Is this florist illegal/immoral?

It sounds like she is making personal deals at her place of employment, and ordering in her authorized purchaser account to get side deals at Krogers discounted prices, which I’m sure her employer would not appreciate.

Let’s say things went bad and she didn’t deliver, you’d have to sue her personally, not Krogers, so there’s little recourse for you minus court. And would you go before a judge, and tell this story, expecting sympathy when you knowingly engaged in a contract that sounded fishy?

It’s a judgement call, but personally, I’d say thanks but no thanks and go through Krogers. I’d also call Krogers and speak to management about the situation.

So maybe I should just go through Kroger directly instead despite the $300.

@chelle21689 It’s your judgement call, but I would. They have receipts and that means there’s legal recourse. Sometimes you get what you pay for, and the quality your fiance’s sister got may not be the same as what you’d get.

No her flowers were really nice but they were directly through Kroger. She didn’t order centerpieces. I also liked my design she gave me of the sample.

Kroger doesn’t deliver but she’s willing. But sounds like I might have to find someone reliable to pick it up on the day of the wedding. I’ll just let her know I’m going to go through Kroger payments at full price lol.

I agree with @knowitall. We all love a bargain, but for something as important as flowers for your wedding day, I would not get the lady doing a side gig behind Kroger’s back. What if she got fired or something before your wedding and had no way to get the flowers? Since Kroger doesn’t deliver or set up, I think I would go to someone who did. That is less stress on you on your wedding day.

I had to take a Lyft (like Uber) on the same route everyday for a few weeks. I just negotiated with the driver so we could cut out Lyfts profit. I saved a few bucks and he made a few bucks extra. A company that just went through an IPO was harmed. No moral qualms about that!

The gig economy is all about exploitation.

You save, the small guy makes more. Big company gets less. Everyone that is important wins.

The florist is being dishonest. And, IMHO any cooperation by you makes you complicit.

So I called around different Kroger floral shops and not everyone does weddings it depends on the florist, and depending on the florist it seems different from what they charge. That’s odd.

The florist is sneaky and dishonest. I would avoid doing business with her if possible.

(Sung to the tune of “Illegal Weapons” by that 80’s band…)
OOOooo!!! Evil florist! They oughta’ be against the law!

But no. This doesn’t sound illegal or immoral to me. It sounds more immoral to me to avoid this passionate woman you’ve worked with in favor of a more corporate supply chain.

“My parents found out and they think that I shouldn’t go to her because it’s not Kroger and they said it was stealing since she’s basically taking the business.”
– I don’t see where it is stealing, at all. She’s not “taking the business” – Kroger has no monopoly on your business, and no “right” to your business. It’s your business, and you choice, where you get your flowers from.

And, it’s only the florist’s business where she gets her flowers from, what she pays for them, and whether she tells you anything about that or not.

She told you more than she needed to about how she gets the flowers, and it doesn’t even sound illegal to me at all, and your told your parents, and they have some notion I don’t understand that Kroger has some right to be the one you do business with?

Sounds to me like (as @johnpowell mentioned) she’s just buying from a wholesaler, which makes sense since she’s the retailer (AND service provider – Kroger would not be providing you with her consultation and passion) and she’s just not marking you up as much as Kroger does.

At most, it sounds like she might be taking advantage of her position is some ways, but “taking advantage” in this case sounds to me like (VERY small scale) capitalism, not wickedness.

@Zaku
I called around different Krogers and they said I’d be paying for the flowers, it’s the labor cost that I’d be paying for. This is where my current florist said that’s where she’d be giving me a deal and and win/win for us and just pay her out for the labor directly. I’d still be purchasing the flowers. So they’d still get the profit of me buying flowers but the taxes/cost from her labor is where it’d be to her directly. She has connection to the wholesaler even without Kroger (I looked online and I can even purchase myself) for the other greenery/flowers that Kroger wouldn’t have.

My gut isn’t that she’s scamming me but to just make money. But my parents scared me when they said I’d be involved with a crime apparently.

What is the problem here?

If you are worried they will flake they will with Krogers involved or without. Krogers can’t help if they don’t deliver the goods. Might be easier to get a refund but your special day is still without flowers.

Spend the extra cash on a croquembouche.

I’d go for it, but carefully.

I’m not totally sure in what way the florist is employed or paid by Kroger’s, but her offering you a separate deal is certainly not illegal. The florist may or may not be violating the terms of her employment by taking this contract away from them, but that’s really between them and Kroger’s.

Keep in mind, you have now hired a potentially dishonest florist because it was cheaper.

Yeah, I don’t see any problem. It sounds like that’s not even worrying to Kroger, if they’re answering your questions about it an not getting really uncomfortable and saying, “Er, it sounds like they’re doing something they’re not supposed to.”

Sounds to me like Kroger is probably lucky she’s still working for them, rather than starting her own floral business and cutting them out completely.

I’m not an expert on flowers, or arrangements. But. If you know what you want, why not buy directly from the questionable ladie’s suppliers? You’d still probably get them for less, maybe not as cheap. But, you would be out of the potentially illegal part…

@MRGrimm888, I would have to put everything together myself lol

Nothing immoral or illegal about it. She’s not stealing Kroger’s property and there’s nothing in the law that says a person can’t take a side gig. There might be something in her employment agreement with Kroger’s, but that’s not your concern. She knows her terms of employment and accepts any potential repercussions as far as that goes.

@Darth_Algar I think the main concern is what if she leaves/gets fired. But she said she’s been employed there for 20 years and she can get it from the wholesaler without Kroger anway, plus she’d sign my contract. But someone mentioned earlier that it probably would be laughable because if something were to happen then it might not withhold since I knew willingly it went around Kroger’s back. I have her phone number and her address too, I don’t think she’d back out of something that’s $600 worth. I’d make half down payment as it nears my wedding date and the rest afterward.

@chelle21689 . If you go with the lady. Try not to pay her, until her responsibilities are met. Or give her half of the money first, and the other half when you are satisfied. Just my opinion…

@MrGrimm888 Yes, above your response I mentioned it’d be half payment (I can do this right before the wedding) and then another after.

I do not know if it is illegal or not, but it is definitely not immoral.
RoA #211: Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don’t hesitate to step on them.

@ragingloli Playing Devil’s advocate here, so you see no problem with going behind a company’s back to do your own business?

My main concern isn’t really if it’s morally wrong lol but moreso if it’s illegal and if I’d have an issue was all.

@chelle21689
The bigger the company is, the less I care.
Their faceless HR departments would not bat an eye at throwing you out on the street at the slightest inconvenience, no matter how much havoc it would wreak upon you.
They would show no mercy to you, so you should show none to them.

Loli is spot on.

It is very important to remember that HR is paid by the person you have a problem with. They are not in your corner.

I would do whatever puts less stress on me while planning a wedding.

@chelle21689 “I think the main concern is what if she leaves/gets fired.”

That is her concern, not yours. It’s one she willingly accepts.

And around Kroger’s back? You are not bound to Kroger’s. You have no obligation whatsoever to conduct business with them. Neither is she bound to them. They are not her master, they do not own her. She swore no oath or vow of loyalty to them. She is not using their merchandise for her own purposes and there is no legal or moral compunction about her doing her own business outside of her employment with them.

If you met the lady thru Kroger, and she offered you a side deal, then I’d say it’s immoral ofor the woman to be using the store’so customers behind their backs. However, you didn’t meet the lady thru the store. You met her another way so she’s not doing anything wrong. If you were referred by your sister, the lady is most likely trustworthy.

I would agree with @jca2. I have a Rolodex full of craftsmen and people in the trades, now mostly retired, whose work I admired, or were recommended to me. And so many of them worked for contractors, yet performed work for me in their off hours, that I couldn’t keep track.

Well my fiancé’s sister met her through Kroger but I did go there to talk to her.

Anyway, I did talk to other stores and not everyone does centerpieces depending on the florist. Most don’t even do. Because it says they take up their hours. They charge you for the flowers and for labor cost to that florist. So basically it’s the same except it’s not through Kroger labor rate and taxes but directly to her.

Update: So I received a text from the florist and she said she thinks it’s best she doesn’t do the flowers for my wedding. She said I’m making too many changes and asking too many questions, that I’m making her uncomfortable.

I’m sorry. I think a lot of brides ask a lot of questions and change their minds a lot. Hopefully you can find a florist that is more in tune with weddings. If you are on Facebook you could ask for recommendations. Good luck!

@chyna I also got the feeling she thinks I might cause her to get fired maybe… because of all my questions but anyone working with brides knows how it is. I don’t change my mind, I just had questions to protect myself but I guess she’s doing the same. I’m sort of relieved…

She probably is as well.

Just wondering what’s in the contract she signed as employee of Kroger’s?

@mazingerz88 I don’t know because I can’t see it.

It depends on the company policy. I’m not sure I understand the details, but I think I can add some information that might be interesting or helpful.

I was a cosmetic manager and buyer at Bloomingdale’s. Some of the employees did make-up for weddings. Sometimes the wedding party came in store, but some of the make-up artists went to the wedding venues or people’s homes. Here’s the thing, Bloomingdales doesn’t charge for make-overs, it’s free. Some make-up counters require a $50 fee, but it goes towards product, I’ve seen MAC do that. That’s a rarity in the business. If they did make-up outside of work in their own time, they made good money, we were fine with that. If they had been pushing a make-up line not sold by Bloomingdales, then that would be a problem.

The hope is to sell product. If one of our employees made money on the product by buying with an employee discount and selling to a customer at retail they would be fired! But, I never heard of anything like that going on. The wedding make/overs if anything brought sales into the store.

If Kroger offers wedding services then probably what this girl is doing is against company policy. You could always call a different Kroger and ask if their employees in the florist department can do parties outside of work.

Our employees in my company technically were supposed to tell us about any opportunities to buy a golf cart from a customer, and they did come to us, but my husband always let our employees buy it for themselves and make money that way. I thought he was wrong to do it, but he didn’t want to get involved with buying and selling. Anyway, technically, if the cart is “found” during hours working for us, then it is ours, but if they had come across a cart to buy where they live or in a classified ad, then we would have no expectation of them having to tell us about the cart at all.

Sounds like it wasn’t ok if the girl got nervous, or maybe she’s just nervous about the responsibility of it all since you mentioned contracts, and of course you should have a contract! Absolutely reasonable and recommended.

@JLeslie I think it probably wasn’t allowed because all other Krogers described how the payment would work lol None of them mentioned an alternative payment.

@JLeslie “If Kroger offers wedding services then probably what this girl is doing is against company policy.”

As far as I am aware they do not. They basically just offer flowers and small, pre-made arrangements for purchase over-the-counter.

I’ve seen discussions involving bakers on Facebook where they all say cakes for weddings are so much more expensive, as are other things for weddings, because of the indecision and changes made by the bride and groom. I don’t say that as an insult to any bride or groom, and I’ve never been married so I’m sure it’s a huge thing to plan a wedding.

At my job we plan an annual fancy holiday party for over 500 guests, but it’s basically the same party every year so we have it down to a science.

I can imagine it’s probably extremely difficult and stressful to plan a party for dozens or hundreds of people, with speeches, music, fancy dresses (wedding dress and bridal party), jewelry, hair, makeup, seating arrangements, family politics, food choices, dessert choices, cake design, cake flavor, photographer, videographer, flowers and floral arrangements, ceremony, honeymoon, the list goes on and on and so many decisions for each thing.

I have always regarded the extreme stress and expense of extravagant weddings second on the list of self inflicted catastrophes available to couples, the first being the decision to rear children.