Why are some countries doing so well, and others can't get Covid19 under control?

Places like South Korea are experienced with waring masks and obeying authority.

Some countries getting citizens to obey authority is like herding cats.

There are certain aspects to this disease that are pretty much undeniable. The first is that a pandemic is a NATIONAL emergency, every bit as significant as a war. Only a fool would propose that individual states muster their private armies to fight a war. The next fact that is crucial is that those countries with national and UNIVERSAL healthcare are ALWAYS in a better position to withstand ANY national health emergency for EXACTLY the same reason.

Other countries masked up immediately and quarantined.

Here an example. A friend of mine traveled from Montana to Florida by plane. She lives in Florida. She wrote on her Facebook she was back and going to quarantine for 14 days to protect the people who live in her community. I asked her if she needed anything from the supermarket and she said no, that she had ordered curbside pick-up at Walmart two days before so she would have groceries when she arrived home. Seems like she was trying to be very careful.

Later that day I saw her post that she had a great meal at the PF Chang’s in Orlando! So, after she landed, she drove over to PF Chang’s to meet with some friends and eat, and then drive home.

In other countries you have to quarantine when you travel far for real. Not only did she not go directly home, but she was at a table, maskless, having lunch with other people.

Yeah I get that @JLeslie good intentions I will quarantine but first I will stop for lunch at a restaurant .
Trump hasn’t helped the US one tiny bit when it comes to this pandemic,first it’s nothing, then it’s played down he didn’t want the public to panic, yeah he didn’t want the stock market to panic ,Trump cares nothing about human life, and his actions have made others not take this serious as well thus the death toll sky rocketing.
Bad mouthing scientists saying he knows and don’t listen to them,OMG how many people have to die before your country wakes up?

@SQUEEKY2 If tomorrow Trump’s groupies decided masks were a good idea he would be right on board talking it up. Makes him a bad leader.

If we shut down the messaging from the alt-right and libertarians who are promoting bad behavior that would help.

It’s an interesting question. Some countries are doing great. Sweden for example really took no extraordinary precautions and they are pretty much at a stable point. Italy took a huge toll right out of the gate but are now sitting much prettier. GB on the other hand is struggling, as is the USA. With GB having issues, I guess that pokes a huge hole in @stanleybmanly‘s ideas. I said in the beginning of this that we were on a spectrum with “do nothing” at one end and “isolate everyone, no exceptions, until it passes” at the other. Any actions that aren’t at the extreme “isolate everyone” end of the specturm, are eventually going to lead to the “do nothing” impacts…it’ll just take longer to get there.

@seawulf575 Sweden shut down large venues like sports and concerts. They would NEVER be ok with crowded rallies like what you see at Trump rallies. They asked citizens to distance, and they do. They lost a lot of older citizens in the beginning, which they regret. The death toll there is much higher than neighboring Nordic countries. Why use that country as the example of what to do when Taiwan is a much better choice.

Taiwan, New Zealand, and Iceland.
Are doing amazing.

@seawulf575 While you’re poking holes, I might remind you of the glaring flaw in your view of the “spectrum”. The outcome is not the same regarding the numbers of victims in a longer period of time UNLESS the fool is lying (as usual) about the near term arrival of a vaccine. How about that? And I have distinct memories of your predictions back in March echoing those of our fool.

@JLeslie Yes, there are differences between Sweden and the US and mostly by the attitudes of the populace. I think you can sum it up in one simple statement: They trust their government. I chose Sweden for a couple reasons. First, it is probably the most populated of the Nordic countries. Population density has a lot to do with how it spreads or doesn’t. Secondly, the question is about why some countries are doing so well and others aren’t, not which countries did the best. Sweden took almost the exact opposite approach to the virus from the US and they are pretty much past the worst of it.

@stanleybmanly your statement was about universal healthcare being the key. Which of those socialized medicine countries have the vaccine today? GB has universal healthcare and is doing almost as badly as the US. So the contradiction is glaring.

@seawulf575 I’d agree the Swedes have more trust in their government, but we have the ENTIRE WORLD to observe regarding controlling covid, so any Americans who are listening to masks make you sick and covid doesn’t exist, well, there really is no excuse for them. I know Q came up with a reasoning for that, they say it’s a few people controlling the world, something about Soros, blah blah.

Sweden only has 10 million people, they constantly question the choices they made. I really think Republicans became more aware of Sweden first (rather than Taiwan) and that’s why they cling to the Swedish example rather than looking at Taiwan. Sweden fits the far right’s narrative to support Trump. Notice I am not blaming Trump here, I am blaming messaging from libertarian and alt-right groups. They will not change course once they lay down their plan even if they are wrong. They won’t go to a mask example in the world at this point. Taiwan is all about masks.

Note that Sweden tends to let older people die without trying to save them. Part of the reason the hospitals didn’t get overwhelmed probably has something to do with that attitude. You know how the religious right is against euthanasia and turning off Terry Shaivo’s life support and that ridiculous fake freak out about death panels? Sweden‘s health system would be completely opposite in philosophy. Passive euthanasia is legal and with covid most doctors used palliative care rather than treatment for older patients.

Republicans have to hate China to like Trump, so we can’t hold China as an example, but China did a hard lockdown of one city, the rest of the country functioning, and now the country is basically free from covid, no masks.

South Korea couldn’t be used initially as an example because we didn’t have test kits in the beginning and to decide Trump was doing great you couldn’t easily use SK, Americans are easily nervous about tracing. My governor initially wanted to use SK’s method, but it fell apart at the tracing level a little, and not enough masks.

Taiwan hates China, it business and schools stayed open, its densely populated. 7 deaths. What is wrong with the Taiwan example? Why not try it? We already kind of are trying it. The majority of Americans seem willing to wear a mask indoors.The difference is probably the size of our country, travel across the country, and Taiwan used quarantine very effectively with monitoring and support to help people in quarantine.

Now, Rand Paul is making more excuses not to use Taiwan as an example, like they have immunity, to help his libertarian and Republican supporters further put their heels in. There have been studies done that they don’t have immunity from prior coronavirus infection of other strains. I wish the studies had shown they did, I was hoping for information to help us narrow down who in America might have some sort of cross immunity. Paul pushes the Sweden example either Libertarian followers or following them, I’m not sure which.

What’s wrong with trying the Taiwan example again? Businesses and schools open, wear a mask indoors or if you can’t distance even outdoors. Wash your hands. Quarantine if exposed.

@seawulf575 Unfortunately GB is also saddled with its own version of our fool. But even without a vaccine, EVERYONE is covered. If you cannot understand why that is a better situation than our own, there’s no hope for you.

In some places people are spread out and in some places they’re packed in like sardines. Virus will spread more easily when everyone is close together. (But you knew that…)