What is going on in New York City?

San Francisco just adopted “no cash bail” too, although it has not been explained how it will work.

it really comes down to: is this a person at risk of doing further damage if let out while awaiting trial? But then there is always the 8th Amendment poking up its head:

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

As for your other concerns:

I don’t believe cops should be in any school.

The evidence thing is that the DA can’t wait until right before the trial to share evidence. That is so they can’t disrupt the defense.

Cops should be in schools.
Some of the crimes on the list are violent crimes, and at least two people have re-offended upon being released.

And the key word in the 8th Amendment is excessive 10 grand for their first shoplifting offense, excessive.
Less to do with “are they at risk of doing further damage?” and more to do with “Are they at risk of fleeing?” Some people get $1 million bail for murder. Capital charges are serious and they usually don’t even get bail for that, especially if they have no ties to the community and even then, it’s a huge bail so that they don’t flee.

No cops in schools?
Something is definitely going on in New York City if cops are needed in schools.
Sorry, but sometimes, when I read things like that, I think yours is a bit a strange country.

@rebbel My school had a cop. All the schools in our area have cops. Not a bad school, has ranked nationally a lot. It’s a safety thing.

Cops definitely belong in schools. Where I live, 20 minutes from Newtown/Sandy Hook, our schools have full time cops in them. This is one of the most exclusive areas of the country, one hour to NYC, horse country, etc. It’s a beautiful area but better safe than sorry. The public cannot just walk into the school – there are locked doors, people have to be buzzed in, after showing ID, and there are cops. There’s a cop car in the parking lot as a deterrent.

As for the bail reform law, there are bad things happening in cities around here because of it. People are committing crimes, getting out and committing the same crimes immediately after. The governor is under attack because of it. People are pissed.

@jca2 and for good reason. The reform laws are bullshit. I could not imagine being a cop in NYC. Just horrible.
And yes. SROs are by no means perfect and their needs to be some changes (I wrote a whole research paper on this for school) but they are good and they do help.

If I may, I think @rebbel has a mistaken impression of the role cops play in schools.

They are not spending the day shaking down students, or searching lockers. Their role is not militant. In the schools my daughter attended, most of the students liked their “resident cop.”
Case: Divorced couple. Mother gets sole custody and a restraining order. Father went to his kid’s school drunk, and armed with a knife.

Case: Man robbed 7–11, police were in the area. In attempt to flee, suspect jumped the chain link fence, right into the play yard where my five year old was having recess. He jumped right back over the fence. Apparently he liked his chances better facing cops than seventy 5 to 8 year olds.

Case: Whimpy looking man passed himself off as a high school student, entering during lunch to sell dope to kids.

Cops in schools face many unusual events. They are needed. What’s more, the sense of safety makes it easier for kids to concentrate on their studies.

People in my school liked our SRO as well. They help educate, help with safety response in the school, they can be mentors. They are NOT there to just make arrests whenever they want. They are supposed to let all discipline be handled by school unless a serious legal offense. I don’t even think most kids that got caught vaping got arrested if any really.

I reported stuff to my SRO because I didn’t want to go to a police station. The Toronto Police-School Districts School Resource Officer program found more people reported being a victim of a crime when they had an SRO.
They also reported more students and staff felt safer.

It’s beyond just “oh they are there to arrest” they have many roles.A study from Texas State University interviewed 26 SROs and found that 46% described it as being a social worker, 38% described it as being an educator, and 35% described their role as being a surrogate parent.

The schools here in Madison, WI also have police. They call them resource officers. They are good schools but police presence is needed, especially when there are over 2000 students in the school. I get several emails during the school year about incidents that happen that could have turned worse if the resource officer wasn’t there.

This incident recently went national: https://madison.com/news/local/education/local_schools/cher-offers-to-cover-legal-expenses-for-fired-madison-school/article_3a2ac47e-d78d-507a-b157-4623c83be473.amp.html

@Patty_Melt: It was @zenvelo too who said cops don’t belong in schools.

If you live in NYC my suggestion is to pack up and leave. Go to a nice part of the state if you like New York state. But, you can move anywhere you like and you’ll wonder what took you so long.

@jca2, I realize that, but his objection sounds like informed opinion, whereas rebel is unaware of what US schools are like. His response seemed bewildered. I wasn’t singling out anyone as wrong. I was only clarifying their role for someone who is unaware. If he still thinks the situation barbaric, at least this way we know he understands to what he objects.

@Patty_Melt: Gotcha.

Maybe @rebbel doesn’t know about the Sandy Hook/Newtown shootings. That event a few years ago changed things in schools. Previously, anybody could walk into a school and you just had to go to the office to sign in. Since then, not only are there armed guards or police, but you have to be buzzed in or are otherwise locked out.

I would not want teachers to have guns, as some people do (not on Fluther but elsewhere in society, people have said it would be a good thing). However, I am for there being an armed guard or police officer present during the school day. If present safeguards were in place during the Sandy Hook massacre, it would not have been able to occur like it did, as the perpetrator would not have had access to the children.

I remember the day of the Sandy Hook shooting. My daughter was in school and I was having coffee in a local bagel shop as the news on the TV announced what was happening. It was kind of bewildering at first. When I went to pick up my daughter at school, a few hours later, I was not able to at first because the school was on lockdown. Sandy Hook is about 20 minutes from us and the whole community was reeling with what happened. So many people know people who were killed, or know people who know people who were killed. It changed things forever, locally and in the entire country.

I hope that explains things for people that might not know the impact it had on schools and school safety.

Sandy Hook gave my daughter a new look at teachers.
When they told on the news about a young teacher being killed while keeping her class safe, she looked at me with big eyes and tears. She thought of that happening to any of the teachers at her school and she just couldn’t handle it. She broke into tears a lot that day.
It gave her a new appreciation for her teachers which lasted right through graduation.

I had a small Police sub- station, in my high school. This was back in the 1990’s.
We had 20 something year old men, selling drugs, and being violent, who could just walk into the gym, by the boys locker room…
My Mother, was an English teacher, back in the early 80’s.She quit, because of the constant violence. Students, would assault teachers, and fight all the time. I think having a police officer, in schools, is needed.
Nowadays, there are school shootings. The officers, should be carefully vetted, but definitely be there. IMO…

@MrGrimm888 I agree with you especially on this point: “The officers, should be carefully vetted…” Most states don’t require any training for SROs to have. I think most people would assume that because they are a cop they should just be able to do it, but I disagree. The National Association for School Resource Officers (NASRO) offers training in teen mental health, AODA, and other things in working with teenagers. I feel that is very important training to have, and the average cop may not be insanely knowledgeable in Juvenile justice or teen mental health, beyond what they need in their job, SROs are specialized towards that.
I also believe they need to be vetted so we avoid the coward in Florida that didn’t do anything during the shooting. NASRO says that SROs NEED to take action in those situations.

^The training, in how to deal with kids is good idea. I didn’t think about that…

The guy in Florida. Yes. He should have tried to do something. He may have been able to save some of the victims.
That’s how high pressure jobs are though. You don’t find out if someone is truly fit for the job, until things go really bad.
Violent jobs, a different animal. There are lots of ways, people can be a bad fit, in these lines of work. Some are afraid of getting into a violent situation. Some want violence, so they escalate things, or overreact. Some abuse their authority. Some are just incompetent, or lack the ability to talk to people, or lack the abilities required to be successful in a violent situation.

I worked with a Cop once, who had killed a man, in a shoot out.
The way he desribed it, A man had barricaded himself in his house, and when the offer showed up with his partner, the man ambushed them and started firing on them… So. I feel lethal force, was necessary.
Both Cops, pulled an AR-15, from the trunk, and returned fire.
The man was killed. Since the officers were both firing the same caliber bullets, so they had to wait for a ballistics report before they knew which officer killed him. The Cop telling the story, said he hoped that it was him… I’m not sure what to make of that. I know he was doing his job, but to want to be a killer? I didn’t like that.
Turns out that it was his rifle, that landed the kill shots…

He said a female officer, approached him, after they found out that it was him who killed the guy. She expressed envy, and said that she couldn’t wait to kill some offender… To his credit, he said that bothered him. So. There are cowards, and psychopaths, in law enforcement…

You have to keep in mind that the guy in Florida (or any LEO with just a pistol,) would be outgunned, going against someone with a rifle, or shotgun. So. He had reason to be afraid, of engaging an active shooter. I, personally, would have went in, and hope to draw fire, until SWAT arrived. LEOs, don’t carry much ammunition on their person. Usually, they have a semiautomatic pistol, with about 15 rounds, and maybe two mags. So. He/she, isn’t equipped for a shootout.

So. It takes guts, to go into that situation…

And think of how many schools there are. The chances, of finding the perfect officer, for each one, are extremely low…

By my personal opinion (just my opinion, ) about 25% of LEOs, aren’t fit for the job. For one reason, or another.

So. That’s a big issue. It’s not a draft process. You can only hire, from the pool of applicants.

And, I would add, that a number of the most qualified LEOs, will get burnt out, and turn into someone who shouldn’t be doing the job…

The resources, simply aren’t there, to have all perfect officers. And, in many cases, there are no “right” responses, to the scenario. It’s a low paying job, and you sometimes, have a couple seconds, to decide what your response is. Live, die, kill?..

It’s not a line of work, that is attractive.