What do you think Trump’s “Patriotic Curriculum” will be like?

Lies, lies…
And more lies.

I hope we never have to find out.

Sounds like what I learned in school. All about the great things America did. Like how WE won WWII.

Well according to Trump the 1918 Virus did end world war 2,who can argue with that superior logic?

@anniereborn

Funnily enough, we didn’t learn from the mistakes that we DID do. Almost seems like it was because we were too busy thinking we could do no wrong….

It’s the mythical America that ignores the humanity of minorities and women that was taught when Dump was young.

It could be interesting. When I was growing up, we were taught all about slavery and its evils, Japanese internment camps and the like. We were taught about things that led up to the Great Depression. We were taught about the different views of WWI and WWII. But we were also taught about the views, attitudes, and efforts that went into creating one of the greatest nations on the planet. We learned about how we did help other nations when they needed it. Now, I was well out of school when Iraq happened, but I hope that any lessons concerning that are at least fair. I think invading Iraq was wrong, but there were some supposed reasons for the invasion. I think kids need to learn the good and the bad that have gone into making the country they see around them today. But they also need to see that world for the nut house it has become.

The bells and sirens should go off merely at the mention of anything so sinister as “patriotic curriculum”. The bottom line is that the great missteps and mistakes we make as a nation are only possible because our actual history and civics curriculum is both woefully slanted and usually ignored. In fact the shortfall in civic education in this country is if anything, monumental in scope. We pay an excruciating price for our ignorance, and that ignorance results in everything from Vietnam to bafflement as to why there are currently people in the streets, and cops shooting black folks. The scope of it is absolutely breathtaking. Just consider that it has taken some 500 years after the fact that we are now permitted to look at the negative aspects to the arrival of Columbus in America.

White wash history, even though he even stated himself that America was in the wrong in those wars so we shouldn’t hold other nations accountable for what they do in their wars.
Come to think of it. He will probably do away with history and people can only learn about things from the time he was President forward.
He will probably call it MAGA history. The rest he will probably consider a waste of time.
And I’m sure we will have a religious Christian indocrination class.

Comrades, prepare for reeducation!

Actual truth! History of the United States of America.

Yes comrade, good! Actual truth from the administration that brought us “alternative facts”! Very, very good. Bigly good!

The Three Points of Trump Patriotism:

war is peace
freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength

I find it funny that for decades, the schools have been really pushing the leftist opinions on things and none of you on the left see that as alternate teachings or rewriting history. Yet as soon as someone wants to push back, you all seem to be in a panic.

@seawulf575 Yeah, Texas has really been pushing the leftist opinions.

the schools have been really pushing the leftist opinions

For example…?

I want to know the leftist positions also that are in schools.

For ten years I’ve seen Republicans accuse public school teachers and college professors of revealing their own politics to students and delivering left brainwashing. Republican friends of mine who went to school with me have said this not just strangers online. When I ask them which teacher did anything close to that in our school or now is doing it in theirs child’s school they have no answer.

It’s bullshit. It’s not left teaching in public school, it’s that the religious right wants religion in schools. They want public funds to pay for religious schools. They want to weaken and get rid of public schools so religious schools fill their place.

Ironically, the Republicans are the ones most forcefully asking for schools to open during covid, a weird twist I’m not quite sure about.

Nice answer @JLeslie , I also would like to know what leftist positions are being pushed?

@Call_Me_Jay, @JLeslie, and @SQUEEKY2 Really?!? You are playing that dumb? Okay, let’s begin. Most recently, the 1619 Project has been taught in schools. And there was crickets from most of the news outlets. But let’s dig deeper, shall we? You could also go to the ZEP (Zinn Education Project) and find such indoctrinations as this:
“Deportations on Trial: Mexican Americans During the Great Depression” begins, “The Trump administration’s war on immigrants has been nothing short of horrifying in its scope.”

“Taking the Fight Against White Supremacy into Schools” presents as “racist” President Trump’s predictions about the snowballing effects in taking down a statue of Robert E. Lee.

“Teaching More Civics Will Not Save Us from Donald Trump,” by curriculum writer Ursula Wolfe-Rocca, takes issue with traditional civics, i.e., teaching the Constitution as “holy text.” For Wolfe-Rocca, “the evil of … the white supremacist, nativist, misogynist language we have heard spill from the lips of Donald Trump resonates with the 39 percent who steadfastly support him precisely because it has deep roots in U.S. history and politics” — a history of “land theft, genocide, slavery, and the disenfranchisement of women and people of color.”

Any of this sound familiar? No? Okay…I’ll continue. Let me know when you’ve had enough to admit you are either ignorant or are part of the problem.

How about radical environmentalism in grade schools? This includes making kids as young as 4 years old effectively eco-nazis. And the schools teach it in every class. Ever try to work environmentalism into a math class?

Sex-Ed classes that give graphic cards to 10 and 11 year olds telling them how to masturbate? To not listen to their parents about sex and to trust, rather, to their teachers and school health care staff?

How about tracking students with RFID chips?

Let’s not forget about that evil Christianity and any outward signs of a child believing. But teaching Islamic prayer is okay.

The list goes on and on. But I know you don’t want to see any harm at all…you don’t want to admit it is all indoctrination that has been going.

Many of the complaints center around the teaching of history, though not just history, though invariably the teaching of the humanities, with the increasing role of identity politics and social justice in these subjects. Re. history, the idea is that children are taught a Howard Zinn-like view that the history of America is a history of oppression, that slavery and genocide are the foundation of this nation and that white people as a whole are guilty of and responsible for these evils. It’s a preoccupation with the negative and I think reinforces social stratification in society and the message that the “oppressed” classes cannot succeed because the system is inherently against them. There’s nothing wrong with teaching the bad stuff, but it can’t be the only focus. Just as it’s wrong to whitewash history into the story of mythical flawless benevolent founding fathers who conquered the savage natives and gave black people their freedom after the Civil War out of the kindness of their hearts, it’s also wrong (in my view) to frame the history of America primarily around oppression.

I have a problem with the word “patriotic” in this context because it sounds like white-washing. I have no idea what Trump means by that and I’m not sure he does yet either. If he means a re-emphasis on the good in American history alongside the bad, I can support that. I just do not want to see anything glossed over.

Now, there are certain things that the right will call “indoctrination” that I do not view as such. For example, when I had sex ed (and this was in the liberal Bay Area), homosexuality was not even mentioned once, but I support talking about it, viz. simply acknowledging the existence of LGBT people. Some right-wingers can’t stand even that.

(I started writing this response before @seawulf575‘s appeared. I know some of the content is the same).

@Demosthenes Exactly! As I stated, when I was taught, we learned about the good and the bad. It wasn’t whitewashed but wasn’t focused on only the negatives either. It was balanced. I think this country had done amazing things even though there are dark areas in our past. Take slavery for an example. Today, we would say slavery is horrible and we would be right. When people first started coming to this land from across the sea, slavery was more acceptable around the world. Doesn’t make it right, but does put it into a bit of perspective. Today, the narrative is that whites are bad, that they are the source of all evil, that they all hate blacks and always have, etc, etc, etc. But in less than 100 years of being an official country, we fought a war amongst ourselves. It was a war in which over 600,000 people…mostly white people…died. Half of those that died were white people fighting to stop slavery. And we were one of the first major nation on the planet that looked at slavery as being bad. So much of the negative being pushed today is just wrong. We, as a nation, had something wrong, but took the initiative to set it right even though it cost many lives. But unless you learn both the event and the lessons, you aren’t learning anything at all…you are being indoctrinated.
@Demosthenes and you are right that homosexuality should be discussed….for the exact same reasons as the lessons from history need to be discussed. But it should be done in a way so as to shame anyone either for being LGBT or for NOT being LGBT. It should be done to point out that it is out there. And in the end, we are all people.

If there are schools that are using texts that are slanted in how they present history then that needs to be corrected. I really don’t know all the things cited above, but I don’t doubt there are issues in public schools that should be addressed. We are a huge nation, and it is easy to cherry pick examples of left and right wing propaganda in our schools, but mostly I think most schools do their best to not be biased.

Let’s just fix it when we see a problem and not turn it into political wars.

I don’t understand calling the curriculum “patriotic.” I consider myself very patriotic. I believe children should be taught about the founding of our nation, our laws, our system of checks and balances, and also what other nations are like. My hope is with that information they feel patriotic to the United States of America. The trick is the US needs to live up to its promise or the patriotism won’t be there.

@JLeslie I think what Trump is proposing IS an effort at correcting the problems. And that is why there is so much angst on the left about it. I agree with everything you stated as to what should be taught. But you are making assumptions and the devil is in the details. You want the kids to be taught about the founding of the nation. But which founding? The one where whites are evil, were doing nothing but taking what they wanted by force and it was the blacks that did everything to make the country what it is? Or the one where people came here for a number of reasons that ranged from persecution at home to a chance at a new fortune? Likewise the laws and the checks and balances. Do those lessons look like “Hate Trump” or do they look like what is supposed to be the law? To me, it should all be facts…not viewpoints, not opinions…facts. Tell the story of the good and the bad. But it should stress concepts such as honor, commitment, and responsibility.

@seawulf575 Let’s go back. You cited teaching and writing the Islamic prayer and an excuse of teaching calligraphy. Where I lived in TN some schools were still teaching the Christian Bible in literature class. Both are wrong as a mandatory class. Do we agree? I actually am fine with elective comparative religion class in high school.

The case of the converted Christian student trying to convert other students, did he win his case in court? That is really tricky to me. I feel children should be able to pray in school, but you are getting into prosthelytizing and I do have a problem with that. Are you ok with a child bringing the Quran to school and trying to convert their peers? The church is using children to pass out their bible and religion, because the adults aren’t allowed to do it on school campus.

The child who drew Jesus on the cross with his eyes x’d out. I would not send the child straight home, but I would want to know why he drew it. The crucifixion is violent. I assume the child was just drawing what he had seen, but it’s odd to me that it’s normal for 5 year olds to see that depiction over and over again. If it was anything but the story of Jesus would you want your child shown a person nailed to a cross repeatedly?

As far as the chip, it’s in their shirt. These are very little children; Pre-school. I have my husband’s location (his phone’s location) in my phone, and my dad and my sister. This is just BS fear mongering that ties in with that whole Q messaging about Gates and vaccines.

The sex-ed article I couldn’t read because I don’t have my password handy. I would have to read the detail. As far as I know parents need to sign a waiver for sex ed. A lot of adults give wrong information about sex, which might be the don’t listen to your parents part, I don’t know. 10–11 might be young for masturbation but by 12–13 most kids are starting to get surging hormones. Boys especially figure out at a young age that touching themselves feels good. I don’t know how specific the school is getting.

As far as the 1619 project, I read up on it, and it sounds like it is a perspective that is presented, but not the sole history lesson. White explorers are still going to be given credit. Our founding fathers I’m sure still get credit for the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, etc. White industrialists, white immigrants, white scientists and engineers who helped build America. All of the detail I hope is being taught in older grades. I’m not in favor of teaching about slavery or segregation in elementary school.

By the time I graduated high school I knew lots of Indians died and Black slaves were brutalized and about segregation. I would say there could have been more teaching about women and minorities who made great discoveries and strides in history, but I did learn about many of them I’m happy to say. I didn’t even think about in terms of race or gender at the time. I’m not sure if some states weren’t presenting women and other minorities in their history and science classes? Parts of the country teach the civil war as having nothing to do with slavery; that’s wrong and destructive. Do you agree?

I don’t agree with bringing Trump into it except as a discussion in a government or political science class where the teacher stays neutral.

As far as I know, Republicans usually don’t like the idea of the federal government being in the business of education, they always argue education should be local. So which is it that you want? Local or federal? Only federal on the subjects you like?

@JLeslie When the schools jump all over any example of Christianity in school because of the push from the left but then the Islamic prayer is not only accepted but defended by the same people, that is an example of leftist indoctrination.
This carries over to the example of the child discussing his conversion with friends. If you read the article, NONE of the friends or their parents had any complaints with the child and he was doing it on his own time…not during class for example. And he wasn’t trying to convert them, he was just excited and sharing. He brought his bible to school and, again, didn’t let it interfere at all with class. And he wasn’t “passing them out”. He just had it to read as far as I can tell. So to persecute him is nothing more than leftist attacks on religion. I have no problem with any child bringing a bible or a Quran or any other religious text to school. I don’t think it is anyone else’s issue. To punish him for that is ideological censorship and an attack on his First Amendment rights. The school was not pushing him to spread Christianity nor setting a specific area aside for him to carry on prayer sessions so really, there is no “separation of Church and State” issue. To start with, that phrase is a made up construct of the left. It is not spelled out anywhere. It is a bastardized interpretation of the First Amendment where it states that the government shall not create a law respecting an establishment of religion.
Drawing a picture of Jesus might be perfectly normal, depending on his homelife. You see the crucifixion as being violent, and it was. But it Jesus on the cross has also become a symbol of hope and love. According to Christians, Jesus died on the cross for our sins so that he might open the way for us to reach the Father. That is one heck of a show of love. But the initial reaction when a child draws Jesus on the cross is to toss him out of school and require he gets a psychological evaluation?!? That is leftist reaction all the way. And this is a 2nd grader. And his parents were furious. This is a PERFECT example of leftist indoctrination….attack organized religion, destroy the family importance or structure…all good Marxist goals! And if it traumatizes the child enough, they don’t care…they see it as a win.
The chipping of the students is just a normalization of government tracking. Yeah, they were young students. So let me ask…when you were that young and at school, how much of a chance was there that you were suddenly going to get lost and be wandering around town? Didn’t the school keep an eye on you? They actually admit it is to help track their movements. Why? Can’t they keep 2nd graders controlled without this? And if they can’t why in God’s name are they being allowed anywhere near our children?
For the Sex-ed article, let me give you the first paragraph. And keep in mind, this is from the NYT:
IMAGINE you have a 10— or 11-year-old child, just entering a public middle school. How would you feel if, as part of a class ostensibly about the risk of sexually transmitted diseases, he and his classmates were given “risk cards” that graphically named a variety of solitary and mutual sex acts? Or if, in another lesson, he was encouraged to disregard what you told him about sex, and to rely instead on teachers and health clinic staff members?”
There is a parental “opt-out” available, but it only covers discussions on contraception/birth control. The rest of the class is mandatory. Again…this is leftist goals in action…especially trying to replace parents and family with government.
The 1619 Project is an effort to rewrite history. Well, let’s change that…it is an effort to stress slavery as one of the key points of our nation’s history. Stress the negative. I have no problem with basically a quick discussion about how long slaves were on this continent. But that isn’t the sole purpose or focus of the founding of our nation. It should not be taught as THE historical view.
As for the focus…state of federal…of education, let me start by reminding you I am a registered independent. But I understand your point. I personally think education needs to be in the state category…along with most of the things that the Feds are entangled in now. I’m not keen on a national push for ANYTHING having to do with education. But that being said…that isn’t where we are right now. For decades now, the Feds have taken on the role of being a controlling force in education. And that has led to much leftist indoctrination. So to correct that wrong, they need to correct their efforts. But it is an interesting question. Of course the opposite also applies. I thought most Democrats and leftists like the big centralized government controlling all aspects of things including education. So which is it? Is it only great when it is pushing the narrative and indoctrination the way you want or all the time?

My position on religion in public schools as far as the teaching of it goes is that it should not exceed the “descriptive” aspect of the descriptive/prescriptive dichotomy, i.e. it is valuable for children to learn about the world’s major religions, but they should not be taught what to believe (that is the domain of private religious schools). Additionally, children can express their religious beliefs in school as long as doing so does not interfere with class lessons or harass other students (the latter being a general rule that applies to any student behavior, not just religious expression). So the examples given are hard to construe as problems worthy of suspending students. As long as teachers and students are not leading the class in prayer or treating students badly for their beliefs, what is the issue?

As for sex ed, when I was in school sex ed was primarily biological: we learned what sex was and how a baby is created. We also learned about puberty and what the changes to our bodies would consist of. Masturbation was mentioned only as something that is common and normal, especially for pubescent teenagers. Sex ed should be as neutral as possible and should not teach any specific values in regard to sex (e.g. sex before marriage is wrong, don’t listen to your parents) nor does it need to go into graphic detail about sexual preferences or actions (e.g. “this is how you masturbate”, anal sex is a good way to not get pregnant). It’s not that hard to avoid controversy.

It’ll be strongly propagandized towards “Keep America White Beautiful”.

@seawulf575 I feel like you are seeing red in my response. I don’t think school should teach Quran or Christian Bible. One and not the other is hypocrisy. In a comparative religion class hopefully it is delivered without bias.

My niece and nephew had kids in their school inviting them to Christian socials and talking about the Bible and if you don’t think it isn’t a purposeful attempt to convert you are in denial! If a newly converted Muslim girl brought the Quran to school and was excited and explaining her new religion to classmates are you ok with it? If she was inviting students to a Muslim party at the mosque are you ok with it? Not a party for a milestone like a communion or a batmitvah, but a mosque teenage party like the Christian socials.

When I was in 5th grade sex ed was learning about menstruation for girls and I think the boys learned about erections, not sure what else. A little on how babies are born. A student asked about the birth control pill and the question was answered in a basic way. In 7the grade more about sex and how babies are born. 10th grade we had more information, I don’t remember what exactly. I absolutely think birth control should be discussed in 7th or 8th grade. By 10th grade I think sexual organs should be taught in biology/anatomy class like every other organ system. Digestive, circulatory, lymphatic, nervous, sexual. Kids learn from meiosis, in-utero stages, childhood, to adult. Knowing risk for various sex acts seems ok to me. Sexually transmitted diseases is a real concern! Overall, I think we basically agree here, I probably go a little further than you on some of it.

You want a Christian education mindset. Send your kids to Christian schools.

As far as public school, sometimes I don’t agree with what you would call left teaching, I think those things are up for discussion in communities around America. Some things maybe go too far. Sometimes what you would call left I would call neutral.

I said drawing the crucifixion might be perfectly normal. Not sure why you have a problem with what wrote. The kid had just been bombarded with Christ so he drew what he had been seeing. Logical. Asking the child why he drew it to be sure seems ok to me. Do you have a problem with that?

This howl that the left is out to distort the teaching of history neglects the more than ample evidence that those making such charges are themselves the beneficiaries of distorted and biased history. Such pundits never bother to consider that their knowledge for example of American history is free from any comment or interpretation on the matter from those conveniently eliminated or marginalized in the telling. It is for example no accident that you will never see an American history textbook authorized by the Sioux or Cherokee or find a history of slavery in this country based on the observations from ACTUAL slaves. The howls that any attempt to bring up such matters is leftist indoctrination should be viewed with the suspicion it deserves. Slavery in particular is the paradigm example of how history has been systemically distorted and downplayed so successfully that fully 100 years after the Civil War segregation remained as definitive in this country as the stars and stripes. Indeed, so unwilling are we here to face up to the actual significance of slavery in our history that we are STILL bewildered that people STILL roam our streets protesting its effects. It is this exact deficit in a knowledge of history that permits jumped up ill educated pundits to pontificate here claiming BLM a movement of evil subversives.

I want to add that there are many Christians on the “left.” My comment about Christian school I should maybe take back.

@JLeslie If I am offending you, I apologize. I thought I answered the question about the Quran v. bible. I think if kids want to take their religious books to school, more power to them. But as you said, don’t discriminate against one and not the other. And actually, don’t discriminate and both. Bringing a book to school to read in your spare time is fine. Don’t let it interfere with class…but beyond that? Nope. If a child talks to another about something he learned concerning religion between breaks or at lunch, that is okay. If the second child doesn’t want to hear about it, he can just say so. Again…no big deal. If the first child begins forcing it on others…continues to push after being told it isn’t of interest…that’s disruptive and is an issue. This has nothing to do with Christian schools or anything else like that. It has to do with the First Amendment. And again…I don’t care if it is Christianity, Muslim, Buddhist, or even satanism.
As for the drawing of Jesus on the Cross, you might ask “who’s that?”. If he says Jesus, then really there is nothing else to worry about from a school perspective. If he says “Miss Jenner, my math teacher” then we have another issue. Again…I don’t have a problem with teachers or administrators questioning things like that. I do have a big problem with trying to squelch ideas a child might have concerning religion. The school wants a separation of church and state, then they need to keep out of the church end of things.

@stanleybmanly I don’t know what school you went to, but at the school I attended, we learned a lot of the negatives about our country. And questions were encouraged. But it wasn’t presented as the most important factor in this nation’s history which is what the left wants to do. But here’s the part about your comment I just don’t get. You want to rant about people negating all the segregation since the Civil War. Yet I have, many times, questioned that on these pages alone. We also learned all about that. But in all those discussions, it was always the Democrats that were trying to suppress the blacks. Am I wrong? Yet when we talk about getting a clear picture of our history, untainted by things being glossed over, and this is brought up, you immediately try defending the Dems. We have had this same discussion on threads about the removal of statues and renaming buildings and streets and other things because they were named for people that at one time owned slaves and that is just horrible. At least that seems to be your stance. Yet when I point out that it is the Dems that were the key players throughout our history that pushed all those horrible things, you suddenly try defending them and deflecting again. Why is that? Are you afraid that the youth of today might find out how horrible your party is? I mean your presidential candidate as recently as 1977 was STILL fighting against integration. He didn’t want schools segregated because he was afraid blacks would ruin the school and he didn’t want his kids going to a “racial jungle”. But we don’t want to talk about his racism, right?

You just will not learn. To this day, and no matter how often I must remind you, you still persist in declaring me a Democrat. The truth is that history is a useless waste of time for you as is any other aspect of education. Why do you bother to demonstrate an ability to read or write if you are going to utilize those abilities merely to demonstrate that you are incapable of distinguishing the Democratic party of 1860 from that of Obama, or that the party of Lincoln is equivalent to the aberration of the Trump clan? I mean truthfully, what is the point of discussing history if you are convinced that this is still 1860? And I certainly am taken aback at the idea of a Trump supporter lecturing ANYONE on the fear that youth might “discover” the “horrors” of Democrats. You can conjure up all the supposed racism you want on the part of Biden or Obama himself for all that it matters. It only serves to emphasize your shared proclivity with the fool in distorting the truth. In fact, you can throw your life away pimping for the jackass as much as you choose. You only serve to cement my case.

@stanleybmanly Yes, I know. Like so many lefties on these pages, you claim to NOT be a Democrat and claim you find them repulsive or some such nonsense. But you NEVER have a bad word to say about them, no matter how sleazy they get. And I gave you a perfect example of how the Democratic Party of 1860 is very much like today’s Democrats. The only difference I can see is they dropped the hammer and anvil tactics. They still hate blacks and latinos other than for the votes they can get from them. And even now you are defending them. Not a bad word to say about them. Yep…you’re a Democrat.

@seawulf575 I just have a hard time believing if the school is 70% Muslim children and most teachers are Muslim that most Christians parents in that school are ok with many of the Muslim students bringing their Quran and talking about their religion. It’s much easier to not have religion in the school at all. It doesn’t mean a kid can’t mention it’s Ramadan and can’t come out and play after school, or some mention of his family getting together for a holiday, but apart from that isn’t the easiest way to protect religion is to make school secular? Keep your religion at home.

If the goal of that Christian child is to recruit, or to include some children and exclude others, it is a problem. Sure, the Christian kid might say “anyone can join no one is forced” but really we know what is going on.

My school no one was talking about religion. We talked about holidays, but there was no undertone of any type that a child was trying to spread the word or leave other children out. I think we know when that’s happening.

Were you ok with the Muslim child inviting classmates to the teen social at the mosque? It’s just a party.

@seawulf575 Hammer & anvil? It is not so much that I defend the Democrats rather than the fact that I reject your insistence on distorting the facts. Your persistence on labeling anyone left of Goebbels a Democrat is more than annoying. It marks you clearly as a man who doesn’t know what the fk he’s talking about. Not only can you not distinguish Marx from a democrat, you don’t know the difference between an anvil and a sickle. What on the earth is to be gained by discussing ANYTHING with you?

A head ache?