Social Question

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Is Trump escalating the situation with his tough guy rhetoric during these protests?

Asked by SQUEEKY2 (23475points) June 4th, 2020

I think that Sheriff that walked with the protesters was amazing, during that walk NO one was hurt, NO one was arrested, NO property damage, and the protesters got heard which is all they wanted.
But No The Don Father wants the police to dominate the protesters meet them with full storm trooper gear, talk about escalating the problem.
Do you think Trump is doing it the right way, and why?

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80 Answers

SQUEEKY2's avatar

So Fake news and the democrats are all at fault for this?^ WOW!
And FOX???? REALLY the biggest of the fakers.

Patty_Melt's avatar

You know from what perspective? I am right here, front row seat.
I can’t get plywood anywhere in my state. Businesses have bought it all to protect what they have left.

ragingloli's avatar

Absolutely he does.
He only gave brief lip-service at the beginning, but ever since then, he has demonstrated that he gives zero shits about the protesters’s plight, and has shown nothing but contempt for them.
During a phone call with Floyd’s brother, he did not even let him speak.
No attempts at reconciliation, no acknowledgement of the systemic problems of racism that the The People are protesting, not even hints of promises to fix the underlying issues.
Instead he pounds the drum of “law and order”, calls governers “weak” for not mowing down the protesters, threatens to mobilise the military to crush them, actively has protesters violently dispersed and gassed, so he can have a photo-op at a church.
Pigs are instigating violence, attack members of the press, destroy medic stations.
You will hear not a peep from the Orangutan about that.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

I can’t get plywood anywhere in my state.

Yeah, that’s nonsense. Sounds like the kind of dumb hysteria people spread on Facebook.

I live a mile (in two directions) from businesses that were looted. Nothing is boarded up except those particular storefronts.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Washington Post – June 2, 2020 – CIA veterans who monitored crackdowns abroad see troubling parallels in Trump’s handling of protests

”...Marc Polymeropoulos, who formerly ran CIA operations in Europe and Asia, was among several former agency officials who recoiled at images of Trump hoisting a Bible in front of St. John’s Episcopal Church in Washington after authorities fired rubber bullets and tear gas to clear the president’s path of protesters.

“It reminded me of what I reported on for years in the third world,” Polymeropoulos said on Twitter. Referring to the despotic leaders of Iraq, Syria and Libya, he said: “Saddam. Bashar. Qaddafi. They all did this…”

”...Former intelligence officials said the unrest and the administration’s militaristic response are among many measures of decay they would flag if writing assessments about the United States for another country’s intelligence service.”

“They cited the country’s struggle to contain the novel coronavirus, the president’s attempt to pressure Ukraine for political favors, his attacks on the news media and the increasingly polarized political climate as other signs of dysfunction…”

SQUEEKY2's avatar

There has to be a better way, with less ,no make that no injuries, or property damage, These protesters are sick of seeing their brothers and sons getting killed at the hands of cops for only getting pulled over in a traffic violation.
I am a middle age white man, and right now the states scare the shit out of me, with what is going on, and a leader saying YOU HAVE TO DOMINATE these protesters yeah that is working.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Short answer is yes…

Patty_Melt's avatar

Hey Jay, good for you. I know the situation where I live.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Well @Patty_Melt You better hope there is enough of Trumps base left to re-elect him cause this I think will definitely cost him the colour vote, that and hispanic vote as well.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

_Hey Jay, good for you. I know the situation where I live.

Not if you think plywood is unavailable in your entire state. That isn’t true. Guaranteed.

Whoever told you that is lying to you,

mazingerz88's avatar

trump is a master escalator and manipulator with his tough guy rhetoric. Luckily not all Americans are swayed and taken in by his BS.

Here is the Washington Post’s recent opinion on what he did once in office with regards to police reform.

————————-

A FEW HOURS after President Trump took the oath of office in 2017, the White House issued a statement vowing to reverse what it called a “dangerous anti-police atmosphere in America,” a promise consistent with his so-called law-and-order campaign stances: endorsing the death sentence for those who kill officers; defending police accused of misconduct in officer-involved shootings; favoring tough tactics such as “stop-and-frisk.”

Many law enforcement agencies and officers cheered, including the head of the police union in Minneapolis, Lt. Bob Kroll, who, appearing at a rally with Mr. Trump last fall, lauded a president who “put the handcuffs on the criminals instead of us.”

Mr. Kroll, who has warned of a rush to judgment against the officer who kneeled for more than eight minutes on George Floyd’s neck, does not represent all police. But he does give voice to a considerable number who deeply resented President Barack Obama’s efforts to nudge the nation’s 18,000 police departments toward modest reforms that, had they taken root more broadly, might have strengthened the bonds officers need to serve their communities — and that citizens need to feel safe.

Those Obama-era reforms have been systematically rolled back by the Trump administration, which in the process has signaled that it will not concern itself too greatly if police push to, and beyond, the limits.

When Mr. Trump on Monday demanded that governors “dominate” protesters and rioters, it was in line with the “rough” tactics he admires and his recommendation that officers should not be “too nice” when arresting suspects.

By contrast, a task force appointed by Mr. Obama urged that police assume roles not as “warriors” but as “guardians.” In that spirit, his administration restricted supplies of surplus military equipment to police forces and, through the courts, pursued consent decrees requiring broad reforms for departments where abuses had been systematic.

Despite those initiatives, Mr. Obama was only beginning to advance his policing task force’s recommendations, which included stricter rules against racial profiling; federal policies to encourage more diverse police hiring; independent investigations and prosecutions for officer-involved deaths; and more published information from departments detailing detentions, arrests and crimes, broken down by demographics.

To Mr. Trump, those recommendations, and Mr. Obama’s actual policies, amounted to a “war on police.” His administration has reinstated the supply of military equipment to police and distanced itself from consent decrees.

The Trump White House has also turned a blind eye to the systemic racism most African Americans believe, and studies confirm, they confront in dealing with police; according to Robert C. O’Brien, Mr. Trump’s national security adviser, it does not even exist.

Mr. Trump’s dog whistles and bullhorn blasts help ensure that police will remain unaccountable — rarely indicted when they kill unarmed people; frequently cleared when they are disciplined; often reinstated when they are fired for misconduct.

They suggest there will be no change in racial profiling or unjustified officer-involved killings.

Having torn up his predecessor’s blueprint, Mr. Trump now has nothing to offer — no prescriptions, no healing and no vision beyond a status quo many Americans abhor. In reality, his slogans and impulses signal a disrespect for law, and path away from order.

ucme's avatar

With these hardcore nutjobs, there’s only one language they understand.
Fight fire with fire!
Simple, effective & straight to the point.

Jeruba's avatar

I would expect anyone, anyone but the most mentally and emotionally impaired creature imaginable, to understand that you can’t run roughshod over people and expect them to like it.

The fact that this man either doesn’t get it or doesn’t care is beyond chilling. We ran out of apt vocabulary for this monster’s reign a long time ago.

josie's avatar

Love him or hate him the president recognizes an elemental truth.
Marchers are protected by the first amendment, looters are the dregs of society.
Lots of people want to believe there is virtue in burning and looting.
It appears he does not. Good for him. One of the reasons he was elected is that lots of people are tired of the tendency to “enable” burners and looters. They suck. Fuck them.

Protect marchers. That is right.

But If looters don’t disperse Make their lives uncomfortable.
As an individual I would tolerate marchers on my street but if they broke down my door I would not tolerate that.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Josie I believe you recognize the elemental truth about marchers have a right and looters have a right straight to jail, I just don’t think Trump can tell the difference between the two.

josie's avatar

Of course you don’t
No surprise

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I guess I don’t see him in the same orange basking light as you do.

josie's avatar

I don’t like him on a personal level
But he has an unambiguous point of view.
Unlike establishment East Coast politicians.
It’s a revolutionary approach.
I understand the longing for the status quo.
Sometimes it just doesn’t work

stanleybmanly's avatar

The bottom line is that the current president is not exactly a unifying force for his country in a time of crisis. Actually, that time of crisis part was an unnecessary modifier. @josie ‘s assessment has merit in that we know just what to expect. I mean by now is anyone surprised or disappointed?

Yellowdog's avatar

The Minneapolis police are seriously considering eliminating their police force and remaking something ‘non violent’ to serve in its stead. Maybe a soft spoken dude will go in and say, “Y’know, guys? I really wish you’d get out of here.”

In my city, the City Council is voting to make sure police don’t have riot gear.

Lego is having store owners pull all Lego sets that have police, law enforcement, fire patrol, first responders, or White House themes.

About nine unarmed African Americans are killed per year by police. In my city alone, about six African Americans are killed in violent crime as innocent bystanders, and dozens of African Americans have been killed in riots the past week. Are you sure you want anarchy?

What you might want to consider is, when we have no more police, how will you Democrats enforce your policies on the rest of us?

josie's avatar

As an addendum…
I was not old enough to appreciate it.
But I understand that that Ronald Reagan was unambiguous in his views.
The press and East Coast pinheads ridiculed him, and he broke the back of the Soviet Union.
So people can bitch all day long but there is no guarantee they are right.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Yellowdog We know you absolutely love the guy and his politics, but you do see how bad he has divided your country you are doing it with your last post,
(how will you Democrats enforce your policies on the rest of us?)< your words no working together to find a non violent situation is there?
The POLICE as well as your Orange haired God have to be accountable for their actions and if illegal must pay the price.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Reagan: He was unambiguous in his views, and could still read his lines when he couldn’t remember his own name. They could still trot him out to grin while he couldn’t explain the function of a doorknob. His senility alone prevented a Congress fearful of the revelation of his condition from
nailing him for Iran-contra wherein his testimony would reveal a cardboard cutout the President of the United States. His handlers instead threw the nearly as brain dead Oliver North under the bus in his stead until things blew over. And now we are left with the “legend”.

josie's avatar

And George W. Bush was his Daddy’s son and Barack Obama “checked the box” and transported from Occidental to Harvard.
What’s your point?

stanleybmanly's avatar

My point is that it’s easy to be unambiguous in your views when you no longer can distinguish your wife from a hatrack.

josie's avatar

You’re talking about Joe Biden!

I thought this was about Donald Trump

stanleybmanly's avatar

No someone switched the topic to Ronnie Raygun.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I think that rhetoric, plays a major role in this case.
Perhaps the media, as well, as it displays the most polarized statements.

However.

There is no misquoting, of Trump.

In the case of Charlottesville, where Trumpers had guns, one fired into a crowd, another drove a car into a crowd (resulting in a woman’s death,) Trump seemed reticent, to denounce the right-wingers responsible. Going on to say that there were “fine” people on both sides.
He promotes violence, against those who oppose his point of view. Think of his rallies.

In contrast, he used the word “THUGS,” and “terrorists,” when referring to the rioters (many of whom, lean left, and some whom were not Caucasian.)

He also demonizes many people of color, from many different countries/cultures.

This portrayal, which is self inflicted, is what brings Trump’s detractors, to an easy conclusion.
That he, and perhaps his supporters, are transparently racist….

This Floyd issue, was a great chance for Trump, to show that he was a true leader. Someone who supported unity, was a true patriot, and a defender of ALL Americans…
Yet. He has continued to be divisive, and has exacerbated tensions, whilst also displaying the lack of the ability to be a leader…

I never had high hopes for Trump. However, I did hope that he would surpass my pessimism. I hoped that he would prove me wrong…
Well. He hasn’t…

All Trump has done is reinforce, my opinions/fears, of him being the POTUS….

In an effort to hold the track, of this thread, I will restrain myself, from delving deeper into his pathetic display of leadership…..

I can only hope that this terrible scenario, will land the US, in a better place. I am simply humbled, and awestruck, by the support of the people around not only the US, but around the world. It is not only inspiring, but points to the fact, that the world is watching.
The world knows that such things, are unacceptable.
The world knows that change is needed.
Sadly.
The world knows that our governments, and those who are supposed to protect us, are unreliable.
I say this, with great shame…

But…

As long as the people are willing to stand (or kneel,) for each other, I am given hope.

I am hopeful, for a greater world.

It is obvious that it is the ordinary people, who are the only thing that keeps a check on the powerful, from keeping us powerless…

Trump, is a great example of how much is to be expected, in the fight, for our rights, and our very existence, beside the elite.

If there is to be a chance to change things, it will NOT come from the “haves,” whom rely on the “have nots.”

The changes, will have to come, from us.

Peace n love…....

Zaku's avatar

@josie “I was not old enough to appreciate it.”
-But I understand that that Ronald Reagan was unambiguous in his views.”
“The press and East Coast pinheads ridiculed him, and he broke the back of the Soviet Union.”
“So people can bitch all day long but there is no guarantee they are right.”

I am old enough to appreciate, at the time, that Ronald Reagan did not know what the heck he was talking about half the time he was reading his lines. If you like anything the Reagan administration did, don’t fool yourself that Reagan himself did more than perform for the public.

Ronald Reagan and the administration that used him as a performer/figurehead absolutely did not “break the back” of the Soviet Union. He just talked tough to work his reputation. At most, his administration caused money problems for the Soviets by getting Arab oil prices to tank. But the Soviet Union mainly burned out at the hands of its own awful leadership, and eventually Gorbachev reformed things and let that regime reform and crumble.

Yellowdog's avatar

Uh, @MrGrimm888—you DO realize Trump expedited a Federal Civil rights investigation with the CIA and FBI on the day of the event, and condemned the actions of the officers, don’t you?

And yes, there WERE good people on both sides who were protesting the removal of the Civil War marker commemorating the Battle of Charlottesville. He did NOT say the Klan were very fine people.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Okay I’ll give a one out 20,000 ! SMH

Dutchess_III's avatar

Trump preaches “dominance” because that is a trait he admires (thanks to his abusive father) but does not possess himself…Not naturally, anyway. His money makes him feel like a big, tough dominatior, but as this presidency has shown, in reality he’s just a big, stupid pussy.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@Yellowdog that was the only thing he he did.

Hear the crickets and bunch of paper shuffling, nothing for action to change the cause for the unrest.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

He said they didn’t use tear gas on the protesters outside the white house ,just pepper balls and flash bangs that have the same effect ,BUT NOT tear gas.
Oh no he isn’t escalating the chaos , he is the fucking chaos.

Dutchess_III's avatar

And don’t forget rubber bullets. But NO tear gas.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@Yellowdog .
So. There are NOT “fine” people, on the protester’s side?

And. Surprise. Trump, is still going after the intelligence communities, he already went after?

~Shocking.~

seawulf575's avatar

I guess it comes down to what you hear. I hear President Trump coming down hard on looters and violence. You hear Trump coming down on protesters. Maybe the difference is what your view of a protest should be. George Floyd’s brother supported the protests but condemned the violence. Peaceful protesters have condemned the violence and have stated they are not supportive of it and that it detracts from what they are protesting for. There is a difference to rational human beings. And Trump has stated that exact same sentiment several times. If you look at his “tough guy rhetoric” he is always specific about the looters and violence and the beatings and the killings. But the liberal media doesn’t seem to often condemn those violent acts or differentiate them from peaceful protesters.

Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
Yellowdog's avatar

@Dutchess_III Are you conflating the looters and rioters with the ‘peaceful’ protesters?

As much as you’d like to spin it, there is a world of difference. Thousands of businesses are burned and pillaged of everything, many of them minority businesses. About a hundred have been killed weekly. It sounds to me like you are trying to equate violent destruction of businesses, homes, and property with the peaceful protesters, while at the same time, declaring that Trump is targeting peaceful protesters.

You should focus your hatred of Trump on something less serious—like, the Space Force, or something he may or may not have said about COVID.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Bozo is a pig.

You can put lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig.

mazingerz88's avatar

Bret Stephen’s opinion in the NYT…

—————————

This spring I taught a seminar (via Zoom, of course) at the University of Chicago on the art of political persuasion. We read Lincoln, Pericles, King, Orwell, Havel and Churchill, among other great practitioners of the art. We ended with a study of Donald Trump’s tweets, as part of a class on demagogy.

If the closing subject was depressing, at least the timing was appropriate.

We are in the midst of an unprecedented national catastrophe. The catastrophe is not the pandemic, or an economic depression, or killer cops, or looted cities, or racial inequities. These are all too precedented.

What’s unprecedented is that never before have we been led by a man who so completely inverts the spirit of Lincoln’s Second Inaugural Address.

With malice toward all; with charity for none: eight words that encapsulate everything this president is, does and stands for.

What does one learn when reading great political speeches and writings? That well-chosen words are the way by which past deeds acquire meaning and future deeds acquire purpose. “The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here,” are the only false notes in the Gettysburg Address.

The Battle of Gettysburg is etched in national memory less for its military significance than because Lincoln reinvented the goals of the Civil War in that speech — and, in doing so, reimagined the possibilities of America.

Political writing doesn’t just provide meaning and purpose. It also offers determination, hope and instruction.

In “The Power of the Powerless,” written at one of the grimmer moments of Communist tyranny, Václav Havel laid out why the system was so much weaker, and the individual so much stronger, than either side knew. In his “Fight on the beaches” speech after Dunkirk, Winston Churchill told Britons of “a victory inside this deliverance” — a reason, however remote, for resolve and optimism.

In “Letter From Birmingham Jail,” Martin Luther King Jr., explained why patience was no answer to injustice: “When you have seen hate-filled policemen curse, kick, brutalize, and even kill your black brothers and sisters with impunity … then you will understand why we find it difficult to wait.”

The purpose of Trump’s presidency is to debase, first by debasing the currency of speech. It’s why he refuses to hire reasonably competent speechwriters to craft reasonably competent speeches.

It’s why his communication team has been filled by people like Dan Scavino and Stephanie Grisham and Sarah Sanders.

And it’s why Twitter is his preferred medium of communication. It is speech designed for provocations and put-downs; for making supporters feel smug; for making opponents seethe; for reducing national discourse to the level of grunts and counter-grunts.

That’s a level that suits Trump because it’s the level at which he excels. Anyone who studies Trump’s tweets carefully must come away impressed by the way he has mastered the demagogic arts.

He doesn’t lead his base, as most politicians do. He personifies it. He speaks to his followers as if he were them. He cultivates their resentments, demonizes their opponents, validates their hatreds. He glorifies himself so they may bask in the reflection.

Whatever this has achieved for him, or them, it’s a calamity for us. At a moment when disease has left more than 100,000 American families bereft, we have a president incapable of expressing the nation’s heartbreak.

At a moment of the most bitter racial grief since the 1960s, we have a president who has bankrupted the moral capital of the office he holds.

And at a moment when many Americans, particularly conservatives, are aghast at the outbursts of looting and rioting that have come in the wake of peaceful protests, we have a president who wants to replace rule of law with rule by the gun.

If Trump now faces a revolt by the Pentagon’s civilian and military leadership (both current and former) against his desire to deploy active-duty troops in American cities, it’s because his words continue to drain whatever is left of his credibility as commander in chief.

I write this as someone who doesn’t lay every national problem at Trump’s feet and tries to give him credit when I think it’s due.

Trump is no more responsible for the policing in Minneapolis than Barack Obama was responsible for policing in Ferguson. I doubt the pandemic would have been handled much better by a Hillary Clinton administration, especially considering the catastrophic errors of judgment by people like Bill de Blasio and Andrew Cuomo.

And our economic woes are largely the result of a lockdown strategy most avidly embraced by the president’s critics.

But the point here isn’t that Trump is responsible for the nation’s wounds. It’s that he is the reason some of those wounds have festered and why none of them can heal, at least for as long as he remains in office.

Until we have a president who can say, as Lincoln did in his first inaugural, “We are not enemies, but friends” — and be believed in the bargain — our national agony will only grow worse.

Yellowdog's avatar

Uh—Lincoln was considered divisive for decades, and the press said terrible things about him.

The whoppers in your lengthy post, about Trump being responsible for the nations ills, sound very propagandist. Who do you think is sewing the constant fake stories, vitriol, and rioting?

You lost an election. The economy became robust, and a lot has been revealed about the previous administration using the tools of intelligence to steal an election, accuse the victim, take out an administration, and unseat a duly elected president. Decades from now, students will be analyzing how grossly off the press was from the facts, and the actions taken to remove and imprison an incoming administration before it was even established

seawulf575's avatar

@mazingerz88 You have posted that same thing in several different threads. It is still nothing but an opinion piece. Sorry, it means nothing except you agree with his opinion.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Well @seawulf575 you and @Yellowdog make up stuff and you don’t always have sources (hardly ever) just YOUR opinion.

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Didn’t I just give you something like 6 or 7 sources on a different thread? I gave them to you because @stanleybmanly refuses to give any and you covered for him. So maybe you want to give this same message to him instead of letting him set you up for the fall?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Well you do make stuff up and use right wing websites a source….

mazingerz88's avatar

Lincoln was not a cheap asshole like trump. When will you trump fans ever get it? But you do get it, you just out of sheer stubborness think he gives a shit about you. Lol

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie If you care to check, I gave you sources from ABC and CNN on the last batch. But really, rather than negating a source because you don’t like it, you need to start discussing the merits of the substance it presents. Or maybe you should let @stanleybmanly support his own blatherings?

mazingerz88's avatar

( Re trump and Lincoln here is Blumenthal for the Washington Post )

—————

When President Trump ventured out of the White House, where he and the people around him are regularly tested for the coronavirus despite his having thwarted testing on a national level, he took a safely distanced seat near the marble statue of Abraham Lincoln and held forth before helpful Fox News interlocutors on his own mightiness, his infallibility and his grievances.

It can safely be assumed that Trump has never read a book on Lincoln, or any other president, but the inescapable looming presence on Sunday triggered his tiresome neediness. “We never had a more beautiful set than this, did we?” he observed. Then he remarked: “They always said Lincoln — nobody got treated worse than Lincoln. I believe I am treated worse.”

Trump’s grandiosity often betrays a bitter and pathetic undercurrent of self-pity. Usually, he plays his victimization as a crowd-pleaser at his rallies, appealing to the shared sense of persecution at the hands of assorted demonic elites, the “lamestream media” and the “deep state.” Lincoln occupies an awkward place in this paranoid firmament.

Trump knows that Lincoln is considered “great.” That has always been a besetting problem. Trump explained that his appearance at the Lincoln Memorial was unique, making it truly “great,” and that the “beautiful set” overshadowed Lincoln, who he conceded was still “great,” though for reasons that went unmentioned.

“I don’t think it’s ever been done, what we’re doing tonight, here,” Trump said, “and I think it’s great for the American people to see, this is a great work of art, aside from the fact that that was a great man, this is a great work of art.”

But as “great” as Lincoln might have been, Trump, with his martyr envy, has felt a compulsion to diminish him whenever he raises his name. Even murdered, Lincoln was treated better than Trump. Again, Trump wins.

“I’ve always said I can be more presidential than any president in history except for Honest Abe Lincoln, when he’s wearing the hat,” Trump said, free-associating last year at the U.S. Mission to the United Nations. “That’s tough, that’s tough. That was tough to beat.”

Trump has expressed his idolatry of Robert E. Lee (“Whether you like it or not, he was one of the great generals”), appreciating both Lee’s towering monument in Charlottesville (“the beauty”) and its white nationalist defenders (“very fine people”). “So, Robert E. Lee was a great general and Abraham Lincoln developed a phobia, he couldn’t beat Robert E. Lee,” Trump told a rally in 2018, adding that Lincoln was “going crazy,” until somehow he discovered Ulysses S. Grant, “and Lincoln said, ‘I don’t care if he’s an alcoholic, frankly, give me six or seven more just like him.’”

Such is the history of the Civil War according to Trump.

Trump has claimed that his poll numbers are higher than Lincoln’s. “Wow, highest Poll Numbers in the history of the Republican Party,” he tweeted. “That includes Honest Abe Lincoln.” There were no polls in the 1860s. But on his 2019 visit to Britain, Trump told the Sun tabloid: “You know, a poll just came out that I am the most popular person in the history of the Republican Party. Beating Lincoln. I beat our Honest Abe.”

Trump’s self-celebration has had a persuasive effect on present-day Republicans, who, according to an Economist-YouGov poll that appeared after Trump’s projection, favored Trump over Lincoln 53 percent to 47 percent. Trump told a rally in Dallas, “Here deep in the heart of Texas,” where he believed he was invincible, “Abraham Lincoln could not win Texas. … Honest Abe, couldn’t do it.”

Unlike Trump, Lincoln did lose Texas. The state did not allow his name on the ballot and then seceded. Trump was right: Lincoln’s a loser in Texas.

Lincoln’s predecessor James Buchanan might provide the better analog for today. In manner and experience, Buchanan was Trump’s opposite — dignified, polite, abhorring vulgarity.

But his White House was a hive of treason, with his trusted Southern cabinet members plotting secession. Confronted with catastrophe, Buchanan blamed the crisis on antislavery “agitation” and declared that neither the president nor the Congress possessed the constitutional authority to oppose the dissolution of the Union.

Trump, echoing Buchanan, similarly abdicates his responsibility in the face of the pandemic. Effectively cutting the states loose, he stated that the federal government is a mere “backup,” infamously declaring, “I don’t take responsibility at all.”

While Buchanan’s passivity was feckless, Trump’s is both feckless and cynical. After a lengthy period of inaction, denying the science of the contagious plague, Trump has left the states to fend largely for themselves; in jacked-up markets they madly pursue the necessary masks, personal protective equipment, ventilators and other medical supplies.

He has threatened governors of large Northern states that if they do not follow his policies on matters such as immigration he will withhold aid, the same sort of crude blackmailing he tried with the president of Ukraine. “We’d want certain things, also,” he said.

In the meantime, Trump has blocked comprehensive national testing, advocated quack remedies, fired and squelched public health officers, refused to authorize the full use of the Defense Production Act and prevented oversight by an inspector general and the Congress to avert corruption.

He has substituted incitement to subvert his own federal guidelines and state policies on public health safety with his demagogic encouragement of gun-toting white nationalist demonstrators carrying Confederate flags and anti-Semitic placards.

Trump called them “very good people.” “LIBERATE MICHIGAN” he tweeted. In another: “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!” Yet another: “LIBERATE MINNESOTA.”

“How long, in the government of a God, great enough to make and maintain this Universe, shall there continue knaves to vend, and fools to gulp, so low a piece of demagougeism as this.” So said Lincoln in 1859, arguing against the view that the federal government did not have the power to prohibit slavery in the territories.

Federal power, to Lincoln, was never “a backup.” The purpose of the war, he explained in 1864, was “restoring the national authority over the whole national domain.” To that end, he devised every instrument of national mobilization he could to overcome the crisis.

Lincoln summoned into existence virtually from scratch the largest army in the world. He fired incompetent and corrupt officials and replaced them with efficient and honest men such as Secretary of War Edwin Stanton and Quartermaster General Montgomery Meigs to construct the largest supply chains ever.

He nationalized the railroads and the telegraph. He imposed an income tax and built a system of modern financing. He signed “An Act to Encourage Immigration,” which he stated was a “source of national wealth and strength.”

He created the Department of Agriculture to foster scientific farming and husbandry — and the land grant colleges. He sponsored the Transcontinental Railroad to the Pacific. He authorized the U.S. Sanitary Commission, the first public health service, a public-private partnership as we would call it today, enlisting the skills of doctors and nurses, and building hospitals.

He passed the Homestead Act, providing land to western settlers. And he signed the Emancipation Proclamation and engineered enactment of the 13th Amendment abolishing slavery, the greatest elimination of a category of private property in human history.

Lincoln traced the emergence of the idea enshrined in the Declaration of Independence that “all men are created equal,” the foundation of his political philosophy, to the early diffusion of scientific progress. He was the only president to hold a patent for an invention — a method of lifting boats through locks.

Though he did not read Charles Darwin’s “On the Origin of Species,” he read journal articles about it and was convinced of the validity of evolution. Lincoln, the lawyer, believed above all in facts and evidence. In his first great speech, which brought him out of his political wilderness in 1854, against the extension of slavery into the territories opened by the Kansas-Nebraska Act, he said, “Let the facts be the answer to the argument.”

Lincoln’s intense quest for knowledge, his insistence on hard facts and evidence, his respect for science and the scientific method, and his inquisitiveness about how things really worked never faltered.

The patent lawyer and the great war leader were one and the same. The man of scientific advancement was responsible for a great leap in the industrial revolution and in technological innovation.

Lincoln chartered the National Academy of Sciences. Throughout the war, he frequently sought the advice of Joseph Henry, the first secretary of the Smithsonian Institution, the nation’s leading scientific center.

By May of 1862, Lincoln had built the telegraph office inside the War Department next to the White House and commissioned the U.S. Telegraph Service. It was the first Situation Room and the first branch of the U.S. government based on electronics.

Lincoln personally approved the most significant projects down to test firing repeating rifles that would prove decisive on the Gettysburg battlefield, in effect acting as the chief of ordnance. Lincoln’s most fateful intervention into the development of technology with the most far-reaching consequences was his personal approval of the invention of a new type of warship, the Monitor ironclad, which required construction of a novel system of mass production of its prototype.

Lincoln maintained oversight of the process that helped spur a new phase of the industrial revolution and laid the basis of the explosive growth in manufacturing that would make the United States into the world leader.

Lincoln, of course, did more than all that. He gave moral purpose to the cause of the nation, elevated by his call to the “better angels of our nature,” and led a people bowed in mourning.

In his curious efforts to measure himself to Lincoln’s greatness, Trump has spoken at the Lincoln Memorial three times. On the eve of his inauguration, at a concert there, he declared, “This hasn’t been done before” and carped about critics of his election, “They didn’t want to give us credit.”

(Many presidents, in fact, have appeared at the Lincoln Memorial, including at concerts.) On the Fourth of July last year, Trump recounted that the Continental Army “took over the airports” from the British.

On his most recent visit, he placed himself above Lincoln by virtue of his “worse” treatment. “I am greeted with a hostile press the likes of which no president has ever seen,” he said. “The closest would be that gentleman right up there.” Close, but second. Trump finished first.

Inside the Lincoln Memorial, on the wall beside the statue, are engraved the brief words of the Gettysburg Address, delivered at the dedication of the cemetery there, if Trump could grasp them, now with the edge of a prescient rebuke, that through the greatest American sacrifice the nation “shall have a new birth of freedom — and that government of the people, by the people and for the people shall not perish from this earth.”

________________

Dutchess_III's avatar

@Yellowdog of course Lincoln was considered divisive! That’s a total “duh” comment. It’s the story that history will tell that will either justify or condemn trump.
Lincoln was justified.
I believe history will show that trump was nothing but a fat, rich buffoon.

Yellowdog's avatar

Considering how much goes on on all levels of government that you don’t seem to know about or discuss, I think not.

What will be known is, what was actually found or documented, compared to what was reported, and how the nation responded.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^Mesmerized and enchanted with trump’s anti-goverment BS. How low can you trump fans go?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

It still amazes me how dedicated and loyal you are to the Don Father.^^^
You do know he doesn’t give a shit about you, things like showing no emotion when Floyd was killed, another he has given the victims of Covid19 less than 5 minutes of air time condolences,Lies about having to go to the bunker just their for an inspection, uh sure.
He can’t take the responsability for anything other than when the stock market does well, blames Obama still after almost 4 years. your loyalty is truly amazing just the Don Father does NOT deserve it.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Hey @Yellowdog Does not care about anything except his fat ass and how he looks on camera !

Here what he thinks a about swabs used for testing of COVID-19 Fucked a whole days worth of production because he doesn’t want to wear a mask, because it would mess up his hair and rub off the orange make-up

Dutchess_III's avatar

Biden is scheduled to visit with Floyd’s family in the next couple of days. He’s doing what any decent president would do. I wonder if trump is going to barge past him and get to them first.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Trump doesn’t have the skill or ability to listen to anyone that doesn’t praise him and blow sunshine up his ass 24/7.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Typical narcisset conversation. ”…but he just kept, like, pushing me off, like ‘I don’t want to hear what you’re talking about.’

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie You seem obsessed with this idea of the President not wearing a mask. Okay, so you think everyone should wear them? So…where do you stand on Wolf Blitzer? Rachel Maddow? Jake Tapper? Chris Cuomo? Don Lemon? Brian Stelter? Anderson Cooper? Andrea Mitchell? Chris Hayes? Joe Scarborough? The entire panel of The View? What are their excuses for not wearing masks? They are around the entire film crew as well as the production staff. In some cases they sit with guests or other news people less than 6’ away. And there was even one case of CNN’s Kaitlin Collins taking off her mask when she thought the cameras were off. You know…the reporter that tries to keep track of who is and isn’t wearing masks and making a big deal of it? Yeah…sort of like a female version of you. But you never want to hold these people to the same standard. Why is that?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575 Let’s not forget all the FOX anchors as well as long as we are going down this path.

Dutchess_III's avatar

If only for politeness and to set a good example, yes. However, trump is clueless. We all know that.

It’s kind of like respectfully bowing your head while someone leads a group in prayer when you’re an atheist. It would be disrespectful and unnecessarily rude not to.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

He was in a FUCKING sterile manufacturing plant. Just like the CDC lab Bozo was in an a sterile area, another photo op for his reality TV show next year from a bunker in Florida.

You really don’t understand sterile do you? ? ? Your hero doesn’t either !!

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 If you truly believe that everyone should be wearing a mask, then you should be holding everyone to the same standard. I’m not of that frame of mind so I’m not calling for these people to wear masks. But if I were, it would include ALL news people as well. But you and your liberal buddies that always try to find fault with conservatives but refuse to hold liberals to the same standard. So I purposely showed the liberals that are violating the exact same standard you want to hold the POTUS to. Oh! And how about Trudeau? He isn’t always wearing a mask. I notice you don’t hold him to the same standard. Why is that?

Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
Tropical_Willie's avatar

FUCKING STERILE PLANT

3% on a month product trashed for photo op. Is there something common going on?

Maybe the next photo op will be an ICU with people dying on ventilators, Bozo with his red power tie and no mask.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I worked a Habitat function yesterday. It was a garden party. Said garden was in the back yard of a local doctor.
I was in charge of taking the “suggested $20 donation.” Everyone had on a mask, so I donned one too. The only person who didn’t wear a mask was the doctor!

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Ever worked in a lab? I have. I know all about sterile and cross contamination and all that sort of stuff. And know what? I’ve also had people do photo ops in my lab. They were good about asking where they could film, what could be shown, etc. I’m willing to bet Trump didn’t just show up out of the blue and barge in to film. That’s not how things work. His Secret Service would have reached out to the lab supervision/management to establish a time and to set up some way to get the photo op done at a bare minimum. So while you are raving about things you really don’t have a firm grasp on, you really need to take a breath and count to 10 to think a little instead of believing solely what your propagandists feed you. Speaking of…you offer no source!!! you never do!!! Isn’t that the same sort of garbage you always try to feed me?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

You really are not on your game today Wulfie, personally I could care less about the mask thing, but as @Tropical_Willie pointed out Trump was in a sterile part of the plant and wouldn’t wear one, I am kinda surprised they let him in there with out one.
You brought up those damn Lib/tard anchors not wearing a mask but left out your heros I thought you should include them as well right?
And back on the mask thing I make a point of avoiding large crowds but if I did have to go into one until this pandemic is over I would wear one.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 soooo….Trump at a podium is not a large crowd. Why would he need one there? After all, isn’t that what the complaint is? As for the lab…please…hold your buddy @Tropical_Willie accountable for showing source material. After all, don’t you want me to support my claims? And don’t I? Again…hold everyone to the same standard. As I just told him, I have worked in a lab and have had upper echelon come in for photo ops. Often we set up some area that is safe for them that looks like they are “in a lab”. But they don’t just barge in. I’ve even made them wear safety glasses or at least have the plant manager give the ok that they don’t have to follow that rule for that one event. Labs have all sort of hazards beyond being “sterile” and losing that status. As I told Willie, I seriously doubt Trump just showed up and walked in.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

It was at the Honeywell plant in Arizona.

LOOK UP AT THE TOP !!!!

Hey @Yellowdog Does not care about anything except his fat ass and how he looks on camera !

Here’s what he thinks a about swabs used for testing of COVID-19 Fucked a whole days worth of production because he doesn’t want to wear a mask, because it would mess up his hair and rub off the orange make-up

seawulf575's avatar

Ahh…I can’t read your citation because it wants to send me ads. But here’s a thought for you: Does it actually say he “Fucked a whole days worth of production because he doesn’t want to wear a mask because it would mess up his hair and rub off the orange make-up”? I don’t think so. Does it mean that they put production on hold to support his photo op? Maybe. I could see how having the POTUS would interrupt production. Many people might have to be removed from the area for security reasons. Testing would probably be halted since it might be contaminated if he was in that area. But that is a far cry from the reasons you ascribe to the entire thing.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
MrGrimm888's avatar

In my mind, there are three factors. In regards to the mask.

1. Projection of power.
If you look at Trump’s (and some other leaders) behavior, it’s about appearance.
Let’s remember an example. During the famous solar eclipse, Trump viewed it (from a photo op friendly place,) without any eye protection.
Now. We see him not wearing the recommended mask, during a pandemic.
The psychological affect on lesser minds, is that Trump is more powerful than ordinary people. Immune, due to his strength and genius, from things that would hurt mere human beings…

2. False sense of superiority.

As Trump has overcome the adversity, of being born to a uber wealthy family, having access to the highest level of education (despite not being deserving,) being able to dodge the draft, and inheriting hundreds of millions of dollars, and yet still managing to do well in life, he has a very high opinion of himself.
He has all the telling signs, of a full blown narcissistic personality. And he displays the signs as a peacock, proudly presents it’s feathers…

3. Ignorance, and/or stupidity.

None of us, are born with information. So. Ignorance, is a forgivable human trait.
However, as we grow, we learn. We learn from others, and observations/experiences.
Sometimes. We even learn, who not to learn from. Or. At least we learn what not, to do…
Then. (And only then, can we be judged by our actions, given that we are aware of the ramifications*...
Not all of us, have the luxury of learning, from the best teachers, or life experiences.
Now.
This is where all three variables, overlap.
Trump, has had access to the highest quality of education. Skipping a few steps. He has, as POTUS, access to great advisors. Advisors, whom likely told him to wear eye protection, and a mask, etc…
But.
Trump’s weaknesses, are on proud display.

He wishes to project his power.

His narcissism, pushes his display, of overconfidence.

His stupidity, further shows, that he trusts himself, over the advice of those who are more learned than he is….

If/when, he is reelected, it would not shock me, to see him accompanying the first Space Force mission, without a spacesuit….....

In some ways, I am pleased that Trump, doesn’t wear a mask, or protect himself (as he is advised to.)

We can discuss, whom should be heeding advice, from those in the know. But. I’m concerned about those who think Trump, as our nation’s leader (uuuggh,) is someone who others should follow, as an example.
Those people, will likely hurt/injure/kill, those who do learn…..

@Seawulf575 , is right for asking for equal condemnation, of others, in the public eye.
But. A true leader, leads, by example…

I am of the opinion that this is the heart, of this discussion.

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie My point was that you took a photo op and assigned all sorts of things to it that just aren’t there. You even provided the thoughts and other descriptions that just aren’t there. In fact, I have looked deeper into your wild concerns. Here’s what I found:

“A representative of Puritan Medical Products did not say explicitly that the action was due to Trump’s lack of protective gear during his tour on Friday, but no other explanation was offered. The swabs are being tossed as manufacturers struggle to keep up with demand for the critical for COVID-19 testing components.

“The running of the factory machines… will only occur when the president is touring the facility floor,” the company’s marketing manager, Virginia Temple, told the newspaper. “Swabs produced during that time will be discarded.”

Temple did not specify how many swabs would be thrown out.” (source)

So let’s see…“A representative of Puritan Medical Products did not say explicitly that the action was due to Trump’s lack of protective gear during his tour on Friday, but no other explanation was offered.” That is an assumption. It isn’t a fact that was the reason. I can think of several other reasons for tossing them that have to do with manufacturing parameters instead of contamination. And the scenes I saw didn’t show a sterile lab condition. It was a work area. But let’s continue dissecting your fears and claims!
“The running of the factory machines… will only occur when the president is touring the facility floor,” the company’s marketing manager, Virginia Temple, told the newspaper. “Swabs produced during that time will be discarded.” Now this implies that, despite the fear mongering by HuffPo, the factory isn’t “struggling” to keep up with production. They weren’t even running their machines. They only started them for the President’s walk through. As I suspected, it was for the optics and not for production. With the machines just starting, they may not have been set up correctly or allowed to warm up or any number of things so anything produced at that time would be suspect…unable to have quality ensured…so they would be tossed. But it doesn’t mention cleanliness or cross-contamination as a reason. And to be honest, it doesn’t make a bit of sense to say it was because of cross-contamination. The POTUS was not reaching into machines, he wasn’t hanging out by them, spitting into them, etc…there would be no way for cross-contamination to occur. Breathing? If the machines are producing something that could be contaminated by a person standing by it, it would have a special ventilation system that would provide an envelope of purified higher pressure air.
So once again we see that your claims are garbage, produced by fear-mongering liberal MSM. Opinions presented as facts, etc. And I even saw why they wanted to do that. The factory and its workers were excited to have President Trump visit. They liked it. And God knows the MSM will try squelching anything that shows Trump in a good light.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Trump in a good light is equivalent to a cold snap in hell. The maskless dumbbell parading his insufferable idiocy around a factory floor in his perpetual race to embarrass his country and disgrace his office.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Trump is a pussy.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^He’s a rare species. An Orange Pussy.~

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