Am I uncool because I don't care for pitbulls?

Your tastes and preferences are whatever they are, but your posts here suggest that you are way beyond merely “not caring” for pit bulls. This is also revealed by you saying that you hope your dog—who has already met your standards for adoption—doesn’t have any pit bull in him. Your comment suggests you have fallen for the propaganda that surrounds them, which is definitely uncool. “Pit bull” is a shape. It is not a breed or a heritage. And there is no reliable evidence to suggest that the group of breeds known as pit bulls disproportionately possess negative qualities of any sort.

I’m very curious what has happened for her to almost think you were cool (previously halving found you not cool, apparently).

Maybe it was not so much the Pit Bull part that made her almost think you were not cool anymore, but more the fact that you, in her eyes, disregard any type of dog in your breed.

As in, “How can you be a dog lover, but not be an all dog lover?”.

This is one of the few subjects, that can make me really mad..
Pit bulls, have one of the most loving hearts, of any animal.
One has to torture them, to make them really mean…

They have a high energy drive. But, are not violent by nature.

I remember working as an EMT, at the Emergency Veterinary Hospital. I was doing a triage, on a Pit, once. It had irregular drag marks, all over it’s body. I asked the owner, what the wounds were. She said, the dog had been taken from her (stolen.)
Her son, was able to recover the dog, from it’s captures.
Turns out, someone was burning it, with a blow torch. Dog fighters, torture them, to make them mean. They beat them with shovels, or worse, to make them mean.
A true Pit, is one of the most loving animals alive. I worked in the veterinary field, for almost 9 years. I owed one, for over 15 years. My Pit, lived with 3 kittens, and a python. She never hurt them, and never hurt anyone. Her heart, was bigger than my own. It wasn’t uncommon to to see all 3 of my cats, lounging on her…
When I brought her to work, I would put her in a cage, with the 3 cats. She loved them, and would lick them clean. I NEVER once worried that she would harm them. And, she never did.
She even coexisted, with a bird, for a while.
Pits, are like me. They look like trouble, but they have a good heart….
They have a bad reputation. But. As we all know, reputation, is mainly stereotyped.
Some of the kindest dogs, I’ve known, are Pits, or a mix…
We used to have a saying, “lab-pits.” It was the greatest breed, I can think of.
It was a great tool, with no genetic problems…..

I think people get pitbulls for tons of reasons, not to be cool. It’s hard to wrap my head around how anyone could not like them if you’ve ever spent time around any because all of the pibbles I’ve ever met were big goofy babies.

Its not the Pitbulls themselves but how there owners trained them.
Ceasaer Milan stated that many times as he has a Pit bull which is well behaved and affectionate.

Because people are idiots on both sides.
Pitbulls can be perfectly good dogs with the right training. Can they be dangerous and are they responsible for unnecessary deaths? yes. Does that make them all bad? no.
Is getting a dog for the sake of being cool good? HELL NO. That’s what can cause dogs to attack and do bad things, and just be mistreated because the owner didn’t look into the dog fully before adopting.
My dog is a Labrador mixed with a pit. He was scared of cats. He freaks out at car horns. He’s a baby. There are exceptions to everything.
Point is: not liking pitbulls, who cares? You do you. As long as you aren’t some extremist who wants them all dead who gives a fuck? People need to shut up and let others do as they please.
(Also, Dutchess, I am not talking exclusively about you here. You made one facebook comment, i’m not saying you are horrible. You have an opinion and that’s a-okay. I was just addressing the issue as a whole) For you specifically: no you are not uncool for having this opinion.

I’ve told this story before.

Many years ago an acquaintance had the sweetest pit bull. She was fun, affectionate and lovable and was treated really well. My good friend was roommates with her owner. One night she was cuddling with my friend, and she “snapped” biting his face open and my friend needed plastic surgery. The day before, I would have sworn on my life that she would never be capable of that. I no longer trust the breed. That’s one anecdotal datapoint, and may-well be an outlier, but it was so such a surprise, and so out-of-character for her behavior that my opinion has changed.

Yes. They have a reputation of exploding with no warning or reason.

Some pit bulls are sweet as pie. Some are not.

I’ve known pit bulls that were scared of cats, because they (the pits) were so sweet and gentle.

I think it’s “uncool” to stereotype.

I’m with @gorillapaws, I don’t trust them. I’ve been around more than one that were sweet, lovely dogs, but I already have a mild fear of dogs, and the scary breeds are scary to me. I don’t feel it is simply the owners, I think some breed tends to be aggressive genetically. I think personality is a combination of genes and environment just like for humans.

Similar to @gorillapaws story, a friend of a work colleague of my mom years ago had a Doberman. One morning the dog turned on his wife (they were only married a short time) she died from the attack.

I think part of the problem is the strength of those dogs. If you have a little dog that bites you, you can likely get away, and that dog isn’t likely to be biting a crucial artery like a Pit, Doberman, German Shepard, or a Rottweiler can.

People may not want to accept that pit bulls are more likely to cause serious harm, but the people who run the numbers, like insurance companies, know differently. Many insurers won’t cover a pit bull if it causes harm. The insurers don’t cover several of the dogs considered to be more dangerous. If your pit bull causes harm you will be paying the medical bills, time lost from work, etc. Of course it’s not all about money, no one wants anyone to be harmed, but I’m just making a point about the statistic reality and financial risk.

Some people seem to equate being cautious about certain dog breeds to being racist against human beings, that’s ridiculous. It’s just not the same.

It’s the fucking assholes that ‘own’ the dog (and raised them/made them mean).
Not the dog.
Put those assholes down, instead of their dogs.

^ There is a difference between being cautious and being closed minded about specific breeds. I’ve had 3 Dobies in my lifetime and you couldn’t ask for a sweeter dog. One helped to raise me, one helped to raise my daughter, and the other was just a good old dog. I’m cautious of any dog I meet for the first time, but it has nothing to do with the breed, just getting to know the dog. I see being closed minded about specific breeds the exact same thing as being racist about certain nationalities. I find it offensive that you assume that my Dobie is a bad dog simply because of his breed. In my eyes, that’s just as racist as me assuming that your husband is an illegal who should go back to where he came from just because he’s Hispanic. Neither is true

Simple. You insulted her choice of dog breeds.

It’s not uncool, although I know perfectly what she means.

Many bad people use them as status symbols and guard dogs, drug dealers love them because they guard so well they’ll die before letting anyone in their area or near their people. You can also make a lot of money in the pits if you have a big, game dog that likes to kill.

One one hand, I agree with you and @JLeslie, they are game dogs and very strong. Not everyone can handle or raise them right, or train them properly. Also in cases of inbreeding, there are some strains that have ‘crazy’ tendency.

That being said, I’ve been blessed to have had several full pits and they were wonderful dogs. My female saved my life when someone decided to break in the window after cutting my phone lines (back in the day.) You definately can’t let them dominate you and some of them will try, they are very strong-headed animals and prone to being escape artists.

I was just thinking the other day about all the pits in the local rescues and if I’d want another. I’m getting older, so unless it was an older one or special needs, I probably will stick to easier breeds. It makes me sad because I love them so, they are smart, strong and beautiful and incredibly misunderstood.

Naw, Dutch, you’re uncool for many other reasons! (Just kidding, couldn’t resist!)

Pfffft!!

See what I mean? No cool person says “Pfffft”! (Just pulling your leg.)

All cool people say “Pfffft!” EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!!

Pffttd!...

There is nothing wrong with being smarter than the rest. I like it so much I stuck with it. ;)

Ran into this today & thought it in line with the convo here. As far as damage that can be done by a Pittie, they came in third with the Akita being #1. As far as aggressiveness goes, I found it interesting that a Dachshund & Chihuahua to be #1 & #2 with the Pittie way down the list.

“In the 14-year period of 2005 through 2018, canines killed 471 Americans. Pit bulls contributed to 66% (311) of these deaths. Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers contributed to 76% of the total recorded deaths.” dogsbite.org Denver and other cities that lifted Pitt Bull bans are reinstating them. I think the Pitt Bull should be eliminated from all urban areas. Rural area residents who have fenced yards pose little danger to others. The thing is, the Pitt Bull and Rotties are sweet dogs right up until the time they eat the baby. I have always said that anyone who owned one has no clue of the liability they pose and the danger to children. If they do, then they are morons for owning them.

There is an online test, in which people are supposed to pick a pit, from a variety of other breeds. I really wish I could post a link. But. Most people cannot pick a pit, from many other breeds. So. The data, from your source, is likely flawed. Stafford Shire Terrier. That, is a “Pit Bull.” They average, around 50 lbs, and are NOT typically the breeds , that person report doing the attacking.

When I worked as an EMT, at an Emergency Veterinary Hospital, over 80% of snake bites, were originally reported as from an Eastern Diamond Back. Until we showed the owner, how much the treatment cost. Then, people said, “well maybe it wasn’t a rattler.”
Most dog attacks, were reported, as Pit attacks…
I routinely heard, “it was a 150 lb Pit, that attacked my dog!”

Straight BULLSHIT…

People don’t know what they’re talking about…

Most dog, on human attacks, are because of human beings losing sight of their children. Lots of kids, fall down wells, or drown. Sadly. The response is usually the same. “I took my eyes of the kid, for a second.”
But. Wells, swimming pools, and rivers/oceans, are not persecuted.
Kids, have to be watched 24/7. They are constantly trying to kill themselves. They eat toxins, and shoot themselves, at an alarming rate too.

Dogs are protectors, of their territory. If you aren’t constantly watching them, they’ll find a way to get killed.
You can’t blame a well, or any other sources of death, on the source. It’s the Guardian’s fault.
I’ve been in charge of multiple nieces, and nephews. You have to be constantly vigil, of where they are, and what they’re doing.
If they wonder, into a dog’s territory, they will probably be mauled. Same as if they fall in a hole, or whatever. You have to have a constant eye on them…

THAT’S why they die. You can’t blame a dog, for your lack of vigilance. Anymore, than you can blame a swimming pool, or a bottle of bleach….

Sorry. But. There’s no difference.

I have NEVER had a dog that I had to worry was going to tear a child, or anyone, limb from limb just for walking in the yard. Never. If people have that kind of dog THEY are assholes.

Yes. Ultimately, people are the problem. Often times, people don’t know how to train their dogs.
I know that there are many dogs, just chained to a tree, or left in a yard. Those dogs, will be forever stuck, in default mode. Which is essentially, protect my territory.
Most animals, act the same. A Horse Fly, will attack anything, that comes into its territory. Ants, Bees, Hippos, birds, etc…

They aren’t “evil.” They’re just following their programs.

That silly argument no longer flies with intelligent and educated people. @MrGrimm888

I know many well educated, intelligent people who would argue that thought

Well. It’s just my opinion. But. It’s adopted from observation.

You have to train people too. That’s why there is an educational system…

There are indeed, well educated people who would argue both sides…
Only an uneducated, unintelligent person, wouldn’t contemplate both sides, of a debate. Having an unwavering, choice of opinion, would lead to the conclusion that that person, is unintelligent, and uneducated.
I am educated, and have a lot of experience with animals. I have a lot of experience with people too. Enough to know that, not all races/ethnic groups are the same…

We all, have different personalities. We all, have basic programs.
Example.
Fight, or flight…
That, is instinctive. But. It can be trained out of us. To an extent.

Dogs have been bred, to do specific tasks, over many generations. One of their primary traits, is to alert/protect areas. So. That’s a basic instinct. But. That trait, can be modified through training. If there is no/improper training, the dog will revert to it’s basic instinct. Like people…

Think of a scuba diver. Our basic instinct is to hold our breath, underwater. You have to train yourself, to breathe normally while wearing a scuba mask. Otherwise, you will go with your basic instinct, and there will be problems… You will have issues with levels of gas mixtures, or drown…

Fight, or flight. A most basic instinct. It can be overcome, with proper training. When trained properly, things slow down. You don’t have to run. You just mentally slow it down, and handle business…

A dog, will instinctively bark, when something is anomalous. I trained all of my dogs, not to bark. They come and get me, and quietly alert me to a problem.
I owned a Pit, for almost 16 years. She was great. No barking. No bitting. EVER…
She would just come get me, and imply something was wrong. If she woke me up, I knew something was wrong. Then, she would make me follow her, to what she thought was a problem.
As I’ve said before, she lived with 3 cats, a python, and a bird. She never hurt, any of them. She loved them…
It wasn’t uncommon to see them all laying together.
She was rough, when she was a puppy. I trained her out, of that. She NEVER hurt anything, her whole life… She certainly could have. But. I trained her not to…

You have to train an animal. Then. They are invaluable tools…

For those of you who assert differently, I wonder what you would have been without training….

Unable to read. Jobless. Homless. Wild animals…

Marinate, on that…

And it’s not just Pits. Lots of people abuse otherwise intelligent dogs, like Huskys, German Shepherds, so that their intelligence becomes a murderous weapon.
But there are SO many stories of pits who were raised right, who weren’t abused, who suddenly turn and eat the baby.
I don’t want a pitbull in my life.
Neither does Rick and he’s a dog lover.

^Well. Sounds like you have a piece of Pit, in your life. Are you going to give it a chance?..

Maybe it’s time to purchase a canine DNA kit so Cato’s pedigree can be straightened out. Of course the shelter is NOT going to admit any Pit background because that would mean that Cato would never be adopted, so they told a little lie to get you to take the dog. Or maybe they didn’t know her exact background.

But there are SO many stories of pits who were raised right, who weren’t abused, who suddenly turn and eat the baby.
How do you know they were raised right??? Until caught red handed, ALL of Michael Vick’s friends would have sworn that he raised all his dogs right when the TRUTH was that he was abusing them horribly…It’s NOT just drug dealers who abuse Pits!!! Of course there are NO reports on the Pits who NEVER attack anyone because that is NOT “news”. It’s ONLY the horror stories that make it on the news!!! For every Pit that bites, there may be 50–100 that love their baby sibling & wouldn’t dream of biting.

I had a neighbor who had a Pit when they moved away & left him behind. The dog moved himself into my yard because he could eat my dog’s food & not starve. He was a very loving dog towards me, but my Mom freaked out when I said that I was thinking of keeping him because she just knew he was going to kill me. I called every Pit rescue in the state plus the states bordering mine. They were all full to capacity & the local shelters would not take him because he was considered non-adoptable. Finally the original owners came back to get some furniture that they had left behind & I cornered them telling them that I couldn’t keep the dog & that the ONLY shelter that would agree to take him had assured me that he would be put down within 3 days. They gave me some sob story about how a friend was supposed to take him & they didn’t know that he had been abandoned. When I asked them IF they preferred that I call the shelter that would take him but put him down, they decided to take him home with them. They had a physically & emotionally challenged child & I ran into him a few weeks back. He hugged me for making his mom & dad take the dog back. He still has the dog & it’s been more than 10 years & the dog has NEVER bitten anyone!!!

IF there is any Pit in Cato, it might be so tiny as to not be a dominating factor. So, to relieve your mind as well as Ricks, get a canine DNA kit & find out for sure what breeds make up her life!!!

I don’t know if he’s pit or not @MrGrimm888. I would never rehome a well behaved dog just because he might have a bit of a certain breed in him that I didn’t recognize when I got him. The problem is, he’s so f’ing rambunctious, chasing the kids down and taking them down. He hasn’t bitten anyone, but he’s snapped, in fun “just” playing. I just don’t know what the hell to do.

@Dutchess_III If you can afford it, some sessions with a private dog trainer could make a big difference in Cato’s behavior and your ability to work with him.

^Agreed.
Lots of big box pet stores, offer group training. I like that, because it gets the dog used to being around other dogs too…

Some dogs, are just naturally energetic. Take him on long walks, or play fetch with him. Tire him out…

Many dogs, just want a job to do. Playing fetch, is a job. You could buy a number of devices, that add distance to your throwing range.

I do, McGrimm. I throw a ball about 5 times a day.
The vet expressed concerns about Cat’s aggression. He flat did not like the vet and he was very aggressive about it. He’s never been THAT bad before. :(

^That’s normal. Imagine if aliens abducted you, and started doing painful things to you? Even if it was for your benefit, you wouldn’t understand… You would likely resist…

None of my dogs, even Frodo, were aggressive at the vet’s. I consider that another red flag that this dog needs training.

He’s only ever known one vet, so an unknown person was messing with him & he didn’t appreciate it!!!

Sounds like he thinks he’s pack leader. Rick should take hun to training.

Rick. Is the Alpha male. Dogs, respect a chain of command….

He’s known more than one vet @LadyMarissa. He didn’ t do that to the other vet I took him to several weeks ago. As he gets older it gets worse.

No, I’m alpha @MrGrimm888 Rick tells him to sit or stop or what ever and Cato just ignores him. One word from me, from across the room, and he sits or stops or what ever. I have spent a lot of time training him, non aggressivly and non violently. Rick has not.

I stand corrected.

Guys. The alpha myth is entirely disproven. It’s based on an idiotic study on captive wolves that’s decades old and disregarded by the very same scientists who first propagated it. It’s made up. Unless Cato is a captive wolf, he’s not thinking about rank. And he listens to Dutchess, but not Rick because she’s the one who’s attempted some fair training. How sad and wrong to assume that Rick is the boss because he’s male. Even the captive wolves were progressive enough to pick their leader based on inner qualities, not external genitalia.

As evidenced from when he was a puppy, Cato has fear-issues. Untreated, those turn into aggression. It happens every single time.

Thank you @longgone.

@longgone I’d like to see the paper disproving alpha myth actually.

Here ya go.

I just keyed in “The myth of the alpha wolf” and got a hundred hits. Business Insider seemed the most trust worthy.

Oh good. Here is one from Nat Geo.

@Dutchess_III Thank you, I was wanting to go a bit deeper, but I’ll find it. :)

It’s interesting that out of all the animals in the world, the ones sleeping in our beds/homes, are the ones we have made so little progress in understanding. Fascinating.

A bit deeper how?

@Dutchess_III Like a scientific article, these are just a few paragraphs. I’m just interested in it, no worries.

It’s not a response to just K9s.
Take lions, for example. The “leader,” is a male lion. He may have multiple females, that do the bulk of the work. But. He protects the pride, and gets first dibs, on any kill…

Bull elephants. Bull hippos. Bull alligators. Etc…
It’s extremely common in nature.
It doesn’t mean that the male is smarter. He’s just way bigger, stronger, and more capable of fighting off threats…

It’s the same, in almost every type of pack animal.

You could easily argue that the females, of most species, are the most important. I would agree. But. There is a reason that the females want a big/strong mate’s DNA…

Plus. Females, often live longer than males. The males, are expendable. They are just there, for utility.

We are meant to be used, and thrown away…

The females are smarter too.

Both genders, bring something different to the table.
I won’t debate, intelligence, between the genders…

^ Smart man.

That’s certainly debatable. But, I learn, from what I ovservre…. That, depends, on what you think I observe….Or my perception of what I think Ive observed…

@KNOWITALL To clarify: There was no paper disproving the myth. There was a paper propagating the myth, and that was then disproven. The second link I’m posting is straight from David Mech’s website.

The myth was first proposed in 1944, propagated in ‘81, then falsified by the same scientist (David Mech) and a bunch of others in the nineties. Since then, poor David has been trying to get the public to listen. He regrets spreading those myths, but can’t do much now. It must be tragic for him. He loves wolves and dogs, and has to live with the knowledge of being responsible for a good chunk of dangerous misinformation. Right now, all over the world, you can bet there are dogs being physically and emotionally abused in an attampt to be “pack leader” and “achieve dominance”.

Sources: 1, 2, 3, and a cartoon.

@MrGrimm888 I haven’t researched lions, but I’ll take your word for it. However, Cato, Rick, and Dutchess are not lions. It doesn’t make sense to extrapolate from one species to another. We might as well look to bees and conclude that Dutch rules her hive with an iron fist, while Cato’s display at the vet’s office was an attempt at communicative dance.

^I disagree. Clearly Dutch, is the Alpha, in her tribe…

There is also such a thing as “resource protection.” Where domestic animals, will protect the people who feed them.

@MrGrimm888 I’m confused. None of what you said disagrees with my points. I am familiar with the concept of resource guarding. Many of the dogs I work with initially guard their toys or owners.

@MrGrimm888 Listen, no amount of links or advice replaces first hand knowledge of your animal. Each one is different, like kids, as you know. If you are comfortable with your training, then go with it.

No article or link can tell me that some aggressive breads don’t require dominance exercises, which I have personally performed many times and worked very well, and were recommended highly by a well-respected vet. And my dogs never bit one person- without permission.

@KNOWITALL If we’re going for anecdotes…I’ve seen those exercises go horribly wrong. On the other hand, I went to the vet with a formerly aggressive dog that I’ve been training today. Through gentle methods based on trust and treats, she is learning that there is no need to be scared of people anymore. She went from snarling at old ladies on the street to letting the vet vaccinate her without any sort of aggression. She is still timid, and we’ll keep working on it. But she has a deeply trusting bond with her family, who have helped her through the aggression instead of scaring her more. She’s just a clueless young dog. Showing aggression when she’s fearful doesn’t make her bad, it means she needs help. If she were a teenager with social anxiety, few people would suggest scaring that out of her. Chances are she would go to therapy – and that’s what I try to offer.

If turning a dog with these problems around is possible in a humane way, I don’t understand why dog lovers wouldn’t pick that route. And what’s more, I don’t think @MrGrimm888 is very comfortable with forceful training. I know he loved his dog more than anything. I know what it feels like to have hurt someone you love. And I’m trying to help people see that they can teach their dogs without causing pain, so that they don’t need to feel guilty afterwards. I don’t want to speak for @MrGrimm888, but I believe it’s common knowledge that he’s an animal lover. I’ve had many, many loving and gentle clients come to me with the belief that they needed to inflict some sort of pain to make their dog listen. When they find out that they can achieve joyful, instant responses through a new type of training, they are relieved. They don’t want to show aggression. Just like the dogs, they simply didn’t know what else to do.

We use a no pull harness for our dogs. The boy is 91 pounds and his sister is 84 pounds. The theory is the harness connection to leash on the front of the chest knocks them off balance pulling to the side. There is no load on the throat and the neck.

(redacted) There’s no point.

@KNOWITALL I didn’t and wouldn’t say that anything but my way is abusive. In fact, I agree that saying this would be illogical and yes, arrogant. I try to stay very conscious of different routes. For example, there are plenty of dog trainers whose methods I agree with only to a certain extent, yet I still recommend their work to my clients.

What I actually am saying is that force, be it through psychological intimidation or physical pain, has no place in healthy dog training. And the exercises you brought up usually include both. Throwing a dog on his back, for example, can definitely be painful. Cesar Millan literally hangs dogs until they can’t breathe.

@longgone There are many great techniques that aren’t abusive that work great on aggressive dogs, so on that we’ll agree. Good day.

Not alpha all the time @MrGrimm888. It depends on the circumstances. I mean, look at the Obamas. Barack could arguably be considered Alpha….but you know there are situations where Michelle backs him down and overrules him.

@Dutchess_III Shoot, I’d rather fight Barry than Michelle any day. True story.

Same here, man! I sometimes pretend that I get a chance to meet him as president. I’d be all, “No, not you! Where is Michelle??”

@Dutchess_III haha, exactly. I use her quotes all the time.

Oh my….

@KNOWITALL, “They go low we get high.” Wait…that’s not exactly it. I’d be high all the time if it was!

@KNOWITALL

“No article or link can tell me that some aggressive breads don’t require dominance exercises….”

So true. One of my neighbors was mauled by a vicious loaf of rabid rye! ;-0

Lol! I caught that too! Her spell check is very drunk!

@Brian I didn’t notice, that is funny!!

@KNOWITALL

It’s one of those errors that a spellchecker won’t mark, because you did use the correct spelling for bread.

Regardless, veterinarians and bakers both agree, that whole wheat is the most dangerous breed of bread!

@Brian1946 hahaha!!! Bread-specific legislation should be outlawed!

My spell check gets drunker and drunker with every upgrade. Today it refused to recognize the word “wouldn’t.” Kept wanting to change it to “bread.”

@Dutchess_III My spellcheck doesn’t work on this site well, even via mobile. It’s annoying. I try to catch them all but when I’m tired, I fail. Sometimes the names pop up, sometimes they don’t.

Same here.

Finally, I found something good in the news about a pit bull! Buddy is credited with saving this little 3 year old’s life. Buddy was intelligent enough to know when the rescuers arrived that they were there to help and not once did he offer to bite anyone. After all the negative press pitties get, I find this article refreshing

I’m sure I could find a lot more positive articles about them. It just depends on the key words you use to search by.

News. Is really bad news. You don’t hear much about good things.
There are thousands of great Pits, out there. Warm, loving, and great dogs. You generally only hear about bad stories. When is the last article you saw, about a Poodle biting a kid? It happens. But… It never makes the news…

People are attacked, by all sorts of animals, all the time. But. It isn’t considered news worthy…

My son used to foster Pitts, American Staffordshire Terrier, Bull Terrier (General Patton’s dog) and Great Danes. He lived in semi-rural Maine and most of the dogs were from inner city Boston. He never had a dog with bad behavior just dogs that needed a lot more exercise.

@Tropical Exactly. Running them worked so well for me and my girl, too. 100% agree.

Great news! I just forwarded this question to Linda Blair! ;-p

That’s why I’m glad I have a double lot. Cato can run his ass off pretty well in the space we have.

@Dutchess_lll I didn’t do a search to find a happy story on a pit. That was a news story that was reported on the local news this past week. What if this boy’s mom had thought like you, she would have gotten rid of the dog and it wouldn’t have been there to save her baby. I understood your doubts when you first started defending your position; however, the more you speak the more you sound like you’re looking for a reason to get rid of Cato. IMO, the only reason you need is that you no longer want the dog. Cato deserves a good and loving home where his new owners have no doubt that he’s a good dog. My neighbor has a chiuahua that has bitten 2 out of 3 of her children and also bit the mailman. I know a 10 pound dog doesn’t do as much damage as a 75 pound dog, but I still don’t think that he should be put down. The 2 boys that he bit tease him relentlessly and I didn’t see him bite the mailman. What I don’t understand is that if you really love this dog that you aren’t willing to try and fix a problem that you perceive that you have. Cato was a sweet and loving dog until the ear mite problem and now he’s a menace to the family. Have you considered that the new vet might not be as wonderful as you seem to think? Maybe Cato knows more about this vet than you do

@SEKA Not disagreeing with everything you’re saying but Dutchess has mentioned problems with training Cato and aggression before the vet incident.

But. He isn’t violent, with her…

@MrGrimm888 Neither was my dog but he bit many of my friends.

^I guess you have to treat the animal, like a gun… Keep it away from other people…

He DOES show small signs of aggression toward me. Yesterday I bent down and he jumped an nipped at my nose. I felt teeth. It didn’t hurt at all, and I suppose he was just playing, but it is not acceptable to me.

I just read a comment on another site that made me think of this thread, and I thought I’d share it.

”The most ridiculous misuse of the word [‘dominance’] probably happened while I was at an adoption fair for the previously mentioned rescue. A sweet and shy pit bull by the name of Stella was brutally alpha-rolled by her foster (literally picked up into the air by her neck and slammed to the ground) because she alarm-barked at a kid, and was struggling wild-eyed for about ten minutes until she finally stopped, gasping for breath. Then her foster (leader of the dog team, ugh!) called on another volunteer to ‘walk threateningly towards Stella!’. At this point, Stella emptied her bladder in fear. So while this person is walking stiffly and menacingly towards Stella, staring directly into her eyes, her foster comments ‘She is just so dominant! She always acts scared when someone threatens her!’ (Source)

I’m not saying that any other dog would have been treated with more kindness by this lady. It’s a fact, though, that many “breeds-that-are-seen-as-dangerous” have spent some time in rescue facilities. It’s also a fact that many rescue organizations are staffed by animal lovers who don’t have any certifications. And while they do important work and are to be admired, some of them fall prey to dangerous stereotypes and old, cruel techniques. There’s a good chance Stella remembered this incident. Next time she feels unsure about a kid, what is she going to do? Communicating with her human is not allowed (and dangerous). She’s much more likely to fend for herself. And if this includes lunging at a child, that’s on her handler who selfishly considered only the outward symptom of the issue – not the root cause.

Well, Dutch. Have you developed a potential plan, on how to deal with Cato?
I’m hopeful that you will pursue training…

I think I have mentioned before, that I adopted a Ball Python. I had him for years. He was mostly nice. But. He did try to kill me once. Because of my personal ignorance. I had just finished working out, and I thought he would like my warmer than normal body, to cling to. But. He saw my different body temperature, and attacked me. I took him out of his cage, like I did every night, and placed him on my shoulders. Suddenly, he wrapped around my neck, and started squeezing. I went to the restroom, to look at the mirror. He was in attack pattern. Neck, drawn out to strike, and was really squeezing my throat. I grabbed him, and he bit me, multiple times on my arms. He was over 6 feet long, and as thick as my arm. But. He was no match for me. He weighed like 15 lbs. So. I pulled him off, and straightened him out. I guess that hurt him. I put him back in his cage, and he seemed to be in pain, as he slithered into his “house.” He didn’t come out, for weeks, and I didn’t bother him, other than to check on him. Later, we made up, and he never tried to hurt me again.
I kept him, for several more years. But. I grew tired of feeding him live rats. I asked around, and found a lesbian couple, who loved snakes…
I gave him to them, and all his stuff. A 100 gallon aquarium, and his heat rock, and his heating element. It was probably $1,000 of stuff.
My only stipulations were, if they didn’t like him, they had to do what I did. Find him a good home, and give the new owner, all his stuff… That was probably 9 years ago. To my knowledge, they still have him. That makes me happy…

He’s over 8 feet now, and is doing well.

I’m saying this, because sometimes, an animal just isn’t for you. But. It helps to give the animal, to someone who will be a good owner.

The more I read your posts, it seems like you are thinking about finding a new home for him.

I trust that you will do the same. If, it comes to that.

I wish you luck, in whatever you decide to do. And I don’t want you to feel bad, about this decision.

Like human relationships, it doesn’t always work out.

It doesn’t make you a bag person, to find him a new owner.
Just make it perfectly clear , that you trust the new owners, to do the right thing….

I’m sure you will. But. Don’t give him to a shelter….Unless it’s a “no kill” shelter.

That’s just my advice. Which really doesn’t matter…

I hope that you can keep him, and keep him…

Peace n love….

Woke up this morning and his chin was resting on my cheek. I looked up at him and I swear He was smiling! Then he licked my face until I hid under the covers.

Sounds like you have a great dog, with some fixable issues.

He is a great dog…who jumps at faces. :(

@Dutchess_III Does he have a strong default behaviour? That is to say…when he’s excited and he wants something, what does he do?

Oh, he starts whipping around like a freaking snake on speed and twisting and dodging for no reason. The kids came over today. All I could do was hold him down with both arms and both legs until he calms the fuck down! I know he’s happy, but he needs to learn a better reaction.

Yes, he does. And while he’s acting like a manic snake, he’s learning that acting like a manic snake is fun and will eventually get him closer to his goals. That’s not good. I thought you solved the visitor problem with the help of a Kong? Is that not working anymore?

The default behavior is very important and easy to teach. The thing to remember is that this is not a traditional command or cue. You won’t be saying anything. This one is for your dog to communicate with you.

Wilson occasionally mouthed my legs when he was a young dog, as many puppies do. I taught him a strong default “down”. To this day, whenever he wants me to do something – throw a ball, open a door, hand over that bone – he lies down. I taught him by just holding the object of desire until he figured out that lying down would mean immediate access. It’s a dog’s way of “asking nicely”. In my experience, teaching this works best with a toy. Go outside with a ball, but don’t throw it. The millisecond he lies down, chuck it. Repeat About five times a day for a week or so, and you have a Default behavior. No need for any words at all. This technique will only work if your dog has a general idea that “down” is a behaviour humans like. If he doesn’t, there are other ways to teach it.

While you could use other behaviours, I would strongly recommend a “down” for Cato. It’s hard to bounce while you’re lying down. The lovely part is that when a default behaviour becomes strong enough, it will often replace a dog’s automatic ways of dealing with frustration and arousal. Then, when Cato feels the need to jump or nip, he’ll automatically lie down instead. Wilson lies down whenever he feels the urge to go ram my sister’s tiny dog. Which is very good, because we can then give him a toy to play with instead.

Oh good idea! And I have just the thing! I’ll let you know. Thanks.
I tried the Kong…it didn’t distract him. Not one bit.

Wow!!!! Rick is sick. Really sick. I made him homemade chicken and veggie soup. He was finally ready to try some. I brought him a bowl of soup into the living room. Cato tends to beg from Rick. Not from me though. I just let Rick deal with his problem.
When I set the bowl down Cato jumped up, staring at it.
I shook my finger at him and said “Do. Not. Beg. If you do I will put you outside!!”
Then I went back in the kitchen to fix my own food. Took ~ 5 minutes.
Came back out, sat down and started eating. After about 3 minutes it hit me…CATO WAS LAYING ON THE FLOOR AT RICK’S FEET AND NOT BEGGING!!
He got a treat so fast it made his head spin!