If someone calls you, begging for money, do you have the right to dictate what that money is spent on?

Only if that is part of your contract. Don’t approve? Don’t give money. Want to make sure your “gift” is spent a certain way? Give a gift card. Otherwise you are trying to dictate the priorities of another adult. Not your job.

Maybe she’s not applying for food stamps because she’s not eligible for some reason, @Dutchess_III. Maybe she’d be turned down due to drug use (positive drug test, which they do in some states), or some other reason (beyond my scope of knowledge about this topic). Just tossing out some thoughts about why she’d rather buy food than toiletries. Some people would say at least she’s buying food and not the new iPhone or getting a manicure.

As far as lending money and having a say in what it’s for, if someone comes to me asking for money, I’d hope it would be for something necessary and not something stupid. If it’s going to be for something stupid, then I’m not going out of my way to lend it. I lent $6,000 once to a good friend who wanted to put it down on a new car. That was a big risk but I felt like she wouldn’t screw me. If she asked for 6k to buy something stupid, then no, go to a bank.

Once the money leaves your hands, your ability to dictate how it is spent only goes so far as the contract you have with the other person. Since this was a gift to a friend, I believe your rights are zero.

She hasn’t even tried @jca2. She hasn’t even applied.
I am not going to enter into a contract over a couple hundred dollars @Hawaii_Jake!

@Dutchess_III: I understand she hasn’t applied. I’m saying she might know of a reason why she would be rejected right off the bat. Positive drug test, criminal activity like a warrant out for her arrest, who knows, I said it’s beyond the scope of my knowledge.

@Dutchess_III If you had no contract/agreement, you get zero say in how the money is spent, and yes, it’s unfair of you to think you should.

@jca2, no, it’s not that. When I suggested it she actually exploded, yelling that only losers get food stamps. I don’t agree with her.

If I don’t like what she’s spending it on, I won’t send any more, if she isn’t even willing to TRY other avenues.

@Dutchess_III A contract is any specific agreement regarding a transaction. A verbal contract is legally binding, but very difficult to enforce. If you set parameters, and they agree, then, legally, you have a right to know.

It’s “unfair” of me @Hawaii_Jake? How novel. I think it’s unfair of her to beg me for money that I don’t really have then to waste it because “only losers use food stamps.”

@Dutchess_III If you don’t want to hear what we have to say, don’t ask.

You don’t like A) what she spent it on and B) what she said about people who use food stamps. So what? Don’t give her money if you don’t want to.

It doesn’t change the fact that unless you stipulate terms before handing over the money, you have “rights” here.

This made me think of a Frasier episode, in which Frasier gives Roz a $1500 loan.
Frasier finds out that Roz is supposedly on a spending spree shortly after she got the money (spa visit, lunch, perfume), and gets a bit annoyed (by her irresponsible behavior; after all she’s not good off, without a job, and is expecting).
Season 6, episode 9.

My opinion is that once given a gift one has no (should have no) say in how it’s spend.

Unfortunately, no.

What you could do is offer to help her with a budget, and hope it works.

Of course to get me to give you money, all you have to do is give me a pitiful story about why your kid can’t afford football camp or something, and I’m in. Apparently. #sucker

This reminds me a bit of a story. When my son had his fifth birthday party, his friend Ben came into the house all upset because, “Everybody’s doing what they want to do; nobody’s doing what I want them to do!” It sounds like you might feel criticized for having used food stamps when you needed them but clearly that’s not what she wanted to do.

Bottom line – don’t give money if you are going to attach strings.

She normally doesn’t have a problem with budgeting @KNOWITALL. The is the first time she’s ever asked for help. I mean, she’s 57 years old, never married, no kids, been on her own since she was 17.
If she’s going to find her self in a position to have to borrow money for everything and refuses to look into some help from the government, which she’s paid into all of her life, or other sources like churches and stuff, then I quit. I can’t afford it.

@jca2 she was one of the most intense critics of my use of food stamps way back when.

OK. I won’t give her any more money.

Once money has been given it has been given and it belongs to the recipient. They can then do what they want with it. If they say they want money for xyz however I would expect them to buy xyz with it and if they use it for something else I might think twice before giving them any more as I would feel I had been deceived.

Sorry, ”no” rights

I don’t give money to people unless it’s a holiday or birthday present. I don’t usually lend money to people because most of my friends have more money than I do. I mean, if someone at work said they needed ten dollars till tomorrow because they left their ATM card at home or something then sure, but if someone came to me and asked for a lot of money, then no. If they needed money and they were eligible for social services, then I’d tell them where they could go because I work there. If they needed food, I’d tell them to go to a food pantry because I know all about that stuff, through my job. If they needed a car repair or something, then my advice would be to go to their parent or someone else, or save up for it. I used to struggle financially. If someone said they needed money to get their nails done or their hair done, then obviously they can’t afford it. If I can’t afford to get my nails done or a fancy handbag or fancy clothes, then I do without.

It’s my little sister. Our parents are dead….and even if they weren’t we’d cut our legs off rather than ask to borrow money.

She would hate asking our other sister, and I understand. I’d never ask her for anything either even though she is very comfortable financially. I never asked her for anything when I was poor, either. I never asked any family member for anything.

She didn’t ask for a lot. She asked for $200 the first time. I sent $250. It was to help her travel 400 miles round trip for a job interview (which she didn’t get. She was devastated.)
That’s the first time she mentioned the lack of food in the house. That’s when I suggested she apply for stamps and she became angrily insulted.

Yesterday I learned she had another job interview so I sent some money in case she needed to buy shoes or something. She brought up the lack of food again so I mentioned food stamps again, and she got bitchy.

She’s not into hair dos, nails, fancy clothes, purses so I know it wasn’t going toward any foo foo crap like that.

I’m just frustrated with her proud refusal to ask for temporary help from Welfare the way so many people have to do. Apparently, to her, it’s the high road to ask money from people who can hardly afford it, rather than approach Welfare.

And for that reason, I’m not sending her any money until she sucks up her pride and exhausts all other avenues. Then I’ll be happy to help with what I can.

Giving someone less fortunate than yourself an injection of cash in this way should be an entirely unselfish act of compassion, showing empathy in an unconditional way.

You failed on all of the above!

Don’t care about your opinion @ucme. Especially since you obviously didn’t read my reasoning for preferring that she get non food necessities and get food from food stamps. She buys all this food with the money I give her, then asks for money to buy toilet paper and soap.
I can’t afford that.
Now if she TRIED to get food stamps but was refused, that’s a different story.
She refuses to even apply.

@Dutchess_lll Have you told her that you were on food stamps for X months because of your divorce? Ask her if she thinks you’re a loser, especially since you’ve been giving her money.

Then tell her that she needs to go down and apply for food stamps or tell you why she can’t. It would answer a lot of questions for you. Please keep us posted!

She knows. Back when I was in the midst of poverty she made it abundantly clear that she thought I was loser for being on stamps.
My oldest had a babycalled she was 16. My sister went out of her way to call the baby “illegitimate.” She called him a bastard, too.
She was completely contemptious of me and the kids.

Golly Dutch. I’d tell her that she’s no better than I am. I’d tell her sign up for food stamps or no more money. If she decided to get uppity about it I tell her that I’m not shaming her like she did me. Instead I’m telling her to be responsible.

Some people need those hard conversations.

@Dutchess_lll Wikipedia defines boundaries as a life skill for protecting against having personal values compromised or violated. You lack boundaries with your sister. Developing healthy boundaries is not a simple matter for most people. We tend to think we owe people a certain amount of leniency or some such thing. This is especially strong with family members. We often believe that simply because we were born in the same family, we are supposed to be close. Sometimes being close involves saying no.

Your sister sounds like an unpleasant person. That’s sad. In any event, it’s your responsibility to take care of yourself and to protect yourself. You don’t have to subject yourself to her judgmental attitudes. It’s up to you to decide how much you allow her into your life.

You need more gay people in your life. We are often estranged from our families of origin due to bigotry and hate, and we have to create families of choice. There’s a lot of strength in creating families. There’s a lot of strength in how we maintain strong boundaries with people who mistreat us.

@Hawaii_Jake amazing how you’ve sussed out my relationship with my sister. Seriously astonishing.
Would you back off of your arrogant assumption if I tell you we have NO relationship? We are sisters so we’re in touch now and again.
You are so wise @Hawaii_Jake, tell me the last time I saw her? Hint. It was 2005.
When was the last time before this that I spoke to her? Hint. YEARS.
Don’t preach to me about some non existent relationship and what I’m supposed to do about it.
As far as her antics 25 years ago, I changed my phone number so she couldn’t call my children while I was at work.

She fancies herself a wise Christian counselor like you do.

I was actually being sincere. Enjoy your life, Dutch.

Yes. She’s unpleasant. Most sanctimonious, judgemental people are.

Wow, she’s working you pretty good if that’s your relationship and you’re still giving her money!

Actually @Hawaii_Jake you were being sincerely sanctimonious. You assumed you understood the nature of a relationship you had no way of knowing any single thing about.

Except when she did, according to a previous post of yours on this thread.

A minute ago there was a post that said this was the first time she asked. I wonder what happened to it? When we redact an answer is it entirely removed now?

You may dictate anything you like; however, once you gift the money to her, it’s hers to do with as she pleases. I think that you’d be a lot more upset IF you gave her specific instructions on how you expected it to be spent & then she used it the way she knew that she needed it. IF it can’t be “just a gift”, I wouldn’t give her anything at all!!!

It sounds like she doesn’t believe in using food stamps and you do. She is consistent in her beliefs. There’s no right or wrong here so you do what you want to do and can live with.

She doesn’t “belive” in food stamps because she’s never been in dire enough straits to consider them. Well, she is.now.
All I would ask her to do is at least apply for food stamps before spending cash money on food. I want to help her but Lord. Set your judgement about food stamp recipients aside already.
And, as I said, I am not sending any more money unless she does.
When I DID send money both times this month it was specifically to help out with her interviews.
Then I get a text “I’m going to the grocery store with the money you sent! I had 3 old potatoes, a big bag of rice, and a big bag of oatmeal left. That was it, and didn’t really give a shit about it. Thank you.”
What? What does “didn’t really give a shit about it” even mean?

Maybe she’s drinking.

Well that’s always how she talks. But she’ll tell you she’s a recovering alcoholic. IDK.

Your sis needs an exorcism. ;)

Once you give someone money it is no longer yours and you lose any and all right to say how it is spent. If you’re really that concerned about where the money goes then offer to purchase the needed item for the person instead.

It’s on YOU to ask in advance where the money will go. Your poor friend has no idea that you would cut her off for buying food! But all this misses the point. This woman isn’t your friend because of her decision skills (you who know damned well you have no business giving other people money). One of the most depressing lessons of my life was the realization of the consequences to becoming what I regarded at the time to be “well heeled”. It is incredible the extent to which truly decent people are so close to financial catastrophe, and it’s appalling that so many of them wind up that way because they just plain aren’t selfish enough!

^^ It’s her sister if that makes a difference.

Oh shit! Then it’s absurd to even pretend that you have some choice.

Well, if she asks for more money I’ll ask if she applied for food stamps. If she says no, then I say no.

the guilt will dog you mercilessly.

I don’t think @Dutchess_III feels much guilt once she makes up her mind she is right.

No, the guilt won’t dog me. I don’t feel guilty for problems I didn’t cause. I’ll help out again, if I can, but she has to do her part too.

Good job @Dutchess_III !

I would be pissed.. And I, for most of my life was the person crawling onto the couch in my sisters basement after my stupidity ended in homelessness.

And I have gotten food stamps multiple times. Two hours from scratch and you can have a card. If they deem serious hardship the card can be filled when you leave the office. If not it takes a few days. But there is no reason to not do it as long as you don’t lie about your situation and you qualify.

Well apparently my (Christian) sister thinks that only losers, lowlifes and lazy people get food stamps so on that high ground she’ll stand.

I pay taxes when I work. When I don’t I get back some of those taxes.

Mitt Romney said, “Use every loophole, technically legal!!”.. I got 140 a month that went directly to Safeway and the food supply chain. He destroyed companies and got 140 million and parked the cash in overseas accounts and dodged taxes.

One of us should feel ashamed, and it isn’t me that used coupons to stretch my food stamps.

@Dutchess_lll Please try to keep this in perspective. I’m a Christian too and I have no problem with food stamps. Not all Christians are mean self righteous bigots! I’m really sorry that you have a family full of mean Christians. Unfortunately it’s the mean ones who get the bad press and few people ever hear about the kind Christians.

@Dutchess III and @janbb. Perhaps you’re both right about the guilt thing, and I’m taking the wrong view, but I want both of you to consider the implications in what Dutch is telling us. The woman has contempt for her sister at suggesting a legal and available remedy. She actually believes it beneath her dignity! And yet, is willing to mooch off her sister as though it is her righteous duty! Now even if Dutch were loaded, such arrogance is worthy of a sharp slap in the face, and Dutch KNOWS it, and admits as much. Dutch says that unless sis acts right Dutch will shut the tap. But you, I and Dutch KNOW the girl is not going to act right, and Dutch admits in the next paragraph that she will help when she can. I too have a starving artist on my hands with a 50 year history of this exact behavior. There are in addition others I know who stumble from crisis to crisis strictly due to consistently bad decisions. The thing is that you must recognize the fact that it is your role to be squeezed, and accept it. Don’t delude yourself into believing that you can harden your heart or that sis is going to change, you BIG softy. Just pray that you can stiffen up to the point that you don’t allow sis to sink you along with herself. Good luck!

I don’t lend money in large amounts. I may loan money to a select few for a short period of time, but I usually don’t have any to lend.

That’s the other thing. The ruse of “loans” is there for the convenience of the borrower’s self worth. 9 times out of 10, you’re never going to see a dime of that money again. Stand in front of the mirror, and recite “look at the chump”, and understand that you are looking at a soul who will not die rich!

@stanleybmanly…. did you miss the part where I said, ”I’ll help out again, if I can, but she has to do her part too.”
I have no problem saying “No.”

@snowberry please don’t preach to me what Christianity means . I was a Christian up until 2007. I was raised a Christian. I was born again in the 80s. My sister is an asshole, plain and simple. I have always believed that Christians are supposed to be good and kind, and she is not good nor kind. A lot of Christian’s aren’t.

That’s what I mean. Neither kind nor considerate—but needy with delusions of entitlement at your expense! How many times in the past have you insisted that she “do her part”?

One doesn’t have to be a Christian to be an asshole.
Or a non-Christian.

She’s never asked for anything in the past @stanleybmanly. She’s asked two time in the last month, but it’s due to the same set of circumstances. I trust that she’ll pull herself out. But if she falls hard enough maybe she’ll have a little more understanding for people who are down and out. I know I do from my own experience.

I know that @rebbel. I’m pretty sure I wasn’t an asshole when I was a Christian. I hope I wasn’t. But when you walk around pounding on your chest about how you’re a Christian, I don’t think it’s out of line for people to assume certain Jesus-like behaviors from you and the shit she’s done ain’t it, IMO.

@Dutchess_lll Again, please try to keep this in perspective. I wasn’t preaching at you.

Unfortunately that’s how you chose to take it. I’m sorry about that too. I’ve been hurt very badly by mean Christians too. It also hurts when my non-Christian friends (I do consider you a friend, you know) blast the Christian community because of some “bad apples”.

I didn’t blast the entire Christian community. I’m blasting my sister. Being a good Christian is what she gets paid to do. I don’t know how she can minister to people she feels contempt for.

Or accept money from them and believe themselves superior for shunning the public dole.

Right?

She’s NOT going to hit rock bottom as long as she’s receiving a check with which to buy food!!! Sometimes just saying NO can be the kindest thing to do. Of course she’ll curse you for refusing to help.

Read the comments. I SAID that as long as she refuses to apply for food stamps I will not be sending any more money.
Not my first rodeo.

I HEARD YOU, but I don’t believe you!!!

WTF? You don’t even know me! Or are you one of those people with magical powers that can suss out a person’s entire personality and motivations by looking into a crystal ball? Or are you having dreams about me?

I’m having dreams about you sweetheart!!!

You’re not the only one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You’re having dreams about me too @ Brian1946!!!!!!! Wow. I’m feeling like a Rock star!!!

Or they could actually be nightmares about an apex predator being right above me!!!! ;-o

YOU WOKE ME UP!!! Rawer!!!

I can’t believe @LadyMarissa just called me a liar based on…..?

Them’s bitin’ words.

pitiful and needy

@Dutchess_lll

“YOU WOKE ME UP!!! Rawer!!!”

Perhaps I was too close to you when I whispered.

This makes me wonder if apex predators are sound sleepers. My guess is yes, but I’m about 10,000 units short of having a Zoology degree, so I’d like to see a more authoritative answer.

Well. I sleep through tornado sirens. When my ex and I got married Mom, who had moved to the Pacific Northwest, where she was raised and moved back after the divorce bummed a camper off of a relative to park in the parking lot of her condo as a honeymoon camper.
Well her brain damaged sister was staying staying with her and had some sort of episode and Mom called 911 and I had flashing lights surrounding my honeymoon camper and I never budged.
People marveled.

Echo off!