If babies are considered innocent, when do people cease to be innocent?

My assessment: it depends on the child. But two things have to be in play:

1) the kid understands the difference between right and wrong, and

2) the kid chooses to do the wrong thing

So depending on the kid’s maturity and and intelligence it can be anywhere from age 3 to age 5.

Example:

A 2 year old picks up a cup of water and turns it over and gets everything wet. That’s an innocent act of a kid who doesn’t know better.

A 5 year old picks up a cup of water, looks at mom, smiles, and purposely turns it over. That’s a wilful act.

Around the time they get self conscious?
And start using their minds?

I think around the time they learn they can lie, cheat, steal, sneak around.

Not that all kids do that, of course, but they learn that they can. They learn from watching their friends, and also from the Internet.

My guess would be middle school age. 10–12, 13.

@jca2 -I’ve always thought around the age of 8 but maybe I need to give them a break, idk. lol

@jca2 you’re too generous. My granddaughter is a little sneak and she’s only 8.

There is more than just knowing right and wrong; there is understanding the reason why one thing is right and the other wrong.

Roman Catholic teaching is that it is about age 6 or 7, that’s the earliest that one can comprehend consequences of right and wrong and start learning about going to confession.

@zenvelo Same for Baptists, you can’t ‘get saved’ until you know and understand what it means.

Are dogs always innocent or at some point do dogs become morally culpable for their mischief? The answers may help guide thinking about babies. Scientists can draw parallels between human development and canines in terms of certain cogitative milestones (e.g. understanding mirrors, understanding the persistence of objects that are no longer immediately in view, etc.).

I think you have to define innocent first. A two or three year old can be deliberately manipulative; does that mean they aren’t innocent? Does knowing that there are bad people and bad things that happen in the world mean that you aren’t innocent? If so, that again can be at toddle stage for some unfortunate kids.

@gorillapaws – I am a bit concerned now!:)

@janbb That does complicate it

I was born with a heart defect. And I learned by 1st grade that I could use that to get what I wanted.

(*Unfortunately that ceased to be effective by my teen years, when I had outgrown the cute kid factor.)

@Darth_Algar – I hope all is well with you now.

I think innocence ends when you understand that evil exists.

That may be well into adulthood if you have an ID. And that may be before you learn how to walk if you experience abuse at an early age.

Whatever the age of consent is.

@josie – I was told 45 when I was growing up.

That’s rough
When I was growing up nobody thought I would live to be 45, so they sort of gave me a pass on such high expectations.

@josie – So you had more dates, then?

I had plenty of dates. The problem is they were always the girls who stopped being innocent long before 45— probably 12 or something.

Girls like you, I couldn’t get past their Dad.

@josie -Strangely enough, my dad worried more about my brothers than my sister & I.
He must have overheard telephone conversations between us and our boyfriends. LOL!

@jca2 When my grandson was just a year old he lied to me! He somehow told me he wanted something, when he didn’t, and he just laughed and laughed!
I’d say at about 2 years, when they do something that’s wrong and they know it, they cease being completely innocent. But innocence does hang around until kids start going through puberty and they learn stuff they never knew before.

When they know the difference between good, bad, and punishment. Or when they’re dead.

When they can distinguish right from wrong and are old enough to make the choice…..and choose wrong. That is the point.