Did we waste $35M on the Mueller investigation?

No, it wasn’t a waste. It has exposed how corrupt the Trump Administration and Mitch McConnell have been.

William Barr, by dropping the charges that Flynn pled guilty to twice has allowed a traitor to go free.

The Department oif Justice no longer represents Equal Justice Under The Law.

What @zenvelo said, plus Mueller said his report DID NOT exonerate Trump he just couldn’t prosecute at the time, and there was collusion from Russia with the election.

On second thought it was not a waste as it exposed the corruption at FBI, CIA,DOJ and the Obama administration.
Give ‘em enough rope & they hang themselves,

@SQUEEKY2 No, the report did not say there was collusion. It specifically said there was not. It said it determined Russia attempted to interfere with our election, but that no Americans were in on that effort and, indeed, were not aware of it. Since there were no Americans involved, there cannot be collusion. In fact, there was nothing to even charge Trump with. What Mueller said was that the charge of obstruction of justice was really not very strong and it was up to the AG to determine if there was any charges to be sought. That’s a weeny way of saying he had nothing.

Had not a single indictment or conviction arose from the Mueller investigation the effort was worth 10 times the expense in establishing DEFINITIVELY that Russia manipulated the 2016 election in favor of the fool. Moreover, the consensus of the report states that the effort continues as the report is released. These facts being beyond dispute, the question then arises WHY? And as far as I’m concerned, a reasonable answer to THAT question is worth more than all the money spent thus far establishing the truth of it. Rather than vindicating Flynn through the dismissal of the charges against him, Barr’s blatantly corrupt and shameful evisceration of DOJ integrity has left the department in the position of a feckless and ineffective joke on par with the fool Barr has twisted it to serve. The department has been demoralized in excess of the already crippling and unprecedented degradation of the executive branch in general, with mass resignations and the destruction of any competence previously attained. The strident disgust with the idiot and his ham fisted attorney general has resulted in the mass flight of any and all of repute, and reduced the formerly respected Barr to levels of strident ridicule formerly reserved for the dummy.

@stanleybmanly but wasn’t it you that always touted all the indictments? They are falling apart as we speak. So really it didn’t accomplish a thing. And the report stated that Russia attempted to interfere in the election but could not determine to what extent that was effective, if at all. So it really tells us nothing but wimpy words. As for Barr, I would look at it as the DoJ undoing an injustice. It is becoming painfully clear that they coerced Flynn’s confessions. Pretty much all the big names stated that there was nothing on Flynn. Until the FBI twisted their authority and abused Flynn’s rights. You are partially right about the department being demoralized, but it isn’t because Flynn was not prosecuted. It’s because the reputation of the FBI has been dragged through the mud by those liberal acolytes that committed all the abuses of justice to push an agenda. Those good folks in the FBI recognize how bad their organization looks and recognize it is due to the actions of a few including those at the top that have seen no justice brought to them.

Well, were the indictments worth it? Could they have come about some other way? I think it was worth proving that Russia interfered with the election and I think the indictments should have happened. Clearly the main intent, to prove collusion between Trump and Russia and get Trump out of office, didn’t pan out, nor did the second major attempt to get Trump out of office, the impeachment. I am all for exposing corruption and illicit actions on the part of American politicians and foreign ones, but I am not for the blatantly political motives behind these investigations. The attempts to get Trump out of office since he was elected have all failed and likely he will be re-elected this fall. So maybe we can stop wasting time and money on this?

It was a waste of money because the extent of the damage is undetermined? That’s like claiming bank robbery is legal if the bank can’t prove how much was stolen. You cannot possibly be so obtuse as to believe anything so preposterous. The bottom line is that the fool in his idiocy is effectively reducing the executive branch and particularly the Department of Justice to moronic levels of incompetence and corrupt ineptitude equivalent to his own.

There is nothing on Flynn.

It will be found that there was nothing on Paul Manafort and Roger Stone

There was nothing on Trump,.

There are mountains of evidence as to how these individuals were set up, in writing, even handwritten notes.

Its now time for people to start being prosecuted. Probably Peter Strzok first, eventually James Comey, who has bragged and mocked openly on his book tours and talk shows about what he thinks he has gotten away with.

No .
Enough time has gone by for anyone to cover up that trail now.

But by exposing this to the general public it shines a light on those that are corrupt enough even in high places.
Collusion by Luke Harding (2017)

Exposes enough of that corruption in all levels of Government and Trumps secret meetings,dirty money and others whom assisted him.

Its an eye opener and teaches the general public to be aware not every Politician or other is squeaky clean by any means.

@Demosthenes I take issue with that interpretation of the facts. Trump is the greatest lesson you will ever see on the rotting away of competence and integrity in government, not to mention the repelling of intellectual acuity that accompanies installation of a morally defective systemically corrupt dumb bell.

I take issue with the question itself.
It implies that any investigation, that doesn’t result in conviction of all parties involved, is a waste…
That logic, is extremely flawed…

If anything, I learned that the POTUS, is given WAY too much power to hamper an investigation into a potential crime. Such information, should scare everyone. That doesn’t mean that this issue, is just a Trump issue. The very state of the US’s democracy, has been exposed…

Republicans, are always claiming that the government has too much power… Why this doesn’t seem to bother them, is beyond my compression…
(Of note, some Republicans, are actually upset about this.)

#staywoke

Well, of course, you have to take into account what the investigations actually turned up.

And, if it was nothing, then that doesn’t mean the president had power to fake and implement the mountains of evidence against it.

^With all due respect, Trump’s mountains, are typically mole hills…

@seawulf575, Trump and the people he surrounds himself with are not worth your loyalty. Save it for people who deserve it from you. You don’t owe them a defense for their mistakes. (Anyway they’re proving that they can weasel their way out of many consequences all on their own.)

I’m just glad that Republicans are now all cool with shitting on the FBI, CIA, NSA, The Troops, Cops, and the DOJ.

20 years ago when I was saying that shit I was told to to love it or leave it. But you got some tax cuts, some judges, no wall, and a one term president.

The world is my oyster now.

I only like the troops that didn’t run over an I.E.D in Iraq.. OMFG.. That feels so good.

@Demosthenes That was the best answer yet. Thanks.

@Soubresaut I think what you are missing is that I’m not asking the question out of loyalty to Trump since I really don’t have any. I’m pointing out how the political kabuki theater we paid for was just that…expensive entertainment at best. It is a condemnation of how our politicians waste money…our tax dollars…to get political gain. The whole purpose of the Mueller investigation was for one political party to malign the other. That’s it. Think it was for looking into crimes? I don’t. Too many of the people pushing the investigation came out before it started and publicly stated there was no collusion, that there was nothing there. And throughout the entire process the people (us) were divided more and more. How many people on these pages swore up and down that Trump was guilty as sin and was just moments away from being tossed into jail? How many looked at others that disagreed with their points of view and maligned them? And in the end, we wasted over $35M tax dollars to have a report that stated there was no collusion…that Russia tried some interference but that no Americans were involved. The investigation resulted in a whole lot of indictments that have fallen apart now that facts of how their “evidence” was obtained is coming out. But they were even falling apart before that. I think the only thing that came out of all this is that it showed that political opponents will go to any lengths to push their agendas. And if you didn’t know that before, you should have been paying more attention.

^Trump literally asked (publicly,) for Russians, to dig up dirt, on HC….

Case closed….......

Are you saying the government may have wasted taxpayer money?

@josie I know…silly of me. That almost always happens!

@MrGrimm888 Only in the minds of the left was that comment anything other than a joke.

Nope… I’m not on the left. I heard it, straight from Trump’s mouth…

Are we supposed to assume that everything negative, from his mouth, is a lie, but everything negative from the media, isn’t?
Even when it ALL comes straight from the Trump administration?

Where is the logic there?

@seawulf575—I really don’t think I’m missing anything at all. I know you always say that it’s just about the “facts” (alternative or otherwise) of the specific issue you’re asking about, but the discussion reliably becomes a defense of Trump against the evil Democrats launching a smear campaign so brilliant and so well coordinated across disparate groups that even Trump himself participates in it without his knowledge… Or in this specific situation, Trump’s vindication from that campaign (and if he put the person into the position claiming his vindication? Well that person’s just the only honest one in the lot. After all, that’s why Trump chose him. Obviously.)

Why there was an investigation? Probable cause. (And if you really don’t know that, please check your media diet.)

@Soubresaut The question has to do with waste due to political games. Sorry if you want to see that as a defense of Trump, but that isn’t the point of the question. As for the investigation? Probable cause? Okay, then let’s review the House Intelligence Community transcripts concerning the Russian investigation that were recently declassified and released. They interviewed many Obama top officials and asked them if they had or had seen evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign. Here are some of the answers:
James Clapper: ”“I never saw any direct empirical evidence that the Trump campaign or someone in it was plotting/conspiring with the Russians to meddle with the election. That’s not to say that there weren’t concerns about the evidence we were seeing, anecdotal evidence. ... But I do not recall any instance where I had direct evidence.””

Samantha Powers, US ambassador to the UN: ”“I am not in possession of anything—I am not in possession and didn’t read or absorb information that came from out of the intelligence community.””

Susan Rice, National Security Advisor: ”“To the best of my recollection, there wasn’t anything smoking, but there were some things that gave me pause. I don’t recall intelligence that I would consider evidence to that effect that I saw…conspiracy prior to my departure.””
When asked about evidence of coordination, she said: “I don’t recall any intelligence or evidence to that effect.”
When asked about collusion: _“Same answer”.

Ben Rhodes, Deputy National Security Advisor: “I wouldn’t have received any information on any criminal or counterintelligence investigations into what the Trump campaign was doing, so I would not have seen that information. I saw indications of potential coordination, but I did not see, you know, the specific evidence of the actions of the Trump campaign.”

Loretta Lynch, AG: Could not recall anything concerning collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign being briefed to her. When asked about evidence concerning collusion, conspiracy or coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign, she answered: “I can’t say that it existed or not.”

Andrew McCabe, former Deputy Director of the FBI: Was asked about the accuracy and legitimacy of the Steele Dossier. When asked what the most damning information or evidence from that dossier that he knows to be true, he responded: “We have not been able to prove the accuracy of all the information.” When the House investigator pressed and asked “You don’t know if it’s true or not?” McCabe answered “That’s correct.”

So from a probable cause viewpoint, after all this started, all the major players could not actually show any evidence whatsoever that there was any collusion. And that was before the Mueller investigation started. So where was the probably cause? There wasn’t any. Nothing. So the question remains, even more so now, with all the top Obama Administration players…the CIA, the UN ambassador, the NSA, the DNSA, the AG, the DDFBI…all stating they have nothing to show collusion or conspiracy or coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign and that the Steele Dossier had not been verified and was DNC/Hillary Clinton research opposition bought and paid for…why did we even proceed forward and waste $35M on the Mueller investigation? Especially that it now looks like most of the “fruits of his labor” turned out to be bogus?

Anyone else here wondering why the investigation costed $35 million, in the first place?

Perhaps that, is a more sensible question…

It seems to me, lawyers, are the ones fucking the American people…

That is miniscule compared to the number of lives, careers, reputations besmirched and destroyed. A lot of good people lost everything, including well-deserved careers and their life savings. How do these people get their good name, their lives, back? What about the division of the country and all the losses where we should have been focused on moving ahead?

Did you get your money’s worth?

^I would have to say, no.
But, I never feel like I get my money’s worth, when it comes to the government….

So there are better than 38 indictments and convictions, and Barr has seen to it that Flynn slipped the hook. To pretend that all of those other indictments are but a waste of time or declare that they’ve all fallen apart is more than premature. It is willful distortion of fact. Then there’s the foreboding fact that Mueller and the first impeachment are but the overture to the 30 plus investigations currently underway of Trump, his family and close associates for a smorgasbord of charges too extensive to list.

@MrGrimm888 That is a wonderful point as well.

@stanleybmanly you are not facing all the facts. There were 34 people and 3 Russian companies indicted out of the Mueller investigation. There were 7 convictions. 7. And none of the convictions were for anything to do with working with Russia to interfere in the election. You got Manafort for 10 year old tax evasion…nothing to do with Russia or Trump, you had Popadopoulos who lied about the timing of talking to a professor about Russia. He missed the date by a month or two. Again..no smoking guns here. You had Rick Gates who conspired with Manafort to hide the tax evasion. You had Michael Cohen who lied to Congress about the duration of Trump’s plan to build Trump Tower in Moscow. Again…nothing to do with collusion of any type. You had Alex van der Zwaan who lied about his contacts with Gates, but nothing about collusion with Russia. You had Richard Pinedo who was selling stolen identity information to Russians. And you have Michael Flynn who is now a free man and the charges were dropped. So he has to come off both the list of indictments and convictions.
The rest of the indictments are of Russians and Russian businesses. One of those, the Concord Catering company, sent lawyers to demand relevant evidence in the case. That is entirely in line with court procedure when a defendant is going to appear in court. Remember what happened in that? Mueller was caught with his pants down. He had to suddenly scramble to try delaying. The judge shot him down and Mueller had to eventually comply. He was attempting to violate their rights to a speedy trial. Eventually prosecutors requested to drop these charges. Oops. So there goes at least one of the companies and several of the Russian people since they were named in that same case. So you are not stating all the facts. Yes, he got indictments, but due to illegal and shady behavior by the FBI and his own team, several of them have fallen by the wayside. And it is likely that more will fall as well. So much of his work really was useless which makes me question if the $35M was money well spent. As for you attempt at deflection by going into other investigations, I’m not biting. Try your deflections somewhere else, with someone else.

We shall see.