob that was reacting to some obscure YouTube video. That lie was passed off many, many times, even after the intelligence communities denounced it. Obama even tried passing it off himself. And if it was just Hillary that dropped the ball, why wasn’t she canned as Sect of State? Why were excuses made for her? THAT is the biggest scandal about Benghazi…it looks, feels, smells and sounds like a cover up. One that was never investigated honestly.

The BC issue really is bigger than the left wants to think. Experts have shown that the BC the WH put out was a forgery. That isn’t to say Obama wasn’t born in the US or was at least a US citizen. His mom was a US citizen so at a minimum he would be considered one as well. But then, why a forged BC? And isn’t that falsification of government records?

And yes, there were stupid allegations against Obama. But as you on the left were fond of saying: so let the investigation look into it. If there is nothing there, then he has nothing to worry about. Yet we never even got to the investigation phase. He would never allow it AND the press assisted him instead of taking every allegation as gospel truth with zero evidence. That is where you are missing the point. Obama had a lot of scandals during his terms in office. Lots. And none of them were ever investigated because he was protected by the Dems and the press. Trump hasn’t done a fraction of the shady things Obama did in office, yet there are tons of unfounded allegations that the Dems and the press are treating as truth. There is the double standard and why Obama didn’t have to deal with a tenth of the stuff Trump is dealing with.

We never got to the investigation stage, because the entire Benghazi thing was a put up job that would not stick, and you should just go ahead and admit it. And your constant dwelling on it, Hillary’s emails, and crap such as Obama’s unconstitutionally— all of it is nothing but tiresome deflective crap suited to distract the conversation from the visibly serious and UNDENIABLY criminal transgressions of an unmitigated fool. Since the idiot is indefensible, you stoop to the hustler’s trick of changing the topic to Benghazi, Obama, Biden, Hillary, Schiff, ANYTHING but the turd in the White House. Well I’m not about to allow you to get away with it any longer, and to put things back on track, let’s talk some more about the turd in the White House.

If it goes beyond the investigation and is sent to the senate to try, I think that will be it. The senate has to act and, unless something big changes, their action will likely be to dismiss all charges.

@seawulf575 . It seems like every administration, has shady shit going on. You want the stuff investigated. I do too. But you cry about the millions spent, trying to get the facts from the Mueller report. The simple fact, is that almost none of these investigations lead anywhere. That doesn’t mean that there was nothing to uncover.

I disagree with you, that the press “protected” Obama. But I respect your opinions on the suspicions, of his potential crimes.And if you recall, the dems, didn’t have the power you suggest. Obama, had a majority republican congress. I assume (but could be wrong,) that they chose not to pursue most issues, because they would have been futile, and wasteful. Again, I could be wrong…

The double standard, I also disagree with. Mainly because Trump is stupid enough to publicly declare his wrong doings, and simply say that he is essentially above the law. Or can pardon himself, of any crimes. Obama, never did that.
As I’ve opined before, Trump wouldn’t be in half the trouble he is in, if he would just shut his stupid mouth.

I don’t have enough information to opine about Obama’s BC. I never personally looked into it, because it was a foolish thing from the start.

By the way. It still bothers me, that you lump me in, with the left. I do not consider myself a leftist. I hate Trump. But often give him credit, where I think it’s due. And I’ve openly condemned Biden, as well.

I cannot recall you being impartial, other than to opine that Trump occasionally says things that you don’t like…

I have said that Obama, and Hillary, should both be investigated, for their potential crimes. I have said that Biden, should be removed from the candidacy all together.

I* don’t vote*. Because I find both parties deplorable. Currently, I find the Republican party, as the “worst, of two evils.”

I can admit, that I find the GOP, abhorrent. But that doesn’t mean that I support the idiots in the DNC. I will admit, that I think they are the country’s only hope of turning the US, back to the correct path. But I think they are incapable, of doing so…

Hate on liberals, and the left, all you want. They deserve it. But please, don’t lump me in, with those morons…

I’m not sure what I should be labeled as. But I’m not a liberal, or leftist. In fact. I think the entire government, should be different. They (both parties) should be able to work together. But they spend most of their time, fighting one another. In the end, the country is suffering most, IMO, by the two party system. I am personally sick of both parties. They all get rich, while the country, and it’s people suffer.

I am not a part of the problem. I can’t claim to be part of the solution either. But the whole system, is a complete failure. And it will continue to be, until widespread change is made.

Maybe there should be 3 presidents, or something different. But the current system, is permanently broken, and doomed to failure.

If there’s a republican executive branch, the country votes in a democratic congress. And vice versa. The result is that nothing really gets accomplished. And any beneficial things installed, are taken away, by the next executive office.

It’s a pathetically predictable pattern. Bush undid the good things Bill did. Obama had to clean up his mess, with nothing but an obstructionist congress. Trump undid everything Obama did, or tried. Whomever wins in 2020, will have to undoe, what Trump did. The result will be little, to no real progress, on the country’s behalf. And the vast majority of US citizens, will be the ones that suffer. But the politicians, will get more wealthy, and get paid for doing NOTHING…....

That has been the pattern, in my lifetime. And I see no end to it.

I’m not a leftist, or a right winger. I just want the country to do well. If it were up to me, they would fire the entire government, and hold new elections. There would be term limits, and when the government shuts down, because they can’t do their jobs, they’d be fired. Right now. The government runs worse than McDonald’s… McDonald’s, is the worst company I can think of. But if the restaurants shut down for weeks, heads would roll.

I blame the American people. They let this go on, and on. It’s pathetic.

The SCOTUS, is held together, by a woman battling cancer. If she dies/retires, it will be a catastrophic thing. As the right will control everything. That’s NOT what this nation was founded on.

To “make America great again,” means sweeping changes must be made. But that won’t happen.

PLEASE, stop calling me a “leftist.” Just because I have sense enough to know that the country is being hijacked, by white/Christians. In a failing attempt to stop inevitable progress…..

@Sagacious . You are probably right. The GOP, will absolve Trump, by not doing their job. Further proving my disdain, for how the system “works.”.

I’m sick of this nonsense…

Anyone who still buys into Birther nonsense should be rightly regarded as a knobhead, and dismissed accordingly.

@MrGrimm888 I have noticed you seem to have toned down quite a bit and have called for equal treatment on both sides of the aisle. I have upvoted you on a few comments even. It seems like not very long ago you were way more dedicated to the leftist views and talking points.
I think the problem you have with me not condemning Trump is that I don’t see much that is condemnation worthy…except some of the bone head things he says and his overall attitude sometimes. And I have willingly identified those. But when he was accused of colluding with Russia, I called that a witch hunt…and it turned out to be just that. It never happened. The whole thing with Stormy Daniels…I figure he slept with her and did pay her off to keep quiet about it. That doesn’t speak to much in his character, but when that is attempted to be turned into campaign finance violations with zero evidence, I can’t go there. I pretty much felt the same way about Bill Clinton. Had Bill actually come out and said..“yep, I had an affair. Sorry honey.” then that whole thing would have blown over and he probably would have gained even more popularity. Instead he lied about it under oath and tried using the power of his office to stop the investigation. That is where he screwed up. The list of things Trump has been accused of is almost endless and most of it is window dressing. In fact there are so many made up things that I have a hard time finding anything realistic to hold against him…except for his moronic comments from time to time. People slam him for the tariffs on China and starting a trade war. I give him credit for attempting to do something about the trade inequalities that have existed for a long time. Whether the tariffs are the right thing is still up in the air in my mind. They could end up being a great thing for this country or they might bring on hard times. I will keep an open mind until one of those two comes about.
As for things that need to change in our government…I agree…there are plenty. Throw a cat at Washington DC and you’re liable to hit something that is corrupt. I truly believe term limits for Congress would be a good start. I once heard of an idea for elections that I thought might be a good idea as well. Start at the city level and, without any party affiliations, select a person to represent your state in congress. After each city choses someone, then those people are compared on their opinions and their views at the county level. After the counties, then it moves to the state level. At each stage, a person is voted to move to the next level until you have the right number of congressmen and senators in place. And no party affiliations are allowed. I think limiting campaign spending to the amount a person would earn in that job is a great idea. It would mean that poor people could run for office with the same efficiency as the rich. It would eliminate PACS and large donors from carrying the day.
I think that changing the benefits for congressmen and senators (and the POTUS) should be changed. They serve a set number of terms and they are given that number of years of full pay and benefits and then that is it. No lifetime retirements with full benefits and cost of living increases for them and their survivors if they pass. Pass a law that says no one that served in Congress can go to work for a company that works with or for the government or in politics for a period of 5 years. That would minimize their continued input into future generations of elected officials. But the problem with all of these things is that it requires the people that are benefiting from the current game to scrap that game and come up with a new one that will put them out of the game.

@seawulf575 . I’ve always been impartial, or perhaps more accurately, anti-government.

I appreciate your giving me some credit.

I think America, could indeed, be the greatest country/Empire, in the world. But politicians, and Lawyers, are fucking it up. I just want what’s best for the country, and the world in general.

I was never a Trump fan. I’ve mentioned that I have seen him on Howard Stern interviews, years ago. I just think, he’s a terrible POTUS. I concede, that I played a role in his election, by not voting. But my state (SC,) has always been red, so I feel like my vote would not matter, even if I did cast it. If they abolish the Electoral College, I might actually vote. But like I said, I didn’t like Hillary either. So. My vote wouldn’t have mattered… As I would likely voted 3rd party…

I think a lot of people who live in traditionally red/blue states, don’t bother to vote, because of the same issue. The EC, should be done away with. Then. We would have a true democracy.

I don’t like the idea, but I thin it should be mandatory, for every eligible voter, to vote. Then. We’d see who America truly wants, as POTUS…

Interesting. Forcing people to vote. Here you and I have a bit of a fundamental difference. I view voting as a right. Rights imply people have choices and responsibility. Part of our problem in today’s society is that we are trying to take responsibility away from people….not hold people accountable for their individual actions. While you and I agree that voting should be meaningful, I’m not sure making it mandatory is the right way to go. Really..have you ever tried to “make” a teenager do something? If they don’t want to and they do it because they are forced, they do it with attitude in an effort to “show you”. Imagine millions of people with that attitude casting votes? Ugh.

^Not a bad argument.

Back when they impeached Clinton, Senator Feinstein urged the Republicans to censure him rather than impeach him and fail to remove him.
When the vote to remove him failed, they appealed to Feinstein to help with a censure, but she declined, saying they should have taken her deal. Clinton would have been humbled and humiliated by a censure.
Would Trump be humiliated by a censure? No. Nothing is beneath him. He is self righteous in his scum.

@filmfann Hasn’t Trump pretty much been censured for his entire presidency? He has been accused of all sorts of things and so far, none of it has been true…other than he is annoying on Twitter. I’ll give you that one. And the Dems have been calling for him to be impeached since before he was sworn into office. The Dems have battled against everything he has tried to do, including things they, themselves, have thought were great ideas in the past. Not sure that censuring would look really any different than what we have seen for almost 3 years.

@seawulf575 He has been “dirty” since beefore he was sworn in.

Oh I know he’s wearing down the Dems and liberals. SMH

Or maybe your vision is El Jefe; President forever by Executive order.

How are things with Putin’s Chef??

@Tropical_Willie Your proof? You claim he was dirty since before he was sworn in…..what is the charge and where is the proof? I know for the longest time it was that he colluded with Russia. Mueller put that to rest….for everyone except the rabid lefties. When he says that no Americans knowingly conspired with Russia to interfere in the election, that is pretty good evidence that Trump is off the hook. So what else? How could he commit impeachable offenses prior to his being sworn in? Please…give details.

I can NOT believe you’re still coming up with excuse for the idiot!

As if providing proof would convince trump fanatics. They will twist and spin any proof that comes out against trump and if all the spinning and twisting fail they will say the high crime and misdemeanor is just the norm these days. Seriously, screw all that deplorable trump fanatic BS! Lol

After publicly asking China to investigate Biden, a few days later he says “I was joking.” Probably after his people told him to say that. Even if he was joking, which I do not believe he was, he cannot ask foreign countries to investigate the people running against him. It’s against the law. I believe it may even be treason. But what you have here is his followers drinking the koolaid. When he first asked China to investigate, his clan was cheering and heckling Biden. Now that he says it’s a joke, his sheep nod in unison “yes, yes a joke”.
Damn scary bunch that has no idea how to run a country.

Jesus. Now he’s talking about his ”...great and unmatched wisdom.” The man is completely, totally unhinged. He’s channeling The Wizard of Oz.

Rumors are rumbling GOP is looking to have Pence as Presidential candidate.

OOPSIE King forever is going to have to move to wherever———————(Ukraine Trump Towers) !

@Dutchess_lll Try asking trump to expound in his own words——- without reading it from a speech prepared by his speechwriter———- as to why he made that big decision on Turkey and the Kurds and I’m sure he’ll fumble it like an idiot.

In a 30 minute Q and A with journalists he won’t be able to give any substantial answer based on real insight. But you can bet a million bucks he’ll praise his own “great and unmatched wisdom” at least fifty times before that Q and A session ends.

Ayup @mazingerz88. His “great and unmatched wisdom” will be hid catch phrase for the next 2 weeks. He is trying to channel Obama but failing. As always.

Wait whatabout “stable genius” ?

@seawulf575 . Trump PUBLICLY asked for the Russians, to find dirt on Hillary. You are not holding Trump accountable… Criminals, often commit the same crimes. And he’s also PUBLICLY said, that he doesn’t think that’s a problem.
He’s PUBLICLY said, that he can pardon himself from any crimes. .. I could go on, and on. I am at the point where I think you would defend Trump, for anything…That’s your pattern… I refuse to believe that you cannot see this…

@MrGrimm888 That is a leftist talking point and below your standards. Trump made a joke. There were the growing accusations that Russia somehow interfered with our election, that Trump was involved, that they had hacked the DNC computers. He joked that maybe they could find the missing emails. This is a perfect example of what I am talking about when I say the left tries to twist things around. Trump was a candidate at the time…not the POTUS. He was asked a question about Putin. He responded that he didn’t know anything about Putin and that he had never met him. He said he didn’t know if Russia had hacked the DNC computers, said probably not, and he THEN went on to condemn them if they did. Then he made the joke about “Russia, if you’re listening, maybe you can find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I’m sure you will be rewarded mightily by our press corps.”

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4615538/donald-trump-asks-russia-find-hillary-clintons-emails

As for saying he could pardon himself, he might be right. Even legal scholars aren’t sure:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/04/here-is-what-9-experts-say-about-whether-president-trump-can-pardon-himself.html

But doing so would certainly show extreme corruption. But again….“Trump says he can pardon himself” is the liberal talking point. If you go back to the original statements, Trump references “numerous legal scholars” as a basis for his claim. He did say he could pardon himself BUT why would he when he has committed no crime? This last part is completely ignored as part of the liberal talking point. Without it, it paints a much different picture which is exactly what the liberal media and pundits want. When things are taken out of context, you get to create whatever narrative you want. Example: I’m telling you things and backing it up with facts. And what is your response? “You refuse to believe.” Now that I pulled a couple words you used entirely out of context I can start the narrative that you are a lunatic to disbelieve in facts, that you are playing ostrich and burying your head in the sand to avoid seeing the truth….any number of things.

Wrong, wrong, and wrongoing again. All of these are “left use talking points, ” because they came from Trump’s mouth. But your logic, I could say that Biden’s confession, was a “joke,” end just a right wing talking point. If you can’t man up, about Trump’s rhetoric, maybe you should just shut up…

Your tired arguments, that everything Trump says/does, are leftist propaganda, puts ALL of your defense if Trump in painting you either as a fool (which we know isn’t true, ( or you are simply being biased, against everything Trump says. You can’t take most of Trump’s words, “out of context ” It’s beyond foolish, to attempt to spin it as such.

You can call my understanding of the multiple scenarios, whatever you want. You’re just exposing your own ignorance, and sheepish loyalty, to a wannabe dictator. You have proven yourself, as the one with his head in the sand. Enjoy the view… I enjoy having you, as part of our community. But you seem content on proving that you are a hypocrite, and a coward, who hides behind the false truth that he is inpartial…

Stop playing games. No one, is as stupid, as the suggestions you assert…

I am not being reproach, but don’t try to piss in my pocket, and tell me it’s raining…

I’m no fool. And YOU, constantly prove yourself a sheep. Enjoyyour day “bahh“wukf575. The sheep, in wolve’s clothing…

I’ll tell you truthfully, if Clinton could be impeached for lying about a blow job, I don’t want to hear any nonsense from the right about democratic persecution of this repugnant tumor on our body politic. The idiot continues willy nilly to hand the Democrats more reasons to impeach his ineptly bungling ass than you can shake a stick at. All the trumped up excuses for the bloated stumblebum fail to conceal the visibly garish truth. Our President is a repulsive lying fuckup, void of a single redeeming trait other than the fact that he is too stupid to rate consolidation to the class of competent criminal.

@MrGrimm888 Yep…they came from his mouth. And you refuse to believe facts. After all…you said you refuse to believe.

@stanleybmanly “blah, blah, blah…Orange Man Bad!!!....blah, blah, blah….Hate Trump! I think I quoted you accurately.

Suffice it to be said, you have never quoted me or anyone else accurately you spigot of willful distortion and preposterous claptrap.

“blah, blah, blah….i don’t like what you say so I will throw big words around….blah, blah, blah.” More accurate?

It’s amazing how many words a person with nothing to say can write….

^^Yes. It ends up with something like a really terrible joke that trump himself came up with. Lol

@smokewulf575 You want big words? How about pompous popinjay? And here’s a revelation for you: accuracy isn’t exactly your strong suit. As with so many of his traits, you share the same propensity toward accuracy as the fool himself. You have the same arrogance as our would be infallible simpleton, and just like him, you waste no time bragging on your perfection! The 2 of you are a matched set, and the puffed up idiot is indeed worthy of a defense from the likes of you. It’s fine with me that you demean yourself before us by embellishing the turd, but It’s a pointless and thankless job. Why not dump the onerous trade of defending the devil, and switch to the pursuit of honest work?

Ha. Someone is triggered by big words.

YUGE words…

@stanleybmanly The last time I checked, I was the one that gives citations to back up my statements. You are the one that never does. So who is the one that lacks accuracy?

^You would be wise, not to underestimate Stanley. I know you two love going at it. But part of both of you, must enjoy enjoy your debates…

He backs up his statements, with logic. You do too. But, Stanley is a wise jelly. He does have a habit of straight jumping on Trumpers. And he gives Trump NO credit, for anything. But, like yourself, he isn’t stupid, and has often made valid points, that you also reject….

The problem here is not about big words or citations. The difficulty lies in the fact that one of us is saddled with the justification and defense of what is a visibly disgusting pig of a man. No citations from alt right wing nut sources or biblical scripture itself will counter the smelly spectacle of the creature’s noxious oinking as it roils in its own filth to the revulsion of the world. To defend the pig is a self demeaning thankless occupation that sullies any and all within splashing distance of the torrent of filth generated from the wallowing obscenity. Face it. The feeble defense of Obama was worse or Hillary’s the bigger pig is but a useless attempt at distraction from the nightmare in front of us NOW!

I think most of us knew from the start that Trump was entirely unsuited to be President of the United States of America. His words and his actions confirm that on a daily basis. He is a megalomaniac of a kind never before seen in the US and it was an act of irresponsibility to vote him in to office. I just wish he would get behind a microphone and say “I’m sorry folks, it’s been a blast and I’ve enjoyed it but this job just isn’t for me. I’m resigning with immediate effect.” America might then begin to heal.

^^But then there are those who would insist that megalomania, narcissism and child cruelty aren’t illegal so even if the reality TV show host takes a dump on the roof of the WH, those poor election losers should just walk on by and shut up. And also btw, they would mention that Obama and Hillary also took a dump on the WH roof. It’s all exactly the same. Nothing to see here.

Well. Keep in mind that impeachment, only means an investigation into whether a sitting POTUS, should be removed. It doesn’t mean that the POTUS gets automatically ejected. It means that the POTUS, is in question. A lot of factors play into this. I personally don’t think Trump should be removed from office. But, it should be looked into… If facts prove he should bexpect then let’s throw his ass out..

^But if trump is thrown out, pence takes over.

^^Yes but best not to stray from the real critical issue. Impeachable acts by trump. They are trying to make these acts normal and acceptable. That should never be acceptable.

Pence is an unknown. We know he’s super right wind, but I don’t think he has anywhere close to Trump’s sheep’s followings. Nor, will have the power Trump gets…