How do you know your country is being honest with Covid19 numbers?

See I was told the States are not counting nursing home deaths that have covid19, and I know Canada at least is doing that.

I don’t know that they do know
Up until recently, they’ve merely used symptoms.
Last year, I believe 80,000 died in the US alone of influenza A & B and if one does not think those two strains are not running congruent, hand in the logic & reasoning card.

@lucillelucillelucille You are making up stuff.

it was 34,157 deaths in USA for 2018 – 2019 all form of flu according to CDC.

Medical personnel are not wild ass guessing what caused the 81,000 deaths from COVID-19 (only conspiracy theorists are saying “it is all a Democratic attempt to get control of the USA” )

Long term care account for over a third of the COVID-19 deaths!!

I do not.
But my trust in the honesty of published numbers is inversely proportional to the level of autocratism in any given country.

@Tropical_Willie -No, I am not making up stuff.
Here is one of many links stating these numbers from the CDC
Chart from the CDC
The graph is an estimated but the numbers proved out.

It’s hard to trust numbers on this. I have heard COVID deaths or COVID-related deaths are a little inflated here. Someone dies of a heart attack and tested positive for COVID…cause of death is COVID. They do this especially for medi-care patients

The vast swath of the United States COVID hospitalizations is rather low. New York is a different matter. It shows just how bad this thing can get. A huge state like Tennessee with around 250 deaths is completely dwarfed by New York with 26,000+ with most of them being in New York City alone. This is why COVID is so much worse than the regular seasonal flu.

@lucillelucillelucille your number was from 2017–2018; dates make a difference. That was the worst year in 40 years for the flu

@Tropical_Willie -Pish posh. My point is the same.
Those numbers are the normal yearly flu numbers.Did A & B somehow not kill anybody this year?
Remember, these are all estimates.

NOT NORMAL

80,000 was highest in over 40 years ! ! your article

CDC totals up the 2019–2020 Flu during May 2020, it is not the end of May.

The end of the COVID-19 is not in sight, there maybe a second wave (if Spanish Flu is any indicator there will be third).

@lucillelucillelucille—to what end are you comparing coronavirus to the flu? Is it to suggest that we need to take the annual flu more seriously as a society? Do more to ensure people understand vaccines are safe and effective? Do more to ensure people have access to healthcare, or better healthcare, so that they can receive treatment, or better treatment? Do more to ensure people have access to paid sick leave so they don’t have to spread viruses to coworkers in order to make ends meet?

@Tropical_Willie -My point is the same.
Where are the A & B numbers today?
Again, 80,000 in 2018, 71,900 in 1998 etc. If you can’t assume that Covid numbers aren’t alone or mixed with A & B deaths, which come through every year, then hand in that card.

Covid-19 presents very differently from the flu and the doctors are pretty sophisticated at this point about identifying it. I don’t understand why this has even become a talking point at this point in the game or why some need to minimize the danger. I really don’t get it.

@Soubresaut They both kill.
Do you somehow think that we no longer have A & B flu and we only now have Corona?

@lucillelucillelucille—yes, they both kill, and that sucks. What is your goal with that statement? Is it to move people to address the issues I mentioned above?

@Soubresaut -No. It’s healthy skepticism using reason and logic.

@lucillelucillelucille—I seem to be missing something. What is it skepticism of? You aren’t disputing the accuracy of current coronavirus numbers by comparing them to years where flu deaths spiked above the average. What point are you trying to make with the comparison?

@Soubresaut – That some of these current numbers must be associated with Influenza A & B.
It would be foolish to assume that all these numbers are Covid, let alone correct in any context.
Coincidentally, Dr. Birx, White House Corona Virus Response Coordinator, is quoted as saying “There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust”, as regarding their modeling and numbers.
Yesterday’s press conference sourced from The Washington Post

Because we (UK) have the second worst death rate (US#1)
We palpably have no reason to lie about that.

@ucme -We’ve got 251 deaths per million population in the US. England’s got 482 per million population
worldometers.info/coronavirus

@lucillelucillelucille Go on, rub it in! :D
I like Boris, he’s a good bloke, but he fucked this up big time throughout!

@ucme -So did Trump.
Sweden :)

The honesty of countries in disclosing accurate figures is rendered rather meaningless in my opinion for the simple fact that it’s obvious that to a very large extent there are too many crucial unknowns. We have accurate tallies of the dead and hospitalized, but not a clue in hell as to how many are infected. As a result, places that are deemed “hot spots” may just be places with superior public health systems geared to testing and therefore more capable in detecting the infected, while those places with sparse testing capabilities will be limited to the visibly ill or dead to gather statistics. The lesson of the meat packing plants illustrate the implications in this. Since there are currently plants forcibly closed due to upwards of 80% of the workforce testing positive, what is to be surmised concerning the actual contagion rate of the untested citizens in the rural communities surrounding those plants? The actual extent of this epidemic is to be revealed in our future, and I fear the country will pay dearly for its slapdash disjointed place to place approach in handling this disease. And no matter how disparate and lopsided the effects of the disease presently appear, you can bet that in the end the places that will be most devastated and suffer disproportionately in deaths will be exactly the underserved and scantly facilitated short end of the stick places which always take the hits.

Okay, I guess I thought you were trying to imply something with your statement. I’ve mostly heard from experts the opposite, that cases are likely being undercounted more than they are being overcounted. I doubt we’ll know for sure right now, as the data is still being compiled.

I found the article that the article you linked is citing: Link here

The discussion between Birx and Redfield is a small portion of the article. Your article seems to favor Birx’s assessment over others without a clear explanation why she’s the most credible.

Also part of the original WP article:
Birx said in a statement: “Mortality is slowly declining each day. To keep with this trend, it is essential that seniors and those with comorbidities shelter in place and that we continue to protect vulnerable communities.”

That assertion is contrary to Johns Hopkins data, which shows U.S. daily deaths hovering close to 2,000 most days for several weeks now, and climbing higher some days last week. Many experts also believe coronavirus deaths are actually being undercounted, with mortality data showing that U.S. deaths soared in the early weeks of pandemic, far beyond the number attributed to covid-19.

I don’t see anything in either article to explain why Birx felt the CDC estimates were possibly inflated. I did find this statement on the CDC website

It is important to note that it can take several weeks for death records to be submitted to National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), processed, coded, and tabulated. Therefore, the data shown on this page may be incomplete, and will likely not include all deaths that occurred during a given time period, especially for the more recent time periods. Death counts for earlier weeks are continually revised and may increase or decrease as new and updated death certificate data are received from the states by NCHS. COVID-19 death counts shown here may differ from other published sources, as data currently are lagged by an average of 1–2 weeks. So when the last sentence of your article cites death counts from a few days earlier, it was looking at some of the least accurate data on the CDC website’s count to support Birx’s position over John Hopkins’.

As for my response to the question: Experts are fairly unanimously telling us that covid-19 is deadlier than the flu, and that coronavirus is more contagious than the flu. I would expect current estimates to not be as precise as they could be at a later point once everything plays out and all the data is gathered together. I would also expect projections of future deaths to change as our response to the pandemic changes (the better we are at “flattening the curve” with our response, the fewer deaths there will be; the worse we are, the more). For now they are our best estimate of the situation.

Just had something on local TV that the NY state numbers maybe low. Not a couple hundred out the 27,000 but really low.

@Soubresaut -“Plain question and plain answer make the shortest road out of most perplexities” -Mark Twain

@lucillelucillelucille—Except for when coronavirus was very new and people didn’t know better, I haven’t really heard comparisons between coronavirus and the flu except in contexts where people are trying to argue that response to the coronavirus has been excessive and we should just go back to operations as normal (because after all it’s just the flu). So I suppose yes, I wasn’t sure whether it was a “plain answer” or not. I’m also not convinced that such comparisons are fair; they seem to be selective in the slices of information they choose to try and paint a version of events to match their desired conclusion, so I am glad you say you strive to be skeptical with the information you hear.

As a rule, I generally assume I am being lied to. Especially from the government.

Honestly, I only read bits of the above answers.
All numbers are being counted here, including the extended care cases. After reporting the totals, some will go on to break it down to ages, and other statistics, but all are parts of the total.

Here’s why US has such super hot hotspots. Not only do we have more people, we have exponentially more people involved with travel.More of us are coming into contact with each other, and with people around the world.
Border issues are also a big contributor. SMH That doesn’t mean I hate letting people come here, but being irresponsible about it has consequences.
Nurses are going weeks without kissing their kids. It isn’t a lack of love, it is working on the side of caution.
I think some deaths in one country might be called a heart attack whereas the same body would be listed as covid in another country, depending on how the doctor is looking at that case.

You guys can quibble all you want. When a pandemic breaks out in a population without immunity, curative treatment or a vaccine, the number of infections and deaths will be big. At some point, when it comes to those numbers, all you can say is “a whole lot”.

But since a politics has injected itself into an epidemiological problem, I am certain of something.

One group wants to inflate the numbers, another group wants to minimize them. And so you get a dog chasing it’s tail, as this thread sort of proves.

Until there is a vaccine, and or the virus runs it’s course and kills or immunizes it’s hosts, there is going to be bad news. You can hide for months, but eventually you will have to come out. And unless there is a vaccine, or you have immunity, you will probably get infected.
So the only issue is are you one of the many who have minimal symptoms, or not.

You ^^^FIRST!

Are you going to hide until there is a vaccine? What if it takes a year to get one. And what if it turns out like the flu “vaccine”. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t. Then you go hide again?
And hiding is one thing. Cursing those who don’t is another.

@josie
The universe does not revolve around you.

@ragingloli
That’s good information

There are pre-cautions to adhere to, to minimize the risk of getting infected that you seem to be scoffing at, like social distancing is a must, avoiding large crowds or gatherings is another,certain parts of the economy are going to have to stay closed until there is a vaccine, such as bars, night clubs, music concerts , sporting events, the cruise ship industry, anything that requires large groups be close together.
The rest while respecting social distancing should be able to start to reopen, as long as health professionals are in the drivers seat not politicians or people like you that want to throw everybody to the lions to see who gets eaten first.

@josie does not seem to understand that this is not a black and white issue. They learn more about it every day.
When the hospitals and care providers are not so overwhelmed, care will be better and fewer will die.

As the researchers in the labs have more samples to work with, treatments will improve, and fewer will die.

As the time is allowed to develop vaccines, fewer will die.

It really isn’t a case of “hide forever, or take your chances”.

Personally, I’m going for the scenario where, fewer will die.

What this really boils down to is, does either group have the right to force their own choice on everyone else?

However, we did get way off topic. The question is only about the assumed reliability of the numbers.

I read this today in The Daily Beast:
A new report claims that President Donald Trump and task force response coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx are pushing the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to revise how it tallies the nation’s overall coronavirus death count.

Trump has called on the CDC to rework how states report their individual coronavirus deaths to the federal government, and Birx specifically asked the CDC to exclude deaths of individuals who have not tested positive for coronavirus and deaths in confirmed cases not immediately attributable to the disease, according to the Daily Beast.

In recent days, Birx has suggested that the CDC is over reporting coronavirus deaths by as much as 25 percent. She allegedly told CDC Director Robert Redfield at a task force meeting that “there is nothing from the CDC that [she] can trust.” (RELATED: After Consulting With Governors, White House Earmarks $11 Billion To Help States Expand Testing Capacities)
WASHINGTON, DC – MAY 06: White House Coronavirus Task Force Coordinator Dr. Debora Birx attends a meeting with U.S. President Donald Trump and Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds in the Oval Office at the White House as he continues to promote re-opening business during the coronavirus pandemic May 06, 2020 in Washington, DC. Reynolds lifted some restrictions May 1 in 77 of her state’s counties, allowing gyms, restaurants and retail stores to reopen while areas and counties that have been hard hit by the outbreak remain closed.

The president has also voiced displeasure with the CDC’s data after the agency announced it was counting “probable” cases, and his messaging has been amplified by those in favor of reopening the economy sooner than later.

“My view is the president is totally correct that we need to have medical transparency,” economist Art Laffer told Daily Beast. “When you attribute a death to the coronavirus today, what that means is that the guy had the coronavirus and died. It doesn’t matter if he got hit by a car and died, and he would still be categorized as a coronavirus death.”

Still, CDC officials told Daily Beast that the requested changes could skew the disease’s true mortality rate and appear to be resisting the White House’s pressure to revise statistics.

I don’t think anyone really knows what the real numbers are. In my mind, for it to be a Covid-19 death, it would be a person that died specifically from the disease or a by-product of it. By-product in this case would be someone with a health issue that was exacerbated by the disease to the point that it resulted in death. But it all comes down to how someone wants to fill out the cause of death on a form. And if they get more money for a Covid death, it might result in higher numbers. On the other end, there are probably people that have gotten the disease and died without being in a hospital. So the cause of death might not be caught as Covid or might be assumed to be Covid…one or the other. But I don’t think anyone really has a firm number at this time.

@canidmajor does not seem to understand that it is pretty much a black and white issue.
No vaccine, no promise there won’t be infection.
So, with the exception of the aged/ compromised we can hide and hope for the best until the civilization collapses, or we can confront the problem. If you are able, you should confront the enemy, become immune if you are lucky, and move on.
But @canidmajor does not understand this

You sure fell for your orange gods message such a brave little soldier, ready to risk the possibility of death just to get the economy up and going just in time for your kings election, and yeah I called him your king, he called himself king of the jews just the other day and he was the chosen one.
Meet the enemy head on, oh yeah and don’t expect your job to make things safe for you, if you feel it’s not safe you can just get another job, @Josie you make me super glad I am a Canadian, who’s Government seems to care more for human life than yours does.

I’m glad you are a Canadian too. There is something reassuring about that.

That makes two of us, now go do your corporate masters proud.

Understand the first part of your response.
The rest… sort of unimaginative.

It would be to a corporate slave.

Which corporation are you talking about?
LIke, GM or Proctor and Gamble?
What is a corporate slave? Do they do that in Canada? Slavery is illegal there, right?

It’s illegal here

Uh huh, sure it is.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

I bet they don’t teach you this in Toron-oe
But it’s true

OMG you are a slow one aint ya?

@SQUEEKY2 And can’t rub two nickles together !

@SQUEEKY2 so let me ask. You are big on keeping everything shut down until it is safe. When would that be? What would that look like? I’m being serious. It’s one thing to sit back at bash anyone that suggests opening things up, but I’m curious what your ideal would look like.

You trying just to start an argument Wulfie I have said the economy can get going but slowly with health professionals in the drivers seat, and social distancing must still be adhered to anything that requires large groups of people to be close together will have to wait until there is a vaccine.
That is things like bars, night clubs, music concerts, sporting events, churches, the cruise ship industry.
And I am big at keeping things shut until safe, what does that make you? Throw the doors open and pick up the bodies later?
Really nice how the economy comes before human life to you fright wingers, and you say you’re not really heartless, you have a hard time showing it.

@SQUEEKY2 Everything you just mentioned on what would be the right way to get things going again are exactly what we are doing now. Exactly. And there will be a spike in cases of Covid-19 and there will be deaths. But there is no other way we can do it. I have stated before that the impact of this virus is on a spectrum with “do nothing” at one end and “shut everything down until it is gone” at the other. Any action other than the “shut everything down” option will result in the virus spreading. And any efforts to move back to any sense of normalcy will move you closer to the “do nothing” end. But let me point out a little piece of data that seems to be ignored. This shows death rates of different countries. The US is well below France, UK, Spain, Sweden, Mexico, Canada, and Italy. And here’s the kicker: Sweden, which never shut down and just dealt with it, is below Belgium, France, UK, Italy, Hungary, and the Netherlands, all of which shut down to some extent. I know, you won’t like the source for some reason. Okay, how ‘bout this one ? Pretty much the same stats, just a different format. But please, feel free to find your own version. But what this is showing is that shutting down wasn’t necessarily the right move, since it didn’t really stop the virus.

So we go on rates per1000 instead of the end number?
The second chart did show the us ahead of Canada, the first chart at least the one you gave me didn’t show the us on it.
Sweden as you like to point out, still observes social distancing.
As you point out you’re reopening now the way I described and there is spikes in new deaths and infections, so what does that mean fuck it and throw the doors wide open?
Can’t get any worse right?
As long as those rates stay good on the per 1000 who cares if half the country gets infected and dies but you can bend another number to still make those numbers look good as long as it distracts from the over all number who cares just get back to work, count the bodies later wouldn’t want to be accused of doing nothing now right?

Oh and shutting down was a way to SLOW the virus spreading , not stop it but you know that.
You are going to have to try harder not to come across as totally heartless.
I want all economies back to normal but I also don’t want to see needless infections and deaths at the same time.

Okay here’s playing Russian Roulette with all chambers loaded – - – Georgia Reopens with 70% of the beds filled in the ICU’‘s in hospitals.

@SQUEEKY2 The first chart did have the US on it. It was a list of 98 countries, but it only showed them in 13 increments. The US was on page 2.
Sweden used common sense. They didn’t shut everything down. Restaurants and bars did not close. Businesses were not deemed “non-essential” on some random chart and forced to close. Parks and venues were not closed. But they did generally apply social distancing and good hygiene. So they effectively “threw everything open” to use the phrase you love so much. And they have a lower death rate than many advanced countries that closed everything. So their health was considered and their economy was considered. They don’t have to “throw everything open” since it was never shut. So you are making assumptions that are not backed by facts. But that is how scare tactics work, right? You decide what point you want to make and then make is sound like to oppose that is deadly. Your liberal media has mastered that, as have many liberal politicians. But when faced with actual facts, it sort of fades away.

@SQUEEKY2 “Oh and shutting down was a way to SLOW the virus spreading , not stop it but you know that.” another example of assumptions without facts. Again…countries that stayed open (Sweden for example) didn’t really suffer any worse than those that shut down in an effort to “slow the virus”. So by your reasoning, they should have been the worst death rate there is, but they aren’t. So shutting down didn’t necessarily slow the spread of the virus. I might have, it might not have. But you can’t really say for certain, can you? Just like you can’t be certain “throwing everything open” would be worse than what we are doing.

@Tropical_Willie And if GA doesn’t see doomsday happen, what then? Will you finally admit you might be wrong? Or will they just be “lucky”?

So for you the only option is throw the doors wide open and see type thing?
Nice and very heartless of you.
So open the sporting events, concerts, churches, and everything, and wait, if the cases climb so fast it overwhelms your healthcare system then what?
I guess just let them die where they fall as long as the economy is up big business is cranking out profits, yeah and you call liberals the haters,sure looks like the hate is coming from the right.

And Wulfie according to your chart Canada has 5425 dead at 7.37 per 1000

The US has 84005 dead at a 6.05 per 1000 my mistake you guys are doing so good .

And that is just the dead count who cares if your over all number is over 10 times higher we just go to a number that makes us look good, sorry I will stay with the over all numbers.

@SQUEEKY2 Where have I said the only option is to throw the doors wide open? I have stated, with facts and not scare tactics or name calling, that countries that never shut down, effectively kept the doors wide open, are better off than many advanced countries that did shut down. I have established that for all your blather, what you would like to see is exactly what is happening. That means all your fear-mongering is really just that. It isn’t designed to solve anything. But if you are so worried about lives, let me ask you this: Don’t you care about the psychological stress and damage being done to people by the financial beating they are taking? After all, suicide rates have skyrocketed since we have been shut down. But those people don’t matter, right? Nice and very heartless of you. Here’s a idea: think for yourself instead of just parroting liberal talking points.

@SQUEEKY2 Yep, Canadian numbers are lower. But then, so is the population. Significantly. So is the population density. Significantly. That’s why in this case, death rates are the only real way to compare apples to apples. But don’t let facts stand in the way of a good liberal rant.

And if Georgia DOES see doomsday happen? Will that be accepted as proof? The way I see it, it’s too early for a verdict. Current fatality and contagion figures are to my mind scant justification for easing restrictions. And for the Swedish model? I don’t know whether it will continue to hold up. A couple of weeks ago the Swedes and Philippines were neck and neck in percentage per population statistics. The Swedes with superb evenly distributed public health infrastructure made the choice to minimize economic impact in confronting the disease. The Philippines, on the other hand is in no position to make such a decision one way or another. I have no idea what the outcome will be in either country, but can tell you without reservation which place can better afford the risks. The Swedes look good NOW. While comparison of our blue and red regions to Sweden and the Philippines may be gross exaggeration, the point should not be missed that those most prone to suffer and least able to avoid it are so willing to play the guinea pigs for their affluent blue compadres. Here in blueland I sit perfectly content to watch you folks sacrifice yourselves to ensure my dividends. Godspeed and good fortune to you all!

@stanleybmanly It is almost guaranteed that as things open, we will see spikes in cases of the virus. I will almost certainly say GA will see an increase. But I really doubt we will see doomsday. And in the end, there is no way to say what might have been. That’s pretty much what I have been saying all along. We are where we are. We have seen countries that really didn’t go crazy that aren’t doing any worse than we are. We have seen countries that went full tilt boogie trying to protect everyone and they are doing worse.
I am a believer that we in the USA had gotten lazy and entitled. We believed we were better than many and little things like viruses can’t really hurt us. So some of the basic common sense things came harder for us. I suspect Italy, UK, France, etc are in the same boat. People weren’t used to respecting personal space or comfortable wearing masks. Hand washing was perfunctory for the most part. Just the little things that put us in a bad situation.

@seawulf575 keep making up things !!
Everybody doesn’t have to die, just keep social distancing and stop going to “KEEP NC OPEN” with rifles and hand guns, oh and Swastika and Confederate Battle flags AND NO MASKS (were you there? )

——JUST SAYING ! !

@Tropical_Willie I truly feel sorry for you. You seem so filled with fear and anger! Your answer shows that so well.

So your facts Canada’s death rate is 7.48%
THe US is 6.06% and yours is so much better at 1.42%
And your over all number is close to 85000 ours is just over 5000 and you are doing so much better?
Well if you get your way about the economy those death rates are going to blow ours away .For being so full of peace and love you come across as all hate.

I have seen photos of those protests and some of the protesters were indeed armed.
But what ever give’er let the bodies lie where they fall after all NOTHING is more important than money and profits not human life or health just money, isn’t that the fright wing way?
After all we lefties are just lazy ,and lie around expecting our entitlements,not respecting the corporate way .NOT wanting to die just so share holders can get their dividend checks .

@seawulf575 in your case Psychological projection would be closer to your thinking. I’m not in mortal fear.

@squeeky2 Ummm…first off, the numbers are in percentage. They are number of deaths per X number of population. “X” may change depending on the stats you find. In this case, I believe it was per 100,000 people. So while you are trying desperately to make the US the heavies, what you actually have is almost 1.5 more deaths per 100,000 people in Canada as opposed to the USA. In other words, it is spreading/killing more readily in Canada than in the US.
And you keep ranting about money over lives. Yet you have not addressed the increased suicides that I mentioned earlier. So are you really saving lives? Or are you just killing people by their own hands after stressing them into submission?

Where are your wonderful facts on these suicides??
Also seeing your so good at fact finding could you locate a recovery from C19 fact per 1000 people as well?

@SQUEEKY2 The fact that you are asking for facts on suicide says you are purposely avoiding looking at the news. It is everywhere. Here, I’ll give you a few examples:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/10/us/disaster-hotline-call-increase-wellness-trnd/index.html

https://www.news4jax.com/health/2020/03/25/pandemic-suicide-spike-signs-to-watch-for-how-you-can-help/

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/report-says-thailands-suicide-rate-increasing-during-coronavirus-pandemic/

https://newsone.com/3921332/coronavirus-related-suicides-amid-anxiety/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/04/mental-health-coronavirus/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8207783/150-000-Brits-die-coronavirus-pandemic-domestic-violence-suicides.html

So I really need to go on? Other things that some of these reports also show is that along with suicides due to mental stress brought on by stay-at-home orders, there is also an increase in drug overdoses and deaths due to domestic violence. But that information doesn’t help your liberal talking points, right?

Ok I believe you, don’t know why you included other countries facts as well.
Now how about a recovery rate per 1000 for the USA can you do that as well?
Plus @Cheebdragon showed me that they are opening the states slowly so I am ok with that, but it seems you are not.

@SQUEEKY2 I included other countries just to highlight the point that it isn’t just a US or Canada thing…that it is all over the world.
The recovery rate is just as amorphous as the death rate. For example, right now my daughter has all the indications that she has Covid-19. But they won’t test her because she is not in one of the “at risk” demographics. So they have told her to stay home and not go back to work until she has been without a fever for 3 days. Since they won’t test, she will never get counted as having it. So if she gets better, that won’t count either. So asking for a specific number is silly. This shows a chart but again, I’d take it with a grain of salt. It isn’t per 1000 people, it is per 1M people. But you could take the number of confirmed cases per 1M people and subtract off the confirmed deaths per 1M people. That would give you the number of people that survive, per 1M people. But again, the testing is the key, as is the decision as to what is called a death due to the virus. It is pretty squiggly since there is no common set of rules for all countries.
As for opening states slowly, when have I ever said or even hinted that I’m not okay with that? I pointed out to you that for all your ranting, we were already doing exactly what you said was the right thing. I don’t understand where your rants come from since they don’t seem to be based in reality. My views of opening things up is pretty clear cut. I have stated that no matter when you open things up, there will be a spike in cases and deaths. I’ve also pointed out that shutting everything down didn’t really do much for us in the way of protection of people from the virus (when compared with Sweden that did not shut down). I fully believe we need to work fairly quickly to get our economies open again. But there are a lot of people that are scared, so we need to move smartly to get things open as well as quickly.

here is your leader talking about tests.. https://youtu.be/1_XwC9IQKBc

There is no longer any debate over whether our fool is a catastrophe in the face of this disease. It is now merely a question of which is the greater disaster—the virus or the man. It is sadly the necessary function of any government
to decide how many of its citizens must be sacrificed for the public good. Trump’s stubborn and deadly insistence on underestimating this disease persists and actually intensifies as the bodies pile up in front of him. For all of those insisting on opening up the country, and those leaders eagerly engaged in the pushing of said process, the consequences will shortly speak for themselves. Rush says the bluelands are out to sink Trump through wrecking the economy. To which the obvious retort is that our fool will commit suicide through the mass sacrifice of his believers and the untold numbers of others sucked into the vortex behind them. It’s a grim contest, and one way or another, the verdict will arrive before November.

@SQUEEKY2 Despite your belief, I don’t buy all that Trump says. Saying there are plenty of tests might be a true statement, but it is still up to the medical community and the states as to how they use them. I don’t want the federal government ruling everything and am content with state and locals bearing the decision-making on how we deal with this. I can much more easily vote out a local or state official than a POTUS if I don’t like their decisions. So Trump says there are plenty of tests…okay. He isn’t the doctor and isn’t on the front lines of distribution and as far as I know, he has stated that and has specifically NOT stated he is taking control of the details. He has, in fact, made recommendations and offered help, but has pushed the decisions to where they need to be made. Despite the claims of the left, he has not tried being a dictator or a king. He HAS delegated responsibility where it needs to be.

And thus he continues to display his bungling ineptitude. Like it or not this is a NATIONAL emergency. What’s the function of a national government ? Do we leave it up to the states to individually fight our wars as they see fit? Should Alabama decide whether it wants to participate in putting a man on the moon? If some inbred moron in Nebraska decides that it’s best not to gather statistics on casualties, should an idiotic President be allowed to tell me that the decision is in the national interest? What’s the point of the lying fool’s existence as President if the states are permitted and ENCOURAGED to emulate and EXCEED his own stupidities?

@stanleybmanly See? That is where you and I differ on what we expect or want out of the federal government. This virus is not a national emergency, it is a global emergency. But regardless, it doesn’t mean the federal government gets to take total control. Our nation is actually 50 separate and sovereign states, all with their own governments, all answerable to their own citizens. And they are tied together as one nation through the federal government. So in this case, I believe the federal government ought to being doing the background, the interactions with other nations and other global organizations (i.e. WHO), and be generating recommendations. But when it comes to how to deal locally, that falls to the governors and the state legislatures. For instance, there are several states that never shut down. It was recommended from the Feds, but the governors didn’t see that as being right for their states. Not all states are the same and don’t have the same challenges. So from what I want and expect, Trump is doing fine. You seem to be more of the frame of mind that one massive central government ought to run rough-shod over everyone, taking total control, making decisions on the very basics of our lives. In other words, you want a dictatorship, even as you scream that Trump is trying to be a king or a dictator.

Wulfie you keep saying it’s up to each state Governor then how come the Supreme Court just over ruled Wisconsins Governor, that sound like that was the Feds doing.

@SQUEEKY2 psst psst Wufie doesn’t want Trump to be blamed for his inept handling from the get go, he going for 50 or scapegoats ! !

You know the CDC is a national organization, right Wulfie??

Here is Trump’s impact on his followers They’re getting infected and he knows it. The leaked report was from his “Task Force”, it shows infections spiking more than 1,000% in rural areas that backed Trump.

@seawulf575 It is truly asinine to state that this is not a national crisis because it is global, and any 5 year old will tell you it is BOTH. And while I agree that local matters are usually best dealt with locally, it is the obligation of the Federal government to resist and override local decisions in your state which directly threaten ME in mine. Just as the FEDs can bust a pimp who moves his trade from Omaha To Council Bluffs, the Federal government has specific and MANDATED domain over a disease that crosses state lines.

@SQUEEKY2 Read your source again. It wasn’t the Supreme Court of the United States that overruled the Wisconsin Governor, it was the Wisconsin Supreme Court. Still in the state. And let’s review what they did. The reeled in a governor that overstepped his boundaries. He tried to unilaterally, through an executive order, change the election process. That isn’t his job. Just as it isn’t Trump’s job on the federal elections. And because it was the state supreme court, it falls right in line with what I was saying.

@stanleybmanly you are grasping. Yes, it is a national emergency but it is a global emergency as well. The fact you try to make it look like I am separating the two shows you are grasping.
No, it isn’t the job of the federal government to interfere in local matters unless they specifically fall into a few areas. Interstate commerce and transportation for example. Having as state such as Georgia for instance, opening up more than California is not their jurisdiction. And Trump has made that abundantly clear and it is right in line with his authority. He has made recommendations and has specifically stated it is up to the governors to determine what is best for their states. Again, what might be necessary for NYC might not be necessary for Wyoming.
A criminal crossing state lines falls under federal jurisdiction specifically because it is an interstate issue. So your pimp crossing lines can fall under their jurisdiction so he can’t slip through on loopholes of jurisdiction.
As for the specific and MANDATED domain over a disease that crosses state lines…care to supply the applicable links? In other words, you know, support your idiotic claim? As it happens I know the applicable CFRs and have read through them. But I will let you blather around a while and try to tell me why you are so above having to explain or support your claims, all the while knowing how off-base you are. But I will give you a clue…nothing says they HAVE to do anything. They all give options that can be done and the authority to do them if so decided. So MANDATED is a bit strong. But here’s an interesting side note: Many of these same CFRs have been used during Obama’s and Trumps times in office and many of you fools on the left went crazy. Because they deal with the authority to detain and quarantine people from other nations entering this nation. In other words, all your precious illegal aliens that were being detained, examined, quarantined, etc were all being done by the same laws you say the Feds are MANDATED to uphold. So which is it? Are they supposed to worry about infectious diseases or not?

Ok Wulfie I went back saw and read nothing about that Governor changing an election process
what I did see was the supreme court over ruled him on a stay at home order,maybe it is you and your hate for anything Democrat to go back and check your source so you don’t come across sounding so full of anger and hate.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/13/politics/wisconsin-supreme-court-strikes-down-stay-at-home-order/index.html

I don’t even know where you got the election thing from?
Care to provide a lnk to it.

@SQUEEKY2 As usual, CNN didn’t give all the details. If you read your CNN article, it mentions the governor (executive branch) overstepping its authority. Issuing stay at home orders and ordering certain businesses closed can be done by the executive branch in an executive order for a crisis. That’s actually one of the jobs of the governor…to protect the people. But I saw this article that makes a lot more sense of it. The push to keep the stay at home order in place forces the delay of elections. That, unilaterally changing elections without getting the state legislature involved IS an overstep of authority.

Of course it was an evil democrat plan, good thing the peace loving Rep/cons saw through it, and put a stop to it right away.
I see most people are getting done with the shut down and opening up screw social distancing, getting back to normal is far better than any harm a little so called virus can do.
I see you keep referencing Switzerland and how they didn’t shut down, and seem to be doing fine you do know they are still observing social distancing among other health things to keep them safe.
But I am done ranting you are always right we are always wrong.
Hope your daughter is doing ok.

You understand why Switzerland has low numbers??

My sister has lived in Switzerland for 25 years, she works and travel through Europe. She was at a convention in Spain and went to Paris for another one. When she returned to Switzerland she was notified by people in Paris she had been in contact for two days with a confirmed COVID-19 case. Back at home she spiked a temp of over 100.8 ! Dry cough and all the other symptoms. Contacted her Doctor and he said we don’t test for people that aren’t high risk.

No test; she doesn’t have COVID-19 !

Well that would certainly keep their numbers low, where did they learn that from the Trump administration ?

@SQUEEKY2 When did I say anything about an evil democratic plan? You are so obsessed. Here’s a thought I have…you’d rather live in a dictatorship. You don’t want the existing laws we have in this country that protect our rights and keep dictators out. When a person oversteps their bounds towards that dictatorship, he gets stopped. And you go crazy. Why is that?
And I don’t keep referencing Switzerland. You can’t even read right. I keep referencing SWEDEN. Big difference…about 1000 miles. But don’t let reality slip in and break up a good rant. After all, if it weren’t for irrational rants, what would the left have?

Gee Trump makes miss quotes all the time and you seem fine with that, you did say Sweden my mistake. that Governor got over ruled because his stay at home order was going to interfere with the election, you made it sound like that was his master plan, hence I came up with the evil democrat plan.
I am obsessed because the right is more concerned with the economy and money than peoples lives, you come back with well people are committing suicide in droves because of the shut down and they are much more important than silly people dying from a global pandemic, you keep referencing Sweden <see got it right, and things should go back to normal right away.
And I am ranting you are opening slowly and I am fine with that, you don’t seem to be though.

Oh and when The Don Father miss quotes, or gets something totally ass backwards I don’t see you saying the idiot can’t comprehend or read type thing do we??
But when a Lefty does fuck watch out watch out super red neck to action.

???
No difference there. One man has undertaken running one of the biggest countries in the world, the other has a job navigating through traffic.

@SQUEEKY2 I think you need to take a deep breath, hold it for a count of 10, and let it out slowly. You seem to be getting worked up.
I’m going to point out something that has been common in most of your answers. I’m not saying this to poke at you or to start a fight or anything. I’m saying it as an observation that might help with our conversations. You deal in absolutes and you assign thoughts and behaviors to others. Think about it, go back and review, and you will see what I mean…maybe. For example: Your last few responses to me…take a look at them.
I pointed out the error in your understanding of the Wisconsin stay-at-home order getting overridden. You had several. You stated it was the SCOTUS and you implied it was because he issued a stay-at-home order. The facts were it was the state supreme court and it was because his extension of the stay-at-home order would impact the elections. Nothing in my response even hinted that it was some evil master plan. I stated why the state supreme court overrode his executive order…that’s it.
Along the way you went into Trump misquotes and how I feel about them (which you really don’t understand) and compared them to your own misquote. I corrected your misquote (okay, rather harshly). Why? Because I am conversing with you. If I were conversing with President Trump and he misquoted me, I would correct him as well. When he has a gaffe when public speaking, I really don’t see it as that big a deal and can’t get to the point of looking at it as anything to get worked up about. And oftentimes I will bring up Joe Biden in these discussions as a point of reference that he makes more gaffes per public speaking than anyone I have ever seen and the response for many of the liberal jellies is that is okay…no big deal. When the reaction to any gaffe from Trump is that he is an idiot or lying or any number of other things.
You believe the “right” is more concerned about the economy and money than people’s lives. You have grouped a whole bunch of people into having one very ambiguous idea. By “the right”, you seem to imply anyone that feels we have been shut down too long or is scared of the financial beating they are taking or really anyone that doesn’t really agree with your thoughts. By using “economy and money” you are ambiguous because you have assigned a generalization to those same people. Their actual reasons or beliefs seem to be discounted entirely and lumped into those two terms. I brought up the spiking suicide rate as a point you hadn’t thought or seemed to discount. Whether someone dies of the virus or by their own hand, they are dead. I brought this up to try getting you to open up your black and white views a little. To me, the suicides ARE worse than the virus. The suicides are brought on by the actions of our government and they imply, to me at least, that these people are suffering for a long time before dying. They are literally worrying themselves to death. That seems excessively cruel to me. And many of these same people would likely live if they contracted the virus because they aren’t in high risk categories. And when someone commits suicide, it leaves a lasting mark on many, many people in their lives. So those same deaths impact those left behind far more than a death by sickness.
As for opening slowly, you assign to me the thought process that I just want to throw the doors open. Again…when have I ever said that? I have pointed out Sweden in this discussion as a point of reference that those countries that never shut down really didn’t suffer any worse fate than many countries that did. And I have pointed out that when we open up again we will see a spike in cases…it is inevitable. But we don’t know the extent of that increase and we have no idea if it would have been better to stay open since that boat left the dock. We are where we are. The scientist in me believes in a step-wise course of action to get out of that place. And I believe we need to get out of that place.
I’m telling you all this as a way to try explaining the “why” behind many of my comments and to point out why I believe you are not understanding that “why”.

Here is something interesting

“Rebekah Jones said in an email to CBS12 News that her removal was “not voluntary” and that she was removed from her position because she was ordered to censor some data, but refused to “manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen.” ”

So here we are with Georgia being open now for almost 3 weeks. Doomsday has not occurred. Their incidents of Covid-19 continue in a slight downward trend. Does this make anyone else see that it is possible?

Hey Wulfie you like to reference Sweden because they didn’t shut down and their numbers are not any better or worse than countries who did .
Did you bother to check them on that death rate chart you linked, you know the one that had the US at 6% and Canada at 7.4% and you guy were doing so much better even though you had over 85thousand dead and we had just under 6 thousand.
Well your Sweden has 12.5% over double the rate of the us.
And they are doing so good?

Sure “it’s possible”. 3 weeks? But exactly WHAT qualifies as doomsday? Lest we forget what distinguishes us from the rest of the developed world, there is the looming question of what is to become of those who literally cannot afford this disease? I wonder just how many of us they are?

@SQUEEKY2 Yep, they are more, that is for sure. But let’s think for a moment. We are expecting a second or third round of this come the fall. Sweden has already established a good baseline immunity….the countries that didn’t shut down haven’t. So it makes me think that when “round 2 or 3” come around, they will be far less impacted. And at that point, it is likely they will look like the smart ones and the rest of the world will look foolish.

@stanleybmanly It is amazing the mental gymnastics you go through and what you have to ignore to try making yourself right. You are right that there are many that can’t afford this disease, especially the elderly and infirm. But when GA opened, they didn’t just go to business-as-usual…they continued with social distancing and businesses that opened all took precautions. Exactly what you would expect. But you bring up an interesting concern, and a point I have noticed not one of you libbies have addressed. On March 25, Andrew Cuomo, the NY governor, issued a mandate that no nursing home could refuse admission of a person solely on the reason they had or were suspected of having Covid-19. In other words, he forced nursing homes to put infected people in with “healthy” ones. You know…the people that literally cannot afford this disease? And as a result, thousands of nursing home residents died of Covid-19. And I haven’t heard a single one of you fools say a word about what a stupid decision that was or how he killed those people. Guess libby indignation only exists if the person’s name is “Trump”, right? Oh, I guess you’d throw a Kushner in there too.

President Trump announced operation warp speed.

Fauci speeds recovery time?

Trump’s elixir victim of bad testing?

Everybody is trying something

A cure!

Probably.

@seawulf575 Mental gymnastics require a working mind—which is the primary reason that Cuomo is heroic regardless of any mistakes attributed to him. The fool on the other hand has (once again) failed in spectacular fashion to provide the leadership and generate the trust people expect in a time of crisis. He has in fact proven so hopeless in this respect that any achievement in combating the disease has not been because of him. It is rather IN SPITE OF HIM that the battle must be waged by the very agencies he seeks to demoralize, undermine and destroy. My comment on the unaffordability of this pandemic is no result of mental gymnastics. It is simply the stark realization that because of our for profit healthcare system, millions of Americans unlike their other first world counterparts are going to be saddled with crippling medical debts in the midst of the worst recession since the 30s. You blockheads so terrified of socialism are in for a lesson on the consequences of pigheaded stupidity.

So @seawulf575 we should just expose ourselves to the virus and those it doesn’t kill will only become stronger?
What about people with compromised systems? Oh well it’s war and there are always going to be victims.
I do agree there will be at least a second wave even though ole orange hair said it would just vanish come warm weather,is the expose yourself your way of culling the heard?
Then you say suicides are going through the roof due to the lock down and them killing themselves is the Governments doing,the people dying from Covid 19 is that the governments doing as well?

@stanleybmanly So you are okay with demanding that nursing homes accept Covid-19 patients, even though they will be in an environment with many at-risk people….elderly, compromised immune systems, heart issues, breathing issues, etc? Good to know. And you will defend the idiot that mandated this. Let me ask…if Trump had made that same mandate…or even as a suggestion or an aside comment…would you feel the same about that idea?

@SQUEEKY2 You are a fool. I’m pointing out things that are going on and what the actual impacts are. You want to try reading into it. So let me ask, since you are so hot to trot on keeping people with compromised immune systems protected, why haven’t you been up in arms about Gov Cuomo mandating that we put Covid-19 infected persons into nursing homes? The obvious threat there is to all the other residents with compromised immune systems being put into relatively close contact with infected persons. And guess what? It resulted in thousands of deaths in those nursing homes. Yet you are silent about that. So be honest…you don’t care one whit about people, you just want to try slamming Trump. It’s called Trump Derangement Syndrome, and you’ve got it bad.

@SQUEEKY2 I know you want to ignore the suicide angle since you really don’t have an answer to it. But let’s do a little math. From all the stats I can find, the US annual number of suicides is anywhere from 45,000 to 48,000 per year. Let’s take the low end of that just to be nice to you. That means, on average, you see 3750 suicides per month. According to the CNN link I provided you earlier, in March, the increase in calls to the suicide help line was 891% higher than the previous year for that month. That is 33,452 more people that are contemplating suicide. The obvious reason is the impact of shutting down the countries that brings on financial stress as well as many other sorts of stress. So that is 33,452 that are desperate enough to call for help. Now we can assume that not all of those people (or even those that didn’t call) committed suicide. But let’s be generous to you again and say that of that 891% increase, only 400% went on to commit suicide. That’s 15,000 extra deaths in one month. There have been roughly 90,000 deaths from Coronavirus in this country in 3+ months. That is an average of 30,000 per month. So suicides are almost exactly ½ of the total deaths due to Covid-19. Now I know you don’t really care about 15,000 people killing themselves each month since it would blast your arguments to pieces. Hard to claim you want to keep things shut down if you have to say “well, 15,000 a month is a price worth paying”. You also have to ignore the torture you are putting those other 40,000 people that called but but didn’t follow through. Again…no skin off your nose as long as you can maintain your claim. And we won’t even go into the increase in domestic violence calls. Well, maybe we should. This shows an increase of 700% in the domestic violence calls in Britain since the social lockdown. This shows it isn’t limited to Britain. This shows in increase of around 20% in several of the PDs that responded to the request from NBC. Hundreds of extra cases per month in each police district that responded, on average. So while they may not result in deaths, there are literally thousands of extra cases of domestic violence due to the lock-downs. And most of them are women, not that you care.
You can continue to try ignoring all these unintended consequences of shutting down economies and issuing stay at home orders. I’m not going to try convincing you otherwise. But just understand that as long as you refuse to actually acknowledge this and continue to deflect away from it, all your arguments and smarmy comments are nothing but hot air. You have no rational leg to stand on.

#1 reason most stop following a question
@stanleybmanly
@seawulf575
@SQUEEKY2

Bore everyone to tears banging on about politics :D

Go choke on a crumpet.

Look dork A.K.A Wulfie I have never said keep things locked down, just go slowly upon you saying that is exactly what the us is doing, fine, but that doesn’t sit well with you, people are committing suicide by the thousands due to the stress the shut down has caused.
And of course you can’t help but Blame a Democrat for the high numbers in NYC, if he did that it was a huge fuck up on his part, but I bet unlike your Don Father he learned from it
And to say I don’t care you get all fright wing when I accuse you of things but it’s fine for you uh BITE ME!!

Oh and @seawulf575 My hate for Trump pales in comparison to your hate of the left.

@SQUEEKY2 Its true about the nursing homes.

Then it was a huge fuck up on his part, but I still bet he learned from it unlike The Don Father who has learned nothing, and takes no responsibility for anything unless it’s huge leaps in the stock market.

@seawulf575 again you are busy putting words in my mouth. It is a nasty and dishonest habit that debases your arguments for the same reasons such tactics discredit the fool. Rather than approving Cuomo’s assignment of infected people to convalescent homes, I told you specifically that regardless of THAT decision, the man is a hero imbued with the qualities required of leadership, while the dummy is not. Again, THERE IS NO NEED TO SLAM TRUMP. The objective truth is more than adequate condemnation of the feckless dumbbell. Meantime we must await the verdict regarding your urgency to open things up. 3 weeks in Georgia is scanty proof on the efficacy of such a decision, particularly when referenced against the incoming results from places like Texas, Michigan and Nebraska. We will know soon enough one way or another, but my point is that it is a great deal easier to remedy a devastated economy than it will be to revive the pile of unnecessary corpses that may well hang on the decision. Those living in places ramping up are welcome to stick their necks in the noose at the encouragement of the fool. Personally, I’m not prepared to believe anything the idiot has to recommend, but you are certainly welcome to parade your silly ass through the minefield at his suggestion. After all, you trust him. I admire you for being true to your convictions. Good luck and I mean it.

@seawulf575 you going to a local bar for an “opening up” party ??

@SQUEEKY2 Who should take the credit or criticism?

Well you right wingers go and on how Trump shut down the border with China early and yet thousands came through that closure, and the virus is big time in North America.
You also point out that New Yorks Governor put sick people into care homes, which was a major fuck up, I mean he had to know how contagious this virus is.
Trump is taking no responsibility on any thing during this pandemic, and yet saying he is doing everything.
Trump says they should look into disinfectants in the body, then saying he said it sarcastically .
He seems to scoff at anything scientific,that he deserves major criticism.
And he goes on about testing isn’t needed I mean you test you get more cases,HUH?
You find out if they have it and you can start contact tracing and try and slow the spread.

I think the testing needed most at this point is for antibodies.
We can get a strong idea of how many are still at risk, but at the same time learn who is able to donate plasma for vaccine trials.

I would agree with that.^^

@SQUEEKY2 Dork! Okay dork, listen. I’ve never said throw everything open and just pick up the pieces afterward. But don’t let that bother you. You continue to try putting words in my mouth. Carry on. As for Cuomo, yes, he did give that mandate and no, he hasn’t learned from it. In fact, just the other day a reporter asked him if, in retrospect, he felt that was a good move. His answer? Old people die. Who you gonna sue? God? a Virus? Old people die and it is sad and there is nothing we can do about it. In other words, he refuses to even say it was wrong. No, he screwed up and cannot admit it. But you go ahead and make excuses for him. After all, he is a Dem, right?

@stanleybmanly So Cuomo literally makes a decision that makes no sense and kills thousands and he is heroic. Remember, it’s not his first mistake in this crisis. In 2015 he decided that his state did not need 16,000 ventilators to combat pandemics. He was warned by the experts that they would need those ventilators in case of a major pandemic. He decided at that point to just deal with it through triage to decide who would get available ventilators. He even created a panel to give guidance on making that decision.
In the end, NY is our hardest hit area. It is THE epicenter for the US. And you cannot bear the thought of criticizing Cuomo (he’s HEROIC!) or even DeBlasio for their handling of this crisis. No…you just hate Trump. TDS lives on with you.

Shit and you say I don’t listen,I AM OK WITH OPENING THE WAY YOU ARE!!
I DID SAY CUOMO FUCKED UP BIG TIME PUTTING INFECTED PEOPLE INTO REST HOMES, You say he hasn’t leaned from it will take that with a grain of salt knowing your hate for everything democrat.
As for putting words in your mouth, holy fuck you do that all the time to me, but that seems ok, is that because you are a peace loving rep/con?
Did you get that?

As for Cuomo not admitting it was a fuck up to put infected people into rest homes, has Trump admitted to any of his fuck ups??
AND I WILL TELL YOU I THINK IT WAS NOT ONLY A FUCK UP, BUT DISGUSTING AS WELL TO PUT INFECTED PEOPLE IN AMONGST THE MOST VULNERABLE!
You say we have a Trump hating syndrome, he has that affect on anybody who doesn’t love his BBQ bullsit on a bun.
BUT you and deny if you want have Dem/lib hate syndrome and it shine through on every post you make.

@SQUEEKY2 what I find most interesting is that the more we debate, the more erratic and voluble you get. But here’s the part you aren’t getting: All this stuff about Cuomo wasn’t because I hate Dems…it is to point out how one-sided all your views are. You hadn’t even heard that Cuomo did anything like that at all. THAT should worry you because it is indeed a pretty bad choice and none of the MSM really reported on it at all. They are finally getting around to it, but the decision is almost 2 months and several thousand lives late. And when I told you, you agreed it was bad, but then made excuses for him (but he learned from it!) and then tried deflecting back to Trump. Instead of actually looking into the Cuomo issue, you made a gross assumption and went with it. So I pointed to reality again…that Cuomo has not acknowledged any wrongdoing. And at that point, you realized you had no reasonable denials to toss out…finally. So you just went back to whataboutisms.
And here’s the funniest part…I don’t hate Cuomo. I think he made a mistake and should fess up. No biggie. We are ALL in the middle of something we have never been in before. Many, many people are making decisions given spotty information, using their best guess available at the time. But there are a couple things that need to change before we start healing. The first is that people do need to start acknowledging bad decisions. That includes the President, the Canadian Prime Minister, The Dems, the Repubs…everyone. We need to also acknowledge that we don’t know everything. Just because someone does something or has an opinion you disagree with, doesn’t make them any more right or wrong than you. It just makes them different. And that is something most of you Trump haters cannot get past. And that brings us to the last thing. When you disagree with something that Trump says or does, it isn’t an automatic fuck-up on his part. And all the hatred directed at him by people on the left and especially the MSM only causes more problems for everyone. It is very divisive. You always want me to admit Trump fucked up on something and most times I don’t see it as a fuck-up. The left-wing media tries to make everything look like a screw up, but most times that is their bias showing through. I tend to dig into things a bit more instead of just parroting what they say. So I might have a different view than you. Doesn’t make me right and you wrong or vice versa.

mike drop

Ball drop

Let’s be clear once and for all on this c-19 thing.

A lot of confusing information I do agree @Patty_Melt so what is the answer ?
Say fuck it and just return to the way it was before C-19?
It should be observe the 6foot distance rule, when out in public.
Wash your hands .
Don’t put yourself in a situation where 6 feet can’t be obtained.
Just remember by the end of this month if not before the US will have over a hundred thousand dead, what do you say to them and their families?
Well Trump put a travel ban on from China, that sure helped them huh?

Since it is STILL impossible to test everyone required or willing to work, we can only count the hospitalized and the dead—a truly piss poor reckoning for forecasting outcomes. I genuinely hope those insisting that we open up have guessed right. I can only note that from
the outset the optimists have been terribly mistaken in every forecast given, and this is particularly true regarding our hapless President who knows the least yet pontificates loudest. Personally, I feel that I’ve lucked out in living where I am with the luxury of watching those of you compelled to participate in this the great great experiment.

@stanleybmanly so if we maintain closures, we kill people through a lot of other methods than disease. Is that what you would rather have? Poverty and death? Make a choice man!

I’ve made my choice. I’m parked here and more content than I have a right to be, watching the experiment you so eagerly endorse.