If you voted for Dr. Jill Stein in 2016, do you feel at all responsible for the wreckage Trump has brought?

GQ.

They’ll say “No” and promptly blame something else

No, since that was objectively on those who voted for Clinton in the primary, as well as that rancid Democratic party.

@Dutchess_lll You were just proved correct.

Hate to bring reality and facts into this discussion. But you should have learned something about 2016 a long time ago. This is not opinion.

Let me ask you this – if you voted for Clinton in the 2016 primary, despite the evidence that she would have a difficult time against Trump compared to Sanders, do you feel at all responsible for the reckage that Trump has brought?

It really didn’t matter if Sanders had done better in 2015. Sanders was the more popular of the two, and it was stolen from him by the DNC who endorsed Hillary.

@Yellowdog If Sanders was more popular, he would have gotten more votes.
Clinton was more popular than Trump, and got 3 million more votes. Unfortunately, Trump had more votes in select states.

The only people responsible for a Trump presidency is those who voted for Trump.

Vote shaming is disgusting.

@Jonsblond. You just vote shamed, then said vote shaming is disgusting.

How did I vote shame? I didn’t say the people who voted for Trump were wrong. I only stated a fact.

Ffs, I can’t do another 4 years of this bs.

@filmfann – In all seriousness – are you ok? You seem to be combining a low-information approach to American politics with an arrogance and anger that seems somehow related to this year’s election. One might think you’d have evaluated this enough since 2016 so that you wouldn’t make the same mistake. But here we are.

Listen, this is your party. Biden is your rapist canidate. If you want us non-Democrats to vote for this guy, you’d better start selling. Bringing up complete horshit and mythology that is popular among older right-wing Dems isn’t going to do it.

Remember, your party is one that is always talking about reaching out and appealing to suburban Republicans (that never happens, but they give lipservice to the idea). Maybe you could be the guy that doesn’t wake up and decide to punch left. Maybe you could be the guy to convince me to vote for Biden even though he is ideologically opposed to everything I have valued for the past 30 years. Maybe I can be convinced to vote for a rapist.

I’m not a Democrat. Not a liberal. Do our votes matter to your party, or are you just interested in right-wing Dem primary voters and mythical Republican suburbinites?

Convince me. Or – if you don’t need the left, why not just keep feeling self-satisfied that you’re doing the right thing, and then you can blame us again in November when Trump wins.

She didn’t have a difficult time against him. She kicked.his ass easily, up and down the line.

@filmfann If centrist Dems had voted for Sanders in the primary (either time) then Trump wouldn’t have won. Trump admits he feared running against Sanders the most btw. Likewise if all Clinton voters had voted for Stein then we wouldn’t have Trump. See how that works?

I’m not a Democrat anymore. You guys moved so far to the right that you left me behind. Bernie was the 1 chance you had to bring progressives back into the fold and you guys blew it. Good luck in November with that senile piece of shit.

My goal at this point is to try to support the viability of a 3rd party. If the Green party gets 5% of the vote it will qualify for Federal funding. That’s a much more achievable goal than trying to get Biden elected. Better spend less time wagging your finger at the left and more time trying to pick off moderate Republicans! Time’s wasting!

The Stein voter wouldn’t admit to doing so, and would plead innocence anyway.

So MANY people who never voted before were willing to back Sanders.

^That is exactly why you can’t blame Sanders supporters who went to Stein, and why you can’t blame them for sitting out this time or writing his name in. Many were never Democrats to begin with. To assume they would vote for Hillary instead is ignorant.

My husband has never voted. He has no party affiliation. He would have voted for Bernie. Now it’ll be another year of him not voting.

Every non voter, every 3rd party voter, every independent voter was a vote for trump. And it looks like we’re going to repeat the stupidity.

I didn’t vote in the 2016 general. At the time I was living in California and I knew that California would go for Hillary so it didn’t really matter whom I voted for. But although I’m not a “Trump supporter” I’m not as opposed to Trump as many others, so it’s not as big of a deal to me.

@Dutchess_lll: “Every non voter, every 3rd party voter, every independent voter was a vote for trump.”

Let’s try this yet again…

Let’s say Trump has 10 votes, Biden has 10 votes, and Hawkins has 1 vote. Now let’s say that I vote for Hawkins. Can you guess what the vote count is now? Take your time. Get a scrap piece of paper if you need it. Answer below.

ANSWER…
Trump: 10
Biden: 10
Hawkins: 2

What you’re seeing here is that a vote for Hawkins was a vote for Hawkins. I know this stuff can get tricky, but if you stick with it I know you can do it!

Bonus question: Let’s say Trump has 10 votes, Biden has 10 votes, and Hawkins has 1 vote. Now let’s say that I don’t vote. Can you can guess what the vote count is now? Answer below.

ANSWER…
Trump: 10
Biden: 10
Hawkins: 1

What you’re seeing here is that not voting doesn’t actually increase the vote count for any candidate. See?

@hmmmmmm, So trump has 10, Biden has 10…but magically you managed to give Hawkins 2 votes? Please do explain.

Can’t say I didn’t try. Someone? Anyone? yikes.

There is no way for you to excuse your way out of your culpability if trump wins this election. You are wanting to decieve yourself with smoke and mirrors.
Face reality dude.
Reality. one vote doesn’t magically turn into two.

@Dutchess_lll: “one vote doesn’t magically turn into two.”

This should help.

@Dutchess I know you aren’t stupid so I don’t understand why you don’t get it. You are assuming every non vote would automatically go to the Democrats. This is where you are wrong. Quit with the vote shaming.

What I am saying is this is a binary election. Either Trump wins, or he loses.
If you don’t vote, or if you vote for an unrealistic third choice, you are not helping to defeat him. He’s counting on your lack of support for his rival.

@filmfann You thought that shaming others would win support?

@filmfann “an unrealistic third choice”

Who decides what’s “realistic?”

I can’t think of a less “realistic” choice against Trump than Biden. His brain is degenerating. If he wasn’t a sexual predator, I’d actually feel sorry for him. I know the media and Joe’s campaign has done a hell-of-a-job sheltering him from exposure and difficult questions, but I can assure you that Trump will not be so kind. It’ll be like putting a blind, crippled mouse into the snake den.

“What I am saying is this is a binary election.”

If enough of us vote 3rd party it won’t be binary, will it? I think you underestimate the rage against the DNC, as well as grossly overestimate Biden’s chances.

@filmfann: “What I am saying is this is a binary election. Either Trump wins, or he loses.”

Well, it’s not. But let’s play out your binary math for a minute.

If (A) is true, then (B) is also true:

(A) either Trump wins or he loses
(B) either Biden wins or he loses

You’re claiming that a vote for 3rd party/no vote = a vote for Trump. Then you are also saying that a vote for a 3rd party/no vote = a vote for Biden.

So, don’t pretend to be playing some kind of logic game that only the adults in the room are able to understand.

If the Democrats or Republicans want to appeal to me, who is neither a Democrat or a Republican, then they have their work cut out for them. If the Democratic party has actively crushed the hopes of generations in killing everything I hold to be important, then they really have their work cut out for them.

But don’t insult my intelligence – and yours – by pretending to play binary logic games.

That is like blaming the various resistance movements in WW2 for causing the Nazis to lose the war.
While, sure, their activities drew various Axis resources against them, that could have been used in the war proper, the reality is that the Nazis would have lost the war regardless.

Also, people on the right could make the very same argument, with the same level of validity. That a vote for someone else or a non-vote, is a vote for Bidet Biden.
They can not both be right, but they can surely both be wrong.