Should Joe Biden drop out after these new claims of sexual assault?
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No
He should suffer and answer to the opprobrium that he deserves.
If he drops out, the electorate is spared making a moral judgement.
Which is what they want, so they don’t have to actually declare their true colors and so they can be safely chicken shit bastards.
He did not drop out, and no one has spared Donald Trump. Why should Joe Biden be spared? Hang in there Joe!!!
Only if trump resigns because of sexual claims against him.
Didn’t watch the video but no.
You guys do realize that if he drops out now there is still another viable candidate? One who has never been accused of sexual impropriety?
If the Kavanaugh hearing showed us anything, it’s that the wild days of “accusations = life is over”, while fun, are over. It’s gonna take a little bit more than that to take down Biden (and the Democratic establishment that supports him).
Well, this on top of his horrible policies of the past and current positions, his inability to draw anyone under 45 years old, his repeated inappropriate touching, and his worsening dementia should be enough.
But he won’t drop out before the DNC has decided who will be his replacement. Cuomo is lightly being floated via his recent media attention, and when that won’t fly, they will try someone else. But the person who can actually beat Trump won’t be considered because it threatens the class interests of the party and it’s corporate donor base.
It’s unfathomable that Biden is still even running. It’s likely that he doesn’t know he’s running most of the time. And no – this is not an exaggeration. It’s actually cruel that they still throw him in front of a camera occasionally.
@gorillapaws there is no other viable candidate. I would bite my tongue, but I would vote for Trump before I could vote for Sanders.
Trump still ran even though he admitted that he grabs ‘em by the pussy, so why should Joe drop out?
@jca2 “Trump still ran even though he admitted that he grabs ‘em by the pussy, so why should Joe drop out?”
Because Biden’s former staffer is accusing him of pinning her against a wall digitally penetrating her against her will then firing her? Many would call that rape? Oh and she says he told her: “You’re nothing to me, you’re nothing.”
@jca2: “Trump still ran even though he admitted that he grabs ‘em by the pussy, so why should Joe drop out?”
I was under the impression that this fact about Trump was indicative of his immoral voter base. What are you saying about Democratic voters? Are they no longer concerned with such things?
Has it been proven? You can’t assume that a person is guilty of something just because somebody says they did it. And who says any politician has to be so pure, so chaste, to be totally without sin?
@kritiper The verifiable facts do support her story. Of course there’s no camera footage of him assaulting her. Biden did say that we should always believe the women.
More than three years, and I am still waiting for SOMEONE to show proof that Trump ever claimed to grab anyone by the pussy.
Someone, anyone? Newspaper hearsay does not count.
@gorillapaws “always believe the woman” is a feel-good statement that’s actually troubling (because it allows for accusations to be the only “evidence” required). People who say it should know it may one day bite them in the ass.
I’m finding it interesting that it seems to be mostly those who have seemed to be Bernie or Bust are the ones touting this. Hope I’m wrong.
@AlaskaTundrea Likewise I find it interesting that there is a media blackout on this story. Does anyone for a second believe that if a former female staffer had accused Bernie of the same thing, it wouldn’t be all over the news? Search CNN for “Tara Reade” and you’ll find 0 hits. Isn’t that odd?
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@Patty_Melt *“More than three years, and I am still waiting for SOMEONE to show proof that Trump ever claimed to grab anyone by the pussy.
Someone, anyone? Newspaper hearsay does not count.”*
So an audio recording of him making the statement is hearsay? Alrighty…
Show me one. There aren’t any. If you have seen one, by all means, share with the class.
If you can find one I will vote for Ronald McDonald.
Your links are useless. One shows a picture of President Trump stepping off a bus. The other one jumps me out of fluther.
Shall I post a picture of Biden getting out of a car, and claim it is proof he murdered a little girl and stashed her in the trunk?
A photo and a headline prove exactly nothing.
@Zaku your links work. All the evidence is there.
@Patty_Melt: The audio recording is better than a newspaper article with an accusation, to me.
Billy Bush, who was with Trump at the time, got fired from his job over it.
Surely you have heard audio recordings of this in the past?
Uncensored Hollywood Access tape
I would still vote for Biden over Trump. If it is just one incident from 30 years ago then I can ignore it. I still prefer Sanders, but either Sanders or Biden would be a much better choice for president than Trump.
I don’t know if Biden did any of this or not. What I do know is back when that Alabama politician was running who from all we could tell sexually assaulted children Democrats were up in arms about it. It was justified to be up in arms about it, in my opinion he should have been in jail.
At the time, when Democrats were asking how can anyone vote for that man, I said, “if he will push policies the voter wants pushed the voter will vote for him.” There was a holier than thou attitude that morally no one should vote for that pedophile, but if the other choice is a baby murdering pro choice supporter, then what is the pro-life voter to do?
Even if there is tons of proof Biden assaulted women (I have no idea what proof there is) if he gets the nomination and people believe Trump will ruin the country, they will vote for Biden.
Should is probably irrelevant. Certainly his opposition will insist on it. The question is “can he be forced to quit?” To which I say “fat chance!”
I guess “creepy Joe” is fitting. At this point unless Trump is not physically able anymore we’ll have him in the oval office again. It’s basically over already.
Over? With the orange turd being too dim witted and unemphatic to handle this virus? Who in their right mind would vote for this reality TV show host again?
Donny Trump wants the chance to tell Joe “You’re fired!”
An accusation is just that. An accusation. There has been no proof, no trial etc.
@Patty_Melt
If you want to flat-out ignore evidence presented that’s your choice. But you cannot claim there is no evidence simply because you refuse to view it.
I see the Bernie dead-ender is looking for another Trump win to defeat the real enemy – Democrats.
The Federal courts are getting stocked with young Trump appointees who will be ruling our lives for decades. Big win for progressives!!
@chyna Right, but in the #MeToo era, that’s as far as you need to go. Asking for proof and questioning the accuser’s credibility is anti-woman. Unless of course they’re making accusations against someone you support. Then all bets are off.
Your links are useless. One shows a picture of President Trump stepping off a bus. The other one jumps me out of fluther.
Wow. It was on video and widely broadcast. That is an amazing feat of burying your head in the sand.
Everyone has seen him speak of grabbing by the pussy but where is the evidence he has actually done so? IMO that conversation was about Trump trying to impress the other person because he is insecure not him being a prolific pussy-grabber.
What do you mean by “Jumps me out of Fluther”? The video is there.
In Pattys defense, he/she may be arguing that Trump is saying something to the effect of: when you’re rich and famous they’ll let you do do anything to them, including grabbing them by the pussy.
I can’t argue against people who think he may have done something like that, but Patty is saying there is no admission of this pussy grabbing act.
^ It’s a crass statement and it’s damning if someone has accused him of doing so but it is not exactly a confession.
Yeah none of those several women’s accusation against trump is true. NONE.
”It’s a crass statement and it’s damning if someone has accused him of doing so but it is not exactly a confession.”
@Demosthenes Oh dear, so if it’s not a confession, does this mean @Darth_Algar, @Jonsblond, @jca2, @Call_Me_Jay were the ones with their “head in the sand?”
@gorillapaws I was once accused of a transgression at a place I worked at. All indications pointed to me being the guilty party. But I was innocent.
Everyone, repeat EVERYONE should be considered innocent until PROVEN guilty.
I have the same response to this as I do to all these cases: let it play out. Right now you have an accusation. I absolutely do not believe in guilty until proven innocent. HOWEVER, I do believe that an investigation should be conducted. And that is the rub. The Dems absolutely refuse to honestly investigate any Democrat elite. Biden bragged about doing exactly what the Dems impeached Trump for, and yet the Dems have fought against every effort to investigate that case. There were several outstanding claims of sexual assault and even rape against Bill Clinton and claims that Hillary threatened the claimants, and the Dems refuse to look at those. The left tried making a huge deal about Trump flying on Jeffrey Epstein’s plane one time, and yet they entirely avoid the facts that Bill Clinton was a frequent flier on that same plane as well as a frequent guest on his private island.
Should Biden step down? Not just for an accusation. If he truly believes he is innocent of this claim, stepping down is entirely wrong. But investigate it? Sure….do the investigation.
Wait WAIT WAIT the GOP refuses to investigate Trump’s . . . . ! HA-HA @seawulf575 what you want is:
1)GOP is always right
2) when doubt look at #1 !
The left tried making a huge deal about Trump flying on Jeffrey Epstein’s plane one time, and yet they entirely avoid the facts that Bill Clinton was a frequent flier on that same plane as well as a frequent guest on his private island
It’s well known that Trump and Clinton were both guests of Epstein. Nobody worth listening to denies that.
Epstein invited everyone, I assume to provide cover. Prince Andrew was certainly molesting teenagers with Epstein, but his ex Fergie and their daughters were also visitors. I doubt even your lunatic “news” sources are accusing them.
@jca2 I think what @seawulf575 said was that Biden bragged about doing exactly what the Dems impeached Trump for, and yet the Dems have fought against every effort to investigate that case.
https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe-biden-forced-ukraine-to-fire-prosecutor-for-aid-money/C1C51BB8-3988-4070-869F-CAD3CA0E81D8.html
Joe Biden tells Ukraine, at the height of a Russian invasion, that they weren’t getting a billion dollars from the U.S. if they didn’t fire the prosecutor who was investigating Hunter Biden. They had six hours to decide, Well, Son of a Bitch! The prosecutor was fired,
He got away with it.
Even if you think its okay for Joe Biden to do this, and a mere accusation against a sitting president is grounds for impeachment, you should at least admit it’s pretty dim-witted to brag about it in front of a live entertainment audience while being recorded
^^BS take on Biden’s reproachment of that CORRUPT pro-Putin prosecutor.
Of course that’s how one would look at that situation if you’re a trump fanatic.
@mazingerz88 Think about all the claims against Trump concerning Ukraine. That he did the quid pro quo. That he withheld aid. That he did it for personal gain. Now, look at what Biden brags about doing. A quid pro quo. He threatened to withhold aid (which according to the Dems with Trump, that isn’t allowed) and told the Ukrainians that Obama was on board with that decision. Aid that was promised by our government and approved through Congress…another thing the Dems tried to use against Trump. There is much conjecture and allegation that he did it to help Hunter. And with all that, the Dems fight against even wanting to investigate. You are showing that last statement to be true…you are making excuses for him doing exactly what Trump was impeached for. You make my case perfectly.
@jca2 No, I never said anything like that. I said he was impeached for the exact thing Biden bragged about. And the Dems want to impeach a sitting president for these claims yet want to ignore it when it is a Democrat bragging about it.
@Patty_Melt I’m sorry you had trouble viewing the video. It might be a codec issue. There are endless copies of it posted on the internet.
Just search for:
Billy Bush Trump
And you will find not only endless copies of the video and articles about it, but also that both Billy Bush AND Trump confirm that it is an actual recording of what Trump said.
As for Biden, please do share whatever factual dirt you have on him. I’m no fan of Biden, even if I would somewhat prefer he be the corporate pawn POTUS to Trump.
@zaku is correct. trump acknowledges saying it and called it “locker room talk.” I have 3 brothers and asked them if they talked like that around other men. All three said no.
@Call_Me_Jay You say both Trump and Clinton were guests of Epstein. But here’s the thing…I can’t find really any story of Trump going to his island. I’m not saying he never did, but I would think that at this point if he had it would have been played up like crazy. In the deposition of Virginia Giuffre against Ghislane Maxwell, she did say she saw Trump on the airplane in 1997 on a flight from FL to Newark NJ. She also specifically says she did not see him having sex with anyone on that flight. Trump, himself, did say he flew on Epstein’s jet one time from FL to NJ because he needed to get to NYC in a hurry and Epstein offered.
So maybe I’m not digging deeply enough, but I am dredging through everything I can and just can’t connect Trump to the island or even multiple flights on the airplane.
So when you make statements that nobody worth listening to denies the ties, you might want to re-think who you are listening to. Because other than allegations and innuendo, I can’t find anything to show the proof of the claim.
@mazingerz88 The prosecutor was investigating Burisma Holdings, which Hunter Biden was a board member, making somewhere between $57,000 and $130,000 per month, with no experience, expertise, language, or attendance requirements. Joe Biden made sure the investigator was fired or they weren’t getting the billion dollars.
As for your assertion that the prosecutor was pro-Putin, actually it was a Ukraine prosecutor which Joe Biden strong-armed the Ukraine government to fire, Or, they weren’t getting the billion dollars in dire military aid to defend themselves against Russia
The idea that a Ukraine prosecutor was pro-Russian makes no sense.
Sigh. As a rape survivor some of you are confirming why people didn’t believe me when I told them and why I never told anyone about my second rape.
@Jonsblond I’m not suggesting we don’t take the allegation seriously. I’m just suggesting we don’t assume guilt until proven innocent as our way of life. There is a huge difference.
My stance is the same as always – let the relevant authorities thoroughly investigate.
@Jonsblond There is a difference between a real victim of one or multiple sexual assaults, who deserves to be believed, as I and others believe YOU are—- and someone alleging rape in order to destroy someone politically or legally, destroying someone’s personal life or career or legal record.
Its a judgement call, and evidence does not need to be tangible, but investigations are needed where they matter.
You know what pisses me off? We had days of news coverage about Bernie Sanders supposedly saying a woman can’t be president. People here stood up for Elizabeth Warren and cried about misogyny and said they believed her. The question was brought up in a debate. Now a rape accusation is made about Biden and there is zero news coverage and Biden refuses to debate Bernie again.
We still have half of our country who hasn’t voted.
If you can’t see what is wrong with this your head is buried in the sand.
@Jonsblond Welcome to the frustration of the right! The liberal media hides stories when it hurts the Dems or the liberal agenda. Remember Ukraine? Remember Trump getting impeached for supposedly threatening to withhold aid in return for a favor? Remember when Biden bragged about doing that exact thing when he was VP? Remember how the media and the left squelched that, trying to down play it and hide its significance? How much different would things have been if there had been fairness in the media? How much different if our politicians were people of substance instead of marionettes? You are 100% correct…the reporting is neither equal nor fair. The liberal media is feeding the people the opinions and the talking points they want people to have. It’s called propaganda.
^Bernie supporters are treated like Trump supporters. I see it. If I say this publicly I’ll be accused of being swayed by Russians.
@seawulf575 “The liberal media…”
It a neoliberal bias. There’s a huge difference.
Honestly, the presidential election, or any election for that matter, is the last thing I’m worried about or even thinking about. Working in a hospital and watching news coverage of the virus takes up most of my worries and thoughts every day.
I think in general, the whole issue of the election has taken a back seat to the virus. I see nothing about the elections at all on the news, except that in some cases they will be postponed. I see 100% of the nightly news being given to the virus, except when they spend a few minutes on the weather. It’s all the death toll, the economy as it relates to the virus, how to handle being quarantined, etc.
@Jonsblond Yep, you probably will. But let me ask…the people that would accuse you of being swayed by the Russians…do you really care what they think? They obviously don’t care what YOU think and are so mean-spirited their first effort is to try shaming you into shutting up. See, I see that tactic for the low-talent, radical leftist move it is. It tells the world more about those accusing me of things like that than what it tells the world about me.
@gorillapaws Call it what you will, there are still many, especially on these pages, that cannot bear to call the media on their bias. They get down right nasty when you try asking them to even consider the idea that they are being lied to.
What’s your solution to all this liberal bias and leftist dishonesty? And how do you explain this predilection for everyone emerging from a school of journalism to embrace this corrupt liberal mindset. Why should the corporate press tolerate, let alone advocate a leftist SOCIALIST agenda?
@stanleybmanly My solution is simple…everyone first has to be willing to admit there is the bias and then to call them on it. Stop supporting the lies and the skewed reporting. It’s only a game if you play. As for how they all emerge from a school of journalism to embrace the liberal mindset? That’s an easy one…the universities are bastions of narrow-minded liberalism. There have been numerous examples of that shown over the years. They don’t like conservative ideas even being mentioned on campus, much less being taught. They teach that it is evil and any action to silence it is worthy. So these kids get inundated with these ideas for 4 years…indoctrinated into that mindset. And then these poor kids that come out of these schools go into a job where honesty is neither wanted nor rewarded, but skewed propaganda is. Are you really going to try telling me that universities aren’t pushing the liberal agenda? As for why the corporate press would tolerate this behavior and advocate a socialist agenda, it is equally transparent. In every socialist regime, it basically comes down to two castes…the elite and everyone else. And the elite need their propagandists to tell only the story they want the plebes to hear. So those in charge of the press gain immense power. Want a perfect example? How about Paul Joseph Goebbels? He was very high on the food chain in Nazi Germany. That is what you get when you suppress any opposing ideals and use the “free press” to support only one side. So as the head of a major “news” outlet, why wouldn’t you push for this? Want some more support for this zany idea? Okay, ever stop to think about who the biggest donors to the DNC and its PACs are? It’s the major “news” agencies…NYT, WaPo, CNN, MSNBC, et al. They give quite a bit of money and unreportable support only to the Dems. So why would they support only one party to that extent? Because they know if they can push the liberal and socialist agenda, it gives them much more power. And all of this supports why they hate Trump so much. He side-stepped them entirely, went right to the people, called them on their lies and half-truths, and ended up getting himself elected POTUS, against all their plans.
I personally would love to see a news outlet didn’t skew the real facts to one side or the other. Leave that for the editorial or opinion section of the news which used to be a minor part of newspapers and broadcasts but has since become the basic tenet of all reporting.
I don’t get how you can claim that the DNC and the mainstream media are supporting socialism when Bernie is an actual fucking socialist and they’ve been against him from day one. If they really wanted socialism, why not support the socialist candidate? They support the corporatist candidate instead. I wonder why…
Because Bernie is the avowed Socialist, he is a horrible choice for the Dem candidate. It isn’t that they aren’t pushing the socialist agenda, they just don’t want the common folks to realize it. They can do far better pushing socialism and calling it “good policies for the people” than to come right out and say “socialism”. But look at all the Dem candidates that were vying for the nomination. Just about every one of them fully supported the Green New Deal, which is rife with socialistic items. They all supported some version of free education and free healthcare both of which are cornerstones of Socialism. They all pretty much pushed support for unions…another touchstone for socialism. Pretty much they all were campaigning on socialism…but only Bernie was honest enough to say it.
But picture it…let’s assume for a moment that Bernie got the nomination. Here he is, an avowed Socialist. What do you think the campaign against him would look like? He and his policies would be compared to Hugo Chavez or Vladimir Lenin or Karl Marx and scenes from the food riots in Venezuela and other examples of the failures of socialism would come out in force. The obvious story there is that if you elect Bernie, that is what he has planned for your future. And the media wouldn’t have much of a story to spin because it would be difficult to say Socialism is a great thing, as often as it has led to failure. But let’s back it up a moment and say someone else got the nomination. It isn’t that their policies would be any significantly different than Bernie’s, but they would claim to be “Democrats”. Their campaign would be more about how horrible Republicans are and how much they hate everyone. And the media would have something to work with.
That is a very interesting interpretation of what passes for reality. Do you have any historical or current examples of preferable conservative societies which spurn the taints of socialism?
Sure. Look at the USA. It didn’t become great because politicians said they wanted to give everyone everything. It became great because it encouraged people to grow and expand. It didn’t want the federal government to own everything, it wanted people to create commerce…and it stayed out of their way. The founding fathers set the groundwork and it has lasted for almost 250 years. The only real challenge to it is from socialists.
That’s your sole example? And all of it achieved without socialism? Might there be reasons other than socialism why government must grow ever more intrusive in our lives? What’s changed since the idyllic days of our founding fathers? And where are all the other conservative societies for you to idolize?
To start, I would hope that anybody who believes in “pull yourselves up by the bootstraps” and is anti-socialist, has never applied for WIC, public assistance, food stamps, unemployment or disability of any type.
@jca2 I believe in “pull yourselves up by the bootstraps” and have never applied for any of those things. But I also believe in charity. I help others when I can. I believe that many people need help sometimes. I believe in a hand up but not a hand out. Assistance should be temporary in nature and not a way of life. Unfortunately the system is something of a pitcher plant…easy to get into, but almost impossible to get out of.
Assistance should be temporary in nature and not a way of life.
Agreed. I don’t think most people who’ve made it a way of life intended to do that, but as you said, it can be very difficult to get out of.
Unfortunately our idea of a “hand up” is dropping someone a 10 ft ladder when they’re in a 20 ft hole and telling them to jump the rest of the way.
What SHOULD be the function of government in a society?
@Demosthenes I agree. I once dated a girl that was getting all sorts of assistance. She had section 8 housing, medical, dental, welfare, food stamps, and she was getting free college. She decided she wanted to get a job and take care of herself. She had a son that had really bad asthma, so she wanted to keep medical for him until she could get a job that gave her benefits to cover him. She was told it was all or nothing. She could either give up everything including medical or she would have to keep everything. There was no middle ground. I thought that was about the silliest thing I had ever heard.
@stanleybmanly which level of government? Federal? State? Local? I think they all have different roles.
Your girlfriend with the asthmatic son—which government is the kid to rely on when his mother is incapable or unwilling? Sure the governments divide up the jobs, but all of them are supposedly performing the same overall BIG role. It appears that all 3 have failed your girlfriend. How about the kid?
@seawulf575: If your friend worked, she would not be eligible for anything (including medical), or if she didn’t work, she would be eligible for everything. When she took the job, it disqualified her for the medical because, I’m guessing, she made too much to qualify.
@jca2 No, it didn’t disqualify her because she made too much, it disqualified her because she had a job. It could have been flipping burgers part time and she would no longer be eligible for the medical. That was what they were telling her. It was designed as an all or nothing. And that is where I talk about a hand up and not a hand out. It would have cost the tax payers far less if they let her keep the medical for a time, until she got benefits that kicked in and could cover it, rather than forcing her to take all or nothing. It would have been a hand up instead of pushing a hand out. AND she would have been working and helping pay taxes.
Having worked in that field, my guess (just from hearing your details) is that the threshold for income was so low that even what was probably a minimum wage job put her above the income threshold to receive benefits. So what, to someone on the outside who doesn’t know, thinks is just because she got a job is really because anything more than the lowest amount of income makes someone disqualified.
Actually, at the time (and we go back a few years), any job was considered income and would disqualify you for assistance. The amount didn’t matter…the employment did.
I don’t believe people have a clue as to how large is the percentage of people in this country who require some form of government assistance or subsidy to get by. And that percentage is almost certainly on the way up along with the numbers immersed in the underground economy.
@seawulf575 Have you ever used a public library? Used the internet (obviously yes)? Attended public school? Hired someone educated by the public school system? Used 911? Driven on a road other than a private driveway? Used the court system? Used national weather data? Called the fire department? Benefitted from medicine that’s been verified as safe and effective through the FDA? Taken a medication that was developed by public university research? Drank water from a public water source? enjoyed a national park? flown in the skies safely from national air traffic control and engineering/maintenance standards set forth by the FAA? Used Medicare or Social Security? Benefitted from the peace of mind of your money being insured by the FDIC? Felt secure in any stock/bond purchases due to the regulations of the SEC? Benefitted from having safe food standards at restaurants and in the grocery store?
Lie to yourself all you want, but all of us benefit from “Socialism.” The USA is a MIXED economy. As we’ve slashed New Deal policies under the lie of “small government” and “trickle-down” economics, our middle class has eroded, and the 0.01% have reaped most of the benefits. We’re on the brink of a depression and it’s going to be amplified by decades of neoliberal and neoconservative policy.
As much as you want to demonize Sanders, let’s put things in perspective: his tax policy proposal has only 2% more than Regan’s top marginal rate AFTER his first rate cut. Nixon created the EPA, and under Eisenhower the top marginal rate was 90% (both Republicans). The modern superpower of the USA was built on progressive taxation and investment in the people. Tax cuts and slashing social programs may lead to a short term bump, but it’s like a company buying back its own stock to jack up the share price at the expense of investing in R&D. The benefits are short lived and the long-term consequences are crippling.
But to bring this back to Biden, he has been a major player in pushing the Democratic Party to the right. Just watch: Trump will run to his LEFT (just like he did to Hillary)—and he’ll win. Biden is a senile version of Hillary with a worse voting record, a history of corruption and now a credible accusation of sexual assault. Biden is WAY behind Hillary’s enthusiasm polls at the same point in the race. Trump also has the advantage of being an incumbent. Centrist Democrats are going to blame Sanders again instead of realizing that they’ve once again pushed aside the one Democrat who can kick Trump’s ass.
Maybe we’ll get lucky and Biden will stroke out of the race or come down with COVID-19. As much as I hate to wish harm on others, I think him being forced out of the race would be the best thing for the country (and the planet), since he doesn’t have enough integrity to otherwise drop out.
^^Why did it suddenly occur to me that Biden might pick Hillary as VP after reading your post?
Hillary would be more likely to win than Joe Biden
Remember? She beat Trump in the last election,
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