Should Jews be considered a nation?

I think that he means well, or at least he thinks he means well.

But – speaking as a Jew – this is not good. If Trump decides that Jews are a national group, then the nativists, the Christians, the white power people – will jump on that and use it as a means of calling Jews un-American, and putting us in concentration camps, and so on.

This is NOT a good thing for Jews in the US.

Would that translate to calling moslims a nation?

I think it is a good thing. Trump wouldn’t do anything to jeopardize the Christian votes and as we’ve discussed, most religions here are pro-Isreal/ pro-Jew. I know for me and most people I know, it would automatically lose our votes for him.

@elbanditoroso I am offended at your post, which is complete nonsense. Have you not been paying attention during Trumps years in office?

@elbanditoroso This does seem like it may bolster the idea that Jews have another allegiance in some people’s minds, i.e. to Israel. It’s hardly different than in 1960 when people were concerned that a Catholic president (Kennedy) would have allegiance to the Pope/Vatican and thus would not be loyal to the U.S.

I get that there is a fine line between criticism of Israel and anti-Semitism. A lot of criticism of Israel does start to sound like anti-Semitism (particularly the “Jewish cabal” trope), but I don’t know that this is a solution.

No. That would be discriminatory.

@KNOWITALL Have I been paying attention for the last 3 years? Silly question. Of course.

I’m sorry you’re offended that I named Christians as being dangerous to Jews. But the guy who shot up the synagogue in Pittsburgh was not Jewish (or Muslim). He was a Christian.

The KKK was (and is) almost all Christians (protestants and anti-Catholic christians).

The white supremacy groups in the NW states are largely christian anti-semites.

Honestly, as a Jew living in the US, I have more to fear from Christians than I do from Moslems.

@elbanditoroso It’s okay, I know people here love their broad, misinformed labels, true or not.

It’s not logical. Are Satanists a nationality? If so, what’s the point of the term religion when it becomes logically identical to nationality?

If we’re talking about recognizing Ashkenazi as a race if people wanted to identify that way, then I’m cool with that, but that’s a racial/ethnic distinction. A nationality would involve belonging to a particular nation-state. It doesn’t make logical sense to me, but perhaps I don’t fully understand the nuances at play here.

I really don’t understand how this would decrease Antisemitism. If Judaism is considered a nationality rather than a religion, it means that religious beliefs could be violated without First Amendment protections.

We don’t give people a day off for Bastille day; will Jewish people have to work on Rosh Hashanah?

This type of pseudo-benevolence serves only to label the close to 8 million American citizens who are Jewish as “other”. A good way to implement systemic abuse and removal of same.

I don’t like to be separated out as a group. Plus, people already conflate Israelis and Jews like it’s one in the same. I don’t know enough about Title VI to understand all the points made in the article. We are already covered under hate crime laws. As far as college campuses, I don’t even understand why any group needs to be singled out.

Thinking about this more, what would we say about a black citizen of the U.K. residing in the US who converts to Judaism?

Prior to the executive order, his race/ethnicity, religion/faith, and his nationality were all fairly obvious. Now it’s as clear as mud…

Thinking about this more, does that get Jewish on the census? That’s really not sounding good to me. If that’s the case I advise all Jews to not answer that on the census.

@gorillapaws As much as I think it’s probably not a good idea to give Jewish people a designation of a separate nation, I don’t agree with worrying about the black man from the UK who’s Jewish now living in America, because America is full of people who are mixed race and mixed ethnicities and mixed nationalities. We have this “problem” anyway. Already that black man probably does not describe himself as African American, but rather British or Scottish, or whatever part of the UK he is from. I guess he would figure out America uses Black synonymous with African American, and possibly use the term.

My neighbor was white and African, now what? Is she African American?

A friend’s mom is Chinese Peruvian. My friend who was born in America, looks Chinese like her mom, but her mom is Peruvian and her dad is white American? Is my friend Hispanic? Chinese? Caucasian?

My FIL is Middle Eastern Jewish – Mexican (born in Mexico) now living in America. Is he Hispanic? I think America would say he is, but the dictionary might disagree.

My nephew has an Italian, American, and possibly a Mexican passport, born in America, Mexican mother, Italian father. The Mexican mother is half Middle Eastern Jewish (that’s my FIL I spoke about). Is my nephew Hispanic? I think yes, America says he can check the box for Hispanic, but he easily could identify more with Italian or just white American.

I know a few Americans who are black and Asian.

America has all sorts of mixtures. Maybe one day we will stop trying to classify people by race and ethnicity. I know the data can be interesting and useful, but having the government group us this way maybe adds to the natural inclination humans have to group people, and focuses attention on grouping by race, religion, and ethnicity, rather than other things like similar interests and experiences.

Does the new law mean that students protesting against Israel would be considered anti-Semitic?

I think Jews have enough arguments amongst ourselves about whether we are a nation, a religion or a culture and it varies from Jew to Jew. I don’t think Trump putting his two cents in does anything to clarify matters and I can only see negative motivations for the declaration. It is not his determination to make.

And he should know that not all Jews think alike about Israel or finance or any other issue.

@janbb I couldn’t agree more with what you said. GA.

Leave it to CNN to make something negative out of this. Whenever the topic is Trump, you should automatically assume CNN will spin the story.

Hate groups have targeted Jews especially on college campuses and made antisemitism somewhat ‘hip.’ They have hidden behind laws protecting ‘free speech’ to spread libel and deep hatred. Trump’s executive order has made such efforts illegal as targeting a national or ethnic group. It is not a way to classify Jews as something ‘other.’ It targets antisemitism.

Of course, you could argue that Jews don’t need these protections from hate speech and discrimination.

Wait wait wait !

@Yellowdog woke-up after two days and the (Jews after 4000 years) don’t need . . . .

@Yellowdog I haven’t watched CNN in 6 months, and the Jews on this thread talked about things besides what is mentioned in the article. We are responding from our gut, not from CNN.

Even if Trump has good intentions, it doesn’t change the risks we worry about. Maybe it won’t be Trump who uses the information negatively, it might be someone in the future.

My gut reaction was the census, I didn’t read that somewhere or watch it on TV. If you are seeing that now in the media, it’s because anyone with knowledge of history would likely think the same. I’m hesitant to write that I’m Jewish on any form, even hospital forms. It’s engrained in us.

Read @janbb’s answer. It’s spot on.

@JLeslie The article cited in the original question was by CNN.

^^Well, I already had a reaction before reading. After reading it I still had my same feelings, and as I said the article didn’t even mention all of my concerns and feelings.

Trump isn’t Jewish, and his SIL is part of the more conservative crowd I guess, so neither of them speak for the majority of Jews.

When I become aware of how anti-conservative the majority of Jews are in the U.S. and even in Israel, I wonder why we bother so much, knowing anything we do will be condemned and given a negative spin.

I have stood with Israel against the Divest-Boycott-Sanction movements in the United Methodist Church and the PCUSA but have found that many Jews stand with the very party that is responsible for such movements. I do believe that there is at least a fraction of the Jewish population who recognize our efforts against antisemitism and hate crimes.

@Yellowdog What does the BDS movement have to do with Judaism? It’s a movement that protests the political actions and policies of the current Israeli administration. It has nothing to do with faith, except to the degree that the human rights violations that Israel is committing are immoral.